Huk rolled through all of the competition undefeated until he was matched against IdrA, who beat him 2-0 in the winner's final, knocking him into the loser's bracket. [Bracket here]
His opponent, seleCT, had his own story. After being knocked into the losers bracket by Tyler, he went on to face LzGaMeR, TTOne, qxc, slush, tyler again, Kiwikaki. 12 games straight before being put up against Huk in the losers bracket finals, which would decide who would take 3rd place ($1000 prize), and who would go up against IdrA for 1st/2nd. ($2500/$1500 prize).
So we come to game one, which seleCT takes. There is a break between games during which time Day9 and DJWheat are chatting about random tourney stuff and the camera is taken off of them and put on Huk.
Then the game starts and the camera doesn't move. Finally the camera switches.... to seleCT.
At this point the crowd is getting rowdy because they can hear the the casters explaining the game's opening moves, gateway and cybernetics already down, but they are still just showing Huk and seleCT on the screen. So they start shouting "Show the game! Show the game! Show the game!" Huk, wearing headphones thinks they are shouting, "Mothership! Mothership!" and decides to mothership rush (which, important to note, he has done before in tournament play and won).
He says, "What they chanting? I think they say mothership. Not sure though" A few minutes later he says, "Not like I can go it now. If I do, you hear them cheer, then you know."
Then he throws down a stargate, and everyone gets very, very excited.
Stargate finishes, and he throws down a fleet beacon, saying, "Not mothership rofl"
Crowd goes nuts at this point, everyone feels the excitement, but hushes down because even though Huk has the zel naga tower, seleCT has been breaking through the middle rocks. At this point, the guy filming the video starts rolling, and takes it from there.
When the mothership finally comes out, there is a HUGE roar from the crowd, at this point, Huk says "tahts halo, don't worry 0_0". SeleCT was, at that very moment pushing through the center to attack and scanned ahead, right on top of the mothership and all of Huks units and responds with a curt ".." The reason Huk said the halo thing was that the large hall they were in was also hosting a halo 3 tournement, whose fans would occasionally cheer out and you could hear them quite clearly. appearanly, there were more SC2 fans than halo fans, and the sc2 fans were right next to where the players were with nothing to shield sounds but the player's headphones. So when the crowd exploded, as you hear in the video, Huk jokingly said that little epic tidbit jokingly to cover up for his mom.
It's great to see high level players show that they play for fun and entertainment sometimes despite all the tension and things on the line. I'm definitely a HuK fan.
On October 17 2010 13:20 DragonDefonce wrote: I don't get the comment about halo. Someone explain?
There was a halo tournament going on at the same time as SC2, and you could often hear the halo crowd cheer really loud. So when his mom popped out and the crowd roared, he pretended to cop it off on the halo fans.
On October 17 2010 13:21 CurLy[] wrote: You couldn't have possibly made this a bigger spoiler, bad title.
Half of TL just finished watching the game and this moment was and will be the talk of the tourney. People are looking for a video of this, so why would I not put it in the title?
Kexx I believe you are being quite harsh, I think it was simply some of Huk's personality showing through. And thats something that doesn't happen very often within the tournaments. Huk has made me a fan.
He could have won that game with better positioning, a better vortex, and if he defended his natural better (maybe covering the rocks while select was picking them off would have helped). This was not throwing the game away by any means.
I'm a huge HuK fan and was really cheering for him to win. I was pretty torn about him throwing the match with a Mothership, but I also thought it was really great that he keeps the crowd's entertainment in mind. Even the messages in-game just had me cracking up the whole time I was thinking "HuK, what the hell are you doing?!"
On October 17 2010 13:38 Pfhor wrote: He could have won that game with better positioning, a better vortex, and if he defended his natural better (maybe covering the rocks while select was picking them off would have helped). This was not throwing the game away by any means.
With the number of scans that SelecT had, his chances were pretty much non-existent, especially after his first counter push failed. I must agree that the Vortex was pretty fail. Carriers would have been a more serious and more effective strategy, though.
On October 17 2010 13:24 Kexx wrote: what a clown, knowing he can't win he starts to fuck around to get some publicity.
