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Poll: which ladder maps should be removed next patch?blistering sands (616) 33% steppes of war (369) 20% jungle basin (352) 19% delta quadrant (253) 14% scrap station (122) 7% lost temple (60) 3% shakuras plateau (49) 3% metalopolis (21) 1% xel naga caverns (16) 1% 1858 total votes Your vote: which ladder maps should be removed next patch? (Vote): blistering sands (Vote): jungle basin (Vote): scrap station (Vote): lost temple (Vote): xel naga caverns (Vote): steppes of war (Vote): shakuras plateau (Vote): metalopolis (Vote): delta quadrant
what are the worst maps in the current map pool and why?
interesting concepts for new ladder maps are welcome. somebody in a diff thread suggested 3 starting spot maps for 1on1, which sounded like an interesting concept
also, id like to add that shakuras plateau is just fucking ugly terrain-wise. its so ugly in fact that i dont care if tastosis think its the best map, i still voted it down :o
also, what do you think are the limits of creativity map-wise before balance gets affected negatively? would it be possible to change the # of mineral patches a little bit, or would that make some matchups really imba? are island maps really not an option any more? how about maps that require you to break rocks in order to reach your opponent?
edit: im glad to see that im not the only one who thinks that metalopolis and xnc are awesome. im surprised about how few ppl hate scrap station tho, even tho it is so different from everything else
On November 15 2010 17:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote:hmmm this poll should be multiple choice, or have a multiple choice one below it even a poll for each map or something ugh voted dq before remembering scrap station was there @ OP; edit these in if you want one per map Poll: Remove Blistering Sands?Yes (256) 54% No (216) 46% 472 total votes Your vote: Remove Blistering Sands? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Steppes of WarYes (265) 60% No (177) 40% 442 total votes Your vote: Remove Steppes of War (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Jungle BasinYes (231) 56% No (183) 44% 414 total votes Your vote: Remove Jungle Basin (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Delta QuadrantYes (250) 62% No (155) 38% 405 total votes Your vote: Remove Delta Quadrant (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Scrap Station?No (270) 67% Yes (132) 33% 402 total votes Your vote: Remove Scrap Station? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Lost Temple?No (283) 73% Yes (107) 27% 390 total votes Your vote: Remove Lost Temple? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Shakuras Plateau?No (316) 85% Yes (54) 15% 370 total votes Your vote: Remove Shakuras Plateau? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Metalopolis?No (359) 97% Yes (11) 3% 370 total votes Your vote: Remove Metalopolis? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Xelnaga Caverns?No (350) 93% Yes (28) 7% 378 total votes Your vote: Remove Xelnaga Caverns? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
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Steppes of War gets my vote, although I'm a Zerg player, so theres that.
Granted it's nice to have a close map every once and a while just to change it up a bit.
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How about we stop removing and start adding, eh? I already miss Desert Oasis, despite hating it.
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Blistering Sands
Small map with backdoor rocks is fail
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I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map.
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Do you guys not want Steppes of War because it is small? Is it actually broken that you have to remove it?
My vote is for Shakuras Plateau. Any 4 player map should have people spawning in random locations for 1v1. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that, from the start, you know that your opponent is in 1 of 2 locations. It's a 2v2 map. Take it away.
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I don't dislike any of these maps
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On November 15 2010 07:43 fabiano wrote: I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map.
Wait...what's wrong with DQ, it allows for the greatest variety of strategies. You can have short distance, long distance, you can expand, you can drop...
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Jungle Basin is just a fail of a map. I'd like to see that go even more than Scrap Station.
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On November 15 2010 07:41 ThorIsHere wrote: Blistering Sands
Small map with backdoor rocks is fail
Jungle Basin has backdoor rocks too.
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Why can't I vote for 8-9 of them?
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im thinking of voting for xel'naga caverns just cause it looks lonely with zero votes
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On November 15 2010 07:44 Karliath wrote: Do you guys not want Steppes of War because it is small? Is it actually broken that you have to remove it?
My vote is for Shakuras Plateau. Any 4 player map should have people spawning in random locations for 1v1. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that, from the start, you know that your opponent is in 1 of 2 locations. It's a 2v2 map. Take it away.
Considering a siege tank can basically shoot from a terrans natural to your natural >_>
Whoever can take control of the middle first usually wins, and its basically designed for 6 minute rush games.
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I say Delta Quadrant, Steppes of War, and Jungle Basin.
Delta and Steppes automatically give the advantage to a race that is not Zerg in any ZvX matchup, and Jungle basin is just too hard to take a third for any race, plus P can warp-in your base from outside of it.
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You should have an additional poll asking for race so we can differentiate the bias o_O
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On November 15 2010 07:45 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:43 fabiano wrote: I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map. Wait...what's wrong with DQ, it allows for the greatest variety of strategies. You can have short distance, long distance, you can expand, you can drop...
The rush distances from expo to expo is RIDICULOUSLY short. Most people dislike this.
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as much as i'd love a totally new map pool, i want sands gone. sure ive vetoed it, but still....
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How does Jungle Basin not have the most votes? There are like 3 expos on the map total, rush distance is retarded, and every game I've played on this map versus Zerg I am against a 6/7 pool
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On November 15 2010 07:44 Karliath wrote: My vote is for Shakuras Plateau. Any 4 player map should have people spawning in random locations for 1v1. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that, from the start, you know that your opponent is in 1 of 2 locations. It's a 2v2 map. Take it away.
What a completely arbitrary and pointless reason to dislike a map. Guess they should remove all 3 player maps from BW, right?
Meanwhile there are actually imbalanced maps like Steppes and Blistering.
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Jungle basin is pretty short distance like steppes, not a lot of open space like steppes, except it ALSO has a main expansion protected by rocks, which makes it more protected than blistering sands.
How people could vote for blistering sands or steppes of war instead of jungle basin is beyond me.
I think jungle basin should be the one to go. Zerg has hell of a time in the early game or the late game. Their 2nd expansion is difficult to hold and the opponent gets a easy early expansion and/or can do early harass.
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On November 15 2010 07:44 Karliath wrote: Do you guys not want Steppes of War because it is small? Is it actually broken that you have to remove it?
My vote is for Shakuras Plateau. Any 4 player map should have people spawning in random locations for 1v1. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that, from the start, you know that your opponent is in 1 of 2 locations. It's a 2v2 map. Take it away.
what? i wasnt aware of starting positions on that map not being random (i voted it down too as i said), is this true? how do starting positions work on this map?
On November 15 2010 07:46 Chimpalimp wrote: Why can't I vote for 8-9 of them?
because TL.net polls dont allow for that
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On November 15 2010 07:45 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:43 fabiano wrote: I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map. Wait...what's wrong with DQ, it allows for the greatest variety of strategies. You can have short distance, long distance, you can expand, you can drop...
The short distances are VERY short and P and T can take there backdoor expo easily while Z has to take the vulnerable expo. It is a HORRIBLE map for zerg
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Personally i dont like to play at steppes of way, because i am a zerg user. But i like to have a big mix of map so taking it off i wouldnt like. All these maps bring some differences so its very hard to pick one. So i have to say bring in more instead
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To be honest I don't really like to play on small maps, so I feel uneasy playing on steppes, desert, jungle. I also dislike some 4 player maps like Lost temple or Metalopolis, don't get me wrong these are great maps when you spawn cross positions; but when you spawn close positions, you can definitely witness the flaws of these maps.
