On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
Should be possible if they met in group play. You dont need a perfect record to be first in a group.
Edit: Pool results count (Socke vs. Huk for example)
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
We were imagining a scenario where someone beats someone else in pool play and then bumps into them in the bracket. But I don't know if pool results count towards extended series.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
We were imagining a scenario where someone beats someone else in pool play and then bumps into them in the bracket. But I don't know if pool results count towards extended series.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
We were imagining a scenario where someone beats someone else in pool play and then bumps into them in the bracket. But I don't know if pool results count towards extended series.
Socke vs Huk in the championship losers bracket was a prime example of an extended series carrying over from pool play.
Honestly I feel like pool play results triggering extended series in the championship losers bracket is the worst part of the rule. If the rule has to stay, it should at least only apply within the same sections of competition. The open bracket, pool play, and the championship bracket are all separate affairs. Once the championship bracket is filled out, the playing field should be level once again.
In fact I'm fairly sure when this was debated on SotG with Adam and Sundance, the above was how it was explained that ES would work with the "new" championship bracket format. The championship bracket was supposed to be a separate affair where the extended series slate was wiped clean.
I'm probably misrepresenting them however, as it was a long time ago.
I personally dislike the extended series rule... the fact that the loser goes to the loser's bracket (therefore needs to play more games) should give winners enough advantage on the tournament.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
Pool play goes into the Championship Bracket. So if someone(Player A) wins their Pool games 4-1, whoever they lost to(Player B) can make it all the way to the Grand Finals and the series can start 2-1 or 2-0 with the Winner's Bracket (Player A) starting at a disadvantage. Player B would need to just win three games and win the Championship since it became an Extended Series(Bo9) and the Winner's Bracket player would have only lost one "life" in a double-elimination bracket. Which could've happened if Parting made it to the Grand Finals and Oz managed to meet him there.
That scenario should have thrown red flags up for MLG to remove this rule or rethink the format and when Extended Series applies. Of course, they didn't and continue to plow on through. Just a matter of time before it blows up in their face.
I can't believe that this thread was made just under 2 years ago now, and MLG haven't even batted an eyelid on it. It's great that MLG listen to their paying customers... Oh wait... They clearly don't. The poll is saying everything!!! Nobody likes it. It's a massive disadvantage to the person who loses (especially if you lose 2-0). Nobody wants to go into a fresh game already being down 1-2 or 0-2. It's not good mentally. Please MLG listen to the popular demand and dump extended series and make best of 7s instead from afresh.
I've seen MLG argue about this on twitter most recently with the FGC. Despite everyone telling them the rule sucks, they cling to the idea that it's only a vocal minority and that most like the rule. I think they're wrong, but that's the excuse they're sticking to.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
We were imagining a scenario where someone beats someone else in pool play and then bumps into them in the bracket. But I don't know if pool results count towards extended series.
Edit: nm i was wrong
On March 27 2012 02:39 Copenap wrote: You're missing something, everybody qualifies...
A loser of a match drops into the Losers Bracket, and then must fight Out of the Losers Bracket - and if they can make it to the championship final match - they should not be penalized for the earlier loss a second time. They already dropped down and had to work extra hard and served their punishment for their earlier loss.
On March 27 2012 02:29 Canucklehead wrote: I've seen MLG argue about this on twitter most recently with the FGC. Despite everyone telling them the rule sucks, they cling to the idea that it's only a vocal minority and that most like the rule. I think they're wrong, but that's the excuse they're sticking to.
This is really painful. MLG have tried so hard to get fighters in, but when they institute dumbass rules like this everyone gets annoyed.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
We were imagining a scenario where someone beats someone else in pool play and then bumps into them in the bracket. But I don't know if pool results count towards extended series.