Things like off-the-wall strategies, riling up the crowd and constant in-game chat are often incredibly affective tactics in any sport. If you've got an opponent that is clearly superior in a straight up game but is obviously mentally drained having played 21 games in a row then this is actually a really good way to throw your opponent off his comfort zone and sneak a win. IMO it was a great strategic ploy by HuK, but his opponent was cool under pressure and it didn't work on the day.
On October 17 2010 13:38 Raislin wrote: I'm a huge HuK fan and was really cheering for him to win. I was pretty torn about him throwing the match with a Mothership, but I also thought it was really great that he keeps the crowd's entertainment in mind. Even the messages in-game just had me cracking up the whole time I was thinking "HuK, what the hell are you doing?!"
I really can't wait for the VOD to come so I can see everything he said. My SD stream messed up so much of it.
On October 17 2010 13:40 Mortician wrote: What didi he write?
From the beginning when he mistakenly thought the crowd was chanting "Mothership! Mothership!" when they were actually chanting "Show the game!" he started messaging about the crowd wanting him to go mothership. Trying to play it off like he wasn't doing it. So epic. I am such a Huk fan now.
On October 17 2010 13:49 aztrorisk wrote: I don't get it, who won this game? Didn't look like HuK won but I'm not sure.
Huk lost the game, but with this game he is a champion.
On October 17 2010 13:28 KingAce wrote: So much buzz over a terrible unit. But at least some people can enjoy Huk's inevitable demise when he decided to build the mothership.
You know... most of the buzz is over how he tried to play it off in the chat right?
On October 17 2010 14:04 koonst wrote: i hope huk continues to innovate with motherships and carriers and in the expansion one of the mother ships qoutes will be.. tahts halo, dont worry!
haha, that was awesome. I do agree it seemed as though HuK kind of threw in the towel after a long day, but we wouldn't be talking about it if he had just played it straight up. Well done to SeleCT for having great game endurance, but hell yes HuK.
I was sad that HuK didn't get to face off against IdrA again in the grand finals, but I love HuK for his personality and in general playfulness. HuK vs Gretorp was one of my favorite SC2 games, even though they weren't drawn out or epic, just for the personality both players demonstrated.
On October 17 2010 14:51 fearus wrote: What about that Mothership rush that beat Jinor in the GSL 2 prelims.
SelecT played extremely aggressively, despite the map choice, which is possibly why it didn't work at all. Plus, there's no way SelecT didn't know it was coming.
Lol siago - just go on youtube and search the game - someone probably posted the stream. The chat is very clear there.
Man I almost died laughing when I saw the move =P I didn't know what the crowd was saying either... but man.. what a think to think they were saying >_<
Haha this is the stuff I think esports needs. Huk getting the crowed into the game and all excited. It must feel awesome to have everyone chanting your name even if you lose. Because if that's the case did you really lose?!
On October 17 2010 15:04 Fluffy1 wrote: Haha this is the stuff I think esports needs. Huk getting the crowed into the game and all excited. It must feel awesome to have everyone chanting your name even if you lose. Because if that's the case did you really lose?!
Esports needs players to stop trying during incredibly important match just to please some dumbasses screaming for a mothership? I would have rather seen HuK try his ass off the beat select.
Well, I'm not sure what planet some people are living on, but I guess not everyone on the planet was watching the tourney, so I updated to OP to give the background.
Just needed some more experience in mothership spellcasting and a strategical follow up. I was convinced that HuK could have won or at least fight on par until the mistake.
He really could have won it, I think, if he hadn't misused that vortex so badly.
A well placed recall, for example, could have been game-changing.
But who am I to criticize him. He knows what he did wrong, and I just hope this doesn't dissuade him too much from using motherships properly in the future.
I understand people like seeing cool units and funny conversations. But if you really want to be a pro-gamer in a tourney like this, you should be all business while playing.
His mothership rush COULD have worked but in reality it felt like he just wasn't taking the game seriously at all, which is unfortunate for a game where people are trying to establish a strong esports foundation.
On October 17 2010 13:24 Kexx wrote: what a clown, knowing he can't win he starts to fuck around to get some publicity.
User was banned for this post and similar dick hole comments - love kennigit.
