Wow...anyone got a transcript of that? That was the most epic speech ever. That is the most profound thing I've heard in a looooong time.
MOD EDIT:
On November 13 2010 22:22 Kluwn wrote: " I'm gonna be talking my own things now as there isn't anything important to translate.
First of all I'd like to say I have a great respect for NesTea not just because he won the tournament but because this guy had the courage to do what he wanted to do and proved he was right.I'm saying this because too many people even in Korea consider playing games is a waste of time.I, myself, was unemployed for 2 years *laughs*, bout a year and a half before I joined GOM.All I did was play games at home and my friends would say that I'm wasting my life.Well...uhm..who's laughing now ?. I asked them " Can you honestly say that you like your job " and I asked them " Do you have a fan who draws a fanart just for you ? ". That shuts them up.
So everytime you feel ashamed of being a nerd and your friends, teachers, neighbours and even parents think gaming is a waste of time you'll remember there's no such thing as wasting life as long as you have the courage to do what you like and be passionate about it.You'll remember , if NesTea listened to all those critics he wouldn't be standing there with a trophy and you'll remember that even if you feel nobody around you supports you that I, Jay, Artosis and Tasteless, everyone in GOM will support you.Why ? Because we believe in esports. *someone in the backgroud :"wow" * *Junkka laughs* .I actually prepared this"
I swear to god I could not agree more with what john was saying and all the crap people give people for playing games and/or being a nerd. That was possibly the most epic gaming related speech i've ever heard.
There was a thread yesterday or the day before about someone who wanted to become a progamer. And so many people were bashing his head in for dropping out of college to pursue his dream. Well John said it very well. You only have 1 life and it is yours to do with what you want.
Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
I guess the figure of speech "if you enjoy wasting time [doing whatever you do], is that time really wasted?" fits in nicely here.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
If everyone would think like us there would be no interesting people left. No one shits on Rockstars for wasting their life and dying from drugs
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Meh here i was thinking working at a broadcasting company was a job :s as for zergbong im sure hes not a stupid guy thinking he can live off that forever.
Junkka's speech was more entertaining than the final itself. Gutsy, too - if he weren't one of GOMtv's core staffers and was just a professional interpreter working for an organization that wasn't so laid back, he could very well have been fired for going off the hook like that.
And it's not like anybody who was staying up to the wee hours of the morning really needed to hear it, but hey... "Who's laughing now?"
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
You need a Doctor of Medicine just to pay the bills? If you do what you love, and can live from it, then that's what its all about, basically what the speech was saying, but you obviously missed that.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So your definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
The world needs more people like Junkka who do what they enjoy and not what is the "best" career choice or makes the most money. Your post is so negative and completely misses the point of what Junkka was trying to say.
Great speech by Junkka. Can't wait to catch a transcript or a video of it on youtube. He's one of my favorite people from the GSL just because he seems so nice and like a genuinely good guy. John translating!!!
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Actually you're the sad thing.
I'm not even gonna argue with you, you're definitely a lost cause.
PS. forgot to why I came to this thread in the first place, namely someone like John realising that there's no such thing as wasting your life as long as you're doing what you love <3
A very moving speech. Im glad he has a job in e-sports. He really is a hidden gem of Gom. He is getting better at translating and hes becoming a personality alongside tasteless and artosis.
That was such an inspirational speech. It just felt so sincere and must ring true for most gamers. I hope they keep John on at Gom for a long Time. Homeboys living the Dream
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
So your saying the "world rolls" by having people who have a phd, and people who don't, meaning people who don't can't get by and can't pay the bills and have wasted their life. Stop for a second and think about how ridiculous you are.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Actually you're the sad thing.
I'm not even gonna argue with you, you're definitely a lost cause.
You just replied to tell me you're not arguing with me about that? Talk about a comment with a lot of content.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
you're right, everyone without a phd is unemployed at 50
nice speech John, I said in the LR thread you are the greatest preacher named john since John the Baptist!
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
You need a Doctor of Medicine just to pay the bills? If you do what you love, and can live from it, then that's what its all about, basically what the speech was saying, but you obviously missed that.
how expensive is it to live in korea? it can't be as bad as here in the US... i bet $80k goes a long way.
On November 13 2010 21:43 Tabula`Rasa wrote: Wow...anyone got a transcript of that? That was the most epic speech ever. That is the most profound thing I've heard in a looooong time.
yep, not as close to the epic levels of Day9 daily episode 100, but close...
I was so excited when he spoke that I accidentally slapped my little sister. Parents will probably pull the internet for the rest of the day but that was totally worth it
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Lol. What? Doctor of Medicine? Hell, i'm a doctor of playing videogames. it was mentioned earlier in the GSL or was it a question answered by NesTea himself that after his SC 1 career that he went on to get a "normal" office job and returned to SC2 to make an awesome win in teh finalz and doubtful anyone who just wins 90k or whatever thinks they're gonna live with 90k forever, use common sense before you post?
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
lol my dad makes way upwards of 6 figures a year and is 64...and he is a high school dropout never set foot in college...GG
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
This person makes me upset, your thought process kills me.
People give nerds a hard time because they like to "waste there life inside" Yet the average 21 year old just get's trashed whenever they can, I was told by a girl at work recently that I was wasting my time because I enjoyed sudoku.
I asked her what she liked to do and she stated "party", and I didn't reply by saying "you are wasting your life bitch." Instead I said well if that's what you enjoy doing then go do it, it's your life to do what you want. Following your dreams is something not many people can do, most people give up or pussy out. I completely agree with what he said in his speech and I am proud that he would go so far as to state that on air. I'm proud to be a nerd, and i'm proud to spend my time playing games. Because it's what I love to do, you my friend are part of the wrong community if you disagree.
By the way, if anyone's going to the trouble of grabbing the clip for YouTube, could you also get the SlayerSBoxeR advert that played between games 1 and 2? Between that and Junkka, I don't mind at all that I stayed up for seven straight games of 2-rax vs. 14 hatch [1].
TBH, I thought it was a bit cliche. There are many new sports and games that come out and it's hard for it to become mainstream especially with the values non-Asian countries have. Yes, it is good to follow your passion, but you're going to need to balance it with a promising career. There's a reason why artistry, craftsmanship and social work has bad pay/been in the decline.
Also, I have a feeling this is going to get locked.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
So your saying the "world rolls" by having people who have a phd, and people who don't, meaning people who don't can't get by and can't pay the bills and have wasted their life. Stop for a second and think about how ridiculous you are.
Stop with that PHD bullshit it was just a random achievement you can get far with in life... just replace it with anything else highly accepted by the society and/or gives you a lot of money.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
Its possible to go to University later on in your life, the sad thing is that youre defining a wasted life around a person's job, when the only measure of the worth of a person's life is their own happiness.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
lol my dad makes way upwards of 6 figures a year and is 64...and he is a high school dropout never set foot in college...GG
While i'm not disagreeing with your point, the times have changed.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
Le sigh, well do what makes you happy. There are plenty of post doc students making pretty average/low money for their level of education. People who feel then need to look down on everyone else from some perceived ivory tower probably have their own issue they need to deal with.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
So your saying the "world rolls" by having people who have a phd, and people who don't, meaning people who don't can't get by and can't pay the bills and have wasted their life. Stop for a second and think about how ridiculous you are.
Stop with that PHD bullshit it was just a random achievement you can get far with in life... just replace it with anything else highly accepted by the society and/or gives you a lot of money.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
Its possible to go to University later on in your life, the sad thing is that youre defining a wasted life around a person's job, when the only measure of the worth of a person's life is their own happiness.
It's hard for people to understand the concept when they tie all notions of happiness to their level of employment, as opposed to the passion they have for it and other things in life.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
So your saying the "world rolls" by having people who have a phd, and people who don't, meaning people who don't can't get by and can't pay the bills and have wasted their life. Stop for a second and think about how ridiculous you are.
Stop with that PHD bullshit it was just a random achievement you can get far with in life... just replace it with anything else highly accepted by the society and/or gives you a lot of money.
If you define your goals by what makes you money or what is respected by society, then you may find that it is you that has wasted your life when you look back on it.
On November 13 2010 21:47 Xavv wrote: Definitely the most inspirational and heart touching speech I have EVER heard from somebody regarding esports.
Nothing is cooler than being proud of what you do and love, and I dont think anybody can put it better than he did.
Day[9] Daily #100 was much more emotion filled and impacting on me (obviously it was 2 hours dedicated to it), but randomly breaking out into a rant about following your dream on a live broadcast in front of hundreds of thousands of viewers is quite amazing.
Also Stermy's article in the 2009 e-sports yearbook was pretty awesome to me as well.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Lol. What? Doctor of Medicine? Hell, i'm a doctor of playing videogames. it was mentioned earlier in the GSL or was it a question answered by NesTea himself that after his SC 1 career that he went on to get a "normal" office job and returned to SC2 to make an awesome win in teh finalz and doubtful anyone who just wins 90k or whatever thinks they're gonna live with 90k forever, use common sense before you post?
Also, Doctor of Medicine.
I don't know about the résumé of NesTea. Just wanted to remind people that out of one extremely successful progamers (SlayerS BoxeR) there are a hundred who wasted some precious youth time. I think there was a nice article by Rekrul about it.
On November 13 2010 22:02 Omar91 wrote: I missed the speech what did he say ?
He talked about how NesTea got to where he was because of his dedication to the game over ten years, and encouraged people to follow their dreams. Then he talked about how StarCraft (and gaming in general) still doesn't get a whole lot of respect in Korea, and how people looked down on him (Junkka) because he spent a year and a half of unemployment playing games. Well, now he's being paid to cover SC2, so there!
You really have to listen to it yourself, though - my paraphrase doesn't capture the deadpan, modest tone we've come to know and love from John.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
Its possible to go to University later on in your life, the sad thing is that youre defining a wasted life around a person's job, when the only measure of the worth of a person's life is their own happiness.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
At least he is top protoss on EU ladder and top4 at blizzcon.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
If he is not a successful progamer you must have some crazy concept for a successful progamer.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
Stop filling a perfectly good thread about appreciating Junkka's awesome speech with your negativity and combativeness.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
Stop filling a perfectly good thread about appreciating Junkka's awesome speech with your negativity and combativeness.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
He's pretty famous /successful in the Ukraine yes. Not to mention elsewhere.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
At least he is top protoss on EU ladder and top4 at blizzcon.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
Apart from winning a tournament, most teams (STARTALE ) are supported by sponsors, which give them a stable income.
^ QFT. We all get your point Butchji, but there really is not much of a purpose coming in here and trying to bash everybody who doesn't share your view on things...
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
He's pretty famous /successful in the Ukraine yes. Not to mention elsewhere.
Yes, I know he writes for a magazine etc. and is famous. I meant achievement-wise.
butchji, you seem to think that huge amounts of money automatically equals a good life. The whole point of John's speech was to encourage people to do what you really want to and not let the things "highly accepted by society" dictate the direction of your life. Seriously if you're rich and do something just for the sake of being rich and not because you believe in it you'll be pretty miserable anyhow.
I'd much rather be poor and be proud of what I'm doing than trying to achieve some superior position among other people just for the sake of having a shitload of money. Spending money can only do so much for you. If you don't agree with John's speech why do you post in a thread working as a tribute to it?
It is no different than a person trying to become a professional sports player. Some people come out of school and drop right into the office world and that is what they do for life, others do "young persons" professions for some time and eventually move on.
If you are a smart, creative person who is honest and hard working you will find your way through life and be happier for it if you spent time "chasing your dream." Nothing is worse than hearing a 50 year old person talk about all the things they WISH they had done, and it is always the guy sitting in some massive house with his fancy degrees and 1.5 children and 2.5 cars that make those comments.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
He's pretty famous /successful in the Ukraine yes. Not to mention elsewhere.
Yes, I know he writes for a magazine etc. and is famous. I meant achievement-wise.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
You need a Doctor of Medicine just to pay the bills? If you do what you love, and can live from it, then that's what its all about, basically what the speech was saying, but you obviously missed that.
how expensive is it to live in korea? it can't be as bad as here in the US... i bet $80k goes a long way.
its not as bad as the US but the job salary is pretty low.
On November 13 2010 22:14 Kawamura wrote: butchji, you seem to think that huge amounts of money equals a good life. The whole point of John's speech was to encourage people to do what you really want to and not let the things "highly accepted by society" dictate the direction of your life. Seriously if you're rich and do something just for the sake of being rich and not because you believe in it you'll be pretty miserable anyhow.
I'd much rather be poor and be proud of what I'm doing than trying to achieve some superior position among other people just for the sake of having a shitload of money. Spending money can only do so much for you. If you don't agree with John's speech why do you post in a thread working as a tribute to it?
I know. Actually I love eSports, too. And I know (almost) every artist, musician, athlete took a risk by not getting a 9to5 office job. Just saying it's maybe a rosy nice motivational speech. But way to one sided. Just listening to him made that clear. (Was unemployed for 1.5 years and now I work for GOM, yeah!)
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
He's pretty famous /successful in the Ukraine yes. Not to mention elsewhere.
Yes, I know he writes for a magazine etc. and is famous. I meant achievement-wise.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
He's pretty famous /successful in the Ukraine yes. Not to mention elsewhere.
Yes, I know he writes for a magazine etc. and is famous. I meant achievement-wise.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
He's pretty famous /successful in the Ukraine yes. Not to mention elsewhere.
Yes, I know he writes for a magazine etc. and is famous. I meant achievement-wise.
" I'm gonna be talking my own things now as there isn't anything important to translate.
First of all I'd like to say I have a great respect for NesTea not just because he won the tournament but because this guy had the courage to do what he wanted to do and proved he was right.I'm saying this because too many people even in Korea consider playing games is a waste of time.I, myself, was unemployed for 2 years *laughs*, bout a year and a half before I joined GOM.All I did was play games at home and my friends would say that I'm wasting my life.Well...uhm..who's laughing now ?. I asked them " Can you honestly say that you like your job " and I asked them " Do you have a fan who draws a fanart just for you ? ". That shuts them up.
So everytime you feel ashamed of being a nerd and your friends, teachers, neighbours and even parents think gaming is a waste of time you'll remember there's no such thing as wasting life as long as you have the courage to do what you like and be passionate about it.You'll remember , if NesTea listened to all those critics he wouldn't be standing there with a trophy and you'll remember that even if you feel nobody around you supports you that I, Jay, Artosis and Tasteless, everyone in GOM will support you.Why ? Because we believe in esports. *someone in the backgroud :"wow" * *Junkka laughs* .I actually prepared this"
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
How can you say he has barely any time left being a progamer?
Thats a ridiculous statement. He's just won nearly $87,000 US dollars, while not a profound amount of money it is indeed life changing and that's for sure.
Not to mention the fact that this isn't some bi-annual gig that he has to wait around for now. He is S-Class and auto qualified for future events after the GSL Season 3 and this is a prize he could win again or even multiple times.
He's 29, Starcraft 2 is so new he could EASILY be doing this for the next 6 years or more.
I wish people would quit with the age bullshit, there isn't a point in your life where you wake up and *POOF*; all the skills you have practiced to gain and develop for years of your life are magically gone and you are suddon a noob.
Stop being so close minded.
RE: White-Ra Amen!
You would still entitle White-Ra as a successful progamer? :o
He's pretty famous /successful in the Ukraine yes. Not to mention elsewhere.
Yes, I know he writes for a magazine etc. and is famous. I meant achievement-wise.
Nontheless he has accomplished more than you in the past and will continue to do so in the future, now if you're done trolling or just being a downright dbag, please go away you're ruining a awesome john thread, doctor of medicine.
On November 13 2010 22:22 Kluwn wrote: " I'm gonna be talking my own things now as there isn't anything important to translate.
First of all I'd like to say I have a great respect for NesTea not just because he won the tournament but because this guy had the courage to do what he wanted to do and proved he was right.I'm saying this because too many people even in Korea consider playing games is a waste of time.I, myself, was unemployed for 2 years *laughs*, bout a year and a half before I joined GOM.All I did was play games at home and my friends would say that I'm wasting my life.Well...uhm..who's laughing now ?. I asked them " Can you honestly say that you like your job " and I asked them " Do you have a fan who draws a fanart just for you ? ". That shuts them up.
So everytime you feel ashamed of being a nerd and your friends, teachers, neighbours and even parents think gaming is a waste of time you'll remember there's no such thing as wasting life as long as you have the courage to do what you like and be passionate about it.You'll remember , if NesTea listened to all those critics he wouldn't be standing there with a trophy and you'll remember that even if you feel nobody around you supports you that I, Jay, Artosis and Tasteless, everyone in GOM will support you.Why ? Because we believe in esports. *someone in the backgroud :"wow" * *Junkka laughs* .I actually prepared this"
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
On November 13 2010 22:22 Kluwn wrote: " I'm gonna be talking my own things now as there isn't anything important to translate.
First of all I'd like to say I have a great respect for NesTea not just because he won the tournament but because this guy had the courage to do what he wanted to do and proved he was right.I'm saying this because too many people even in Korea consider playing games is a waste of time.I, myself, was unemployed for 2 years *laughs*, bout a year and a half before I joined GOM.All I did was play games at home and my friends would say that I'm wasting my life.Well...uhm..who's laughing now ?. I asked them " Can you honestly say that you like your job " and I asked them " Do you have a fan who draws a fanart just for you ? ". That shuts them up.