It's not possible to beat the person who comes first in your pool AND also qualify in your group. Because of the way pool tiebreakers are done (on head to heads) you will lose any tiebreakers with other 3-2 people. Despite the fact you've beaten the better player (the person who came first) you'll always go out. Edit: I think this is right but I'm not 100%
You're missing something, everybody qualifies...
That's what they are talking about, winning over they pool winner but taking second or worse and then facing him again in the grandfinal with an advantage.
I think it's fair when it's a person from the lower bracker facing off someone from the upper bracket. So basically just in the finale. However, that's bad for the viewers and makes the tournament less exciting, so the finale should start from 0-0. If both players are in the lower bracket, then both players have lost a match. For example:
A loses to B B loses to C A and B play again, and B has a huge advantage. It's not fair that B's loss against C is completely ignored.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
We were imagining a scenario where someone beats someone else in pool play and then bumps into them in the bracket. But I don't know if pool results count towards extended series.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
We were imagining a scenario where someone beats someone else in pool play and then bumps into them in the bracket. But I don't know if pool results count towards extended series.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
We were imagining a scenario where someone beats someone else in pool play and then bumps into them in the bracket. But I don't know if pool results count towards extended series.
It's not possible to beat the person who comes first in your pool AND also qualify in your group. Because of the way pool tiebreakers are done (on head to heads) you will lose any tiebreakers with other 3-2 people. Despite the fact you've beaten the better player (the person who came first) you'll always go out. Edit: I think this is right but I'm not 100%
They can still come up from the LB.
It will never be against the guys with the top positions in their pool, but they can still meet a player where they managed to win 2-0 or 2-1 even though their record is something like 2-3 (5-6 or whatever) and they could still meet that one guy later on in the LB.
For me the biggest issue with Extended series is that it creates uninteresting matches and these matches tend to all come towards the end of the competition makes this even worse.
Huk v Heart, Heart v DRG and DRG v MKP were all extended series and were also the final 3 games of the tournament and they were all less intense and less interesting because of extended series. You would think that any situation that potentially leads to less interesting Matches in an MLG tournament would be quickly removed but that's not the case with this one which is really rather confusing.
On March 27 2012 00:58 Geiko wrote: can someone coming from the loser bracket start with an advantage over someone coming from the winner bracket in the final ?
No, that is never possible, because the player from the winner's bracket has won all their sets while the player from the loser's bracket has lost one set. To have an advantage, a player would have had to have beaten the other one, and the one who lost would have arrived from the loser's bracket since they would have lost a set.
We were imagining a scenario where someone beats someone else in pool play and then bumps into them in the bracket. But I don't know if pool results count towards extended series.
It's not possible to beat the person who comes first in your pool AND also qualify in your group. Because of the way pool tiebreakers are done (on head to heads) you will lose any tiebreakers with other 3-2 people. Despite the fact you've beaten the better player (the person who came first) you'll always go out. Edit: I think this is right but I'm not 100%
I'm pretty sure it's possible for this scenario to happen. Say if the winner of the group goes 4-1 and that 1 loss is to someone who gets 3-2 or worse then they could meet up with that person later and be at a disadvantage. Most of the time this would occur in the losers bracket so in theory they should be starting on level ground (this is why extended series isn't great in general). However, if the person who got 3-2 or worse gets through to the grand final and the 4-1 person wins in the winner's semis and final then the person in the winners bracket would start at a disadvantage, which would be really bad.
As stated, the rule is meant to be an advantage for the winner of the first series because he has already beaten his opponent once. I think that it makes sense for the Grand Final (with the winner of the Winner's Bracket having an advantage over the winner of the Loser's Bracket), however, I think if people are in the same bracket (ie: Winner's OR Loser's), they should start the match off on even footing. Winning in group play already gives you an advantage (theoretically) going into the winner's bracket, so I think the rule should only apply for the Grand Finals.
I honestly don't see what is the issue here :l If someone beats someone then meets them again they should have an advantage they already proved they can beat them unlike the other person. Its only fair since the other player has proved nothing.
EPT