As dick as it sounds, I was live at the event and I really felt the same way. I was rooting for Huk to beat Select and it felt to me like he was giving up. I know the crowd loved it and all, but I had mixed feelings I guess. Also the tournament was lagging soo much. I'm pretty sure there was a lag spike when he messed up the vortex. We need LAN so badly
And who's the last person you know who went and watched the globetrotters?
and the last person to compare them to anyone professional?
the analogy would be more apt if he won, considering the globetrotters have lost 1 game in their history.
in a joke league.
once again, i'm not judging, and i don't care, but to idolize huk for throwing a game in a competitive tournament is just beyond me. when you're a pro, you just don't do that.
awesome video! lol that he thought he heard mothership rush from the fans and actually went through with it! if his expo hadn't been sniped that game would have been so much different!
Watching the replay, I wouldn't say he threw it just by mothership rushing.
The botched vortex was the big mistake. Those were all the units seleCT had at the moment, and Huk could have inflicted serious damage to the expo or the main while bringing in more units. But he did botch the vortex, and ended losing his army with only his mom and a cycle off his 4 gates, plus phoenix production.
Then when he tried to push again his units were all scattered about. He had phoenix to counter the vikings as well as more ground units. If he had stayed back, kept his units together, he might have had another round of reinforcements with him when select finally came for the engagement and they would not have been scattered.
I was cheering for HuK to take the game, but the misclicked Vortex made me extremely sad. Such a great game though. Everyone needs to loosen up about him "throwing the game". Probably his last chance to have a bit of fun at a major tourney before he starts GSL
On October 17 2010 16:32 stroggos wrote: The 1st game on metalopolis was much more entertaining imo.
Maybe it was just because it had been 5 hours of play beforehand, but HuK's play was just a huge relief. I'm sure after the path SelecT had to take to get there, with just hours and hours of Tournament play, a little bit of humor was welcome.
On October 17 2010 16:12 leve15 wrote: And who's the last person you know who went and watched the globetrotters?
and the last person to compare them to anyone professional?
the analogy would be more apt if he won, considering the globetrotters have lost 1 game in their history.
in a joke league.
once again, i'm not judging, and i don't care, but to idolize huk for throwing a game in a competitive tournament is just beyond me. when you're a pro, you just don't do that.
Bad analogy. What Huk did would equate to a kobe bryant or lebron james do a trick shot in a pro game, which star players do alot and the crowd always loves it. Your analogy of the globetrotters would be more like a semi-popular non-featured streamer doing a mothership rush in his stream.
On October 17 2010 16:12 leve15 wrote: And who's the last person you know who went and watched the globetrotters?
and the last person to compare them to anyone professional?
the analogy would be more apt if he won, considering the globetrotters have lost 1 game in their history.
in a joke league.
once again, i'm not judging, and i don't care, but to idolize huk for throwing a game in a competitive tournament is just beyond me. when you're a pro, you just don't do that.
Bad analogy. What Huk did would equate to a kobe bryant or lebron james do a trick shot in a pro game, which star players do alot and the crowd always loves it. Your analogy of the globetrotters would be more like a semi-popular non-featured streamer doing a mothership rush in his stream.
On October 17 2010 13:20 DragonDefonce wrote: I don't get the comment about halo. Someone explain?
There was a halo tournament going on at the same time as SC2, and you could often hear the halo crowd cheer really loud. So when his mom popped out and the crowd roared, he pretended to cop it off on the halo fans.
On October 17 2010 16:55 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Sorry guys but this was more depressing than anything. Guy tries something new PvT gets rolled by mass marauder.
On October 17 2010 16:12 leve15 wrote: And who's the last person you know who went and watched the globetrotters?
and the last person to compare them to anyone professional?
the analogy would be more apt if he won, considering the globetrotters have lost 1 game in their history.
in a joke league.
once again, i'm not judging, and i don't care, but to idolize huk for throwing a game in a competitive tournament is just beyond me. when you're a pro, you just don't do that.
Bad analogy. What Huk did would equate to a kobe bryant or lebron james do a trick shot in a pro game, which star players do alot and the crowd always loves it. Your analogy of the globetrotters would be more like a semi-popular non-featured streamer doing a mothership rush in his stream.
wasn't my analogy.
have you ever seen a pro player miss a dunk?
fans of the team get pissed.
have you ever seen a pro player throw it off the backboard and make a dunk but his team still loses? the fans at least get that show. Whether or not either of us like or dislike it the vast majority of the fans like it and therefore gives himself, his team, and esports good publicity which is more of what it needs to succeed. I totally understand peoples argument that esports needs to become more professional in order to become big but at the same time we need to remember the audience. This isn't like basketball where there are fans from little kids to the elderly.