So everytime you feel ashamed of being a nerd and your friends, teachers, neighbours and even parents think gaming is a waste of time you'll remember there's no such thing as wasting life as long as you have the courage to do what you like and be passionate about it.You'll remember , if NesTea listened to all those critics he wouldn't be standing there with a trophy and you'll remember that even if you feel nobody around you supports you that I, Jay, Artosis and Tasteless, everyone in GOM will support you.Why ? Because we believe in esports. *someone in the backgroud :"wow" * *Junkka laughs* .I actually prepared this"
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
i could have, but according to you, he is wasting his life
As much as the speech appealed to my sense of nerd pride, Junkka's wrong.
Doing something with a passion and eventually turning it into a way to be successful in life may work for some hobbies and some people. Yeah, there are professional computer gamers, just as there are people earning millions with sports or making a fortune with building toy trains.
However, those are all niches. How many people on the world can actually live from playing video games? How many can do nothing but their favorite sport and become rich from doing so? Almost none, compared to the huge number of people that would like to but didn't get the chance or didn't have the luck neccessary.
I do like the idea of being proud of what you do, especially since I'm a gamer myself and playing video games as a hobby still is a social stigma here and there. But encouraging gamers to just be passionate about gaming and saying they'll eventually turn that into an advantage? No sir, that won't work for 99% of people.
And by the way: Who says you can't find joy and fulfillment in a "normal" job? I, for my part, did.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
Exceptions to the rule? What rule? The one defined by the people who conform to the false reality that they exist? There are no rules, only those with no passion for following their dreams.
On November 13 2010 22:31 Shockk wrote: As much as the speech appealed to my sense of nerd pride, Junkka's wrong.
Doing something with a passion and eventually turning it into a way to be successful in life may work for some hobbies and some people. Yeah, there are professional computer gamers, just as there are people earning millions with sports or making a fortune with building toy trains.
However, those are all niches. How many people on the world can actually live from playing video games? How many can do nothing but their favorite sport and become rich from doing so? Almost none, compared to the huge number of people that would like to but didn't get the chance or didn't have the luck neccessary.
I do like the idea of being proud of what you do, especially since I'm a gamer myself and playing video games as a hobby still is a social stigma here and there. But encouraging gamers to just be passionate about gaming and saying they'll eventually turn that into an advantage? No sir, that won't work for 99% of people.
And by the way: Who says you can't find joy and fulfillment in a "normal" job? I, for my part, did.
I agree. The question is this - would you rather walk the safe walk, or live the dream, and get there or die trying? I think everyone values safety differently. That's all there is to it.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
So your saying the "world rolls" by having people who have a phd, and people who don't, meaning people who don't can't get by and can't pay the bills and have wasted their life. Stop for a second and think about how ridiculous you are.
Stop with that PHD bullshit it was just a random achievement you can get far with in life... just replace it with anything else highly accepted by the society and/or gives you a lot of money.
If you define your goals by what makes you money or what is respected by society, then you may find that it is you that has wasted your life when you look back on it.
So completely true. In one of my college business classes, we had a guest speaker come by and talk to the class. Very successful guy, worked his way up to an important spot in a well known company, has more money than I'll see in my lifetime.
During the question and answer session after his speech, he revealed that he has worked 55-60 hours a week for 20 years, his wife left him and took the kids.
I couldn't get over how much I don't want to be that guy. Spends all his time working, has no free time to enjoy his money, and it cost him his family. But according to society he's a huge success.
I'd rather live in a dump, work part time, and make just enough to get by than have any kind of "success" like that. And I'd prefer that option about as strongly as I'd prefer a delicious steak dinner over a poop sandwich.
On November 13 2010 22:22 Kluwn wrote: " I'm gonna be talking my own things now as there isn't anything important to translate.
First of all I'd like to say I have a great respect for NesTea not just because he won the tournament but because this guy had the courage to do what he wanted to do and proved he was right.I'm saying this because too many people even in Korea consider playing games is a waste of time.I, myself, was unemployed for 2 years *laughs*, bout a year and a half before I joined GOM.All I did was play games at home and my friends would say that I'm wasting my life.Well...uhm..who's laughing now ?. I asked them " Can you honestly say that you like your job " and I asked them " Do you have a fan who draws a fanart just for you ? ". That shuts them up.
So everytime you feel ashamed of being a nerd and your friends, teachers, neighbours and even parents think gaming is a waste of time you'll remember there's no such thing as wasting life as long as you have the courage to do what you like and be passionate about it.You'll remember , if NesTea listened to all those critics he wouldn't be standing there with a trophy and you'll remember that even if you feel nobody around you supports you that I, Jay, Artosis and Tasteless, everyone in GOM will support you.Why ? Because we believe in esports. *someone in the backgroud :"wow" * *Junkka laughs* .I actually prepared this"
Sorry if I butchered any words. <3
Thanks a lot. I missed this and was wondering what he was talking about exactly... Nice speech!! And I agree 100% with him!
I had a friend a few years back who played games 24/7 and I spent my time mostly with friends and going outside etc. Once I told him that he should think about him wasting his life. He then told me that he does think about it some times but that he always comes to the conclusion that he doesnt consider gaming as a waste of time, since he enjoys it so much. Everything else he could have done in that time would have been less fun for him so there are no regrets. When I thought about it, I agreed with him. I just did not think this way before. I like that john may open some peoples eyes here. Ofc, not everyone has to agree and not everyone has to make this choice. But people should stop calling it a "waste of time" when actually people are just doing what they want.... It is a far way from there to being really addicted so this should not be a valid argument since it is not true for 99.99% + of all gamers
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
Now please, how much are you making a year? How old are you to judge people's preferences on life? Do you have a JD or a MD?
Or are you someone who thinks he's smart and got it all figured out, when you are actually a loser day dreaming in your basement?
If you actually make more than average I would be really surprised, because everyone I know earning a high salary understands money does not equal happiness.
Being successful requires a lot of work, dedication and most importantly, love in what you are doing.
Which is exactly what people like Junkka and nestea are advocating.
On November 13 2010 22:31 Shockk wrote: As much as the speech appealed to my sense of nerd pride, Junkka's wrong.
Doing something with a passion and eventually turning it into a way to be successful in life may work for some hobbies and some people. Yeah, there are professional computer gamers, just as there are people earning millions with sports or making a fortune with building toy trains.
However, those are all niches. How many people on the world can actually live from playing video games? How many can do nothing but their favorite sport and become rich from doing so? Almost none, compared to the huge number of people that would like to but didn't get the chance or didn't have the luck neccessary.
I do like the idea of being proud of what you do, especially since I'm a gamer myself and playing video games as a hobby still is a social stigma here and there. But encouraging gamers to just be passionate about gaming and saying they'll eventually turn that into an advantage? No sir, that won't work for 99% of people.
And by the way: Who says you can't find joy and fulfillment in a "normal" job? I, for my part, did.
I think it shouldn't be interpreted as solely an encouragement to gamers, he's just saying that you're supposed to do what you believe in and what you're happy with. It's great that you've found a job that you're happy with, as far as I'm concerned you're living the dream. As long as you're proud of what you're doing it's great, it doesn't require that you become a progamer or a revolutionary artist as long as you're happy with it. Happiness>money.
I thought it was Jay (the other korean translator) since they were both translating at the time.
I've said it before in dj wheat's blog entry on professionalism... but it's passion from people like dj wheat, day9 and Junkka that's going to make esports grow. Hopefully maybe in the coming years, Esports would be taken seriously worldwide and people won't see it as a "failure" or a waste of time.
Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
On November 13 2010 22:31 Shockk wrote: As much as the speech appealed to my sense of nerd pride, Junkka's wrong.
Doing something with a passion and eventually turning it into a way to be successful in life may work for some hobbies and some people. Yeah, there are professional computer gamers, just as there are people earning millions with sports or making a fortune with building toy trains.
However, those are all niches. How many people on the world can actually live from playing video games? How many can do nothing but their favorite sport and become rich from doing so? Almost none, compared to the huge number of people that would like to but didn't get the chance or didn't have the luck neccessary.
I do like the idea of being proud of what you do, especially since I'm a gamer myself and playing video games as a hobby still is a social stigma here and there. But encouraging gamers to just be passionate about gaming and saying they'll eventually turn that into an advantage? No sir, that won't work for 99% of people.
And by the way: Who says you can't find joy and fulfillment in a "normal" job? I, for my part, did.
One point that he makes is that you can be successful and have a job RELATED to video games. It is not only about playing and being a pro-gamer. There are so many options and jobs relating to esports that you can have a "normal" job and still be surrounded by the things/game you love. I am not sure if that is what he really wanted to say, but at least it is what I read out of it :p
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
i could have, but according to you, he is wasting his life
Look. I just mentioned the extreme high risk that being a progamer takes. Of course it worked out well for LimYoHwan. But he said himself he was just hanging out in internet cafes instead of going to school... his parents thought he was wasting his life, too. Now imagine if he had a little less talent and didn't make it to the biggest eSport figure of all time. In fact you don't have to imagine it because there are tons of unknown unsuccessful ones...
Of course it's not only in progaming like that. Eminem being a successful rapper while thousands trying to be like him still are in the ghettos.
On November 13 2010 22:31 Shockk wrote: As much as the speech appealed to my sense of nerd pride, Junkka's wrong.
I do like the idea of being proud of what you do, especially since I'm a gamer myself and playing video games as a hobby still is a social stigma here and there. But encouraging gamers to just be passionate about gaming and saying they'll eventually turn that into an advantage? No sir, that won't work for 99% of people.
He isn't WRONG... he's just encouraging people to try to do what they love. But of course you have to be realistic about it. Obviously it's not a good idea for a 30 apm gold leaguer to drop out of college and move to Korea just because he really loves the GSL.
On November 13 2010 22:31 Shockk wrote:And by the way: Who says you can't find joy and fulfillment in a "normal" job? I, for my part, did.
How many people that study art end up being successful artists? How many people that play instruments all day become successful musician? There's more to life than getting a job that pays alot. It's not like you cant combine gaming and going to school. I've spent countless hours in front of the computer. I've raided hardcore in WoW, gotten world-firsts. Hell, a member of my guild was on a TV show about gaming addiction. She had 70% attendance, I had over 95%.
I also have a bachelors degree in marketing and I've been thinking about getting a masters degree but might work for a few years first. Got a job interview coming up in a couple of weeks (marketing manager for a game publisher).
You can definately combine what you love with what you "should" do. There's no need to choose, as long as you accept that you might not get as much sleep as ordinary people.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
i could have, but according to you, he is wasting his life
Look. I just mentioned the extreme high risk that being a progamer takes. Of course it worked out well for LimYoHwan. But he said himself he was just hanging out in internet cafes instead of going to school... his parents thought he was wasting his life, too. Now imagine if he had a little less talent and didn't make it to the biggest eSport figure of all time. In fact you don't have to imagine it because there are tons of unknown unsuccessful ones...
What's your point? There are unsuccessful people all over the world, for all kinds of jobs, let that be sports or I-banking.
You, for one, is likely to be one of them.
Why? because you think you have it all figured out, while everyone thinks you are retarded.
You can be doing w/e you are doing but being a dbag will ensure your failure.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
Do you think that Foxer, Nestea, Fruitdealer, Boxer, etc. have not made any contribution to the community?
You got hours of entertainment from watching them and are here posting on this site because of them. If their lives are "wasted" then so are the lives of Michael Jordan and Robert DeNiro.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
I find it funny that the two examples of contributing to the community you listed were highly payed CEOs and lawyers rofl
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
You don't know anything, there's no such thing a "rules" in life. The only rules that exist are man made and happiness isn't bound by rules (yes I know it sounds corny). You're probably going to have to find out the hard way that a big paycheck and fancy title isn't going to make your life as complete as you thought it would. Sorry man
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
Are you implying that progamers and esports move the world forward. I admit that devoting to something you want to do like gaming isn't a "waste of time" but progamers only contribute to esports and as far as our world is concerned, esports is something we can do without. Richard Branson, Bill Gates and Rupert Murdoch actually did something that contribute to society as a whole, so don't lump them in with progamers.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
What the fuck? Progaming doesn't contribute any less to the community than artists, film makers, or sports players. Your logic is flat out dumb. Football is a game, and yet football stars are seen as figures. How is esports any different?
Professional SC2 provides high quality entertainment. Football provides high quality entertainment. Football is "just a game" as well.
If people deserve respect they'll get respect. People like you don't determine who is worthy and who isn't.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
i could have, but according to you, he is wasting his life
Look. I just mentioned the extreme high risk that being a progamer takes. Of course it worked out well for LimYoHwan. But he said himself he was just hanging out in internet cafes instead of going to school... his parents thought he was wasting his life, too. Now imagine if he had a little less talent and didn't make it to the biggest eSport figure of all time. In fact you don't have to imagine it because there are tons of unknown unsuccessful ones...
What's your point? There are unsuccessful people all over the world, for all kinds of jobs, let that be sports or I-banking.
You, for one, is likely to be one of them.
Why? because you think you have it all figured out, while everyone thinks you are retarded.
You can be doing w/e you are doing but being a dbag will ensure your failure.
My point is that the speech is far to one-dimensional. And I don't think a regular 9to5 job is equally safe as being a progamer.
And please stop calling me a retard. It hurts so much inside. :,(
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
They contribute. They connect our passions. If it wasnt for these people, you, I or anyone else in here would be here enjoying what we see and read. There are different kinds of happinesses, which applies to different areas of the world.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
And what would you say about actors, athletes....a fucking circus performer?
They entertain right? So do gamers, but in their own way. When a gamer is able to make a living off of playing, it's not just because he's the best, it's because he entertains an audience, just like the professions I mentioned above. If movies were a niche product like gaming was, guys like Brad Pitt would be nobody's making minimal pay. It's all comes down to how wide-reaching their form of entertainment is. But that doesn't mean one form of entertainment has way more credibility than another.\
That being said, not alot of people make a living off of gaming. But for those that can, then why not do it as long as you can?
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
I find it funny that the two examples of contributing to the community you listed were highly payed CEOs and lawyers rofl
they make more contribution than a progamer will ever do in their life time
What the life coaches in this thread haven't mentioned is that there are also people who try to live a "normal" life and fail at it as well. They're stuck in a dead end job, not going anywhere and unable to leave the situation they're in.
So what's the difference between those people and those who choose their own path and fail? I mean Mr. Normal failed at life too, he just did something "accepted" by society. Is there a special consolation prize for that? :/
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
Some people work to live, others live to work. You fall into the second category and it's probably pretty hard to understand the opposite point of view.
On November 13 2010 22:52 FreeRice wrote: What the life coaches in this thread haven't mentioned is that there are also people who try to live a "normal" life and fail at it as well. They're stuck in a dead end job, not going anywhere and unable to leave the situation they're in.
So what's the difference between those people and those who choose their own path and fail? I mean Mr. Normal failed at life too, he just did something "accepted" by society. Is there a special consolation prize for that? :/
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
i could have, but according to you, he is wasting his life
Look. I just mentioned the extreme high risk that being a progamer takes. Of course it worked out well for LimYoHwan. But he said himself he was just hanging out in internet cafes instead of going to school... his parents thought he was wasting his life, too. Now imagine if he had a little less talent and didn't make it to the biggest eSport figure of all time. In fact you don't have to imagine it because there are tons of unknown unsuccessful ones...
Of course it's not only in progaming like that. Eminem being a successful rapper while thousands trying to be like him still are in the ghettos.
Alright, I'm probably pissing into the wind here, but this sort of thinking really just bothers me. Maybe because it reminds me of a kind of naivete and rigid thinking that I was once guilty of - I don't know.
Here's the fundamental problem. By all appearances, you've only got one shot at life. (If you choose to believe something other than that, that is your prerogative and your gamble.) People have created a concept of "success" in life, and lots of different people from different backgrounds have filled this idea with their own narrative. In the modern, developed world, this narrative seems to be that "success" means ending up with a high paying job and a nice family. Really? Is this supposed to apply to everyone? Is everyone supposed to be happy with $150k/yr, a wife and kids, a fancy car, and a house with a white picket fence? In America, that's pretty much the definition of success. Fuck. That. Some people seem to be fine with that mental image. I'm not, and I'm sure that lots of other people aren't either. You only live once. It is your burden to make the most of the time that you have on this earth. True value does not stem from possessions but from experiences. Experiences are what shape us as human beings. Memory and experience are things that cannot ever be taken from us without destroying who we are. Your fancy car and your house might disappear when you lose your job or the stock market crashes; if you were once the greatest Starcraft 2 player in the world, it doesn't matter what other people think of your achievement. That STAYS with you.
And sure, I'm a conformist. I'm in college. I'm getting an undergrad in engineering. But I don't want the sports car or the white picket fence. My degree is a tool to ensure I can get the most out of life - because, sometimes, doing what you really want to do takes money. And, sometimes, it takes years and years to finally achieve your goals. But if you are passionate and persistent, you can create memories - not things - for yourself that will hold meaning and value forever. Memories go to the grave with you.
Be brave enough to create your own definition of success, or you will not be able to look back on your life with anything approximating satisfaction.
On November 13 2010 22:52 FreeRice wrote: What the life coaches in this thread haven't mentioned is that there are also people who try to live a "normal" life and fail at it as well. They're stuck in a dead end job, not going anywhere and unable to leave the situation they're in.
So what's the difference between those people and those who choose their own path and fail? I mean Mr. Normal failed at life too, he just did something "accepted" by society. Is there a special consolation prize for that? :/
There's nothing wrong with being in a dead end job if you are happy. I'll never understand why people believe that you need to be successful in order to lead a fulfilled life.