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blistering is the obvious first then delta quadrant, from a zerg pov >:[
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Blistering sands is a great map. It isn't that small of a map, and it is the only map where all the turtles can't simply guard a single choke. Ya big babies, Zerg can't wall off either choke.
Steppes of war is my vote, mainly because I think they'll remove Terran-Quadrant anyway.
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On November 15 2010 07:48 OmgIRok wrote: How does Jungle Basin not have the most votes? There are like 3 expos on the map total, rush distance is retarded, and every game I've played on this map versus Zerg I am against a 6/7 pool
im not sure wtf you are talking about, the rush distance on jungle basin is rather long actually
imho the map really favors toss in pvz, and pvt is also easier than on most other maps for toss. other matchups i cant really comment although id imagine the map to be terrible for zerg in any matchup
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On November 15 2010 07:54 raph wrote: blistering is the obvious first then delta quadrant, from a zerg pov >:[
Blistering sands is an excellent Zerg map
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Where is the vote for none?
You can down vote maps for a reason, if you don't like a map you don't have to play it. Personally I hope more maps get added in and Desert Oasis gets re-added as that map is actually really good for players not too stupid to think of different ways to play it.
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Where's the option for all of them?
We've been playing the same maps for 9 months, even if they WEREN'T absolute shit, it's time for a change.
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does anyone know where to find a chart listing the rush distances on all ladder maps in seconds? that would be handy
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I get the impression that everyone here would like to see games where no one engages for the first hour and a half.
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Jungle Basin. Blistering sands is kind of annoying but hey, it's aesthetically pleasing to my eyes. I personally enjoy steppes of war even with the obvious tendency to rush, it's nice to such a short distance map in the pool.
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Jungle Basin and Steppes are the only maps I consider vetoing, so those i guess. If i just had to choose one i'd definitely pick Jungle Basin, that map is just stupid.
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On November 15 2010 07:45 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:43 fabiano wrote: I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map. Wait...what's wrong with DQ, it allows for the greatest variety of strategies. You can have short distance, long distance, you can expand, you can drop...
Dropped tanks can wail away at BOTH naturals, and it kinda sucks for Zerg.
On November 15 2010 07:50 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:44 Karliath wrote: Do you guys not want Steppes of War because it is small? Is it actually broken that you have to remove it?
My vote is for Shakuras Plateau. Any 4 player map should have people spawning in random locations for 1v1. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that, from the start, you know that your opponent is in 1 of 2 locations. It's a 2v2 map. Take it away. what? i wasnt aware of starting positions on that map not being random (i voted it down too as i said), is this true? how do starting positions work on this map?
You can't spawn directly above or below your opponent. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Shakuras_Plateau
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On November 15 2010 08:00 diesirae wrote: I get the impression that everyone here would like to see games where no one engages for the first hour and a half. Believe it or not, some people find macro games interesting.
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Blistering sands because every game turns into huge T1/T1.5 fights over the stupid rocks.
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WHERES THE NONE OPTION!?!??!?!
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steppes. while i think that basin and DQ put zerg at a strong disadvantage, they're not even close to steppes in terms of how bad they are for zerg. the rush distance, as everyone and their cousin knows, is so short, that you can't safely choose between making drones and making lings, because if he moves out, you can't have an army ready in time. i end up alternating between lings and drones for every larva spawn and throwing down unnecessary spine crawlers because i need to be safe just in case he moves out.
it's so frustrating that a terran or protoss can put me at an economic disadvantage just because of the map. in the past few days i've just been 7pooling and roach rushing on that map. i can't stand it anymore. the higher rated i get, the worse that map becomes.
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Crap station needs to go imo.
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On November 15 2010 07:44 Karliath wrote: Do you guys not want Steppes of War because it is small? Is it actually broken that you have to remove it?
My vote is for Shakuras Plateau. Any 4 player map should have people spawning in random locations for 1v1. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that, from the start, you know that your opponent is in 1 of 2 locations. It's a 2v2 map. Take it away. It's effectively a 3 player map. 3 player maps were quite common in BW without any issues, so I don't see a real need to remove it on that basis alone.
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Your enemy can't spawn where your ally would normally be on the map (it's still got 2v2 rules) on Shakuras
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They should implement the Shakuras spawn style on metalopolis and lost temple. Imagine how awful Shakuras would be if you could have those close spawns. I'm guessing Karliath is some random P who 4gated to diamond.
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On November 15 2010 08:06 Luckbox wrote: They should implement the Shakuras spawn style on metalopolis and lost temple. Imagine how awful Shakuras would be if you could have those close spawns. I'm guessing Karliath is some random P who 4gated to diamond.
That is a good idea. Close positions metalopolis is like steppes. It's a pretty bad map if it's close positions.
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On November 15 2010 08:05 Tump wrote: Your enemy can't spawn where your ally would normally be on the map (it's still got 2v2 rules) on Shakuras
that actually improves the map a lot, i wasnt aware of this
although i dont think it would be cool to add this feature to LT and metalopolis, that would just take away from the variance of these maps, close spots on neither of those are necessarily imba
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On November 15 2010 07:50 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:45 sqrt wrote:On November 15 2010 07:43 fabiano wrote: I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map. Wait...what's wrong with DQ, it allows for the greatest variety of strategies. You can have short distance, long distance, you can expand, you can drop... The short distances are VERY short and P and T can take there backdoor expo easily while Z has to take the vulnerable expo. It is a HORRIBLE map for zerg
DQ lets zerg get free map control All the different routes and shit are retarded as fuck, this map is so good for zerg like wow they will win every fucking battle flanking the shit out of your army
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Blistering sands needs the back rocks moved closer to the front choke. Jungle basin needs to be removed all together.
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both steppes and blistering but the rocks in the backs = blistering's got to go :p
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Scrap station when i face zerg.
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Really? People hate Blistering Sands the most?
How about Lost Temple.. it's blatantly imbalanced towards Terran.
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Delta Quadrant. Please. So, so bad.
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I hate DQ more than I do Steppes as a Zerg.
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Delta Quadrant is a broken god damn map and I do not understand why it isn't at the top of the votes. Obviously enough protoss aren't being cliff abused on it yet. Pick up your game terrans. Far worse than Kulas, which was horrid.
Shakuras gets votes? Seriously? The best map in the pool currently?
Steppes is great to have in the map pool as the blood-bath of SC2. As Zerg, I still want it in. I believe a decent style for it will be evolved - and it has the best ZvZ of any map.
A more useful vote would be for which map people LIKE the best. Less idiot 4-gaters voting down good maps then.
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Although i am a zerg player, i really mis desert oasis and kulas ravine. Those maps where just to awesome cause you just needed to have some different builds.
I really wouldn’t like again to lose a map where the "standard" things are different like blistering sand.
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On November 15 2010 08:13 OmgIRok wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:50 happyness wrote:On November 15 2010 07:45 sqrt wrote:On November 15 2010 07:43 fabiano wrote: I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map. Wait...what's wrong with DQ, it allows for the greatest variety of strategies. You can have short distance, long distance, you can expand, you can drop... The short distances are VERY short and P and T can take there backdoor expo easily while Z has to take the vulnerable expo. It is a HORRIBLE map for zerg DQ lets zerg get free map control All the different routes and shit are retarded as fuck, this map is so good for zerg like wow they will win every fucking battle flanking the shit out of your army Holy shit you are a stupid, stupid man.
