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On October 18 2010 08:19 AJMcSpiffy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2010 07:55 MrSexington wrote:On October 18 2010 07:45 tocador wrote:On October 18 2010 07:32 MrSexington wrote:On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote:
Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points. I agree. I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win. Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points. And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game." I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short. Oh well, it was entertaining.  Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT. Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating. My example works for both team and solo games. The "team" part of it was the least important thing I wrote in that entire post. Try again. So it's like a champion bowler. He has practiced for months on end to bowl a perfect game. He knows every throw for every situation. He's got his custom ball and fitted shoes and is going in for the win. It's the 10th frame and he's down by 9 points (technically I think something like 29 points would be more tense of a situation in bowling but that's not important). In stead of sticking to his game plan of throwing a strike and winning, he makes a decision to make a more creative throw that (he thought) the crowd was cheering for. He gets the crowd pumped and builds excitement through the whole bowling alley. Well except for the last 4 lanes, those are reserved for a toddler's birthday party. Huk misses the strike (and the next spare, stick with me here) and leaves the tournament. The crowd is still pumped, and many will remember that throw above any other match of the night. Of course the strike throwing robot in the corner says that it was a stupid idea to not just win, but strike throwing robots can't always see that being creative is important even if it results in a loss. The whole situation feels a bit less impactful when it's taken in a solo context. The only person upset by this situation, the only person who suffered any loss, is Huk. He knew that when he decided to try the blindfolded shot, so it's not anyone's place to say they know better than him. He wanted to entertain, and mad props to him for it. He still got really far in the tournament, and decided to have fun with his last match and be an entertainer. He's still one of the top Protoss' in the world, one loss at MLG wont take that away from him.
(See, now this is the correct way to respond to it what I wrote.)
Speaking of more examples, I have an even better one. It's a poker player at the final table of the WSOP. It's gotten down to three-handed play. One of the players decides to go all-in on every hand. He gets a couple of good hands, but then eventually busts out.
1) Ultimately it's HuK's decision.
2) It was also very entertaining.
I'm not really denying either of those points.
I just know that for at least the next couple tournaments, I'm going to be looking for HuK to entertain, not necessarily to win. I'm going to be watching his games, anticipating that big, splashy move, instead of rooting for him to win the whole thing. If he does both, then great. If he doesn't, no big deal.
If he doesn't care, then neither do I -- and that's my main criticism.
Personally, I want to care. I mean, he seems like a nice guy.
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I was there, and people were definitely chanting MOTHERSHIP MOTHERSHIP at one point. Not sure about the whole "SHOW THE GAME" thing.
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I don't understand the comments about entertainment, of course he's playing to win. HuK seemed like he had the advantage until he screwed up the vortex. So, while yes it was a little gimmicky, HuK's problems didn't really start until he started making technical errors.
The root issue it seems which only a few seem to be focusing on is the crowd influencing the game. Whether or not HuK would've actually built a mothership or not I suspect the game would have been different without them chanting.
Just my noobish two cents
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Listening to all the hate that Huk has been getting from this is disheartening. I dont' think the decision to go mom was game ending in itself. There were a number of points where Huks playing got him killed, none of which were the decision to rush the mom.
1) Not scouting the rocks. The rocks on his side were being attacked before he put down the fleet beacon. He would a) not been surprised by the bio ball attacking his expo and b) would have had more units to defend. He probably would have lost a lot of units, but he probably wouldn't have lost the expo. Even if he did keep going with the fleat beacon, He had the units to defeat the push, but not seeing it until it was sniping his main with his force way out of position is what lost the nexus, not simply rushing the mom.
2) The misplaced vortex. At that point, that ball of M&M that select has was all his units. If those were vortexed, Huk could have wrecked havok in the main and even if his ground force got taken out, the mom could fly back safely to his base with reinforcements waiting.
3) At the time he lost the mom, his units were very scattered. He had a 2 phoenix, 4 zealots, and 10 stalkers. Of those, only the zealots and 8 stalkers were anywhere nearby the mothership, and even then they were a ways behind it. If he waited until he had enough energy for another vortex, instead of sending his units into the bridge and putting the mom out of position, he would have been okay.
So all in all, I'm of the opinion that it was not having sight of the rocks, and later poor unit control that lost the game, not the decision to rush mom itself.
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the people who screamed are the reason he lost
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I'm so saddened by this thread now. I left it open to come back to all these people talking trash saying Huk didn't play to his best, etc etc. He played creatively, but made mistakes. The mothership rush wasn't even an all-in, cool 6pooled inca on kulas in gsl which was much less creative and much more risky and definitely not using all of his full playing potential to do that.