I'd rather be happy than anything else. If you aren't happy, who gives a shit what else you have?
FFS, Progamers only give entertainment to people who watch esports, not the general public. The reason why progamer's contributions aren't as much as your athlete, actor, etc is because the majority of the people in our society look down on gaming. Harsh? Yes indeed, but thats life, and as long as esports is looked down on by those people, it will never really be a contribution to society, which i think is unfair but hey thats life, you just gotta deal with it, whether you like it or not.
There's not a whole lot of people who live their lives according to doing what they love, the typical 9-5 guy doesn't work their day job out of passion - but purely out of necessity. I really don't care for comparisons to extremely successful entrepreneurs because we're talking about common interests and less about if "living lavishly = happier life".
I'd rather live in a dump, work part time, and make just enough to get by than have any kind of "success" like that. And I'd prefer that option about as strongly as I'd prefer a delicious steak dinner over a poop sandwich.
and why not to be a Successful layer with happy family ? its not impossible. its like saying he got money but no heart... bullshit
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
i could have, but according to you, he is wasting his life
Look. I just mentioned the extreme high risk that being a progamer takes. Of course it worked out well for LimYoHwan. But he said himself he was just hanging out in internet cafes instead of going to school... his parents thought he was wasting his life, too. Now imagine if he had a little less talent and didn't make it to the biggest eSport figure of all time. In fact you don't have to imagine it because there are tons of unknown unsuccessful ones...
Of course it's not only in progaming like that. Eminem being a successful rapper while thousands trying to be like him still are in the ghettos.
Alright, I'm probably pissing into the wind here, but this sort of thinking really just bothers me. Maybe because it reminds me of a kind of naivete and rigid thinking that I was once guilty of - I don't know.
Here's the fundamental problem. By all appearances, you've only got one shot at life. (If you choose to believe something other than that, that is your prerogative and your gamble.) People have created a concept of "success" in life, and lots of different people from different backgrounds have filled this idea with their own narrative. In the modern, developed world, this narrative seems to be that "success" means ending up with a high paying job and a nice family. Really? Is this supposed to apply to everyone? Is everyone supposed to be happy with $150k/yr, a wife and kids, a fancy car, and a house with a white picket fence? In America, that's pretty much the definition of success. Fuck. That. Some people seem to be fine with that mental image. I'm not, and I'm sure that lots of other people aren't either. You only live once. It is your burden to make the most of the time that you have on this earth. True value does not stem from possessions but from experiences. Experiences are what shape us as human beings. Memory and experience are things that cannot ever be taken from us without destroying who we are. Your fancy car and your house might disappear when you lose your job or the stock market crashes; if you were once the greatest Starcraft 2 player in the world, it doesn't matter what other people think of your achievement. That STAYS with you.
And sure, I'm a conformist. I'm in college. I'm getting an undergrad in engineering. But I don't want the sports car or the white picket fence. My degree is a tool to ensure I can get the most out of life - because, sometimes, doing what you really want to do takes money. And, sometimes, it takes years and years to finally achieve your goals. But if you are passionate and persistent, you can create memories - not things - for yourself that will hold meaning and value forever. Memories go to the grave with you.
Be brave enough to create your own definition of success, or you will not be able to look back on your life with anything approximating satisfaction.
On November 13 2010 22:52 FreeRice wrote: What the life coaches in this thread haven't mentioned is that there are also people who try to live a "normal" life and fail at it as well. They're stuck in a dead end job, not going anywhere and unable to leave the situation they're in.
So what's the difference between those people and those who choose their own path and fail? I mean Mr. Normal failed at life too, he just did something "accepted" by society. Is there a special consolation prize for that? :/
It's less likely.
Uhh, recession, unemployment rates are up. What is this "less likely" you speak of?
On November 13 2010 22:31 Shockk wrote: As much as the speech appealed to my sense of nerd pride, Junkka's wrong.
I do like the idea of being proud of what you do, especially since I'm a gamer myself and playing video games as a hobby still is a social stigma here and there. But encouraging gamers to just be passionate about gaming and saying they'll eventually turn that into an advantage? No sir, that won't work for 99% of people.
He isn't WRONG... he's just encouraging people to try to do what they love. But of course you have to be realistic about it. Obviously it's not a good idea for a 30 apm gold leaguer to drop out of college and move to Korea just because he really loves the GSL.
Maybe I phrased that a bit too harsh. Of course I don't recommend gold leaguers to drop everything and move to Korea. With "being passionate about gaming" I meant pretty much everything, from progamers to developers to casters or even translators like Junkka. There are much, much more people wanting to do this kind of stuff than there are spots available.
And another thing regarding "normal jobs".
Why are so many people acting like it's the worst thing in the world to live an average life? Do you actually believe that so many people work 9-5, buy a house, marry and have kids because they're mindless zombie slaves to society, blindly following some tradition instilled into them?
I actually LOVE my job (I work as an instructor). I can't wait to have kids. And some day, for sure, I'll buy or build my own house. That's my idea of a good life.
Face it: Not only will most people never become rockstars/athletes/progamers (or GomTV translators, for that matter), NO, it's also not the one and only guaranteed way to happiness.
On November 13 2010 22:52 FreeRice wrote: What the life coaches in this thread haven't mentioned is that there are also people who try to live a "normal" life and fail at it as well. They're stuck in a dead end job, not going anywhere and unable to leave the situation they're in.
So what's the difference between those people and those who choose their own path and fail? I mean Mr. Normal failed at life too, he just did something "accepted" by society. Is there a special consolation prize for that? :/
Haha yeah I guess, according to this thread there are two paths in life. Something in esports or something that will get you above 6 figures a year.
How do you controll people best? By taking their minds off of the bad things.
The Romans did it back with their colloseum. Part of the reason there was peace in most of the empire was due to these games helping people from forgetting the bad things that happen around them.
Saying that anything is worth nothing to society is a misconception. You could say that the only thing productive people can do is grow crops for themselves. I work in the webdesign industry, and yes. if the internet was to suddenly explode I would be unemployed too. Then again, if electricity was destroyed because of some solar flare bs then more than half of the working population in the west would be jobless.
I do believe that just giving up on everything and doing whatever you like until you can get paid for it is admireable, yet risky. Then again, if all you did was study for some doctors or lawyers degree for 8 years and then you lose your eye due to a mismicro. All that life-macro would have been nulified.
I just think it is silly that we are discussing what people are worth jobwise in the STARCRAFT 2 GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM. I could expect this in the general forum, but really? This is just a starcraft 2 forum.
On November 13 2010 22:55 ace246 wrote: FFS, Progamers only give entertainment to people who watch esports, not the general public. The reason why progamer's contributions aren't as much as your athlete, actor, etc is because the majority of the people in our society look down on gaming. Harsh? Yes indeed, but thats life, and as long as esports is looked down on by those people, it will never really be a contribution to society, which i think is unfair but hey thats life, you just gotta deal with it, whether you like it or not.
ummm. that was the whole point of John's speech.....
he's saying if it makes you happy, then do it. if you want it, have a go at it.... don't just go by what is "socially acceptable"
Being happy and working a normal job isn't mutually exclusive. I don't think anyone's arguing that. This entire thing started because one poster decided to define happiness as basically someone who has a doctorate or is making 6 figures.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
i could have, but according to you, he is wasting his life
Look. I just mentioned the extreme high risk that being a progamer takes. Of course it worked out well for LimYoHwan. But he said himself he was just hanging out in internet cafes instead of going to school... his parents thought he was wasting his life, too. Now imagine if he had a little less talent and didn't make it to the biggest eSport figure of all time. In fact you don't have to imagine it because there are tons of unknown unsuccessful ones...
Of course it's not only in progaming like that. Eminem being a successful rapper while thousands trying to be like him still are in the ghettos.
Alright, I'm probably pissing into the wind here, but this sort of thinking really just bothers me. Maybe because it reminds me of a kind of naivete and rigid thinking that I was once guilty of - I don't know.
Here's the fundamental problem. By all appearances, you've only got one shot at life. (If you choose to believe something other than that, that is your prerogative and your gamble.) People have created a concept of "success" in life, and lots of different people from different backgrounds have filled this idea with their own narrative. In the modern, developed world, this narrative seems to be that "success" means ending up with a high paying job and a nice family. Really? Is this supposed to apply to everyone? Is everyone supposed to be happy with $150k/yr, a wife and kids, a fancy car, and a house with a white picket fence? In America, that's pretty much the definition of success. Fuck. That. Some people seem to be fine with that mental image. I'm not, and I'm sure that lots of other people aren't either. You only live once. It is your burden to make the most of the time that you have on this earth. True value does not stem from possessions but from experiences. Experiences are what shape us as human beings. Memory and experience are things that cannot ever be taken from us without destroying who we are. Your fancy car and your house might disappear when you lose your job or the stock market crashes; if you were once the greatest Starcraft 2 player in the world, it doesn't matter what other people think of your achievement. That STAYS with you.
And sure, I'm a conformist. I'm in college. I'm getting an undergrad in engineering. But I don't want the sports car or the white picket fence. My degree is a tool to ensure I can get the most out of life - because, sometimes, doing what you really want to do takes money. And, sometimes, it takes years and years to finally achieve your goals. But if you are passionate and persistent, you can create memories - not things - for yourself that will hold meaning and value forever. Memories go to the grave with you.
Be brave enough to create your own definition of success, or you will not be able to look back on your life with anything approximating satisfaction.
Did you direct American Beauty?
I've never seen it, and that's an awfully hand-waving dismissal. I'm not going to try to "save" you from what I perceive as your flawed way of thinking, but it's pretty terrible to see people eaten up by their conceptions of what they "should" do rather than what they really want. Take a minute to think about it. The real gift that most of us have received was being born into countries and situations that permit us to take just about whatever path we want with our lives. There's no guarantee of success - there never is - but we're the beneficiaries of a freedom that was not extended to the vast majority of our ancestors. It is a travesty that so many people confine themselves to a rigid and limited set of options for the life that they will only live once.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
What about actors, directors, musicians, authors and other entertainers? They are not 'contributing to the community' according to your definition there. Not to mention sports stars, e-sports is exactly the same as all these things its there for entertainment when watched.
But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers,
Thousands of people would beg to differ and millions more if we lump e-sports under its general category of sports.
Next time think before you post a load of garbage.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch etc would beg to differ.
Its people like you that are generally wasting their lives actually mate. Doctors/Lawyers and so on may have a fancy piece of paper and a "high paying sector job" but do you think they are all happy?
Why would you honestly think that people who do something different are wasting their lives? They love what they do, they work hard at what they do, and they make a living. Not everyone aspires to make a 6 figure salary and live in a penthouse apartment. Most people (the general working sector) only have a high school education, but they are happy with their families and friends.
Then as John's whole post was saying (the point you obviously completely missed) there are the people who do things outside the box (except e sports where they play inside the box >.>), and they are successful. It is the people who don't give a shit about being rich. The are so happy and are content with living off what they earn.
Its these people that move the world forward. The people that pioneer and revolutionise. Look at the names i mentioned above. None of them were your role model Doctors of Medicine, yet they are some of the most successful people in the world. Where are your doctors of medicine on these rich lists? More ironically, the most inspirational "doctors of medicine" are those that do the job for the passion, and not the money. The nobel prize winners that go to war torn countries, impoverished countries, and disease ridden parts of the world. They are underfunded, and underpaid, yet they persevere due to passion. Fred Hollows for example (look him up).
John's speech was an example of doing something for love, and not for greed or social acceptance. Do what you love, you only live once, so why waste your time on something your not happy with.
I can't believe i actually wrote this =/ Naiivty does that i guess
I know there exist exceptions to the rule. You could've named Lim Yo Hwan, too.
i could have, but according to you, he is wasting his life
Look. I just mentioned the extreme high risk that being a progamer takes. Of course it worked out well for LimYoHwan. But he said himself he was just hanging out in internet cafes instead of going to school... his parents thought he was wasting his life, too. Now imagine if he had a little less talent and didn't make it to the biggest eSport figure of all time. In fact you don't have to imagine it because there are tons of unknown unsuccessful ones...
Of course it's not only in progaming like that. Eminem being a successful rapper while thousands trying to be like him still are in the ghettos.
Alright, I'm probably pissing into the wind here, but this sort of thinking really just bothers me. Maybe because it reminds me of a kind of naivete and rigid thinking that I was once guilty of - I don't know.
Here's the fundamental problem. By all appearances, you've only got one shot at life. (If you choose to believe something other than that, that is your prerogative and your gamble.) People have created a concept of "success" in life, and lots of different people from different backgrounds have filled this idea with their own narrative. In the modern, developed world, this narrative seems to be that "success" means ending up with a high paying job and a nice family. Really? Is this supposed to apply to everyone? Is everyone supposed to be happy with $150k/yr, a wife and kids, a fancy car, and a house with a white picket fence? In America, that's pretty much the definition of success. Fuck. That. Some people seem to be fine with that mental image. I'm not, and I'm sure that lots of other people aren't either. You only live once. It is your burden to make the most of the time that you have on this earth. True value does not stem from possessions but from experiences. Experiences are what shape us as human beings. Memory and experience are things that cannot ever be taken from us without destroying who we are. Your fancy car and your house might disappear when you lose your job or the stock market crashes; if you were once the greatest Starcraft 2 player in the world, it doesn't matter what other people think of your achievement. That STAYS with you.
And sure, I'm a conformist. I'm in college. I'm getting an undergrad in engineering. But I don't want the sports car or the white picket fence. My degree is a tool to ensure I can get the most out of life - because, sometimes, doing what you really want to do takes money. And, sometimes, it takes years and years to finally achieve your goals. But if you are passionate and persistent, you can create memories - not things - for yourself that will hold meaning and value forever. Memories go to the grave with you.
Be brave enough to create your own definition of success, or you will not be able to look back on your life with anything approximating satisfaction.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
I find it funny that the two examples of contributing to the community you listed were highly payed CEOs and lawyers rofl
they make more contribution than a progamer will ever do in their life time
Thats completely debatable and impossible to argue because you cant quantify the exact average amount of contribution each profession makes, but what my point is that the two examples you used are on average thought of as professions which leach from society for their own personal gain, most lawyers charging insane amounts to defend you in court and in some cases keeping criminals from going to jail on technicalitys, ceos making decisions to fire tons of people/cutting peoples pay etc, i just found it funny that they were the examples, wasnt disagreeing or agreeing
On November 13 2010 22:55 ace246 wrote: FFS, Progamers only give entertainment to people who watch esports, not the general public. The reason why progamer's contributions aren't as much as your athlete, actor, etc is because the majority of the people in our society look down on gaming. Harsh? Yes indeed, but thats life, and as long as esports is looked down on by those people, it will never really be a contribution to society, which i think is unfair but hey thats life, you just gotta deal with it, whether you like it or not.
On November 13 2010 22:55 ace246 wrote: FFS, Progamers only give entertainment to people who watch esports, not the general public. The reason why progamer's contributions aren't as much as your athlete, actor, etc is because the majority of the people in our society look down on gaming. Harsh? Yes indeed, but thats life, and as long as esports is looked down on by those people, it will never really be a contribution to society, which i think is unfair but hey thats life, you just gotta deal with it, whether you like it or not.
Junkka, you're awesome. I have total respect for people who put their life on the line for living their dream. It must be so hard, and many people will fail, but if everyone is a naysayer we will never reach for the stars.
Encouraging kids to try to become progamers is pretty much saying "screw education, go hardcore game." Kids WANT to hear something like that, work and entertainment coupled together, a good excuse to skip school and the tough process of education. Once they've committed, they could find themselves reality biting back really hard. Kids just don't realise how insanely hard and demanding progaming would be untill its too late.
I love starcraft and am a hardcore gamer, but I would never trade education for progaming.
I'd rather live in a dump, work part time, and make just enough to get by than have any kind of "success" like that. And I'd prefer that option about as strongly as I'd prefer a delicious steak dinner over a poop sandwich.
and why not to be a Successful layer with happy family ? its not impossible. its like saying he got money but no heart... bullshit
I never said it was impossible. Just that if you have to sacrifice incredible amounts of time and barely have any kind of family, then I don't want that kind of success.
To the overachievers who work hard, get promoted, become important, make lots of money, and still have time for their family and time to enjoy their lives.... more power to them, they deserve it.
On November 13 2010 23:09 KaiserJohan wrote: Encouraging kids to try to become progamers is pretty much saying "screw education, go hardcore game." Kids WANT to hear something like that, work and entertainment coupled together, a good excuse to skip school and the tough process of education. Once they've committed, they could find themselves reality biting back really hard. Kids just don't realise how insanely hard and demanding progaming would be untill its too late.
I love starcraft and am a hardcore gamer, but I would never trade education for progaming.
im in the best highschool in finland doing IB program and im about 2100 in diamond europe ladder, also learning some programming atm.. I didnt screw school and i didnt screw other hobbies yet still u will never reach my lv in sc2...
On November 13 2010 22:55 ace246 wrote: FFS, Progamers only give entertainment to people who watch esports, not the general public. The reason why progamer's contributions aren't as much as your athlete, actor, etc is because the majority of the people in our society look down on gaming. Harsh? Yes indeed, but thats life, and as long as esports is looked down on by those people, it will never really be a contribution to society, which i think is unfair but hey thats life, you just gotta deal with it, whether you like it or not.
