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MLG extended Series Poll - Page 35

Forum Index > SC2 General
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shtdisturbance
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada613 Posts
August 29 2011 00:36 GMT
#681
It is a fair rule. I still think they should change it.
Pool play should not be counted, it is a different series.
Winner gets a 1-0 lead.
I feel that a player going 2-0 then 1-2 should not be able to loose going 3-2.
zaii
Profile Joined October 2010
Guam2611 Posts
August 29 2011 00:38 GMT
#682
On August 29 2011 09:30 halvorg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2011 09:20 zaii wrote:
the extended series made some amazing story lines. Nada, and Demuslim coming back after being down 0-2, Also hero almost did it too. I can see why MLG thinks its fair and will never remove, and I agree with them.


I see this brought up again and again, whether or not a rule makes some games an "amazing story line" should not matter in a tournament setting. Yeah if Huk was forced to play all his matches without a keyboard then him winning a few games would be an "amazing story line", but it would not make MLG a very good tournament.

Did you think Sheth v. Hero 1-4, Trimaster v. Huk 1-4 and CoCa v. Bomber 1-4 were amazing story lines too?

There is a reason why MLG is the only organization in the world who thinks this is fair, as far as I know.


Story line for them was that they couldn't redeem themselves from the earlier losses like Nada and Demuslim. MLG has been using extended series since the beginning. It makes them unique to other tournaments, If players and spectators hate it so much then don't compete or watch MLG. Ranting about it now is useless, Since MLG League Ops have already confirmed that it's the one rule they will never change.
Marl
Profile Joined January 2010
United States694 Posts
August 29 2011 00:40 GMT
#683
its fine especially for the finals when Bomber had just beat Cocoa 2-0 an hour before the grand final
MonkSEA
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia1227 Posts
August 29 2011 00:41 GMT
#684
I think extended series adds some spark to MLG. I don't think it should be used though. I'd like bo5 semi's and bo7 finals as well, it just seems much more fair to both players if they play in them rather then bo3's.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sirmonkeh Zerg Live Casts and Commentary!
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
August 29 2011 00:44 GMT
#685
ahhh, yet another mlg has passed and the debate on extended series begins anew.

when my player has the advantage, i love it. when my player has the disadvantage, i hate it.

otherwise, the topic has been beaten to death. there are arguments both ways. most of tl.net apparently prefers it not be there, mlg apparently feels it should (but may be changing their minds), and the winner is mlg because its their tournament.
SpurvL
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden345 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 00:45:30
August 29 2011 00:45 GMT
#686
The only thing i really like with the rule is to see those awesome comebacks, turning a 0-2 to a 4-2 otherwise, i think it's just as much bad as good with..
Naniwa, ThorZaiN, SaSe, DeMusliM, White-RA... Where are my Zerg heroes?.. Stephano <3
Wargizmo
Profile Joined March 2010
1237 Posts
August 29 2011 00:53 GMT
#687

The one great advantage of extended series is it eliminates dead rubbers in pool play. That is, every match is important to every player because of the chance they might end up facing each other again later in the tourney.

Without extended series you'd get a lot of matches in pool play where one or both players don't give a shit about the result because it doesn't change their pool standing.
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
August 29 2011 00:57 GMT
#688
I was more negative about this after Columbus when there were just so many extended series that influenced the result of matches, but after Raliegh, i'm more annoyed at the fact that the finals are mostly going to be over in 2 or 3 games. It makes it really lackluster. Grand finals should be at least Bo5 or Bo7, and the upper bracket semis and lower bracket finals should be Bo5 as well, it's just not enough top level starcraft 2 as far as I'm concerned!!
RAW-BERRY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States26 Posts
August 29 2011 01:16 GMT
#689
A lot of people are saying it's fair, but shouldn't be used. This makes very little sense to me. If it's fair, there's no reason not to use it. Why should people who lose before the Finals get a second chance, but the Finalist from the winners bracket get no second chance, or at least some sort of advantage? That just wouldn't make sense.
Tomfour
Profile Joined September 2010
United States173 Posts
August 29 2011 01:20 GMT
#690
Honestly, the rule is pretty fair I guess to the players in a sense that if you win and have to face the same person it wasn't all for nothing. However, I think the advantage for winning should just be your placement in the bracket.

The extended series can be interesting, but the fact that the finals of MLG could be over in only 2 games is really really disappointing if it happens. The finals should always be a Bo7 no matter the circumstances, I feel like when you are really deep in a bracket, the fans want to watch as many games as possible, and the players want to be able to show as many games as possible.
frogrubdown
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1266 Posts
August 29 2011 01:27 GMT
#691
On August 29 2011 10:16 RAW-BERRY wrote:
A lot of people are saying it's fair, but shouldn't be used. This makes very little sense to me. If it's fair, there's no reason not to use it. Why should people who lose before the Finals get a second chance, but the Finalist from the winners bracket get no second chance, or at least some sort of advantage? That just wouldn't make sense.