Tiny push distances from all spawns. Natural you need armored to remove rocks from. Gold base with rocks. Cliff at your natural. Third siegable from all flanks. Third wide open, and to the side of ramp. Gold siegable from enemy third. Every map path contains tiny choke points.
Clearly, a zerg favoured map.
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Its kind of funny. I want to vote for Blistering Sands but when I go through sc2gears, that's by far my best map. =D
49 games, 43 wins. woot woot!
Therefore, out of this list I pick Jungle Basin. It's a really really race-imbalanced map, with Zerg having an incredibly difficult time as soon as they need to take a third base. Works great for Protoss, as the protected natural and small ramp lets them 1 gate expand to their hearts content. Meh map for Terran, I don't see anything particularly good or bad for that race.
I play Terran with a little Zerg on the side.
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Steppes of war. That map is just too close to be fun (says a cheese-hating random).
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Zerg is brutal on jungle. I also hate playing terran on blister so idno.
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Blistering Sands is terrible. I'm pretty sure the distance within your main from your backdoor to your ramp is longer than the outside distance between them. If your opponent bounces back and forth you can't keep up. And if you're T and you've gone mech god help you. Sure you probably have your natural with that build, but you're so incredibly slow and immobile that you wanna rip your hair out.
Jungle Basin isn't as bad since its a longer outside path between ramp and backdoor, but the proxy pylon spot needs to go.
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In order of awful:
Delta Quadrant Steppes of War Jungle Basin Blistering Sands Xel Naga Caverns -------------- Above this line are maps that are terrible Lost Temple -------------- Below this line are maps that give great games Metalopolis Scrap Station Shakuras Plateau
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*insert map which is worst for my race*
At least blistering sands is universally disliked. Scrap station is terrible vs zerg, jungle basin terrible vs protoss, etc.
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All of them. Blizzard needs to make better maps.
They have 11 years of growth and development for how mapmaking should be done with their game, and when the sequel comes out, we seriously have to go back to the stone age with maps? Come on now.
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yea blistering sands being at the top is a fair choice
Ideally though, I'd like to see every map replaced except 1 or 2 and have an entirely new map pool (excluding 1 or 2)
please stop making this game as stagnant as wc3 in terms of maps blizzard =(
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I don't have any problem with the current maps, expect maybe for the outrageously small Steppes of war. But I do miss Desert Oasis a little, and find it very odd that they removed it a few days after adding destructible rocks o_0
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I play Z, I refuse to play Delta Quadrant. Too difficult, at least for my play style.
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Delta Quadrant. I just really dislike that map :\
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I love the ENVIRONMENT of Jungle Basin, but not the set-up. I am tired of the desert and space maps. I want a damn forest with water in it and shit, that looks awesome.
Edit: I hate Blistering Sands with a passion. Dumbest map ever.
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Delta Quadrant and Jungle Basin needs to go.
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I choose scrap station. Dont like the whole idea of having to take a loop around the bottom to get to the enemies base.
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steppes of war imo the most boring, one dimensional map at the moment
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blistering sands, delta quadrant
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On November 15 2010 07:41 ThorIsHere wrote: Blistering Sands
Small map with backdoor rocks is fail day9 likes small backdoors though.
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I picked Shakura's Plateau due to it favoring zerg so heavily. I'd also like to see Blistering Sands and Delta Quadrant go as well. I dislike the rocks on Sands and DQ is has positional advantages and favors terran a lot.
Not sure why there is so much hate for Jungle Basin. Its my favorite map. I guess I like 2 basing and no one else does =/
PS. I'm a Terran Player.
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United States527 Posts
i play zerg and i would hate for delta quadrant to go,
anyway, i would love to see xel naga or steppes of war gone. just my playstyle
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the worst maps are:
-delta quadrant - every base except the starting positions have ledges that can be tanked. short rush distance if starting positions are adjacent.
-steppes of war - the map is too small, can't flank effectively
-jungle basin - no close 3rd, no open space to flank effectively
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being a protoss player I want to cuddle jungle basin to my heart. don't take away my baby you fiends!!!!
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Jungle Basin is the new Incineration Zone
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blistering sands, jungle basin. Scrap station is a close third, but tbh I've always been all for the iccup maps. There are so many non-blizz mapmakers around and it's obvious that some of them will be producing much better maps, just because the GSL is an official blizzard tournament and they have to use their maps it doesn't mean that other tournaments should.
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the only one that could probably go would be blistering sands since getting a third is just insane. the backdoor rocks makes the map unique though.
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On November 15 2010 07:46 Chimpalimp wrote: Why can't I vote for 8-9 of them? I agree. There are so many bad maps. They should just rego
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don't remove any of them imo, unless one of similar characteristics is added.
Having to worry about the map kind is awesome, even if it is imbalanced to certain race~
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On November 15 2010 11:02 r33k wrote: There are so many non-blizz mapmakers around and it's obvious that some of them will be producing much better maps, just because the GSL is an official blizzard tournament and they have to use their maps it doesn't mean that other tournaments should.
No, they don't. It will take some time for mapmakers to make their waya into tournaments. I wonder though, why doesn't Blizz just hold a contest every 4 months for melee player maps and just use them for ladder.
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On November 15 2010 11:13 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 11:02 r33k wrote: There are so many non-blizz mapmakers around and it's obvious that some of them will be producing much better maps, just because the GSL is an official blizzard tournament and they have to use their maps it doesn't mean that other tournaments should. No, they don't. It will take some time for mapmakers to make their waya into tournaments. I wonder though, why doesn't Blizz just hold a contest every 4 months for melee player maps and just use them for ladder. yeah i thought they were going to do that, hopefully they will.
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I want desert oasis back
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BS is bs... think about it.
Edit: or exchange it for Desert Oasis.
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TBH, i think only the last 3 maps should stay in the pool. Perhaps add a map like match point. or err. something big. Large. Giant. But not anything thats completely new.
Please, blizzard, stop with the "if you take these two expos, then your right next to each other and need to fight. BS. Give us some space to fight. BAH!
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On November 15 2010 07:44 Karliath wrote: My vote is for Shakuras Plateau. Any 4 player map should have people spawning in random locations for 1v1. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that, from the start, you know that your opponent is in 1 of 2 locations. It's a 2v2 map. Take it away. Wow, I fail. I've been scouting the nearest location first everytime in Shakuras Plateau. I'm so glad I came into this thread.
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I hate playing on DQ, Blistering Sands and Steppes of War.
As a zerg player you have to be at least +1500 points ahead of your opponent to have a fair chance on these maps.
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I hate Blistering Sands and CRAP station. Really I'd be fine with the map pool if they were removed, but as it is I just downvote them. I'm Terran, which would explain my hatred of them. Desert Oasis was too unpredictable and although fun it was too annoying in the long, I never want to see it again.
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Blistering Sands is my least favorite in the current pool, because the short-rush-distance backdoor is so far away from the natural ramp. But I think Delta Quadrant has some serious imbalances when players spawn next to each other -- whoever is clockwise gets an easy 3rd instead of having to expand into their opponent or take a farther expo.