How do you quantify contributions to society? Boxer is one of the most well mannered guy I've seen. He signs autographs all the time and I see endless 'pictures with boxer!' threads from blizzcon. He's respectful of his opponents, is nearly always good mannered and I bet he influences ton of kids and people who watches him. Who's to say that a lawyer will contribute to society more than boxer?
how do you decide who contributes more to society? How do you compare a humanitarian who devotes his life to helping children in 3rd world country to Bill Gates who donates millions of dollars to Charity?
I think this speech pretty much says, do whatever the hell you want, nobody is stopping you, haters gonna hate, and those people are usually just jealous
On November 13 2010 22:55 ace246 wrote: FFS, Progamers only give entertainment to people who watch esports, not the general public. The reason why progamer's contributions aren't as much as your athlete, actor, etc is because the majority of the people in our society look down on gaming. Harsh? Yes indeed, but thats life, and as long as esports is looked down on by those people, it will never really be a contribution to society, which i think is unfair but hey thats life, you just gotta deal with it, whether you like it or not.
ummm. that was the whole point of John's speech.....
he's saying if it makes you happy, then do it. if you want it, have a go at it.... don't just go by what is "socially acceptable"
I think maybe devoting to gaming will definitely make you happy IN THE SHORT TERMS. But what about when you get to the time in your 30s where you start to get married (if your opting to do so) and have children and getting a job to provide the family? The existence of progaming is new to this world ( around 10~12 years, pretty much when brood war came out). But once you see the modern progamers retiring and trying to live a normal life, then we will get a good idea of how much devotion to games takes its toll on a person's life. But i don't see it being a benefit in the long-terms of one's life.
On November 13 2010 23:09 KaiserJohan wrote: Encouraging kids to try to become progamers is pretty much saying "screw education, go hardcore game." Kids WANT to hear something like that, work and entertainment coupled together, a good excuse to skip school and the tough process of education. Once they've committed, they could find themselves reality biting back really hard. Kids just don't realise how insanely hard and demanding progaming would be untill its too late.
I love starcraft and am a hardcore gamer, but I would never trade education for progaming.
He's just telling to not give up your passion whether or not it is "socially acceptable". He's not telling you to stop school for progaming.
On November 13 2010 23:09 KaiserJohan wrote: I love starcraft and am a hardcore gamer, but I would never trade education for progaming.
Heck, Qxc, Day9 and many other Programers are still students, often at reasonably decent universities as well.
I wasn't talking about those who can manage both, but those who quit education completely to focus purely on becoming a progamer.
If you can keep up with both, by all means go ahead!
this is small part of the population which brings phenomenal entertainment to us, and I give a lot of respect to them. I think you should pursue ur dream no matter expect, if its anti-society.
Everyone in this thread is getting way WAY WAY too far off the original point. Which was:
If you want to do something you love in life and you think it will make you happy, even if it isn't deemed as "correct" by society, then go for it. Life is too short to focus on something you hate, especially if you're doing it because other people said it was the right thing to do.
It has nothing to do with which job is better, how much money you make, what your friends think, whatever.
A perfect example is actually my situation in life, or should I say one of my best friends. He has a great job that coincidentally he got after dropping out of school at 15 (lol what a failure right?). He works as an engineer for rolls royce making airplane engines. He was making around £35k at the age of 20, was getting sent to university all expenses paid to get any qualification he wanted (which was related to his job ofc), had the oppertunity to move up the company extremely quickly if he so wished.
Now, alot of people would say "wow that's great he must be really happy" etc etc. the fact is though he CHOSE not to move up in the company, he knew that if he did so he would just get piled up with work so he stuck with his starting postion (which still makes the same (above average) wage in the UK). he loves his free time and as a group of friends we travel around alot, do so many different things which he couldn't do if he took on more responsibility in the company.
Now, heres the interesting part. We are actually planning to move to another country (with a better quality of living) because we don't want to do the 9 to 5 thing. afew of our friends have already moved, and we are planning to move with them in the summer next year. He is willing to give up his job, which would allow him to live comfortably with the chance of moving up in the company and making obcene ammounts of money, to go and move to another country and work for a relatively low wage. He is willing to do this because it would mean he had a relaxed life style, all our friends are there, the quality of living is so much higher and we could just do what we enjoy. We arn't naive, we know it won't be all roses, but it will be a hell of alot better than pissing away our lives in the UK.
Personally I have been to University, I have a degree in Computer Science. Wow big fucking deal, it has literally done nothing for my life, I would have been better off dropping out of school and getting some solid work experience. I have made the decision I don't want to have a 9 to 5 job working in the shitty UK, surrounded by idiots, bad weather, high taxes and generally bad standards of living.
Overall, I think the people arguing that John was "wrong" (the very concept that what he said is wrong is simply absurd by the way, since it's his opinion on his life) Havn't lived life or have a very naive closed view of how life works. They are most likely brainwashed adolescents who believe the only way to live life is to get a degree and progress up the career ladder. And it actually makes me sad, that kids these days think that is the only option they have in life. It's probably more a reflection of the poor teaching we have nowadays (Which isn't necessarily the teachers faults themselves) which leads to this sad state of affairs. That's a totally different topic though.
Anyway to return to the topic. Yes, the idea of moving to another country like that may fall flat on it's face. We are going there travelling for a year at least to see how it goes, we can always pull out and come back with our qualifications if things don't go as planned. But you know what? At least we can say that we tried to do something we just wanted to do.
Is pointless to discuss the meaning of life or the thing that make us truly haplessness. BECAUSE WE ALL DIFFERENT! Thats the first thing that the haters need to see. If you happing working 8hours per day doing a "normal" job good for you man. Just because other kid wants to be pro gamer/commenting games/ be a professional nerd with pc??? Who cares...
He is doing the things he love, you can hate but, wait? Who the fuck are you to say that he is doing a bad thing??? Is his life not yours, and if you spend much time thinking about the others life or judgment their lives you are just a "poor" soul and that is hard to cure.
.Nothing is impossible?? True but depends of type of person you are ^_^ Go fight for your dreams but dont forget allways KEEP IT REAL!
Yeah sakarabu is right, for those of you who keep fighting about what is a "wasted life", "money isn't everything" etc, its off topic and also a good word of advice: arguing over those issues or any other existentialism contruct for that matter will get you nowhere ( the arab-israeli conflict is a good example). Regarding Junkka's so-called "epic" speech, its too clique and too overrated, therefore this thread should be closed, or completely deleted if possible, i feel like an idiot for even writing in this thread ( damn you Junkka).
Junkka ;_; you are the stuff of legends. Well spoken.
[€dit]
I have a job that pays well, and I absolutely hate every moment. I wish I could just quit this stupid desk job and focus on things that would make me happy. But the world isn't made to please my sense of purpose .
On November 13 2010 23:36 ace246 wrote: Yeah sakarabu is right, for those of you who keep fighting about what is a "wasted life", "money isn't everything" etc, its off topic and also a good word of advice: arguing over those issues or any other existentialism contruct for that matter will get you nowhere ( the arab-israeli conflict is a good example). Regarding Junkka's so-called "epic" speech, its too clique and too overrated, therefore this thread should be closed, or completely deleted if possible, i feel like an idiot for even writing in this thread ( damn you Junkka).
It's not really off topic, actually. And why would it get you nowhere? That seems a bold claim. I'd think that an epiphany concerning your life philosophy would be very impactful. A lot of people do subscribe to the default social narrative of "success" without any real thought about why - and that was the point of the speech, I think.
being a gamer myself, i thought it was a great speech but i still dont agree with what hes saying, and it might wrongly inspire some easily influenced gamers and end up doing more harm then good
because for every nestea out there, there are 1,000 kids who followed their dreams and played their asses off against their parents wishes and every non gaming person they knew but got very little to show out of it.
so i think there should be a small addition in front of the speech like "if you had the rare talent (like insanely good like boxer/nada level) then you should follow your dreams... and on the other spectrum play because you enjoy the game but dont make it your life
but then again even top level players like naniwa (who got kicked out of home for playing too much games, then got kicked out of clan for his manners ended up with so little ). So imagine all the 1000wins 1000loses ladder players you see every now and then
On November 13 2010 23:48 Pandain wrote: Who is junkka and when did he give his epic speach
He's John, the translator for the post-game interviews, and he does other translation stuff and lots of behind the scenes stuff especially for the English speaking GSL community, like communicating stuff to Tasteless and Artosis, engaging with the community etc.
He gave the speech after the GSL2 finals were over, and after translating some of the post-match Korean interviews, when the Korean commentators were talking about random crap.
rofl, the overreaction to this speech is mind-boggling.
Grow up people, this guy has a passion, a passion I also have, and alot of people on this forum have, so get over it. If I died tomorrow I would die happy and defiantly not have a wasted life.
On November 13 2010 23:36 ace246 wrote: Yeah sakarabu is right, for those of you who keep fighting about what is a "wasted life", "money isn't everything" etc, its off topic and also a good word of advice: arguing over those issues or any other existentialism contruct for that matter will get you nowhere ( the arab-israeli conflict is a good example). Regarding Junkka's so-called "epic" speech, its too clique and too overrated, therefore this thread should be closed, or completely deleted if possible, i feel like an idiot for even writing in this thread ( damn you Junkka).
It's not really off topic, actually. And why would it get you nowhere? That seems a bold claim. I'd think that an epiphany concerning your life philosophy would be very impactful. A lot of people do subscribe to the default social narrative of "success" without any real thought about why - and that was the point of the speech, I think.
Philosophy in general does not contribute to society whatsoever. Since when did philosophers dictate what is right and wrong? Since when did the average joe listened to philosophers? As far as the majority is concerned, they don't care about philosophy because the majority dictates righteousness and the ideals of the majority and the philosophers and other think tanks don't match at all. I mean look at how shit our world is. Thinking that nationalism can coexist with peace, thinking that political madness is rational, thinking that our modern society is better than its predecessor. Really a fucking joke.
On November 13 2010 23:49 aLt)nirvana wrote: being a gamer myself, i thought it was a great speech but i still dont agree with what hes saying, and it might wrongly inspire some easily influenced gamers and end up doing more harm then good
because for every nestea out there, there are 1,000 kids who followed their dreams and played their asses off against their parents wishes and every non gaming person they knew but got very little to show out of it.
so i think there should be a small addition in front of the speech like "if you had the rare talent (like insanely good like boxer/nada level) then you should follow your dreams... and on the other spectrum play because you enjoy the game but dont make it your life
but then again even top level players like naniwa (who got kicked out of home for playing too much games, then got kicked out of clan for his manners ended up with so little ). So imagine all the 1000wins 1000loses ladder players you see every now and then
I think the message is more broadly applicable. Obviously, yes, esports could not support thousands of kids who just want to play games for a living (not that it's really so easy). However, for those people who are TRULY passionate and are willing to make the sacrifice, they should not hesitate - and that should apply to everything. You shouldn't be trying to become a doctor for the money if you would love being a plumber. If you really want to travel the world, don't indefinitely postpone it so that you can get a better job and a bigger house.
On November 13 2010 23:52 Dr. Nick wrote: rofl, the overreaction to this speech is mind-boggling.
Grow up people, this guy has a passion, a passion I also have, and alot of people on this forum have, so get over it. If I died tomorrow I would die happy and defiantly not have a wasted life.
Chill the fuck out, and play some SC2.
Amen, if you don't agree with him just leave it at that, you don't have to come here saying it's a waste of time and that he's wrong.
On November 13 2010 21:47 Xavv wrote: Definitely the most inspirational and heart touching speech I have EVER heard from somebody regarding esports.
Nothing is cooler than being proud of what you do and love, and I dont think anybody can put it better than he did.
Watch de Daily#100. It's the same thing but it lasts two hours (YEAH, I CRIED, SO WHAT? LOL). I'm so fucking happy for the success of all these people.
On November 13 2010 23:36 ace246 wrote: Yeah sakarabu is right, for those of you who keep fighting about what is a "wasted life", "money isn't everything" etc, its off topic and also a good word of advice: arguing over those issues or any other existentialism contruct for that matter will get you nowhere ( the arab-israeli conflict is a good example). Regarding Junkka's so-called "epic" speech, its too clique and too overrated, therefore this thread should be closed, or completely deleted if possible, i feel like an idiot for even writing in this thread ( damn you Junkka).
It's not really off topic, actually. And why would it get you nowhere? That seems a bold claim. I'd think that an epiphany concerning your life philosophy would be very impactful. A lot of people do subscribe to the default social narrative of "success" without any real thought about why - and that was the point of the speech, I think.
Philosophy in general does not contribute to society whatsoever. Since when did philosophers dictate what is right and wrong? Since when did the average joe listened to philosophers? As far as the majority is concerned, they don't care about philosophy because the majority dictates righteousness and the ideals of the majority and the philosophers and other think tanks don't match at all. I mean look at how shit our world is. Thinking that nationalism can coexist with peace, thinking that political madness is rational, thinking that our modern society is better than its predecessor. Really a fucking joke.
You are making the horrible mistake of confusing philosophy and philosophers. Everyone needs to think about their place in the universe and needs to be able to justify the life that they are leading to themselves in order to be satisfied.
On November 13 2010 22:55 ace246 wrote: FFS, Progamers only give entertainment to people who watch esports, not the general public. The reason why progamer's contributions aren't as much as your athlete, actor, etc is because the majority of the people in our society look down on gaming. Harsh? Yes indeed, but thats life, and as long as esports is looked down on by those people, it will never really be a contribution to society, which i think is unfair but hey thats life, you just gotta deal with it, whether you like it or not.
ummm. that was the whole point of John's speech.....
he's saying if it makes you happy, then do it. if you want it, have a go at it.... don't just go by what is "socially acceptable"
I think maybe devoting to gaming will definitely make you happy IN THE SHORT TERMS. But what about when you get to the time in your 30s where you start to get married (if your opting to do so) and have children and getting a job to provide the family? The existence of progaming is new to this world ( around 10~12 years, pretty much when brood war came out). But once you see the modern progamers retiring and trying to live a normal life, then we will get a good idea of how much devotion to games takes its toll on a person's life. But i don't see it being a benefit in the long-terms of one's life.
You may not feel that participating in esports is not a contribution to society, but you need to realize and remember all the old pro-gamers who participated when esports was just a fledgling idea. These individuals played the games that they loved and created a sub culture where professional competition through the use of video games could be viewed and enjoyed not just by the competitors but by lots of people worldwide. The tireless efforts of pro-gamers around the world has changed the shape of the future and esports is indeed growing and expanding. We're not just watching starcraft, but tons of the other games out there like fighters, fps, strategy games.
And from this emerged sponsors who have found a new source of marketing and revenue as well as many new tournaments emerging which not only creates more exposure, but also allows for the creation of jobs and opportunities for others. You're right that after these pro-gamers retire from gaming that they may need to move to a more normal job to support whatever lifestyle they want to maintain, but the current pro-gamers are doing their part to try and grow e-sports to the point where maybe they will be like professional athletes who can make lots of money during their stint and be able to retire without having to find another job. Then again most pro-athletes will later move on to coaching or commentating which may also be very possible if not already possible in the realm of esports.
Expand your thoughts and know that esports has made a firm mark in the culture of the world and it only seems to be growing. People will adjust their perception with time and there will always be those who will criticize you for not taking the safest choice. Those who ignore those voices and move on to do what they love should be commended even if it doesn't work out. Because at least they gave it a shot.
On November 13 2010 23:36 ace246 wrote: Yeah sakarabu is right, for those of you who keep fighting about what is a "wasted life", "money isn't everything" etc, its off topic and also a good word of advice: arguing over those issues or any other existentialism contruct for that matter will get you nowhere ( the arab-israeli conflict is a good example). Regarding Junkka's so-called "epic" speech, its too clique and too overrated, therefore this thread should be closed, or completely deleted if possible, i feel like an idiot for even writing in this thread ( damn you Junkka).
This thread went "off topic" when people like you came in and told everyone how to live their lives.
On November 13 2010 23:53 ace246 wrote:
Philosophy in general does not contribute to society whatsoever. Since when did philosophers dictate what is right and wrong? Since when did the average joe listened to philosophers? As far as the majority is concerned, they don't care about philosophy because the majority dictates righteousness and the ideals of the majority and the philosophers and other think tanks don't match at all. I mean look at how shit our world is. Thinking that nationalism can coexist with peace, thinking that political madness is rational, thinking that our modern society is better than its predecessor. Really a fucking joke.
Wow. Someday, I would like to know what it's like to be THIS MAD.
On November 13 2010 23:36 ace246 wrote: Yeah sakarabu is right, for those of you who keep fighting about what is a "wasted life", "money isn't everything" etc, its off topic and also a good word of advice: arguing over those issues or any other existentialism contruct for that matter will get you nowhere ( the arab-israeli conflict is a good example). Regarding Junkka's so-called "epic" speech, its too clique and too overrated, therefore this thread should be closed, or completely deleted if possible, i feel like an idiot for even writing in this thread ( damn you Junkka).
This thread went "off topic" when people like you came in and told everyone how to live their lives.
Philosophy in general does not contribute to society whatsoever. Since when did philosophers dictate what is right and wrong? Since when did the average joe listened to philosophers? As far as the majority is concerned, they don't care about philosophy because the majority dictates righteousness and the ideals of the majority and the philosophers and other think tanks don't match at all. I mean look at how shit our world is. Thinking that nationalism can coexist with peace, thinking that political madness is rational, thinking that our modern society is better than its predecessor. Really a fucking joke.
Wow. Someday, I would like to know what it's like to be THIS MAD.
I didnt tell anyone how to live their lives. I was telling people not to get off topic. And im not mad, im dissappointed, that people get off topic and think gaming has its place in our modern society, and how the speech is sooooooo overrated and clique.