No one's saying the winner's finalist shouldn't get a second chance. What we have a problem with is people meeting in the losers bracket, each having lost at least one match, and one having an advantage because the other's loss happened to be to him. It's an additional advantage on top of that of staying alive in the winners longer.

There are many reasons not to use a fair rule. For instance, the rule might encourage boring, short, or one sided series. Of all the fair rules to choose from, it makes sense to choose the ones that have the least negative effects. Not that I'm 100% on board with the rule being fair.
Mallard86
Profile Joined May 2011
186 Posts
August 29 2011 01:41 GMT
#692
On the surface, the extended series rule seems fair but ultimately it is not. You play to win the series. You do not play one series in the hopes that you end up in a better position for a rematch. I guarantee that if you watched a collection of Bo3 and Bo7 series you will see different game 2s in each series. You simply play the game differently because in one case its an elimination game and in the other its just one more game towards eventual elimination. Frankly each series is a stand alone series and needs to be treated as such. If there absolutely must be some advantage given to the previous winner then it should be in something like map selection.

Also series winners generally have to play less matches and get injected later into various rounds so they have already reaped the benefit of winning a series by the time they end up with some rematch.

There is another huge issue with the extended series. I went to barcraft tonight and instead of 4+ awesome games we were robbed by the extended series rule. The barcraft that should have gone on until 9 or 10 ended at an early 8 o'clock. At the very absolute least, the final should be a true Bo7. If SC2 wants to become a spectator sport, it has to eventually cater to the bar crowd. This means a fluid and sufficiently lengthy final and semifinals. Tournaments should minimize delays between the last few series and try to broadcast them at prime time and in proper and exciting series lengths. Going to barcraft already knowing that Coca was at a huge disadvantage then watching him lose in only 3 games was the sort of soul crushing disappointment that makes me think that maybe barcraft isnt worth it in extended series scenarios.
Crisco
Profile Joined March 2011
1170 Posts
August 29 2011 01:45 GMT
#693
i would pay $100 to get the system changed for the finals
Spaceneil8
Profile Joined February 2011
United States317 Posts
August 29 2011 01:47 GMT
#694
Since MLG's tournament is over such a short amount of time, a rematch is seen as a continuation of the previous series because nothing has changed between the two players.
Drygioni
Profile Joined February 2011
Japan379 Posts
August 29 2011 01:48 GMT
#695
On August 29 2011 09:57 AxionSteel wrote:
I was more negative about this after Columbus when there were just so many extended series that influenced the result of matches, but after Raliegh, i'm more annoyed at the fact that the finals are mostly going to be over in 2 or 3 games. It makes it really lackluster. Grand finals should be at least Bo5 or Bo7, and the upper bracket semis and lower bracket finals should be Bo5 as well, it's just not enough top level starcraft 2 as far as I'm concerned!!


I agree with this. To me the extended series makes sense and seems fair but it just makes the finals underwhelming as it feels like the finals are just a regular Bo3.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
August 29 2011 01:50 GMT
#696
I'm fine with extended series. It makes every game super important, so that top pool players will still take their last match super seriously even if they're guaranteed 1st pool spot.
liftlift > tsm
Mallard86
Profile Joined May 2011
186 Posts
August 29 2011 01:52 GMT
#697
Since MLG's tournament is over such a short amount of time, a rematch is seen as a continuation of the previous series because nothing has changed between the two players.


Imagine you are playing a football game. It has two fifteen minute quarters. Imagine you are playing another football game and it has four fifteen minute quarters. Would you play the second quarter of game one differently or the same as the second quarter of game two? Would it make sense to play game one then at the end of it decide to add another two quarters to it?
Zedex
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom310 Posts
August 29 2011 01:56 GMT
#698
I really dislike the extended series rule, if you ignore whether or not it's fair it significantly takes away form the final when its already 2-0 the series isn't as exciting and it feels over before its began. Most of the mlg finals i've watched were boring for me because of this. It seems to be something that is completely overlooked when talking about extended series, at least in my experience.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sumwar
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada199 Posts
August 29 2011 02:03 GMT
#699
All tournaments should realize how terrible loser brackets are. First tournaments should start with a group stage. And after a certain point the group stages are done with and its single elimination from that point onward. Loser brackets result in the winner from the losers bracket vs the winners from the winners bracket. The person from the losers bracket always has some sort of disadvantage. Gee I wonder who will win? It is so anti-climatic.
BigLighthouse
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom424 Posts
August 29 2011 02:08 GMT
#700
Its a stupid rule and most people realise that. If two players meet in the loser's bracket then they have both already had their 1 loss. It shouldnt matter who it was to because its a new series of games. If you treat it as 1 large series then you could make a fair argument that you really shouldnt be out of the tournament because you know what, you only lost 1 series, it was just a really big 1.
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