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MLG extended Series Poll - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 70 71 72 Next
Chriamon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States886 Posts
November 07 2010 21:27 GMT
#21
I don't think this rule was the controversy, the whole thing was, + Show Spoiler +
Tyler got screwed with the game resets and such, and that Tylers 0-2 vs painuser could've gone much differently without the admin fuckups
and the bitching about the extended series rule is really misplaced bitching.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/274906/1/Blaze/
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
November 07 2010 21:27 GMT
#22
It is NOT fair, take this example :

PainUser lost one bo3 and started 2-0 the extended match vs Tyler who also lost one bo3
Jinro DIDNT lose one bo3 and starts 2-1 vs TT1 who has lost a bo3.

IE PainUser had the right to lose one more series just cause he beat in WB the guy he met later in LB. Whereas if Jinro loses THIS extended series, he's flat out.
NoiR
Bear4188
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1797 Posts
November 07 2010 21:27 GMT
#23
I think whether it's fair or not is ambiguous and really just comes down to semantics. Personally I think the advantage of winning.. is winning. To meet again the winning player must have lost, losing any right to some sort of advantage, and the original loser must have gone through more games in the losers bracket clearly earning the right to a straight up rematch. I don't like the rule at all.
"I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something." - R. Feynman
green.at
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Austria1459 Posts
November 07 2010 21:27 GMT
#24
many tournaments use a "you have to win 2 bo3's if you come from the lower bracket" so i say this extended series is better.
Inputting special characters into chat should no longer cause the game to crash.
Pyrthas
Profile Joined March 2007
United States3196 Posts
November 07 2010 21:28 GMT
#25
I don't agree with the extended series, but here's the best explanation I've heard. I'll quote my OP:

paraphrasing tappi:
The overarching aim of the tournament is to have the best players duke it out in the final. Double elimination is an attempt to facilitate that by giving people a second chance when they get a little unlucky, but it's imperfect. When you get a rematch, double elimination should be ignored, because what really matters is seeing who the better player is overall, and at that point, the best way to do that is to just play a longer series and see who comes out on top. In the grand final, then, a single extended series is still the best option, and we should just ignore double elim rules, because they're not serving any purpose at that point.


Just to give the other side its due.
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
November 07 2010 21:28 GMT
#26
On November 08 2010 06:27 green.at wrote:
many tournaments use a "you have to win 2 bo3's if you come from the lower bracket" so i say this extended series is better.


This is not the problem. Many tournaments use that for GRAND FINALS and it's ok, whether it's one or the other solution. What's in discussion is the extended rule for a regular Loser Bracket game.
NoiR
GogoKodo
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Canada1785 Posts
November 07 2010 21:29 GMT
#27
On November 08 2010 06:27 Chriamon wrote:
I don't think this rule was the controversy, the whole thing was, + Show Spoiler +
Tyler got screwed with the game resets and such, and that Tylers 0-2 vs painuser could've gone much differently without the admin fuckups
and the bitching about the extended series rule is really misplaced bitching.

There really is a lot of people complaining about the extended series without the screwup in Tyler's match. There was a big thread about this for the last MLG as well.
twitter: @terrancem
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
November 07 2010 21:29 GMT
#28
I don't really care what system they end up using in the future as long as it's easier to understand than what they're using now :\
OneRedBeard
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany313 Posts
November 07 2010 21:29 GMT
#29
It is not fair in a purely mathematical, logical sense. What it does is reward players for the plain luck to draw a player they had played an defeated before. That is obviously not a good thing. This is especially undesirable inside the loser bracket, as it gives certain players the 'right' to lose more games than others yet still remain in the game.
Logical nonsense.
burn the land and boil the sea you can't take the sky from me
Zaq343
Profile Joined November 2010
United States3 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-07 21:29:57
November 07 2010 21:29 GMT
#30
On November 08 2010 06:23 btlyger wrote:
The fact that there is a winners and losers bracket gives enough advantage to the winner already.

That enough is the crucial part. MLG, at least currently, doesn't agree. Here's a question that maybe someone can answer. How does the transfer down to the LB happen? Is the whole bracket laid out ahead of time, or do seeds come into play in placing players into a given LB round?
"When angry, count to four; when very angry, swear." Mark Twain
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
November 07 2010 21:29 GMT
#31
It makes sense in the finals since the tournament is double elimination, meaning that otherwise TTone would have to win two best of 3's vs Jinro.

In other rounds, it's stupid and unfair imo.
TrevorJK
Profile Joined May 2009
United States77 Posts
November 07 2010 21:29 GMT
#32
On November 08 2010 06:27 Nouar wrote:
It is NOT fair, take this example :

PainUser lost one bo3 and started 2-0 the extended match vs Tyler who also lost one bo3
Jinro DIDNT lose one bo3 and starts 2-1 vs TT1 who has lost a bo3.

IE PainUser had the right to lose one more series just cause he beat in WB the guy he met later in LB. Whereas if Jinro loses THIS extended series, he's flat out.