Jungle Basin is not a short distance, it's quite long, especially natural to natural.
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Steppes would be a decent map, but it needs to be a little bigger and more balanced.
I have no trouble with Blistering Sands, because it is an interesting mechanic having the rocks. Not all maps need to be like the Brood War maps, The second entrance makes it a lot harder to turtle, which is good in my opinion.
Delta Quadrant could be a good map with a few changes.
Jungle Basin is just a bad map though, period.
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The info about spawns on Shakuras Plateau alone was worth this thread.
I truly despise delta quadrant though. At least in my experience, you can't take a safe early expo because of the rocks for the back natural and the incredibly short distance between front naturals. So you end up doing one base play and usually your opponent does too. At which point somebody usually attacks and you either win or lose without reaching any of the more interesting stuff. Not fun imo.
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I think Jungle Basin is not getting enough hate :D , or ppl didnt realise yet how bad it rly is -Super short distance -Backdoor -Super ugly placed third (wich one is actualy the third lol?) -No open areas -Free expo ?!
It does have everything most hate o.O And Shakuras is not gettin enough love ... huge lovely map ... played ALOT of epic matches on it
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i think all the current maps have their problems and can prolly be replaced with better thought out maps catering not only towards racial balance but towards games of varying lengths. i.e. smaller maps for more aggressive games and medium and larger maps for macro type games.
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Lost Temple must be deleted. Those high cliffs that terrans abuse is an unfair advantage( and a huge advantage at that).
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So much hate for Bilstering Sands?
Is this map considered favored for any race? True the backdoor rocks are pretty damn annoying, but are they that gamebreaking? Is it considered zerg favored?
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Jungle Basin. Easily. #2 would be either DQ, BS, or steppes.
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I like: LT (I'm not even terran, I just usually play nice games in this map), Metalopolis, Xel'naga caverns (best 2 player map by far)
I'm okay with: DQ (debatable though), Shakuras plateau, Steppes, Scrap station
I HATE: Blistering sands, Jungle Basin
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On November 15 2010 07:44 Karliath wrote: Do you guys not want Steppes of War because it is small? Is it actually broken that you have to remove it?
My vote is for Shakuras Plateau. Any 4 player map should have people spawning in random locations for 1v1. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that, from the start, you know that your opponent is in 1 of 2 locations. It's a 2v2 map. Take it away. Why exactly is it mindblowingly ridiculous? I mean, what's the problem with knowing there's 3 spawnpoints on the map instead of 4? "It's mindblowingly ridiculous because its ridiculous" doesn't really work. BW had tons of 3player maps that worked great and Shakuras also works great. I'd even say it would be great to limit the spawn possibilities on Metalopolis so you could never get the "steppes of war positions" (12 vs 10 & 6 vs 3), I hate spawning there as any race because it's just too close and its really really hard to take a 3rd and Metalopolis usually has awesome games when it's not in those positions :p
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I may be crazy but as a zerg player I want Shakuras and Scrap Station removed. I like to play a very controlling style with heavy 2 base then into a heavy 3 base. The rush distances/chokes on those maps are retarded for aggression/control.
I am in love with Jungle basin though. Its great map for a aggressive 2 base zerg because then you can get your third easily and once its up and running you can then just starve the T/P. Xelnaga is also a decent map too starve the T/P off 3 bases+ gold vs 2 base + gold.
All in all I really like mid sized maps like jungle basin/xel naga.
But really get rid of LT. Tank drops are the most retarded thing to ever exist.
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Delta Quadrant is a terrible map. It's not as bad as Kulas but it's close.
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As a terran player, I really hate jungle basin, TvP makes me want to cry. Scrap station is kind of annoying, but i guess its not as Zbiased as LT is for terran.
Steppes of war can be just as scary for terran thanks to roach rushes so its not like its just scary for zerg. shakuras i actually enjoy. Xel Naga, DQ rock.
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I can make myself live with all but jungle basin. I don't like down voting maps, but come on
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Jungle Basin got my Z vote. A pretty much free expansion for all races, and then almost no viable 3rd? No thank you
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On November 15 2010 07:45 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:43 fabiano wrote: I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map. Wait...what's wrong with DQ, it allows for the greatest variety of strategies. You can have short distance, long distance, you can expand, you can drop...
Yeah you can do all those things, but only if you play terran ....
My vote goes to remove DQ
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delta quadrant, really shitfuck map.
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I wanted to vote for all of them except metalopolis
blizzard seriously needs to get out of their "gimmick" mindframe. almost all of the maps are designed for one type of strategy that's better than all others. like, desert oasis and scrap station are for air rushes, steppes is for ground rushes, destructable rocks is for cheese or lots of pressure, lost temple is for ledge drops, etc. it just makes all the games predictable and shallow, they need to make their future maps viable for all the above strategies while not promoting one over all others.
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I have never, EVER seen mech drops on LT be completely 100% countered. Even when they're deterred, it's only after massive damage to the Zerg. It's very obviously a hugely imba map imo.
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I don't think any map should be removed. They're all fun maps with their own personality.
I didn't vote, but my least favorite map is Jungle Basin. It's so hard to hold a third unless you're winning. I feel like this map makes my games one sided past the 10 minute mark.
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i'd like to see Desert Oasis back. Really enjoyed the map, especially now there's the destructible rocks.
it's a faily 'neutral' map and cant be said to favour any particular race which in my book, is a pretty decent map.
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On November 15 2010 13:46 Barrin wrote: They're all fine IMO. I find it disappointing that so many people actually think they truly understand the matter at hand. It is also fairly disappointing that you didn't give an option in your poll to say 'remove none of them'.
Well if, even at gold level play, I find that I simply cannot win on Delta Quadrant against an otherwise evenly matched player, why wouldn't I campaign to have the dire map removed?
"Balance" in this sense means the ease of executing powerful strategies vs executing their counter. A large number of these maps make executing powerful strategies really easy while making their counter almost impossible to do by comparison.
That is what imbalance is. It's not saying "we can't defend tank drops on LT", it's saying "defending tank drops on LT is far more difficult than dropping the tank, even if I know that it's coming".
The first time I played DQ, I spawned adjacent to my terran opponent (this is before 1.1.2), where my natural was almost impossible to defend. I then got angry when I had been fighting for my life to defend my expo while he had blown up the rocks and gotten a free expo behind his main wall. I almost ragequit the game when I realised how utterly dire the new map was. My feeling was that Blizzard would put in better maps as the game progressed, not worse ones.
It took one game to see how imbalanced that map was. All we are asking is that all three matchups be tested on each new map to make sure that the maps are fair to all players.
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Its still too early to make conclusions on which maps are good and which are bad. As a zerg I dislike DQ but that doesnt mean it should be removed or is unfair. You just have to take a different approach to your play style on that map.
My vote goes to Blizzard. I think every map has a lot of nice -and interesting features except of Metalopolis.
The rocks on BS are unique and that usually leads to a lot of early action and intense games.
Scrap station is also very unique. As a zerg this map is, by far, where overlord positioning matters the most, followed by LT. This map really encourage creative play unlike Metaopolis that is the definition of a standard map. I dont think there should be more than 1 standard map in pool.