Not sure why anyone would call this speech "epic". There was nothing about it that really stood out to me. Just a typical "follow your dreams" type of speech that you hear all the time. Maybe people are so excited about it because it's about eSports? But then again, it's not the first such speech about eSports or gaming either so the reaction puzzles me.
I do agree to some extent with the speech and about chasing dreams and being passionate about things. On the other hand, I think it's always important to keep reality in mind. Very few people will have the combination of talent, luck, dedication, etc. to be successful in chasing a dream like this and in the case of eSports, it may very well be a fleeting dream that leaves you with nothing to fall back on afterward if you place all of your hopes in it. It would be a wonderful thing if we could all do work we're passionate about, but that's also the type of thinking that leads to the current trend of 20 and 30-something year olds still living in their parents house and constantly switching majors at school because they just can't find that one thing they can see themselves doing and enjoying for the rest of their lives.
On November 14 2010 00:17 LegendaryZ wrote: Not sure why anyone would call this speech "epic". There was nothing about it that really stood out to me. Just a typical "follow your dreams" type of speech that you hear all the time. Maybe people are so excited about it because it's about eSports? But then again, it's not the first such speech about eSports or gaming either so the reaction puzzles me.
I do agree to some extent with the speech and about chasing dreams and being passionate about things. On the other hand, I think it's always important to keep reality in mind. Very few people will have the combination of talent, luck, dedication, etc. to be successful in chasing a dream like this and in the case of eSports, it may very well be a fleeting dream that leaves you with nothing to fall back on afterward if you place all of your hopes in it. It would be a wonderful thing if we could all do work we're passionate about, but that's also the type of thinking that leads to the current trend of 20 and 30-something year olds still living in their parents house and constantly switching majors at school because they just can't find that one thing they can see themselves doing and enjoying for the rest of their lives.
look at everyone postin in this thread son point fingers at them. put your hand over your mouth and giggle. them be bandwagnrs son seriously what the hell, this is nowhere near epic, considering its prepared.
I was fine until he used fanart as a measurement of personal success. I cringed hard when that came around.
At that point, I would have to omit that part of the speech because it reminded me of the vacuous mindset that reinforces Youtube celebrities like Chris Crocker. Fan art is cool, but waving it over someone seems like an extraordinarily weak way to justify your position, if not a touch subtractive.
Other than that, John pulled a Zenio on all his naysayers, and that's perfectly fine with me.
On November 14 2010 00:17 LegendaryZ wrote: Not sure why anyone would call this speech "epic". There was nothing about it that really stood out to me. Just a typical "follow your dreams" type of speech that you hear all the time. Maybe people are so excited about it because it's about eSports? But then again, it's not the first such speech about eSports or gaming either so the reaction puzzles me.
I do agree to some extent with the speech and about chasing dreams and being passionate about things. On the other hand, I think it's always important to keep reality in mind. Very few people will have the combination of talent, luck, dedication, etc. to be successful in chasing a dream like this and in the case of eSports, it may very well be a fleeting dream that leaves you with nothing to fall back on afterward if you place all of your hopes in it. It would be a wonderful thing if we could all do work we're passionate about, but that's also the type of thinking that leads to the current trend of 20 and 30-something year olds still living in their parents house and constantly switching majors at school because they just can't find that one thing they can see themselves doing and enjoying for the rest of their lives.
Maybe because of the fact that he stopped translating halfway through, hi-jacked the broadcast and told off everyone who had not treated him nicely while he was down and gave an emotional story of his life, all in front of tens of thousands of viewers?
Not sure why anyone would call this speech "epic". There was nothing about it that really stood out to me. Just a typical "follow your dreams" type of speech that you hear all the time. Maybe people are so excited about it because it's about eSports? But then again, it's not the first such speech about eSports or gaming either so the reaction puzzles me.
I do agree to some extent with the speech and about chasing dreams and being passionate about things. On the other hand, I think it's always important to keep reality in mind. Very few people will have the combination of talent, luck, dedication, etc. to be successful in chasing a dream like this and in the case of eSports, it may very well be a fleeting dream that leaves you with nothing to fall back on afterward if you place all of your hopes in it. It would be a wonderful thing if we could all do work we're passionate about, but that's also the type of thinking that leads to the current trend of 20 and 30-something year olds still living in their parents house and constantly switching majors at school because they just can't find that one thing they can see themselves doing and enjoying for the rest of their lives.
Sometimes it isn't just about what is said, but when and who says it that makes the impact. We've all come to expect inspirational and important speeches from political figures, and "celebrity" types because it is their job, or they are in a position to do that.
But when something like this comes out of nowhere from a person you really wouldn't expect it from the impact can be just as great if not greater to a lot of people. This isn't some millionaire telling you "hey follow your dreams, I did and now look at me!" In fact it was quite the opposite. It was just a simple guy saying you can be happy just doing what you enjoy even if you aren't going to be rich or famous you can still attain happiness. Yes he was talking about eSports in his speech but it can be applied to a really anything. The impact wasn't because of what was said, it is a speech we've heard in some shape or form over and over again, but it is just nice to hear it from a place you'd never expect watching an SC2 feed from Korea.
Lastly, I'd love to see your statistics on this growing trend of 20-30 something year olds sitting in their parents basement switching majors. The drop in college graduation rates in our country is not because of bunch of nerdy kids are sitting in their basements trying to be professional computer game players. Actually most of the kids I know that are living at home with their parents are there right now with a nice fancy degree from a good university they just can't find a job at the moment.
On November 14 2010 00:38 Sinborn wrote: I was fine until he used fanart as a measurement of personal success. I cringed hard when that came around.
At that point, I would have to omit that part of the speech because it reminded me of the vacuous mindset that reinforces Youtube celebrities like Chris Crocker. Fan art is cool, but waving it over someone seems like an extraordinarily weak way to justify your position, if not a touch subtractive.
Other than that, John pulled a Zenio on all his naysayers, and that's perfectly fine with me.
Afaik, he really likes that fanart, and is really really proud of it, so I think that using it as an example of personal succes is as good as anything.
On November 14 2010 00:17 LegendaryZ wrote: Not sure why anyone would call this speech "epic". There was nothing about it that really stood out to me. Just a typical "follow your dreams" type of speech that you hear all the time. Maybe people are so excited about it because it's about eSports? But then again, it's not the first such speech about eSports or gaming either so the reaction puzzles me.
I do agree to some extent with the speech and about chasing dreams and being passionate about things. On the other hand, I think it's always important to keep reality in mind. Very few people will have the combination of talent, luck, dedication, etc. to be successful in chasing a dream like this and in the case of eSports, it may very well be a fleeting dream that leaves you with nothing to fall back on afterward if you place all of your hopes in it. It would be a wonderful thing if we could all do work we're passionate about, but that's also the type of thinking that leads to the current trend of 20 and 30-something year olds still living in their parents house and constantly switching majors at school because they just can't find that one thing they can see themselves doing and enjoying for the rest of their lives.
Maybe because of the fact that he stopped translating halfway through, hi-jacked the broadcast and told off everyone who had not treated him nicely while he was down and gave an emotional story of his life, all in front of tens of thousands of viewers?
Telling off people who didn't believe in you (probably for completely logical reasons given the circumstances) and then giving a sob story about how nobody thought it was a good idea while you were sitting in your room for 2 1/2 years playing games all day is "epic"?
This is much more "Ha ha, I'm on TV and you're not." than a serious motivational or inspirational speech. It doesn't touch on the possibility or heartbreak of failure or the serious struggles that one may have to endure to achieve his dreams. It says nothing about sacrifice or hard work. It really doesn't sound any more epic than a kid bragging to his friends that he was right about something and they were wrong. The fact that one person even mentioned Martin Luther King Jr. in relation to that speech is just a travesty...
As for hi-jacking a broadcast and speaking his mind in front of many viewers? It's been done... see Kanye West.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
Professional Atheletes are the exact same. I mean, Tiger Woods makes >100 mil a year in endorsements for hitting a white ball into a hole 18 times/day. Yes, he does have charitable contributions, yet dont overlook the massive write off he can receive for his taxes. I play golf and used to play others so I am not hating on sports. Just saying, the same thing applies. Professional athletes get paid alot and truely do not contribute to their community whilst doing their work.
Not very nice to see people hating on Junkka. He poured his heart out in front of tens of thousands, it was touching. I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt a bit of personal pride in him for doing so.
Whenever people take happiness and joy from something, even if it's more happiness than you think should be taken, there are always people (or 'realists' -.-) that have to act as if they are a wake up call and decide to try and bring the mood down just because they want to.
I enjoyed that he said this, was a very nice touch .
I would really love to see this statement to be well known through out all E-sports scenes. Spread the word the man did touch me like no one ever did... (sounds weired... 0.o)
I think people are trying to look too deeply into his speech. I don't agree all of what he said, you really shouldn't just sit down and play video games all day hoping to make it pro, without any sort of backup plan, unless you are inceribly talented of course, but it still was a good speech.
"If you waste your time the way you enjoy, it's not a waste of time." That's how I'd summarize his speech and that's what I found to be the most important part of it.
Not sure why anyone would call this speech "epic". There was nothing about it that really stood out to me. Just a typical "follow your dreams" type of speech that you hear all the time. Maybe people are so excited about it because it's about eSports? But then again, it's not the first such speech about eSports or gaming either so the reaction puzzles me.
I do agree to some extent with the speech and about chasing dreams and being passionate about things. On the other hand, I think it's always important to keep reality in mind. Very few people will have the combination of talent, luck, dedication, etc. to be successful in chasing a dream like this and in the case of eSports, it may very well be a fleeting dream that leaves you with nothing to fall back on afterward if you place all of your hopes in it. It would be a wonderful thing if we could all do work we're passionate about, but that's also the type of thinking that leads to the current trend of 20 and 30-something year olds still living in their parents house and constantly switching majors at school because they just can't find that one thing they can see themselves doing and enjoying for the rest of their lives.
Sometimes it isn't just about what is said, but when and who says it that makes the impact. We've all come to expect inspirational and important speeches from political figures, and "celebrity" types because it is their job, or they are in a position to do that.
But when something like this comes out of nowhere from a person you really wouldn't expect it from the impact can be just as great if not greater to a lot of people. This isn't some millionaire telling you "hey follow your dreams, I did and now look at me!" In fact it was quite the opposite. It was just a simple guy saying you can be happy just doing what you enjoy even if you aren't going to be rich or famous you can still attain happiness. Yes he was talking about eSports in his speech but it can be applied to a really anything. The impact wasn't because of what was said, it is a speech we've heard in some shape or form over and over again, but it is just nice to hear it from a place you'd never expect watching an SC2 feed from Korea.
Lastly, I'd love to see your statistics on this growing trend of 20-30 something year olds sitting in their parents basement switching majors. The drop in college graduation rates in our country is not because of bunch of nerdy kids are sitting in their basements trying to be professional computer game players. Actually most of the kids I know that are living at home with their parents are there right now with a nice fancy degree from a good university they just can't find a job at the moment.
It's actually a well-documented generational trend and something that employers and parents are increasingly having to come to grips with.
It's not just that they can't find a job (while it's probably true at the moment), but it's also that the generation seems to have trouble sticking to a single job or a single major of study. Once they do find something to stick to, they generally do quite well, but it seems that it's taking longer and longer for Gen Y'ers to settle down than previous generations. It may certainly be a sense of entitlement we have as a generation as some have suggested or it may simply be the direction the world is going with the reduction of non-skilled labor and increase in jobs that require specialized degrees and/or education, it's pretty difficult to argue that it's not happening.
On November 14 2010 01:27 Thoramas wrote: I admire his guts for hijacking the stream to say that speech, E-Sports need more passionate people like him.
I hope someone recorded a video of that segment and uploads it to youtube.
It's not just that they can't find a job (while it's probably true at the moment), but it's also that the generation seems to have trouble sticking to a single job or a single major of study. Once they do find something to stick to, they generally do quite well, but it seems that it's taking longer and longer for Gen Y'ers to settle down than previous generations. It may certainly be a sense of entitlement we have as a generation as some have suggested or it may simply be the direction the world is going with the reduction of non-skilled labor and increase in jobs that require specialized degrees and/or education, it's pretty difficult to argue that it's not happening.
That is an article from 2007 out of Australia that is basically opinion based with little facts to support what your original claim was, a trend of people in their 20s and 30s living in their parents basement switching majors chasing wild eSports dreams.
As a matter of fact that article almost directly refutes what you wrote, did you simply do a google search and post the first semi relevant thing that came up to support your claim? I mean hell that thing is completely dated, it even references unemployment at a 30 year LOW.. yeah that is really the current state of employment in the world....
On November 14 2010 01:27 Thoramas wrote: I admire his guts for hijacking the stream to say that speech, E-Sports need more passionate people like him.
I hope someone recorded a video of that segment and uploads it to youtube.
This needs to be made into a wallpaper. Would make the December wallpaper thread kinda boring, but thats the price we pay for having a genius like Junkka in the community.
On November 14 2010 01:27 Thoramas wrote: I admire his guts for hijacking the stream to say that speech, E-Sports need more passionate people like him.
I hope someone recorded a video of that segment and uploads it to youtube.
On November 14 2010 01:27 Thoramas wrote: I admire his guts for hijacking the stream to say that speech, E-Sports need more passionate people like him.
I hope someone recorded a video of that segment and uploads it to youtube.
lol this thread and its 'contributions to society'.
Take away the paintings on the walls, take away the music from the stream, take away the Shakespeare and the Tolkien, take away the jewelers and the toymakers and the ballgames and the TV and the radio and show me your blasted society.
The real beauty of the speech is that it was so completely unexpected. After watching an amazing series, especially one as close as that and the early hour of the morning... I know that I personally felt very drained and excited all at the same time.
The speech had such beautiful timing. It was immediately apparent that John prepared it, long before his admission... he was waiting for a time to interject, to share something personal and emotional, to reach out to people across the whole world. He reached out to all of us, the entire international audience, and he told us that he believed in us, and he supports us.
A few minutes later, I believe he told us, the audience, that he loved us. It felt so painfully sincere. At the time, I was nearly in tears.
On November 14 2010 01:52 Slurgi wrote: The real beauty of the speech is that it was so completely unexpected. After watching an amazing series, especially one as close as that and the early hour of the morning... I know that I personally felt very drained and excited all at the same time.
The speech had such beautiful timing. It was immediately apparent that John prepared it, long before his admission... he was waiting for a time to interject, to share something personal and emotional, to reach out to people across the whole world. He reached out to all of us, the entire international audience, and he told us that he believed in us, and he supports us.
A few minutes later, I believe he told us, the audience, that he loved us. It felt so painfully sincere. At the time, I was nearly in tears.
On November 14 2010 01:27 Thoramas wrote: I admire his guts for hijacking the stream to say that speech, E-Sports need more passionate people like him.
I hope someone recorded a video of that segment and uploads it to youtube.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
lol what about Actors and rock stars they aren't saving lives? Other athletes the same thing but none of them are considered a waste in society and get paid tons of money to boot. why should some talentless disney bimbo get more money and respect for singing some shitty auto tune song then a pro gamer gets for winning a game?
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
lol lawyers, all they do is help criminals escape justice
Education is worthless if you hate what you are learning. If all you want is money then maybe a high paying job will work for you. But, id lose my mind if i had to be a doctor, no matter what the pay. Its just not for me. Its not how my brain works or wants to work, and i dont care how well respected and paid doctors are. Thank god some people want to do that kind of work, because there is no way in hell id ever do it. That goes for lawyers and scientists and engineers as well. If thats what you dig, then great go for it. But if you are doing it for money or to have others around you think "hey hes a doctor so he must be above average human being", you might be inheriting a curse that you wont be happy with once the initial happiness of success wears off.
The people who make a career out of non conventional interests do so because they love the work itself or the subject matter. They are obsessed with the work itself, not the prize at the end of the road. There was a troll earlier in this thread trying to feed everyone a reality sandwich but it was really just the bread he was serving up. He was saying that for every 1 success story there are hundreds of failures. That may be true to an extent, but anyone who goes deep, and i mean DEEP, into a field of interest that truly holds their interest, will find success on some level. Thats because no matter what that particular field is, there will always be people with extensive amount of dedication and experience needed. The reason why so many people fail at things is because they only see the payoff. The people for whom the payoff is the work itself never fail in the end.
Ive got friends who worked their ass off to have successful careers and went to college for years and years, got out, got high paying jobs, still hate their lives. Still wish they were someone else. Still envy passion and talent over money. Still struggle to impress women. Still struggle to make friends. And you want to know what? Still struggle to pay bills. So do what you love, but you have to love the work itself, not the payoff.
I thought the speech at the end was the best part of the finals.
Sure it had a good message, but IMHO it's not as great as everyone is hyping it up to be. I had visions of it being some braveheart-esque epic speech.
But hey if that floats your boat and you can really relate to that, I'm happy for you. Do what you are passionate about and what makes you happy, sounds like a good message to me.
On November 14 2010 00:38 Sinborn wrote: I was fine until he used fanart as a measurement of personal success. I cringed hard when that came around.
At that point, I would have to omit that part of the speech because it reminded me of the vacuous mindset that reinforces Youtube celebrities like Chris Crocker. Fan art is cool, but waving it over someone seems like an extraordinarily weak way to justify your position, if not a touch subtractive.
Other than that, John pulled a Zenio on all his naysayers, and that's perfectly fine with me.