It's heartbreaking that Huk does an unorthodox build, which could've worked very well had he not made two critical mistakes, yet people are hating on him because of it. "If he doesn't care, then neither do I -- and that's my main criticism." Sure, getting to the finals of the winner's bracket in a major tournament after winning it the first time and picking up his whole life to go to Korea to play a damn video game for a living shows he doesn't care, not at all. I'd like to see Huk play when he does care then.
Regardless, I used to dislike his play, but he won me over as a fan even before the mothership through his good manner and nice/friendly rapport with the other players, then the mothership showed creativity and a love for playing the game that I have never seen from the likes of IdrA.
I'd like to say there's not only one way to do things so just because he's not playing super standard best builds out to date every game does not by any means make him any less of a competitor than those that do, it's a difference in styles. He took a risk, it didn't pay off, but it was entertaining and ballsy as hell. I commend him for doing it under such a pressured situation compared to doing it in some random custom - anyone can and would do it in a custom.
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All the pros ganging up and complaining about the play are clearly just jealous. Sad.
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was so pleased I caught this on the stream, I couldn't stop smiling.
I really find it disappointing other top players (Idra, InSelect) are calling him an idiot for doing it.
If he'd pulled it off, would they react the same way? Or look down their nose at him?
"OH, WELL, HE STOPPED MAKING ZEALOTS AND STALKERS, SO IT WAS A LUKY WIN!"
*smokes cigar*
Seriously.
The thing that annoys me about progaming is how utterly boring the people who are progamers seem to be. And, I get it, it's a tough road and peeps gottsa be dedicated and whatever, but does it really suck the personality out of you?
It is a spectator sport, and mad props to HuK for playing on that.
There are people like HuK in every sport - it doesn't make him a "bad player" or a "good player", it means he's actually enjoying himself, in the moment, trying something a bit different, taking a chance on something the crowd or his opponent doesn't expect.
I, personally, love watching people play who clearly love the game. HuK loves it.
HuK fightiiiiinnnnnggggg.... <3
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So is their video of the casters casting the game?
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If he had won or if he had given a close match, it would have been cool. The fact that he got absolutely stomped makes it very silly and dissapointing.
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if you guys watched the whole game huk had no chance of winning even if he vortexed the enemy army correctly. the game was pretty much over when his natural got destroyed by select's first push. and the reason why his nat died wasnt because of bad unit control or mistakes - its because he tried saving up 400/400 for a mothership and simply didnt have enough units to defend, it was a guaranteed loss once select decided to move out for the first push. if huk did vortexed all of select's units correctly and moved into the base to kill buildings, his army still would have gotten completely rolled after the vortex ended.
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On October 18 2010 09:48 bLuR wrote:the people who screamed are the reason he lost
it's clearly not because he was rushing towards the worst unit in the protoss army.
CLEARLY not.
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I heard about this and checked out the game fully expecting him to win (i mean otherwise why would people be raving about it?) huge fucking facepalm moment when i realised he got steamrolled.
someone setup a show match between me and a top sc2 player so i too can build a mothership, lose horribly and be famous.
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Being in the 2nd row in the crowd, I can telling you that no one was screaming mothership. After they showed HuK and then SeleCT for a good 30 seconds, the chants of "show the game!" started. HuK asked "what are they chanting?" and thought mothership.
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On October 18 2010 14:31 PlusMinus wrote:
Being in the 2nd row in the crowd, I can telling you that no one was screaming mothership. After they showed HuK and then SeleCT for a good 30 seconds, the chants of "show the game!" started. HuK asked "what are they chanting?" and thought mothership.
Yeah that's in the video and specifically detailed in the OP but thanks for the insight man.
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The crowd is not the reason why he lost. Okay look at it this way your huk, your down 0-1 and your opponent is select who is playing some amazing tvp's taking down kiwikawki i probably spelled that wrong but no biggie. So your down a game and if you win select get's to pick the map, guess what he's going to pick 100% metropolis. So let's say they go to game 3 what the heck do you think huk is going to do vs selects unstopable tvp on metropolis. I think huk is a good player and all but just look at selects tvp's on this map it's very impressive. So why not go out with a bang if your huk put on a show your getting 3rd no matter what. Stop hating saying he threw the game. It shows that this is just a game and it can still be played for fun 
Not to mention he couldve won with it
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On October 18 2010 07:45 tocador wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2010 07:32 MrSexington wrote:On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote:
Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points. I agree. I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win. Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points. And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game." I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short. Oh well, it was entertaining. Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT. Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating.