Steppes is small but thats not reason enough to claim that its bad.
I love having rocks, cliffs and all that in the maps but I think Blizzard overdid it with Kulas and was right to remove it from the pool. If you saw Nazgul vs Idra in MLG you know what I mean. However I dont think they have overdone it with LT or DQ,,,,not yet at least.
I really like Shakuras and I think Jungle basin has a lot of potential for different games and play.
Xel naga is okay. Not great but the backdoor road is a nice feature.
Sry but to me this is just another qq thread.
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I would like to see a whole new map pool when the ladder seasons ends.
But I doubt that will happen as WC3 almost exclusively used the same maps since its release.
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I think they're all really solid maps and I enjoy playing on all of them, but Delta Quadrant seems a little bit unfair when one players natural is right next to the other players main but its not the same vice versa. For that, DQ gets my vote.
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On November 15 2010 07:45 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:43 fabiano wrote: I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map. Wait...what's wrong with DQ, it allows for the greatest variety of strategies. You can have short distance, long distance, you can expand, you can drop... For zerg there is no expand safely
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Blizzard should take note of how this poll shows the most hated maps involve back doors and short rush distances.
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Jungle Basin and Blistering Sands.
Jungle Basin would be my first choice to go just because not only are there backdoor rocks but there is a freaking easy nat on the side. It makes playing against a defensive opponent even harder.
Blistering Sands, I just took it off my list and never play it anymore. I've never had any good memories on this map.
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Blistering sands because it looks ugly. I'm also a sucker for big maps so steppes of war isn't exactly my favourite, i like jungle basin though
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Steppes and blistering are terrible. Especially the former one is so small and boring... I'd also like to see scrap station removed, not because it's that bad, but simply because I dislike it.
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I don't see why blistering sands is hated so much. I find it fine when I play both terran and zerg. Do people that not like it play toss?
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People always hate maps where they have to play little differently so I'm not surprised blistering gets so much hate. It isn't the best map around but not sure it deserves so much hate
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so hard to chose between Steppes and Delta, two terrible excuses for maps
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I still don't like Shakuras.
Though I wouldn't really want any of them removed at the moment.
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You should add an option for all of them. SC has used community maps for ten years, and there's no reason to stop that trend.
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As random I'd say that overall the worst map is Delta Quadrant.
Maps like Steppes and Blistering Sands arent good but they do make for different games, which I like as a spectator
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hmmm this poll should be multiple choice, or have a multiple choice one below it even a poll for each map or something ugh voted dq before remembering scrap station was there
@ OP; edit these in if you want one per map
Poll: Remove Blistering Sands?Yes (256) 54% No (216) 46% 472 total votes Your vote: Remove Blistering Sands? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Steppes of WarYes (265) 60% No (177) 40% 442 total votes Your vote: Remove Steppes of War (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Jungle BasinYes (231) 56% No (183) 44% 414 total votes Your vote: Remove Jungle Basin (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Delta QuadrantYes (250) 62% No (155) 38% 405 total votes Your vote: Remove Delta Quadrant (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Scrap Station?No (270) 67% Yes (132) 33% 402 total votes Your vote: Remove Scrap Station? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Lost Temple?No (283) 73% Yes (107) 27% 390 total votes Your vote: Remove Lost Temple? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Shakuras Plateau?No (316) 85% Yes (54) 15% 370 total votes Your vote: Remove Shakuras Plateau? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Metalopolis?No (359) 97% Yes (11) 3% 370 total votes Your vote: Remove Metalopolis? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
Poll: Remove Xelnaga Caverns?No (350) 93% Yes (28) 7% 378 total votes Your vote: Remove Xelnaga Caverns? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
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I have a love/hate relationship with Blistering Sands.
I hate it because it's a gimmicky piece of shit map that rewards one basing.
I love it because I have a 90% win rate on it against any race.
So I'll vote Delta Quadrant, because it's absolutely ridiculously asymmetric unless you spawn cross positions.
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Blistering sands would be a great map if they got rid of the destructible rocks, or at the very least moved them nearer to the ramp. Where they are now just means that you can pressure your opponent as zerg.
Put it this way - Blistering sands is imbalanced against terran, but less so than DQ, LT and Steppes are against zerg.
The amusing thing is that I keep running into terrans on BS on ladder. If I played as T this would be the first map I veto.
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On November 15 2010 17:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote: hmmm this poll should be multiple choice, or have a multiple choice one below it even a poll for each map or something ugh voted dq before remembering scrap station was there
Scrap station is an awesome map. I hate to see the hate.
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On November 15 2010 17:38 smegged wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 17:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote: hmmm this poll should be multiple choice, or have a multiple choice one below it even a poll for each map or something ugh voted dq before remembering scrap station was there Scrap station is an awesome map. I hate to see the hate.
its not bad, but im not really a fan of the 3rd being that easily attackable and really in the map pool i only want maps that i figure are pure awesome
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would love to see blistering sands and scrap removed.
i don't mind steppes. dislike junglebasin but haven't played on it too much to have a good judgement on it.
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Jungle Basin, hands down... Steppes and Delta are both horrid maps for Zerg, but I have had them checked off for so long I can't even complain about them. Jungle Basin is just too hard to secure a third on, and I'm not a fan of in-base naturals. Not to mention the super short rush distance.
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blistering sands being the least favourite amazes me
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Jungle basin needs two more expos and golds to be good. Make everything really insane.
I hate steppes more than anything else on earth. In fact, I just hate 1v1 maps in general. Even long as hell ones like scrap station. Desert oasis was the only 1v1 map that made for epic games.
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I can't believe blistering has more votes than stepps.
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Everyting but Steppes of War, Metalopolis, and perhaps Xel Naga Caverns, but i dislike Metalopolis and Xel Naga Caverns.
I like the design of Steppes, and i don't hate small maps. A total map exchange wouldn't be all that bad thou.
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meh all i know is i dont think high yield minerals belong in competitive play. imo jungle basin and shakuras is going in the right direction in that sense
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Jungle Basin because of the expansion situation. Needed two more bases on that map imo...
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Maps are the weakest point of Starcraft 2 IMHO. I wouldn't be sad if they removed all of them but Metalopolis and Scrap Station (random player).
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Noo...don't remove my blistering sands
The problem isn't blistering, but that there are TOO FEW big macro-maps in the pool. But if we had like 80% big macro-maps and 20% small cute maps, I'd definitely keep blistering BECAUSE of the rocks. The rocks make blistering special, it always makes for interesting games, even though they are mostly short. But remember, for exmaple, kiwikaki vs TLO where TLO just went straight for the rocks IGNORING the push from kiwi and killing him afterwards with insane ling-pressure. You don't see this on any other map, on any other map TLO would've been forced to pull back and defend.
Therefore I'd like to see steppes removed because there really isn't anything special about steppes except it being frickin small. But blistering is different and different means awsome
EDIT: Concerning scrap station - I didn't vote for it, but the main flaw is the big ramp. The whole gamebalance rests on the defense of ramps. You can't even defend a perfectly done mass-marine-all-in with toss on scrap station, because you need two force-fields to block the whole thing.