I wouldn't go as far as him using it to measure his success. I think it was more like, "Hey, you told me I was wasting my time doing what I love, but now look at me. People appreciate what I'm doing, and someone even liked it enough to draw FANART of me." Honestly, when does anyone draw fanart of a person? It's not something you see every day.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
Heard CEOs for enterprises like Enron etc helped loads of people (hurr durr), such a great contribution! You're correct by stating that gaming doesn't save other people's lives, but neither does a lawyer.. Hell, think of it this way; everyday there's a friggin super-lawyer who helps a complete douchebag criminal from jailtime because he is good at his job... woop woop, that'll surely help the community!
honestly i dont know why people have made it sound like its some sort of heartbreaking awe-inspiring story
tbh the way john delivered it i think its pretty fucking hilarious LOL
sure he may have a valid point, but come on guys its john the translator, we love the guy because of his broken english and sense of humor, because he's a badass. that's why he has the fanart really
On November 14 2010 01:37 Quasimodo wrote: This needs to be made into a wallpaper. Would make the December wallpaper thread kinda boring, but thats the price we pay for having a genius like Junkka in the community.
On November 13 2010 21:49 butchji wrote: Sad thing is he most likely indeed is wasting his life. (Working for GOM won't pay the bills forever, eh? Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
So you definition of wasted life is anyone who doesn't have their PHD, lol ok bro.
That's just how the world rolls, "bro". Maybe he thinks he wasted his life when he is an unemployed 50yo, maybe it all worked out just fine. I don't know.
So your saying the "world rolls" by having people who have a phd, and people who don't, meaning people who don't can't get by and can't pay the bills and have wasted their life. Stop for a second and think about how ridiculous you are.
Stop with that PHD bullshit it was just a random achievement you can get far with in life... just replace it with anything else highly accepted by the society and/or gives you a lot of money.
Anyone who thinks PhDs make any money is either 12 or trolling. PhDs in the hard sciences could possibly make money if they don't go the academic route, but not more money than someone with half the education could make.
PhDs aren't even highly respected, really, because there is (at least in America) the idea that they aren't "real" doctors (in that they don't practice medicine).
Well I disagree about such thing that Nestea had great courage or something like that. It does not require much will to play video games, and everyone who loves SC2 could play it for hours and hours, but the problem is the most people does not have time for that, and there is more important things in life.
It's not like you were learning math 20 hours a day to get a diploma in the university or training whole day in the gym to break record or something. It's just a video game and playing it a lot does not require much will or "courage" for most of us.
On November 14 2010 04:24 Alpina wrote: Well I disagree about such thing that Nestea had great courage or something like that. It does not require much will to play video games, and everyone who loves SC2 could play it for hours and hours, but the problem is the most people does not have time for that, and there is more important things in life.
It's not like you were learning math 20 hours a day to get a diploma in the university or training whole day in the gym to break record or something. It's just a video game and playing it a lot does not require much will for most of us.
... i don't know if you're trolling or not :/ playing to train competitively is quite different from casually gaming for 10-15 hours if you have "nothing to do".
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. .
No they don't. Those positions are just as culturally constructed as "progaming," they are just accepted by the national/international community as being essentially.
If all the lawyers, CEOs, and other office jobs disappeared tonight, humanity would continue on as it has for thousands of years. The fact is that many people don't seem to realize that the professions we hold in esteem today were considered trash in the past (see lawyers, actors, etc.).
90 percent of the jobs today (especially in America, the land where nothing is manufactured anymore) are as artificial and unessential as anything creative or resulting from the advanced technology and standards of living we have today. The stock market, for instance, is an entire industry (encompassing the other industries) based on trading imaginary bits of paper that are worth an amount of other imaginary bits of paper that have value because people have decided that they have value; despite the apparent wealth and glamor of the successful stock traders/hedge fund people/ etc., they useless, except in the way that we have given them use through rationalizing their existence.
So let's just rationalize progaming as being useful.
On November 14 2010 04:24 Alpina wrote: Well I disagree about such thing that Nestea had great courage or something like that. It does not require much will to play video games, and everyone who loves SC2 could play it for hours and hours, but the problem is the most people does not have time for that, and there is more important things in life.
It's not like you were learning math 20 hours a day to get a diploma in the university or training whole day in the gym to break record or something. It's just a video game and playing it a lot does not require much will for most of us.
... i don't know if you're trolling or not :/ playing to train competitively is quite different from casually gaming for 10-15 hours if you have "nothing to do".
...
Maybe there is little difference but I don't think there is much in terms of difficulty. I mean you still need to sit and play.
On November 14 2010 04:24 Alpina wrote: Well I disagree about such thing that Nestea had great courage or something like that. It does not require much will to play video games, and everyone who loves SC2 could play it for hours and hours, but the problem is the most people does not have time for that, and there is more important things in life.
It's not like you were learning math 20 hours a day to get a diploma in the university or training whole day in the gym to break record or something. It's just a video game and playing it a lot does not require much will or "courage" for most of us.
Although you are pretty much wrong on everything you wrote, I'm going to ignore that and instead point out that you missed the entire point of the speech.
He doesn't have courage because he played the game and trained like every other pro gamer (although that certainly isn't "lol you casually play videogames", it's alot harder than you seem to think). He had courage because he is 29 years old. He trained hard for 10 years playing starcraft while everyone around him said he was wasting his time. Like John said, even in Korea it isn't deemed normal to focus so much on a career as a pro gamer. People probably told him he was too old, as they believe after you hit about 24 your career as a gamer is over, but he kept playing. He did what he enjoyed and trained hard because he felt he could still win, even though people told him he was wasting his time.
When everyone around you is telling you you are wasting time, even laughing at you, and you can ignore them and keep training and focusing on what you enjoy, eventually winning the GSL. THAT is what takes courage.
On November 14 2010 04:24 Alpina wrote: Well I disagree about such thing that Nestea had great courage or something like that. It does not require much will to play video games, and everyone who loves SC2 could play it for hours and hours, but the problem is the most people does not have time for that, and there is more important things in life.
It's not like you were learning math 20 hours a day to get a diploma in the university or training whole day in the gym to break record or something. It's just a video game and playing it a lot does not require much will or "courage" for most of us.
Although you are pretty much wrong on everything you wrote, I'm going to ignore that and instead point out that you missed the entire point of the speech.
He doesn't have courage because he played the game and trained like every other pro gamer (although that certainly isn't "lol you casually play videogames", it's alot harder than you seem to think). He had courage because he is 29 years old. He trained hard for 10 years playing starcraft while everyone around him said he was wasting his time. Like John said, even in Korea it isn't deemed normal to focus so much on a career as a pro gamer. People probably told him he was too old, as they believe after you hit about 24 your career as a gamer is over, but he kept playing. He did what he enjoyed and trained hard because he felt he could still win, even though people told him he was wasting his time.
When everyone around you is telling you you are wasting time, even laughing at you, and you can ignore them and keep training and focusing on what you enjoy, eventually winning the GSL. THAT is what takes courage.
Ahh I enjoyed the thread but I couldn't help read the arguments of butchji. He's right but he's going about it a very narcissicist way. Not just anyone should go after being a pro gamer I get it but to compare it to the highest paying jobs etc. There's no point.
The speech was really great but I'm afraid a lot of naive people will take it too literally. Not everyone can just play video games and I'm afraid some people will think they have passion and drive when in fact they just enjoy video games as a casual pasttime.
On November 14 2010 05:11 adeezy wrote: Ahh I enjoyed the thread but I couldn't help read the arguments of butchji. He's right but he's going about it a very narcissicist way. Not just anyone should go after being a pro gamer I get it but to compare it to the highest paying jobs etc. There's no point.
True. But I doubt John meant "EVERYONE SHOULD GO TRY AND BE A PROGAMER NOW". He just meant, in general, you have to be happy with what you are doing in life. Do something because YOU want to, not because someone told you to do it.
It wasn't even about becoming a pro gamer, which seems to be what everyone is focusing on. The whole point of the speech was that you shouldn't let other people dictate what you do in life. Be happy with who you are, and try and find something you really love doing. If you can combine something you love with your work then you are going to be a very happy person.
I think people are totally overreacted with the whole "OMG EVERYONE IS GOING TO RUIN THEIR LIVES NOW AND TRY AND BECOME PRO", come on give us some credit, i'm sure people are smart enough that they know when they are good enough to be pro or not. If they are high skilled, are placing high in alot of online tournaments etc and in the back of their minds they think they have the willpower and dedication to become pro then they can take it slow, they don't have to suddenly drop out of University so they can practice. If they are making some money and join a team, and start doing well, THEN they can make the decision on what steps they want to take in regards to taking it up full time.
On November 14 2010 04:24 Alpina wrote: Well I disagree about such thing that Nestea had great courage or something like that. It does not require much will to play video games, and everyone who loves SC2 could play it for hours and hours, but the problem is the most people does not have time for that, and there is more important things in life.
It's not like you were learning math 20 hours a day to get a diploma in the university or training whole day in the gym to break record or something. It's just a video game and playing it a lot does not require much will for most of us.
... i don't know if you're trolling or not :/ playing to train competitively is quite different from casually gaming for 10-15 hours if you have "nothing to do".
...
Its a clear trolling attempt man, I don't know how anyone can think that... rofl
I always liked Jon, but as he was starting it, I was getting ready to roll my eyes thinking "Oh great, a cheesy follow your dreams bit." To my surprise... I can't explain, but that was so well thought out and sincere it was a really epic way to close the broadcast, esp to us not as familiar or emotionally invested in Nestea personally. Even reading the transcript doesnt do it justice, something about hearing it in Jon's gentle voice and flawed English -- being economical with the words, but able to express such deep sentiments completely.
On November 14 2010 04:24 Alpina wrote: Well I disagree about such thing that Nestea had great courage or something like that. It does not require much will to play video games, and everyone who loves SC2 could play it for hours and hours, but the problem is the most people does not have time for that, and there is more important things in life.
It's not like you were learning math 20 hours a day to get a diploma in the university or training whole day in the gym to break record or something. It's just a video game and playing it a lot does not require much will or "courage" for most of us.
It's not having the courage to sit and play a game, it's having courage to try his life at progaming, have a lackluster career for 10 years, but still persevere. His friends and family probably tried to discourage him for years, but he kept it in his heart and he's now like 29 and finally winning a tourney. He had the courage to pursue such dream, that's all.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. .
No they don't. Those positions are just as culturally constructed as "progaming," they are just accepted by the national/international community as being essentially.
If all the lawyers, CEOs, and other office jobs disappeared tonight, humanity would continue on as it has for thousands of years. The fact is that many people don't seem to realize that the professions we hold in esteem today were considered trash in the past (see lawyers, actors, etc.).
90 percent of the jobs today (especially in America, the land where nothing is manufactured anymore) are as artificial and unessential as anything creative or resulting from the advanced technology and standards of living we have today. The stock market, for instance, is an entire industry (encompassing the other industries) based on trading imaginary bits of paper that are worth an amount of other imaginary bits of paper that have value because people have decided that they have value; despite the apparent wealth and glamor of the successful stock traders/hedge fund people/ etc., they useless, except in the way that we have given them use through rationalizing their existence.
So let's just rationalize progaming as being useful.
you're a fucking idiot aren't you? my dad is a lawyer and the reason he became one was because in his best friend was framed for 2nd degree assault he never committed. In fact he was with my dad at the time but somehow the system found the evidence insubstantial and he couldn't afford a lawyer. He served 7 years. Go take a look in the mirror before you start calling people trash.
I was fine until he used fanart as a measurement of personal success. I cringed hard when that came around.
At that point, I would have to omit that part of the speech because it reminded me of the vacuous mindset that reinforces Youtube celebrities like Chris Crocker. Fan art is cool, but waving it over someone seems like an extraordinarily weak way to justify your position, if not a touch subtractive.
Other than that, John pulled a Zenio on all his naysayers, and that's perfectly fine with me.
I wouldn't go as far as him using it to measure his success. I think it was more like, "Hey, you told me I was wasting my time doing what I love, but now look at me. People appreciate what I'm doing, and someone even liked it enough to draw FANART of me." Honestly, when does anyone draw fanart of a person? It's not something you see every day.
I know what he's trying to say and I agree with him, but on its face, it's a weird and awkward means of establishing a conclusion. It interrupted the flow of the speech for me, basically. If he would have piece-by-piece'd the reasoning of why the fanart is a key distinction, I'd be more at ease. Strategically, I found the fan-art example to be the hardest element to translate to a contrary mindset overall and it caused me to pause and remind myself that realistically, SC2 is fundamentally about fun, passion and self-expression, one of which is art. God, some of those signs have baller drawings. John is no exception. We're in a crowd on the internet, we can, theoretically, draw better signs with more direct exposure to the intended recipient.
Basically, fanart isn't common in applications of people because of a lot of uncontrollable factors. You have to be in an occupation that has a reasonable amount of visibility, have competent artists with time, your occupation is linked to entertainment, and so on. Given the nature of the job market overall, you don't have a lot of these kinds of jobs with that kind of audience. I would venture to conclude that while John's fanart is god-tier and was drawn from love, it's exceedingly difficult to get other people to draw, no pun intended, the same amount of worth due to being rare out of circumstance or career choice.
I'm really talking about the moment, of course. Now, I can extrapolate a billion positive things that are implied and reinforced by context. Still, I can't shake this feeling that although this speech is about community, I still prefer to call this speech John's victory speech. In a weird paradox, by him reaching out to us, he glorifies himself in the most positive and flawless manner possible.
On November 14 2010 01:27 Thoramas wrote: I admire his guts for hijacking the stream to say that speech, E-Sports need more passionate people like him.
I hope someone recorded a video of that segment and uploads it to youtube.
I just watched the final game again and heard that speech for the second time.
Oh man... It was even more awesome the second time and I'm totally joining his fan club :D
He had perfect timing on the speech aswell! Nothing important was happening during the speech. And another thing, the commentators (BOTH) kind of lost it after that speech. I totally understand that.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. .
No they don't. Those positions are just as culturally constructed as "progaming," they are just accepted by the national/international community as being essentially.
If all the lawyers, CEOs, and other office jobs disappeared tonight, humanity would continue on as it has for thousands of years. The fact is that many people don't seem to realize that the professions we hold in esteem today were considered trash in the past (see lawyers, actors, etc.).
90 percent of the jobs today (especially in America, the land where nothing is manufactured anymore) are as artificial and unessential as anything creative or resulting from the advanced technology and standards of living we have today. The stock market, for instance, is an entire industry (encompassing the other industries) based on trading imaginary bits of paper that are worth an amount of other imaginary bits of paper that have value because people have decided that they have value; despite the apparent wealth and glamor of the successful stock traders/hedge fund people/ etc., they useless, except in the way that we have given them use through rationalizing their existence.
So let's just rationalize progaming as being useful.
you're a fucking idiot aren't you? my dad is a lawyer and the reason he became one was because in his best friend was framed for 2nd degree assault he never committed. In fact he was with my dad at the time but somehow the system found the evidence insubstantial and he couldn't afford a lawyer. He served 7 years. Go take a look in the mirror before you start calling people trash.
So what? The fact that your dad's friend ('s college roommate's brother's cousin's dog?) couldn't afford a lawyer is a testament to the fact that lawyers are overpaid and useless, and should return to their former status of being affordable and knowing their place in society.
my sound was messed but I got the jist of it when he said it. Actually thought he was translating what nestea was saying, then found out later it was him. Never expected that from the translator lol. Overall it was a great speech, dont let others tell you what to do or not to do, just do what you love to do if you are lucky enough too.
Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most. Gaming is also easier to have a passion for than other things because it is generally WAY more addicting. Mass gaming/training is 100x easier than seriously trying to train for a sport (at almost any level) or going into a very difficult field (graduate work in sciences/math), and if time was permitting I could totally sit down and play 8+ hours a day. It would be great if most people could find enjoyment in something that also is beneficial to society. Alas...
On November 14 2010 07:56 PROJECTILE wrote: Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most. Gaming is also easier to have a passion for than other things because it is generally WAY more addicting. Mass gaming/training is 100x easier than seriously trying to train for a sport (at almost any level) or going into a very difficult field (graduate work in sciences/math), and if time was permitting I could totally sit down and play 8+ hours a day. It would be great if most people could find enjoyment in something that also is beneficial to society. Alas...
So how's the weather up there on your pedestal, along with your 8 figure salary that you get for helping the less fortunate people on the earth?..
Can you give me some AKAs please of your gaming career so I can take a look at your experience with the top level of a seriously competitive game - just so I can clarify that what you claim to be fact you can back up with experience. I mean, you can't just make sweeping statements about the difficulty of something without actually EVER being in the situation... Right? That would just mean you're talking total bullshit, and you wouldn't be doing that now would you!?
And also, what sports have you played at an international level - so we can compare your experiences as a pro-gamer to your experiences of a pro-athelete and come to our own conclusions, thanks a lot.
On November 14 2010 07:56 PROJECTILE wrote: Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most. Gaming is also easier to have a passion for than other things because it is generally WAY more addicting. Mass gaming/training is 100x easier than seriously trying to train for a sport (at almost any level) or going into a very difficult field (graduate work in sciences/math), and if time was permitting I could totally sit down and play 8+ hours a day. It would be great if most people could find enjoyment in something that also is beneficial to society. Alas...
So how's the weather up there on your pedestal, along with your 8 figure salary that you get for helping the less fortunate people on the earth?..