Except that now he is part of a team that has sponsors and has certain expectations.
If it is really ok to lose for him, then he will never be the "boxer" of sc2.
Having said that, he could of won that game with a decent vortex or if he got more before getting the mothership and waited until late-game.
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As mentioned, it was unit control, and not the tech choice, that condemned HuK.
Jinro also lost to a Mothership Rush, I believe? Is it standard? Absolutely not. Is it a terrible strategy? Not unless Jinro is terrible. I, personally, think that Jinro's quite good. But that's just, you know, my opinion, man.
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On October 18 2010 08:30 MrSexington wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2010 08:19 AJMcSpiffy wrote:On October 18 2010 07:55 MrSexington wrote:On October 18 2010 07:45 tocador wrote:On October 18 2010 07:32 MrSexington wrote:On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote:
Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points. I agree. I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win. Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points. And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game." I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short. Oh well, it was entertaining. Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT. Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating. My example works for both team and solo games. The "team" part of it was the least important thing I wrote in that entire post. Try again. So it's like a champion bowler. He has practiced for months on end to bowl a perfect game. He knows every throw for every situation. He's got his custom ball and fitted shoes and is going in for the win. It's the 10th frame and he's down by 9 points (technically I think something like 29 points would be more tense of a situation in bowling but that's not important). In stead of sticking to his game plan of throwing a strike and winning, he makes a decision to make a more creative throw that (he thought) the crowd was cheering for. He gets the crowd pumped and builds excitement through the whole bowling alley. Well except for the last 4 lanes, those are reserved for a toddler's birthday party. Huk misses the strike (and the next spare, stick with me here) and leaves the tournament. The crowd is still pumped, and many will remember that throw above any other match of the night. Of course the strike throwing robot in the corner says that it was a stupid idea to not just win, but strike throwing robots can't always see that being creative is important even if it results in a loss. The whole situation feels a bit less impactful when it's taken in a solo context. The only person upset by this situation, the only person who suffered any loss, is Huk. He knew that when he decided to try the blindfolded shot, so it's not anyone's place to say they know better than him. He wanted to entertain, and mad props to him for it. He still got really far in the tournament, and decided to have fun with his last match and be an entertainer. He's still one of the top Protoss' in the world, one loss at MLG wont take that away from him. (See, now this is the correct way to respond to it what I wrote.) Speaking of more examples, I have an even better one. It's a poker player at the final table of the WSOP. It's gotten down to three-handed play. One of the players decides to go all-in on every hand. He gets a couple of good hands, but then eventually busts out. 1) Ultimately it's HuK's decision. 2) It was also very entertaining. I'm not really denying either of those points. I just know that for at least the next couple tournaments, I'm going to be looking for HuK to entertain, not necessarily to win. I'm going to be watching his games, anticipating that big, splashy move, instead of rooting for him to win the whole thing. If he does both, then great. If he doesn't, no big deal. If he doesn't care, then neither do I -- and that's my main criticism.Personally, I want to care. I mean, he seems like a nice guy.
I like to think of the movie Tin Cup. [edit: Hey, did I mention its a gold movie? No? Oh my. Hey, Tin Cup is a Movie about golf.] Good movie. Anyway, at the end of the movie our hero is down a stroke or two and is presented with a dilemma. He's got a long shot over a water hazard to win, or lay up, take an extra stroke and not win. He thinks and tries for the win. The crowd goes nuts in anticipation. He misses. Everybody is very sad. Now, with no chance of winning, he continues until, of course, on his last possible shot before elimination from the tournament he makes the hero shot, gets the girl, gets famous, cures cancer, etc. He laments his decision saying that it cost him this that and the other and feels he shouldn't have tried for it. The hero's love interest says, "Forget the tournament. In ten years they'll be talking about that shot and nobody will remember who even won."
In this case, he still looses, but that play will be remembered for years. HuK is clearly the winner here. It was a bold and creative move, this type of thing is good for e-sports. Instead of sticking with the known, go for something nobody expects. Try new things. Nobody wants to see the same old, tired play from the same old people forever. Most of the players we remember and love the most are the ones who did something new, unexpected and exciting. That is what people want to watch. That brings in new viewers, new strategies and dare I say it? MONEY. MLG and sponsors want to make money, just like any business.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/T52NS.jpg)