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i voted jungle basin because i hate it with the fiery passion of 1000 suns, but i hate all of the top 4 voted maps. i don't mind blistering sands too much but it's pretty bad, and even though i mostly play zerg, i think scrap station is pretty obnoxious too.
edit: i agree with the poster above me as far as what the map pool should be like. half the maps in the current pool could be called 'unique,' whether being short rush distances or just having uncommon paths and base layouts. i think it's detrimental when you only have just as many straight up maps as you do unique ones, and i'd much rather have a stable set of solid maps that are rotated in and out with 2-4 maps (depending on the size of the map pool) that are unique being constantly changed every few months just to experiment and keep the map pool varied.
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Blizzard needs to stop being super-happy with the destructible rocks (pretty much any map, Blistering and Shakuras are prime examples) abusable cliffs (LT and kulas and yes, I know it's removed), ridiculous amounts of expos (shakuras) or too few expos in shitty positions (J Basin)
I wouldn't be sad to see the entire map pool refreshed, except MAYBE for Xel Naga, which is probably the most overplayed map atm, so it would probably have to go as well. If they made Steppes 15-20% bigger, it could also stay.
Out of custom Iccup maps I like Sanshorn Mists and Violet Heights most of all (except for the color, violet fucking rapes my eyes).
I would definitely like to see more good 3 player map ports (medusa, triathlon, outsider-like etc.)
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On November 15 2010 21:26 Sadistx wrote: I would definitely like to see more good 3 player map ports (medusa, triathlon, outsider-like etc.)
A 100% definite YES - 3 player maps are awsome because they play differently than 2 or 4-player-maps (obviously...). I don't understand why blizz didn't put any 3 player maps in.
Also crossfire should go in.
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I wish Blizzard would take them all out except Metaloplos and Shakuras. They need to learn a thing or two from the map making community.
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Jungle basin out please,this map sucks so hard vs terran as a zerg imo
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I've vetoed Steppes and Blistering. Steppes is simply too small and besides it's size there's nothing special to it, except the battlefield being so important to control.
Blistering is just boring at the stage we're in now where bio play is so common, kewl map for mech.
I'm surprised how many like Scrap Station, the few votes it's received i presume is due XvZ. There's spawn imbalance on the map and it's really not that different from Jungle Basin, except the air distance. Easily attained natural, hard third and rocks to gain another acces to the enemies base.
I don't think Jungle Basin is a particular good map, but i'd rather see Blistering&Steppes removed. The maps i would like to see return to the map pool are Desert Oasis and a bigger version of Incineration Zone, it has destructible rocks so that there's still a backdoor map in the pool, but there's just so many more features on Incineration and unlike a lot, i like high grounds dropping with tank and junk. And Desert Oasis is just great in every way.
There should definately be a "the small map" in the pool, but it doesn't have to be as insanely small as Steppes. And we have close spawns/DQ. And atleast DQ has potential for late game with the many expoes.
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I'm a little surprised that Blistering Sands is hated so much. I kinda like it.
Delta Quadrant needs to go for sure.
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Lost Temple, Blistering Sands, Delta Quadrant, Scrap Station.
I'd like to see Desert Oasis back. I don't particularly like Steppes of War but if they fix the position imbalances, it could be a fine map as well.
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i just want some maps that arent so goddamn small or with so many gimmicky rock/debris
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Steppes of War gets my vote. Any map designed for early aggression/base races should not leave the ability for Terran to fly their bases off to the edges of the map.
Aside from one of my own games, I have seen multiple VODs of Terrans losing base races only to fly their buildings off to the sides of this map and wait out the opponents rage-quit.
Jungle Basin is a close second, just a terrible designed map with no viable 3rd base.
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I'd like to see Metalopolis, Shakuras Plateu and maybe Scrap Station (it's slightly better off than an island map) and XNG to stay (300 degrees wide open natural anyone?), the rest is bullshit.
LT and DQ have very sweet spots that even a noob can drop thors and win the game with just that (even bronze players know how to produce thors, medivacs and how to drop). Usain Bolt can run from one base to another below 5 seconds in Steppes of War. Blistering Sands has too many harass opportunities, just too many, and the LOLrocks are just a joke and too stupid to be true. JB has a grand total of 8 bases and its LOLrocks can compete with Blistering Sands ones and can even win that competition.
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blistering would be fine if they stacked the rocks like neo medusa
scrap station has like a 95% win rate for zergs in tournaments, that map needs to gtfo
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On November 15 2010 23:34 mOnion wrote: blistering would be fine if they stacked the rocks like neo medusa
scrap station has like a 95% win rate for zergs in tournaments, that map needs to gtfo
is there actually somewhere that has recorded the W/L % of race v. race from a variety of tournaments? or even just from GSL?
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Scrap station = Are you zerg? no, is your enemy zerg? yes, then you are 3x more likely to lose now than if it was metalopolis.
Blistering sands = Terran is gimped here by a significant amount, lol 2 entrances.
Jungle basin = maps just weird, and not in a unique way like oasis.
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On November 15 2010 23:25 Durp wrote: Steppes of War gets my vote. Any map designed for early aggression/base races should not leave the ability for Terran to fly their bases off to the edges of the map.
Aside from one of my own games, I have seen multiple VODs of Terrans losing base races only to fly their buildings off to the sides of this map and wait out the opponents rage-quit.
The hell kind of complaint is that?
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LT and DQ. Maybe not removed, but at least LT needs to be changed. Why should the zerg player be forced to play perfectly against any random n00b who can build a tank or thor and a medivac reasonably early and just drop doom all over you? I'm perfectly okay with maps being slightly imbalanced, but the ledge on LT is just pure BS.
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Delta Quadrant for sure! This map is so Terran favored it's ridiculously imbalanced.
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On November 15 2010 23:25 Durp wrote: Steppes of War gets my vote. Any map designed for early aggression/base races should not leave the ability for Terran to fly their bases off to the edges of the map.
Aside from one of my own games, I have seen multiple VODs of Terrans losing base races only to fly their buildings off to the sides of this map and wait out the opponents rage-quit.
Jungle Basin is a close second, just a terrible designed map with no viable 3rd base. Troll alert!
My vote is to get Matchpoint added to the pool, it's such a great map
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LT, the naturals are too vulnerable for zerg in a ZvT.
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Jungle basin for sure. Blistering sands is okay. Its one of the maps that makes for interesting play and actually forces people to play differently.
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Scrap Station - Wide choke is fail choke.
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I voted to not remove any of the maps. If anything, I'd like more maps added(not DO and KR, but new).
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Blistering sands is the funnest map for me, always has been. People think it's small, but it takes longer to go from base to base on Blistering sands than Scrap station (With rocks up of course). BS fighting!
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where is the "none" vote ?
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jungle basin, because its impossible to get a 3rd and everything is full of small corridors and ledges... wah
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Blistering sands is one of my favorite maps...
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I've barely played last month, but from watching tournaments i would like to see Delta Quadrant(DQ) changed so u can only spawn in cross positions think would make map the most balanced map. if this wasnt changed i could see why you would want it removed tho.
i have yet to see macro game on jungle basin yet would imagine it would be quite good tho.
any zerg games to watch on steps of war are boring to watch.
also is it true u can only get cross spawns on shak plat?
maybe a good thread to start would be what maps you would like to see added from user generated pool of maps
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Why the hate on blistering sands? I almost always get vZ on it, 15nex is easy as hell to hold on this map, and you just need a pylon overlooking the backdoor for when the Z inevitably tries to break it down. Then you just fully wall-off your natural and use the backdoor as your main entrance.