Can you give me some AKAs please of your gaming career so I can take a look at your experience with the top level of a seriously competitive game - just so I can clarify that what you claim to be fact you can back up with experience. I mean, you can't just make sweeping statements about the difficulty of something without actually EVER being in the situation... Right? That would just mean you're talking total bullshit, and you wouldn't be doing that now would you!?
And also, what sports have you played at an international level - so we can compare your experiences as a pro-gamer to your experiences of a pro-athelete and come to our own conclusions, thanks a lot.
weather's great. You obviously don't understand how competition works (and why sports are vastly more difficult than starcraft or any other game). I'll give you a hint: the difficulty in almost any activity has little to do with the inherent difficulty of what that activity is. I'll let you find out on your own.
Until you figure out that bit of enlightening information, I will ignore your further posts.
Wow guys. If you really have a low view on Esports thats fine, but don't try and bring down the people that think otherwise. Many progamers have done very well for themselves, and I understand not everyone is a Boxer, but to say it's a waste is stupid. Esports is still in it's infancy, and as we enter a more and more technological age I can only see it getting bigger.
On November 14 2010 07:56 PROJECTILE wrote: Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most. Gaming is also easier to have a passion for than other things because it is generally WAY more addicting. Mass gaming/training is 100x easier than seriously trying to train for a sport (at almost any level) or going into a very difficult field (graduate work in sciences/math), and if time was permitting I could totally sit down and play 8+ hours a day. It would be great if most people could find enjoyment in something that also is beneficial to society. Alas...
So how's the weather up there on your pedestal, along with your 8 figure salary that you get for helping the less fortunate people on the earth?..
Can you give me some AKAs please of your gaming career so I can take a look at your experience with the top level of a seriously competitive game - just so I can clarify that what you claim to be fact you can back up with experience. I mean, you can't just make sweeping statements about the difficulty of something without actually EVER being in the situation... Right? That would just mean you're talking total bullshit, and you wouldn't be doing that now would you!?
And also, what sports have you played at an international level - so we can compare your experiences as a pro-gamer to your experiences of a pro-athelete and come to our own conclusions, thanks a lot.
weather's great. You obviously don't understand how competition works (and why sports are vastly more difficult than starcraft or any other game). I'll give you a hint: the difficulty in almost any activity has little to do with the inherent difficulty of what that activity is. I'll let you find out on your own.
Until you figure out that bit of enlightening information, I will ignore your further posts.
weather's great. You obviously don't understand how competition works (and why sports are vastly more difficult than starcraft or any other game). I'll give you a hint: the difficulty in almost any activity has little to do with the inherent difficulty of what that activity is. I'll let you find out on your own.
Until you figure out that bit of enlightening information, I will ignore your further posts.
You didn't actually answer my questions, though. So i'll take that as a: you're a typical armchair intellectual who knows everything about everything - but actually has NOTHING to back up what you say.
Weird how I got you SPOT ON with one guess isn't it? Almost like you are some kind of stereotype, I also could of guessed you were American just by reading your posts.
Thanks for showing me how easy you people are to figure out.
On November 14 2010 07:56 PROJECTILE wrote: Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most. Gaming is also easier to have a passion for than other things because it is generally WAY more addicting. Mass gaming/training is 100x easier than seriously trying to train for a sport (at almost any level) or going into a very difficult field (graduate work in sciences/math), and if time was permitting I could totally sit down and play 8+ hours a day. It would be great if most people could find enjoyment in something that also is beneficial to society. Alas...
^idiot right here. has obviously never actually carried out anything of that which he so eloquently speaks. your speculations from a computer chair are oh so sage. mass gaming seems easier because you were probably exposed to it from a young age. ask somebody who was driven into a rigid life of exercise what they would find easier to practice.
games don't cause any sort of chemical addiction. there's no bodily withdrawal when you stop gaming. it might find a niche in your daily life that you would struggle to plug, but that's about it. you might also be aware that endorphins are released during exercise. sound like a toasty incentive to you? people should do what they are passionate about. people are passionate about different things. passion is cultivated in so many different ways you couldn't even begin to understand. it's no where near as simple as, 'because playing games is fun for me, i will play games for a living'. if you were actually passionate about something, you might understand.
oh alas... if only these sub-human peons would contribute to society like *I* do. i spread my wisdom and teach others how the world works. you'll snap out of this 'high and mighty' phase before long, don't worry.
If you have the will to do something you really love. If you have that sort of passion, just go and do your best. Shouldn't care what people think of you.
I cant believe people are actually arguing about ridiculous things like this. Junkka spoke from the heart in his speech about something that we all love; e-sports(if you dont then why would you hang around on this website?). Sure he doesnt save people from burning buildings or perform brain surgery for a living, but who cares? We have other people who does that. He has pursued something that he truly loves. And its pretty obvious that the speech wasnt about you dropping everything you're doing to get into the pro gaming scene, the speech was about personal happiness and self satisfaction. Not every human being has the same life goals they want to achieve(thank god) and belittling him and other people working on the e-sports scene and saying what they do is insignificant is just ignorant.
E-sports is an entertainment business, just like "insert any pro league of any sport" is. And if they can entertain just one single person on the entire planet then they have succeeded in their goal to bring entertainment to the viewer(although a bigger crowd is definitely more ideal).
As far as Junkka himself is concerned. I personally have a lot of respect for him, not because he saves kittens from trees or puts bad guys in jail, but because he can truly say that he loves his job and is proud of his contribution to the e-sports scene.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
lol lawyers, all they do is help criminals escape justice
That doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen every now and then. But you gotta realise that our law system isn't perfect but the lawyers, judges etc do their best to make it as righteous as possible.
On November 14 2010 07:56 PROJECTILE wrote: Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most.
While this is technically true, you're barking up the wrong tree. There were many times in my life where I was told that what I was doing was the "wrong" way and that I would never get very far with my passions in life (these are not even esports related). I was smart enough to ignore them and do what I thought was right. Over the last 15 years I've built a pretty successful business out of it, on my terms. While this certainly doesn't apply to everyone, what Junkka said is right (and goes beyond gaming). Shoot for your dreams. You never know unless you try. All you're doing is asking people to give up before they even do so. That's not constructive in the slightest.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. I don't think its right to say that someone "wasted" their life because they aren't doing something which has high salary like progaming which doesn't have large paychecks (unless your one of the best) but because for what its worth, its a game, it doesn't save people's lives or help lives (unless you consider gaming as helping lives). But just because butchji's reason is wrong, doesn't mean progamers are as deserving of respect like doctors, lawyers, etc. A game is still a game, lets not overrate it please.
lol what about Actors and rock stars they aren't saving lives? Other athletes the same thing but none of them are considered a waste in society and get paid tons of money to boot. why should some talentless disney bimbo get more money and respect for singing some shitty auto tune song then a pro gamer gets for winning a game?
Because SC2 is only half as difficult as BW and no one is ranting about how BW progamers deserve the recognition as actors,athletes, etc. This whole idea of SC2 progamers being underrated for devoting their life to game is instigated by people who are biased to sc2, but claim righteous. I do think maybe in the future, when gsl isn't accessible to some journalist that plays sc2 as a hobby, sc2 progamers should deserve recognition as those actors and rockstars.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. .
No they don't. Those positions are just as culturally constructed as "progaming," they are just accepted by the national/international community as being essentially.
If all the lawyers, CEOs, and other office jobs disappeared tonight, humanity would continue on as it has for thousands of years. The fact is that many people don't seem to realize that the professions we hold in esteem today were considered trash in the past (see lawyers, actors, etc.).
90 percent of the jobs today (especially in America, the land where nothing is manufactured anymore) are as artificial and unessential as anything creative or resulting from the advanced technology and standards of living we have today. The stock market, for instance, is an entire industry (encompassing the other industries) based on trading imaginary bits of paper that are worth an amount of other imaginary bits of paper that have value because people have decided that they have value; despite the apparent wealth and glamor of the successful stock traders/hedge fund people/ etc., they useless, except in the way that we have given them use through rationalizing their existence.
So let's just rationalize progaming as being useful.
If all the lawyers, CEOs, and other office jobs disappeared tonight, we would have the biggest global depression ever. Our economy would go down the drains, but if sc2 progaming was to dissappear, it wouldn't matter much to the world, (apart from the fanboys who enjoy progame scene but they are a minority)
My heart nearly got caught in my throat when I heard Junkka's speech. I'm so happy for him and so happy for GomTV that they have people like Junkka, Artosis, and Tasteless to represent them.
weather's great. You obviously don't understand how competition works (and why sports are vastly more difficult than starcraft or any other game). I'll give you a hint: the difficulty in almost any activity has little to do with the inherent difficulty of what that activity is. I'll let you find out on your own.
Until you figure out that bit of enlightening information, I will ignore your further posts.
You didn't actually answer my questions, though. So i'll take that as a: you're a typical armchair intellectual who knows everything about everything - but actually has NOTHING to back up what you say.
Weird how I got you SPOT ON with one guess isn't it? Almost like you are some kind of stereotype, I also could of guessed you were American just by reading your posts.
Thanks for showing me how easy you people are to figure out.
Your questions are irrelevant to my post. And the odds of you correctly guessing my personality are extremely slim, regardless of what personality metric you use Nice (read: terrible) try, though.
On November 14 2010 07:56 PROJECTILE wrote: Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most. Gaming is also easier to have a passion for than other things because it is generally WAY more addicting. Mass gaming/training is 100x easier than seriously trying to train for a sport (at almost any level) or going into a very difficult field (graduate work in sciences/math), and if time was permitting I could totally sit down and play 8+ hours a day. It would be great if most people could find enjoyment in something that also is beneficial to society. Alas...
^idiot right here. has obviously never actually carried out anything of that which he so eloquently speaks. your speculations from a computer chair are oh so sage. mass gaming seems easier because you were probably exposed to it from a young age. ask somebody who was driven into a rigid life of exercise what they would find easier to practice.
games don't cause any sort of chemical addiction. there's no bodily withdrawal when you stop gaming. it might find a niche in your daily life that you would struggle to plug, but that's about it. you might also be aware that endorphins are released during exercise. sound like a toasty incentive to you? people should do what they are passionate about. people are passionate about different things. passion is cultivated in so many different ways you couldn't even begin to understand. it's no where near as simple as, 'because playing games is fun for me, i will play games for a living'. if you were actually passionate about something, you might understand.
oh alas... if only these sub-human peons would contribute to society like *I* do. i spread my wisdom and teach others how the world works. you'll snap out of this 'high and mighty' phase before long, don't worry.
^idiot right here. I have, thank you very much. games are addicting. For proof of concept, take a look at MMORPGs, and how they give rewards out to players. However, I am still open to peer-reviewed journal articles that prove games have no addictive properties. However, currently there exists some evidence that video games certainly are addicting.
All the arguing that happened/is happening in this thread is pointless.
It was an amazing speech by Junkka, I wish I would've stayed up for it but after game 7 I was beat. Its pretty amazing that he decided to say it, its not something you expect to hear watching a SC2 stream. He felt it was important to let people know how he felt and I'm glad he did. He's got a job he loves and wants people to share that same feeling, takes an amazing person to want to pass that along to thousands.
I think the way jon delivered it, and the timing of it was just gosu <3. i sure hope everyone realizes that you can replace "games" and "esports" with anything they love *(well up until the gomtv,tastelss, artosis, etc. supports you part lol). keep on truckin' gamers!
I made that speech because that was how I felt. I heard producer say on my headphone "what the hell are you rambling about?".lol
As much I'm glad that many people like what I said I do not expect nor want everyone to agree to it. The message I was trying to give out is simple. It's your life so do what you feel is right and dont let anyone, including some crazy translator guy make you change your view. Although I made the speech relating to game and esports since I was inspired by nestea, I wasnt trying to say that one should give up education or do nothing but play game. We cant just have gamers, clowns, artists and rock stars. We need doctors, lawyers and politicians. Well maybe little less politicians. It's the very diversity of opinions, values and views that makes the world all the more interesting.
I have rambled on but I think Slayersboxer said all I wanted to say in his interview. “If you find something you like just go all in and never look back”
Moderation, as with everything, Junkka. Anyone thinking clearly should realize you'd agree as much It's great hearing, though. It made me feel alot better about my recent educational switch -- do something you like, don't do something you're pressured to do. Be happy with your life.
On November 14 2010 19:53 JunkkaGom wrote: I made that speech because that was how I felt. I heard producer say on my headphone "what the hell are you rambling about?".lol
As much I'm glad that many people like what I said I do not expect nor want everyone to agree to it. The message I was trying to give out is simple. It's your life so do what you feel is right and dont let anyone, including some crazy translator guy make you change your view. Although I made the speech relating to game and esports since I was inspired by nestea, I wasnt trying to say that one should give up education or do nothing but play game. We cant just have gamers, clowns, artists and rock stars. We need doctors, lawyers and politicians. Well maybe little less politicians. It's the very diversity of opinions, values and views that makes the world all the more interesting.
I have rambled on but I think Slayersboxer said all I wanted to say in his interview. “If you find something you like just go all in and never look back”
Don't worry dude. Only fools could take what you said negatively. You stuck your neck out to make a point, and the majority of us appreciate it. Keep up the great work!
On November 14 2010 07:56 PROJECTILE wrote: Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most. Gaming is also easier to have a passion for than other things because it is generally WAY more addicting. Mass gaming/training is 100x easier than seriously trying to train for a sport (at almost any level) or going into a very difficult field (graduate work in sciences/math), and if time was permitting I could totally sit down and play 8+ hours a day. It would be great if most people could find enjoyment in something that also is beneficial to society. Alas...
^idiot right here. has obviously never actually carried out anything of that which he so eloquently speaks. your speculations from a computer chair are oh so sage. mass gaming seems easier because you were probably exposed to it from a young age. ask somebody who was driven into a rigid life of exercise what they would find easier to practice.
games don't cause any sort of chemical addiction. there's no bodily withdrawal when you stop gaming. it might find a niche in your daily life that you would struggle to plug, but that's about it. you might also be aware that endorphins are released during exercise. sound like a toasty incentive to you? people should do what they are passionate about. people are passionate about different things. passion is cultivated in so many different ways you couldn't even begin to understand. it's no where near as simple as, 'because playing games is fun for me, i will play games for a living'. if you were actually passionate about something, you might understand.
oh alas... if only these sub-human peons would contribute to society like *I* do. i spread my wisdom and teach others how the world works. you'll snap out of this 'high and mighty' phase before long, don't worry.
^idiot right here. I have, thank you very much. games are addicting. For proof of concept, take a look at MMORPGs, and how they give rewards out to players. However, I am still open to peer-reviewed journal articles that prove games have no addictive properties. However, currently there exists some evidence that video games certainly are addicting.
Whether or not computer games are addicting or not is rather irrelevent in the matter given that physical sports also has a state of "reward to the players" in terms of endorphins and hormons.
On November 14 2010 07:56 PROJECTILE wrote: Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most. Gaming is also easier to have a passion for than other things because it is generally WAY more addicting. Mass gaming/training is 100x easier than seriously trying to train for a sport (at almost any level) or going into a very difficult field (graduate work in sciences/math), and if time was permitting I could totally sit down and play 8+ hours a day. It would be great if most people could find enjoyment in something that also is beneficial to society. Alas...
^idiot right here. has obviously never actually carried out anything of that which he so eloquently speaks. your speculations from a computer chair are oh so sage. mass gaming seems easier because you were probably exposed to it from a young age. ask somebody who was driven into a rigid life of exercise what they would find easier to practice.
games don't cause any sort of chemical addiction. there's no bodily withdrawal when you stop gaming. it might find a niche in your daily life that you would struggle to plug, but that's about it. you might also be aware that endorphins are released during exercise. sound like a toasty incentive to you? people should do what they are passionate about. people are passionate about different things. passion is cultivated in so many different ways you couldn't even begin to understand. it's no where near as simple as, 'because playing games is fun for me, i will play games for a living'. if you were actually passionate about something, you might understand.
oh alas... if only these sub-human peons would contribute to society like *I* do. i spread my wisdom and teach others how the world works. you'll snap out of this 'high and mighty' phase before long, don't worry.
^idiot right here. I have, thank you very much. games are addicting. For proof of concept, take a look at MMORPGs, and how they give rewards out to players. However, I am still open to peer-reviewed journal articles that prove games have no addictive properties. However, currently there exists some evidence that video games certainly are addicting.
My heroin is insulted by this and want an apology.
On November 13 2010 21:43 Rflcrx wrote: I think martin luther kings soul was reborn inside of john.
Either you are sarcastic, or that is the most juvenile and immature analogy ihve ever heard about esports.
No literally Martin Luther King was reborn into Junnka and they now share a soul and they can switch between the two perrsonalities at will. Lätta upp lite för tusan.
On November 13 2010 22:37 ace246 wrote: Guys, you have to realise that butchji is right for the wrong reasons. Someone like a lawyer, ceo or anyother high class career gets high pay because THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMMUNITY. .
No they don't. Those positions are just as culturally constructed as "progaming," they are just accepted by the national/international community as being essentially.
If all the lawyers, CEOs, and other office jobs disappeared tonight, humanity would continue on as it has for thousands of years. The fact is that many people don't seem to realize that the professions we hold in esteem today were considered trash in the past (see lawyers, actors, etc.).
90 percent of the jobs today (especially in America, the land where nothing is manufactured anymore) are as artificial and unessential as anything creative or resulting from the advanced technology and standards of living we have today. The stock market, for instance, is an entire industry (encompassing the other industries) based on trading imaginary bits of paper that are worth an amount of other imaginary bits of paper that have value because people have decided that they have value; despite the apparent wealth and glamor of the successful stock traders/hedge fund people/ etc., they useless, except in the way that we have given them use through rationalizing their existence.