In that case there would be one extended series and then one bo3 for these grand finals
Bear4188
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1797 Posts
November 07 2010 21:30 GMT
#33
On November 08 2010 06:28 Pyrthas wrote:
I don't agree with the extended series, but here's the best explanation I've heard. I'll quote my OP:

Show nested quote +
paraphrasing tappi:
The overarching aim of the tournament is to have the best players duke it out in the final. Double elimination is an attempt to facilitate that by giving people a second chance when they get a little unlucky, but it's imperfect. When you get a rematch, double elimination should be ignored, because what really matters is seeing who the better player is overall, and at that point, the best way to do that is to just play a longer series and see who comes out on top. In the grand final, then, a single extended series is still the best option, and we should just ignore double elim rules, because they're not serving any purpose at that point.


Just to give the other side its due.


Precisely, semantics.

So, MLG, what do you want? The "best" players or a double elimination tournament? If they want the former they should probably do a single or double elimination Bo5 tournament, not this extended series junk.
"I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something." - R. Feynman
Merlinius
Profile Joined September 2010
62 Posts
November 07 2010 21:31 GMT
#34
On November 08 2010 06:10 Zaq343 wrote:
It seems pretty clear that it's something that's not popular here at least. What I think it's designed to avoid is a situation where a player is eliminated by a player they have a winning record against. For example, 2-0 the first time, followed by a 1-2 LB series results in 3-2 but elimination. That'd be pretty lame.


exactly. and that's why i like the rule. a player should not be elminated by someone he has defeated more often than not during the entire tournament.
AyJay
Profile Joined April 2010
1515 Posts
November 07 2010 21:31 GMT
#35
Absolutely not. I don't see the point of it... If player get's knocked down to the losers bracket he has to fight twice as many players than in winners bracket and if he meets someone who knocked him out that guy gets advantage??? My mind is about to explode because I don't know how fair can this rule be... I don't even know how this rule can work even in Halo. Please someone explain >_<
maellestrom
Profile Joined April 2010
United States194 Posts
November 07 2010 21:32 GMT
#36
So. The question you have to ask yourself is does it REALLY apply to everyone? The extended series is only an issue between people who have played together in the tournament. I don't really see a problem with the rule since if they have a history, the person from the WB has obviously done better at that point and deserves an advantage. But even taking that into account its not like every match in the losers bracket is seeing a extended series.
The rule was only put in place 4 times in the entire tournament guys... 4 matches out of 108 in the losers bracket. Pretty sure everyone is making an necessarily big deal about this.
Holla
Pyrthas
Profile Joined March 2007
United States3196 Posts
November 07 2010 21:32 GMT
#37
On November 08 2010 06:30 Bear4188 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2010 06:28 Pyrthas wrote:
I don't agree with the extended series, but here's the best explanation I've heard. I'll quote my OP:

paraphrasing tappi:
The overarching aim of the tournament is to have the best players duke it out in the final. Double elimination is an attempt to facilitate that by giving people a second chance when they get a little unlucky, but it's imperfect. When you get a rematch, double elimination should be ignored, because what really matters is seeing who the better player is overall, and at that point, the best way to do that is to just play a longer series and see who comes out on top. In the grand final, then, a single extended series is still the best option, and we should just ignore double elim rules, because they're not serving any purpose at that point.


Just to give the other side its due.


Precisely, semantics.

This has nothing to do with semantics, and everything to do with what you think the best way to determine the winner of the tournament is. That's something people can have a substantive disagreement about. It doesn't have to be merely a disagreement about meaning, which is what it would be if it were just semantics.
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
November 07 2010 21:33 GMT
#38
On November 08 2010 06:29 Titan48 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2010 06:27 Nouar wrote:
It is NOT fair, take this example :

PainUser lost one bo3 and started 2-0 the extended match vs Tyler who also lost one bo3
Jinro DIDNT lose one bo3 and starts 2-1 vs TT1 who has lost a bo3.

IE PainUser had the right to lose one more series just cause he beat in WB the guy he met later in LB. Whereas if Jinro loses THIS extended series, he's flat out.


In that case there would be one extended series and then one bo3 for these grand finals



Well this is what happens right now and there's no additionnal bo3 for the grand finals.
NoiR
TrevorJK
Profile Joined May 2009
United States77 Posts
November 07 2010 21:33 GMT
#39
On November 08 2010 06:31 AyJay wrote:
Absolutely not. I don't see the point of it... If player get's knocked down to the losers bracket he has to fight twice as many players than in winners bracket and if he meets someone who knocked him out that guy gets advantage??? My mind is about to explode because I don't know how fair can this rule be... I don't even know how this rule can work even in Halo. Please someone explain >_<


That guy guys the advantage because he already 2-0'd you. Without the extended series you would have situations where a player goes 2-3 vs an opponent advances instead of the player with 3 wins
Pyrthas
Profile Joined March 2007
United States3196 Posts
November 07 2010 21:34 GMT
#40
On November 08 2010 06:31 Merlinius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2010 06:10 Zaq343 wrote:
It seems pretty clear that it's something that's not popular here at least. What I think it's designed to avoid is a situation where a player is eliminated by a player they have a winning record against. For example, 2-0 the first time, followed by a 1-2 LB series results in 3-2 but elimination. That'd be pretty lame.


exactly. and that's why i like the rule. a player should not be elminated by someone he has defeated more often than not during the entire tournament.

As I explain over here (I know I keep linking that, but it's just because I don't want to rehash the same junk in this thread), MLG is not consistent on this. When the grand final is not a rematch, it's possible for the LB player to go 3-2 against the WB player but still lose the tournament.
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