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Blistering sands should be removed, I don't even know why it is still in the mappool for the bigger tournaments.
After that people should start having a look at steppes of war, altough the map isn't bad in overall design, the rush distance just is to short. I don't want to say that every map has to be huge, variety in the mappool is good, but steppes is just to short.
And then maybe consider replacing LT or making some edits to the map (cliffs)
Metal/scrap/xel'naga can stay for as long as needed (basicly untill there are very good maps that outdo these, and are suitable to replace those).
I don't have enough experience on the newer maps (shakuras/jungle) so I didn't vote on those.
Just my 2 cents.
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BS is the worst map in the pool - even SoW is less gimmicky
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deltra quadrant. at least bs is fun
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Blistering, Steppes, Delta. Three thumbed down by me, three I wouldn't miss.
Jungle Basin and Scrap aren't fantastic either.
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Narrow the ledge on LT so Thor's can't hit the natural and tanks can't get out of range of spine crawlers and it's a good map. Otherwise it sucks.
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Scrap Station is still ludicrously assymmetrical for *no reason at all* other than to continually piss me off :p
But with DQ, a map has been added that I actually hate more than SS, so there is no choice here.
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Steppes of war, blistering sands, and kind of jungle basin. Any small map is silly, and promotes early aggressive strategies because they are so strong.
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Blistering sands ( Zerg Sands, whatever), fe and roach rush all the time. Sometimes delayed all-in roach rush. Retarded map for terran ( and for protoss in PvZ). No wonder zerg players holds it so tight.
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I wouldn't want to see LT removed because it is an otherwise great map outside of the ledge. I would like to see the ledge narrowed, allowing less room to micro on top, or pushed back slightly so that you can tank drop but not thor drop (outside of denying a couple mineral patches).
Blistering Sands needs to go because it is forcing players to develop strategies for a style of map that is completely different than everything else. Alternatively they could just get rid of the backdoor and cut down the size of the main, maybe drop a low ground 3rd in that area instead and it might be a sweet map.
Delta Quadrant is awful for Zerg, has positional imbalance, and absurdly close rush distance. There's no saving it and it needs to go.
Steppes just needs to be a little bigger. Blizz should double the size of the middle area and see how that changes things. It's just too small otherwise.
JB needs at least a somewhat safe 3rd option, forced 2 base is lame.
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On November 15 2010 07:45 Karliath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:41 ThorIsHere wrote: Blistering Sands
Small map with backdoor rocks is fail Jungle Basin has backdoor rocks too.
You can't jump from back door to front door on Jungle Basin easily. Your opponent sort of has to choose which way they want to attack. Plus, Jungle Basin's natural is really easy to expo on.
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As a Zerg, I don't find Blistering Sands to be THAT bad, I mean, the backdoor does create some problems, but I can't disqualify an entire map simply because there's a backdoor.
Steppes of War is annoying as a Zerg, since the rush distance is so short it really makes a macro game hard to pull off.
Jungle Basin annoys me because it's stupid easy to get your natural but so hard to grab your 3rd. I don't have too much trouble getting the natural on any map (so the overprotected natural isn't really that much of a boon) but have a hell of a time transitioning into a third in Basin. Even though it seems like a protected natural is good for Zerg on paper, with closer inspection it's obvious that it really helps Terran and Protoss just as much if not more.
I haven't had a single ZvP on that map that didn't go 2-base stargate phoenix and it's really frustrating.
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On November 15 2010 07:47 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:44 Karliath wrote: Do you guys not want Steppes of War because it is small? Is it actually broken that you have to remove it?
My vote is for Shakuras Plateau. Any 4 player map should have people spawning in random locations for 1v1. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that, from the start, you know that your opponent is in 1 of 2 locations. It's a 2v2 map. Take it away. Considering a siege tank can basically shoot from a terrans natural to your natural >_> Whoever can take control of the middle first usually wins, and its basically designed for 6 minute rush games.
No it isn't, stop playing like bronze players and it'll bump to 15.
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Steppes of war is the worst.
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On November 16 2010 07:45 cydial wrote: Steppes of war is the worst.
I kind of agree, but only if you're talking about laddering... its kind of like bloodbath to me, shouldn't be used for any ladder/professional map but its a lot of fun to dick around on with friends.
So yea remove it from the ladder map pool but keep the map for everything else of course
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They should just remove all of them and have somebody competent like Kespa do it.
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I'd like to see Blistering Sands removed above all else, also Quadrant, Steppes, current Lost Temple - map can be fine with some small re-tools. Moreover I really think, at least in terms of high-level/tournament play that NONE of the Blizzard maps are up to snuff.
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Problem with this is it has racial imbalance written all over it. EDIT: What I mean is: Different races will want different maps removed. As a Zerg, I LOVE Blistering Sands and HATE Steppes. But I'm sure that'd be different for Terrans and Protosses. (Also, I don't get why you can't just play better instead of complain about imbalance? If terran is all about positional advantage then can't you set up below your backdoor to protect both entrances whlist holding Xel-nagas?
But I think LT should go.... That cliff abuse is huuuuuuurting. Especially on the close position.
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i'm surprised there isn't more hate for scrap station. as a protoss i am completely lost on what to do vs zerg on this map; it seems like things that work on other maps just don't here, and in pro games i see the same thing. to me this seems like a reason to remove scrap station, although i definitely see why someone would vote for steppes or blistering as well.
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Shakuras is the worst map ever.
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can we add crossfire? That map kicks ass.
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The only good maps in the current map pool are LT, Meta, Caverns, Steppes, and maybe Scrap. DQ is just horrible, Jungle basin is just 2base vs 2base forever, Shakuras is clearly a 2v2 map, and... I just kinda hate Blistering Sands, the backdoor is just dumb.
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Delta Quadrant for sure.Being a Zerg user I might as well kill myself when I play on DQ.
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On November 16 2010 08:25 rycho wrote: i'm surprised there isn't more hate for scrap station. as a protoss i am completely lost on what to do vs zerg on this map; it seems like things that work on other maps just don't here, and in pro games i see the same thing. to me this seems like a reason to remove scrap station, although i definitely see why someone would vote for steppes or blistering as well. If what works on other maps doesn't work here, then do something different.
The fact that strategy X for PvZ works on other maps but not on Scrap Station is not a good reason to get rid of it -- one of the main reasons for a varied map pool is that on this map, people would use strategy Y instead which works on Scrap Station but not on other maps.
A good reason to get rid of Scrap Station is if it happens that strategy Y doesn't exist.
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On November 16 2010 08:30 Thurokiir wrote: can we add crossfire? That map kicks ass.
Why would anyone want more CorridorCraft maps? Can't they think of anything except for narrow hallway maps.
Thanks for putting the per map polls up! Now it is clear that Steppes and Terran-Q are the most despised maps in the sector!
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On November 15 2010 07:45 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 07:43 fabiano wrote: I would like to see all maps removed.
But if we could only remove 1, DQ would be my choice. Horrible map. Wait...what's wrong with DQ, it allows for the greatest variety of strategies. You can have short distance, long distance, you can expand, you can drop...