So let's just rationalize progaming as being useful.
If all the lawyers, CEOs, and other office jobs disappeared tonight, we would have the biggest global depression ever. Our economy would go down the drains, but if sc2 progaming was to dissappear, it wouldn't matter much to the world, (apart from the fanboys who enjoy progame scene but they are a minority)
And what is a global depression than the devaluing of culturally constructed currency that never had any inherent value to begin with. The economy would suffer because our economy is built upon jobs that exist more or less for there to be jobs; CEOs are not vital to human existence, clerks are not vital to human existence, tech writers, secretaries, programmers, analysts, HR trainers, etc.-- all of these are completely arbitrary positions, positions that the human race has endured without for thousands of years and relied on for only the last few decades.
My point is not that CEOs or whatever don't have their place (however imaginary that place may be), but rather that "don't contribute to society" is a pretty broad umbrella that covers 90 percent of today's jobs. Money passing hands doesn't contribute to society any more than progaming does-- in fact, as falling under the heading of entertainment, progaming at least has the ephemeral ability to provide joy to people, while in my experience money is far less likely to do so on a day to day basis.
On November 14 2010 07:56 PROJECTILE wrote: Pursuing what you enjoy and find value you in is an important lesson (and supported by psychology studies that measure levels of happiness). But the implicit support for people to just "do what you want" is pretty naive, and it certainly won't come with good consequences for most. Gaming is also easier to have a passion for than other things because it is generally WAY more addicting. Mass gaming/training is 100x easier than seriously trying to train for a sport (at almost any level) or going into a very difficult field (graduate work in sciences/math), and if time was permitting I could totally sit down and play 8+ hours a day. It would be great if most people could find enjoyment in something that also is beneficial to society. Alas...
^idiot right here. has obviously never actually carried out anything of that which he so eloquently speaks. your speculations from a computer chair are oh so sage. mass gaming seems easier because you were probably exposed to it from a young age. ask somebody who was driven into a rigid life of exercise what they would find easier to practice.
games don't cause any sort of chemical addiction. there's no bodily withdrawal when you stop gaming. it might find a niche in your daily life that you would struggle to plug, but that's about it. you might also be aware that endorphins are released during exercise. sound like a toasty incentive to you? people should do what they are passionate about. people are passionate about different things. passion is cultivated in so many different ways you couldn't even begin to understand. it's no where near as simple as, 'because playing games is fun for me, i will play games for a living'. if you were actually passionate about something, you might understand.
oh alas... if only these sub-human peons would contribute to society like *I* do. i spread my wisdom and teach others how the world works. you'll snap out of this 'high and mighty' phase before long, don't worry.
^idiot right here. I have, thank you very much. games are addicting. For proof of concept, take a look at MMORPGs, and how they give rewards out to players. However, I am still open to peer-reviewed journal articles that prove games have no addictive properties. However, currently there exists some evidence that video games certainly are addicting.
Try this one, then:
Wan, C. S., et. al., "The Motivations of Adolescents Who Are Addicted to Online Games: A Cognitive Perspective". Adolescence v. 42 (Spring 2007) p. 179-97
They find that, while extrinsic (achievements, rewards, etc.) characteristics of games may exacerbate a condition, intrinsic (addictive personality, stuff like that) characteristics are the main factor behind video game addiction, and that if a game is completely devoid of extrinsic influence the intrinsic factors will fill in the gaps-- aka if they weren't addicted to WoW they'd be addicted to Pong, and if Pong didn't exist they would be addicted to sex or drugs or whatever. Point being that they would be addicted to something. So, there's your peer reviewed study.
"Internet addiction is very likely a reflection of poor adjustment or psychological problems in real life (Chen, 1998)"
"In general, when the rewards of online games were set at low expectancy, low relevance, intangibility, and contingency, participants who imagined themselves as game players exhibited higher intrinsic motivation over extrinsic motivation than when the rewards were set at high expectancy, high relevance, tangibility, and noncontingency."
Your single most significant contribution to society, lies in this speech, be happy and experience joy. Simple concept, yet many would rather hang on to their ego and the expectations of others.
We are all different, I my self, do not want to be a pro gamer, I am following my intuition on what I want to be doing. Nothing puts a bigger smile on me then seeing others experience joy.
Ya honestly, I can't believe we're having this discussion - I think a part part of the issue is that western socity has for a long time associated how much you make with how good a person you are in socity. Therefore the football star who makes millions but still runs with drug dealers and other professional criminals is seen as a role model but the garbage man that saves up for years a dontates 10's of thousands to charity is looked over as a failure (really when was the last time you saw a garage man and thuoght you know maybe he's actually a great person?)
Would you still be saying the same things if pro videogamers made millions? No I doubt it.
To everyone knocking e-sports because there it's not a real job, I would suggest this - if you don't think the same of all mainstream professional sports or really most forms of professional entertainment then you're views are inconsistant and you need to do a little soul searching. Please, keep trying to be a doctor or lawyers and whatever else you think is 'good'. But think about it, if you look up more to a medical doctor than to a research PhD because the researcher isn't a real doctor (god I hate that, really think about which one is harder) then maybe you're vaules are a little... undeveloped.
If you think that all pro sports type are a waste and silly, then ok I can understand you looking down on pro e-sports but fundimently both main stream sports and e-sports are entertainers.
Look if you already think that anyone making less that 6 figures annually is a failure, well live you life, I hope you get rich and great luck to you. But you doubt you will ever be truely happy or truely sastisfied until you open your mind. Oh and guess what, you can actually be open minded and still be rich... think out it... it's shocking.
edit: let me add this, I wouldn't actually recommend that anyone go into sc2 professionally, I'm sure people will not listen to me and I'm happy they don't because that means they wanted to do it enough to ignore naysayer (good for you) why not? because there isn't a good backup plan if it turns out you're not good enough to make a living. but that is the only reason. One of the think about most of the 'recommended' careers otu there is that even if you fail you prob still have a decent educatino under you and make a decent living.
On November 15 2010 00:39 Galleon.frigate wrote: Look if you already think that anyone making less that 6 figures annually is a failure, well live you life, I hope you get rich and great luck to you. But you doubt you will ever be truely happy or truely sastisfied until you open your mind. Oh and guess what, you can actually be open minded and still be rich... think out it... it's shocking.
I feel like this is the major problem most esports-loving people have when discussing their passion with others: often times it comes across as really insecure. You don't have to be all like
Oh and guess what, you can actually be open minded and still be rich... think out it... it's shocking.
It just sounds small. Just be passionate about it, if people think thats cool, god bless. If people don't, god bless. Can't be ashamed of the shit you're passionate about.
On November 14 2010 23:30 FrostOtter wrote: And what is a global depression than the devaluing of culturally constructed currency that never had any inherent value to begin with. The economy would suffer because our economy is built upon jobs that exist more or less for there to be jobs; CEOs are not vital to human existence, clerks are not vital to human existence, tech writers, secretaries, programmers, analysts, HR trainers, etc.-- all of these are completely arbitrary positions, positions that the human race has endured without for thousands of years and relied on for only the last few decades.
My point is not that CEOs or whatever don't have their place (however imaginary that place may be), but rather that "don't contribute to society" is a pretty broad umbrella that covers 90 percent of today's jobs. Money passing hands doesn't contribute to society any more than progaming does-- in fact, as falling under the heading of entertainment, progaming at least has the ephemeral ability to provide joy to people, while in my experience money is far less likely to do so on a day to day basis.
Either you're incredibly misinformed or you just need to take a few courses on Economics before you post on this subject. A CEO of a large firm does more for the economy and society in general in one year than you will in your entire lifetime. Say you want toilet paper so you don't have to use your hand when you use the bathroom. Well that needs to be made, and you can't make it in anything but a large factory with tons of employees. Those employees need to be organized by managers, operations specialists and HR professionals, a supply chain needs to be managed by people doing nothing but office work, so that there's always material to keep the facility operating. Furthermore, someone needs to make sure that the quality of the product stays high and that the production costs stay low enough so that it's cheap to buy. Someone else needs to be there making sure it goes out to retailers so that you can actually go out and buy it. Without these "non contributing" jobs, we'd still be in the dark ages.
Furthermore, you need a bit of a history lesson too. We've had clerks, bankers, secretaries, supply managers, etc. for thousands of years, so don't claim that society exists well without them. In fact, before the adoption of currency in most parts of the world we were basically cavemen.
On November 14 2010 23:30 FrostOtter wrote: And what is a global depression than the devaluing of culturally constructed currency that never had any inherent value to begin with. The economy would suffer because our economy is built upon jobs that exist more or less for there to be jobs; CEOs are not vital to human existence, clerks are not vital to human existence, tech writers, secretaries, programmers, analysts, HR trainers, etc.-- all of these are completely arbitrary positions, positions that the human race has endured without for thousands of years and relied on for only the last few decades.
My point is not that CEOs or whatever don't have their place (however imaginary that place may be), but rather that "don't contribute to society" is a pretty broad umbrella that covers 90 percent of today's jobs. Money passing hands doesn't contribute to society any more than progaming does-- in fact, as falling under the heading of entertainment, progaming at least has the ephemeral ability to provide joy to people, while in my experience money is far less likely to do so on a day to day basis.
Either you're incredibly misinformed or you just need to take a few courses on Economics before you post on this subject. A CEO of a large firm does more for the economy and society in general in one year than you will in your entire lifetime. Say you want toilet paper so you don't have to use your hand when you use the bathroom. Well that needs to be made, and you can't make it in anything but a large factory with tons of employees. Those employees need to be organized by managers, operations specialists and HR professionals, a supply chain needs to be managed by people doing nothing but office work, so that there's always material to keep the facility operating. Furthermore, someone needs to make sure that the quality of the product stays high and that the production costs stay low enough so that it's cheap to buy. Someone else needs to be there making sure it goes out to retailers so that you can actually go out and buy it. Without these "non contributing" jobs, we'd still be in the dark ages.
Furthermore, you need a bit of a history lesson too. We've had clerks, bankers, secretaries, supply managers, etc. for thousands of years, so don't claim that society exists well without them. In fact, before the adoption of currency in most parts of the world we were basically cavemen.
I didn't realize the economy was the same as contributing to society, but then again I have enough respect for the humanities and for history to know that the economy is about the last thing in order of importance to humanity (except for the businessmen).
Also, the existence of mass-produced toilet paper =/= having to use your hand. The manufacturing of toilet paper could easily be accomplished on a smaller, regional scale, not to mention that there is absolutely no need to wipe your ass with either your hand or toilet paper. I am sure there are different types of cloth that would do the job just fine, whether quality or rags. The only thing your "contributions" do for society is further allow for commercial waste, commodification, and provide unnecessary ease. We would do absolutely fine without them. Banks are about 600 years old, by the way, which is hardly "thousands of years" and is a small fraction of human history.
I'm not arguing that the things we have today do not make life easier (albeit wasteful) or whatever, but that in a strict sense they are not at all necessary. Companies can exist without multinational corporations, manufacturing can exist without factories, and so on and so forth. I'm not saying abolish everything, but I am pointing out that the progamer is only slightly less useful than most other professions, if we are going to start making those arguments.
I do like all the middle-class/upper-middle-class rage ITT though.
Note: I am referring to banks in the modern sense of the term.
The fact that there are people who got upset enough by the speach that they had to come to this forum and point out that if you are not a doctor, or lawyer (lol?) or such, you arnt doing anything worth talking about with your life, is evidence enough that his speach is soo true.
I'm sure people told the Wright brothers they were wasting their time trying to fly... and I'm 100% sure many people thought playing hockey waaay back before it was a sport in canada, that they were wasting their time too.
same with golf...
same with football (North american) ..
It's just when people are not used to something, or when something is new and not popular (and they don't use it / do it) they are going to see it as a waste of time. But really... this 19 page thread and what it is talking about I think is really talking about the wrong issue..
The real issue is.. Why do you care of other people think you are wasting your time? What matters is how YOU feel about what you are doing...Now dont get me me wrong, you need to be honest with yourself when asking that... But really, what you think about what you're doing is all that maters....
Do you know who cares LESS about your life and your problems than you do??..... EVERYBODY.
So when you hear someone say gaming is a waste of time... ask youself "how much do they really care that I am a gamer?" .... THE ANSWER will always be "they care a hell of a lot less than I care about whether or not I am a gamer". So your conclusion should be "therefor I alone will decide when and if I wanna game"
On November 15 2010 01:29 NuKedUFirst wrote: In my opinion he did a very good job on this little improvised speech. I think it touched nearly everyone on Teamliquid.
I can't see why anyone would be upset about this speech.
The discussion about this is ridiculous, mainly because it is VERY likely that ALL sports started like this, people probably said things like "WTH you're wasting your life chasing after that soccer ball", well, there you got the most popular sport on earth now. Gaming is something NEW (what.. 20 years old?), and the reach of eSports is really something that is just now beginning to be explored. It is likely that eSports will be a valid ocupation for your life some years from now. When I started gaming, around 17 years ago, I didn't even know the internet existed, and now we got SC2 tournaments with Old Spice advertisement in them.
IMO, if you think eSports is a sucky thing to do with your life, well, that's fine, your opinion. If you think that it is a valid way to live life, in the measure that it makes you and your environment happy, then fine, do it, there's nothing wrong with it. Personally, gaming is my main hobby, I love it and I have tons of fun with it, but I've chosen to work in the future as a doctor, while getting whatever gaming I can. I just feel happy that way, regardless of how much money I make, if gaming for a living made me happier, I would sure as hell go all the way with it.
"I have a dream that one day esports will be played freely and without prejudice. I have a dream that one day my children will be playing Starcraft 4 with all the other kids around the world. I have a dream..."
There's alot more to life than just living. Living, they way people around you think you should live, is the biggest bear trap you'll ever have to get out of, imo.
I myself struggle with it too, one day you'll realise what you want to do and what you should do, the next day you've already forgotten it. Remember that 95% of every single thought you think every day are the exact same as the day before.
Not sure if we're allowed to post youtube links or not, but if you want to hear the speech just go to youtube and search "GSL John Speech". Hearing it in his voice makes it even more epic.
People like this guy need to be shot. Go out and volunteer your time helping others or do something that benefits society. People like this anger me so much, it hurts.
PhDs aren't even highly respected, really, because there is (at least in America) the idea that they aren't "real" doctors (in that they don't practice medicine).
Source: Future PhD, current graduate student
The respect you get from your Ph.d depends entirely on
A. Your ability
B. Your school (this is obviously somewhat related to A)
A PhD from Oxbridge or an Ivy League is pretty freaking awesome. A Phd from the University of North-West North Dakota pretty much means 'I'm lazy and don't want a job'. If you do any research on the subject at all you'll realize that people with bad Phds end up worse off than people without them at all.
This has nothing to do with the completely bullshit and insulting claim that "people only respect doctors that practice medicine". The Phds I know from Oxford are doing pretty damn well for themselves, it's all about the quality of your degree. Any Joe can get a Phd if he's willing to fork out the cash, it's the quality of it.
PhDs aren't even highly respected, really, because there is (at least in America) the idea that they aren't "real" doctors (in that they don't practice medicine).
Source: Future PhD, current graduate student
The respect you get from your Ph.d depends entirely on
A. Your ability
B. Your school (this is obviously somewhat related to A)
A PhD from Oxbridge or an Ivy League is pretty freaking awesome. A Phd from the University of North-West North Dakota pretty much means 'I'm lazy and don't want a job'. If you do any research on the subject at all you'll realize that people with bad Phds end up worse off than people without them at all.
This has nothing to do with the completely bullshit and insulting claim that "people only respect doctors that practice medicine". The Phds I know from Oxford are doing pretty damn well for themselves, it's all about the quality of your degree. Any Joe can get a Phd if he's willing to fork out the cash, it's the quality of it.
If you actually read my post, I said "at least in America," where my "insulting" claims are applicable (also, nowhere did I say that those opinions were my own-- in fact, I said I was going to be a PhD one day...reading comprehension is your friend).
And also, if you did any research on the subject you would find that where you get your PhD from is not nearly as important as what research you publish/who you publish it with. Harvard/Oxford will only get you looked first among the applicants, it won't get you the job. Any school well-funded enough to offer a credited doctoral program is prestigious enough for graduates to be able to get a job one place or another (but then again I'm speaking only of America academia here, maybe things are different in Britain).
Ok. I'm a doctor. And I totally teared up when he spoke from his heart. Martin "Junkka" Luther. I just wish people wud spread this all over the interwebs...
Guys like him, who've experienced a super positive change in their lives because of a series of games and the surrounding community is what makes me want to be involved even more. That was the first live stream of SC2 I'd ever watched and I'm damn sure gonna stick around for more now.
I think this speech is great, but definitely more applicable to Korean gamers. The fact is that even the players at the very top of the North American SC2 scene are supplementing their very meager "professional" gaming income (if any) with either a job, or an allowance from their parents. Everyone should chase their dream, but also be prepared to leverage your experience in eSports elsewhere if nothing ever materializes for you (as it doesn't for most top players). Never stop playing, however!
This is seriously a brilliant speech. I'm not going to say whether or not I cried when I heard it the first time. It was super touching, though. You can officially add me to his fanclub <3
EPT
Also what will ZergBong do? (Dunno maybe he has a Doctor of Medicine or smth) He has barely any time left being a progamer and you can't live with that 80K $ forever.
<3
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