For zerg you basically have to take the natural outside your base, and since it has a huge choke, 1base all-ins or a lot of early pressure is extremely hard to deal with as z.
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On November 16 2010 08:32 Sergeras wrote: Delta Quadrant for sure.Being a Zerg user I might as well kill myself when I play on DQ.
In this poll I voted down Delta Quadrant and Lost Temple.
Lost Temple has cliff abuse problems, and is just a stale, overplayed map IMO.
Delta Quadrant is just a map I really don't like. The close proximity of bases, and the 8 expos blocked by destructible rocks, and the ramps to the side of the natural rather than behind. AND the huge amount of dead space around the edges, allowing for air units to basically hang around off the side of the map. I just don't like it.
I could understand people who want Steppes because it's very small, but I just like the simplicity of the map for some reason. Also, even though I have Jungle Basin thumbed down ingame (along with DQ and LT), TvP/PvT seem like it could be fun on that map. Not that I watch those matchups...
As for Blistering Sands, eh, it's not a great map, but I don't think it's that bad. I think it would be better if the backdoor rocks had more HP though.
As for innovative map ideas, the first thing I thought was having a map with mains that have, instead of the standard 8 blue patches, 5 blue and 3 gold patches. Players would need to direct their opening workers to mine the faster patches first, and it could open up some interesting new openings.
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i feel we have a really good map pool right now 2 maps imo are iffy but in every lan you have 2 bans (generally) so yea the maps ofcourse are steppes and dquad dquad being my least favourite as a protoss player but also because of my style i just don't like the map in general it's been down voted for so long i just really hate it that and ofcourse steppes is just stupid it was during a time when everyone was 2 gating pvp haha
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Switch Blistering Sands with the new DO.
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i feel blistering sands and steppes of war need to be removed. i voted sands tho. i hate that map more for some reason.
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On November 16 2010 02:32 monkh wrote: I've barely played last month, but from watching tournaments i would like to see Delta Quadrant(DQ) changed so u can only spawn in cross positions think would make map the most balanced map. if this wasnt changed i could see why you would want it removed tho.
i have yet to see macro game on jungle basin yet would imagine it would be quite good tho.
any zerg games to watch on steps of war are boring to watch.
also is it true u can only get cross spawns on shak plat?
maybe a good thread to start would be what maps you would like to see added from user generated pool of maps
No. I've gotten an opponent spawning in every corner.
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On November 16 2010 09:20 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 02:32 monkh wrote: I've barely played last month, but from watching tournaments i would like to see Delta Quadrant(DQ) changed so u can only spawn in cross positions think would make map the most balanced map. if this wasnt changed i could see why you would want it removed tho.
i have yet to see macro game on jungle basin yet would imagine it would be quite good tho.
any zerg games to watch on steps of war are boring to watch.
also is it true u can only get cross spawns on shak plat?
maybe a good thread to start would be what maps you would like to see added from user generated pool of maps No. I've gotten an opponent spawning in every corner.
On Shakuras your opponent can only spawn in 2 places, he cannot spawn directly above you (where your ally would be in 2v2)
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obviously Blistering Sands and Jungle out, both shit maps
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I hate blistering sands, its too easy for zerg to get those rocks and flood your main causing you to cover two spots at once. That and its so hard to get a 3rd base running. Jungle basin is the same damn thing as blistering except the rocks are at the expo and everything is so poorly placed. All other maps are okay and steppes is just the close position map. I think we all need one of those at least for shits and giggles.
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Shakuras Plateau is the first map which is actually good. They got that one right. However, pretty much all of the other maps are bad.
Lost Temple shouldn't be removed but it has to be edited so Terrans can't abuse the natural expansion cliffs with Thor drops.
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I want larger more macro oriented maps, so xel naga, DQ, and Shakuras stays imo. I HATE steps, jungle basin, AND ESPECIALLY BLISTERING SANDS. Oh god I miss desert oasis so much and I miss Kulas as well!
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i think all they have to do is remove the back door rocks on dessert oasis and it will be a decently good map. without the dest rocks its a very standard and straight forward map.
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Remove them all, replace with ICCUP.
Metal, Xel and maybe shakiras can stay
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im not so concerned with which maps are taken out so much as which maps are put in
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I really hate DQ. Dont know why, just never really clicked on that map.
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I really like steppes. Though, I like my big 1 base bio push at around the 8min mark. Steppes lets me run up, kill off the army and maybe a forward structure or 2, then run back to the middle and join with the reinforcements for a second push+expo. If it doesn't kill them outright I'm in a damn good spot.
We should definitely keep steppes. Blistering sands has to go though, even with my beloved bio, the distance between front and back are just dumb.
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Ehehe I love all the zergs complaining about DQ. xD
I'd either get rid of BS, or get rid of the sight blockers in front of the rocks. It's not that I think Zerg has an easy time (toss player here), but it really punishes early expanding AND early colossus play, as the FE is harder to hold with the rocks and collosus based armies are immobile.
I just dislike maps that discourage certain strats, as the game should be played as race vs. race and not strat vs. strat based on map...
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i hope its not just me wondering why the vote with all maps has 33% blistering as the least favourite, but individually blisterings about half-half thats gotta basically mean people that dislike blistering have it as a least favourite
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Excuse me, please, but why do so many people hate Blistering Sands?
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Just about all these maps have problems that we are so well rehearsed in repeating... even Metal has the cannon rush at 3 o'clock and XNC has positional imbalances for zerg with creep tumors. Definitely time for some new maps.
I voted to ditch steppes. Only enjoyable games i ever have on that map are TvT.
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The reason I do not dislike Blistering Sands is that it gives more reward for map control, I think the main reason a lot of BW players dislike it is because you have to be in control of at least 1 tower to know where you will be attacked, and that's new to BW players. I think with time, people will warm up to it, at least that aspect of it.
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Blistering, Jungle Basin, Delta Quadrant and Lost Temple all really suck ass tbh, and probably Steppes aswell. Really time for some new maps... can blizzard add the iccup maps already plz...
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Out of all of the maps in the map pool right now, Jungle Basin is the one map that makes me rage above all other. I don't like pretty much all of the maps, but that's probably because I played zerg in BroodWar and in SC2 and I feel really cramped
That said, I really don't like all of the cheesy, fancy maps they have in the map pool. It just doesn't feel like a game of skill with all of the weird builds that are possible because of the map pool. It seems like every single map has some out of the ordinary, strange little area that can be abused. Since I used Jungle Basin as an above example, I suppose blinking stalkers into my natural is one of those things.
I wish I could X all maps but metalopolis and Xelnaga.
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I would like to see people get ICCUP maps on blizzard map pool. But i doubt the prideful Blizzard would let a 3rd party map making team to make official blizzard maps
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The only maps that even remotely deserve to stay are Xel Naga and Metalopolis.
Blistering, Shakuras, and Scrap are maps I'd put in the tier below that. The rest of the maps are trash tier and need to be chucked asap.
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I'd like to see all of them removed and to see either just straight up conversions of sc:bw maps or newly created sc:bw'esque maps. No more huge gaps behind mineral lines, backdoors or huge areas to defend your natural. Maybe even some maps where the 3'rd is easy to take pretty quick.
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