I hadnt before any fav Sc2 players outside korean, apart from my national partner Lucifron, but holy cow, I adore HuK since yesterdays play
HuK is the MAN. He wasnt throwing the game, but dealing with the surprise factor with Select, who could have never thought that HuK would go Mothership after that talk
On October 17 2010 16:55 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Sorry guys but this was more depressing than anything. Guy tries something new PvT gets rolled by mass marauder.
Something new? He went for 1 gate FE into mothership. If he was less greedy and got more units before MS he would not have lost his nat and it would hav ebeen a different game. But the mothership "rush" made him weak. Im a P player and PvT whine makes me facepalm.
I honestly disliked Huk as a player before though I never knew anything about his personality so it was all based on his play, but after seeing his kind demeanor throughout the tournament with little things like trying to help select get set up and shaking hands after every game, he won me over. Quickly following those things, he does a mothership rush in the loser's final of one of the biggest US tournaments to please the crowd all the while joking and basically telling select what's going on, shows he loves nothing more than playing the game and having fun with it. Can't help but like the guy after all that.
[B][ Esports needs players to stop trying during incredibly important match just to please some dumbasses screaming for a mothership? I would have rather seen HuK try his ass off the beat select.
lol what? He was in the loser brackets of a tourny and decided to put on a show for the crowd and you don't like it? I guess you haven't seen the great old games of Boxer (bunker rushing yellow three times in a row etc.) that's how legends are born, playing for the crowd... sometimes you win sometimes you lose, if you don't like it, don't watch sports(Of any kind.).....
It was funny and cool and exciting but it was also a horrible decision and made it look like he had completely given up any hope of winning the tourney. If thats how he plays when theres cold hard cash on the line, he's not a player that I'll be cheering for. Too bad, cause hes pretty good at the game
Oh noes, only 1000 instead of 1500 $, let's bash on him for being so "unprofessional"... The fans, especially the hardcore ones who show up for live events, are one of the most important part of this whole thing. I think it was great, and Huk has shown enough times that he is quite able to also play to win. Was great on stream too hearing the crowd cheer, and the chat just was the icing
I just want to address how awesome HuK was for the tournament altogether. Played superbly up until idrA, was extremely gm and fun to watch.
That being said, I didn't really like that mothership play and I especially didn't like how clearly the audience showed that the opponent was doing something special. Not to take anything from SeleCT but I think(even while I was rooting for SeleCT) the crowd gave NonY's proxy robo away. There was atleast a big uproar when the casters went over to the robo and it got scouted like 30sec later by SCV scouting for proxies.
On October 17 2010 17:54 Zarahtra wrote: I just want to address how awesome HuK was for the tournament altogether. Played superbly up until idrA, was extremely gm and fun to watch.
That being said, I didn't really like that mothership play and I especially didn't like how clearly the audience showed that the opponent was doing something special. Not to take anything from SeleCT but I think(even while I was rooting for SeleCT) the crowd gave NonY's proxy robo away. There was atleast a big uproar when the casters went over to the robo and it got scouted like 30sec later by SCV scouting for proxies.
Yeh i definitely think they need progamer booths like the ones in korea to prevent this kinda stuff from happening. It would just be more classy too
I'm part of the crowd, what can I say? Sure I like to win at starcraft. Sure there was money on the line.
But the first place I was looking at that tournament anyway was for entertainment. And HuK was there to deliver it. So I'm a very happy guy. I seriously dont get why people get all worked up because he didn't go for something standard and lost. Its not like he cannon or worker rushed. Give it a rest. If he did some BM talk I would expect this from TL, but this?
In my opinion these are the three best players of the tournament + Show Spoiler +
SelecT, for his incredible stamina, dang that guy can play long at 200 apm. IdrA, for winning the tournament obviously. HuK, for reaching the winners final before losing to IdrA, then using a mothership in his last game.
On October 17 2010 17:30 Dyno. wrote: i like huk, but I'd much rather see him win than do cutesy shit. and generally speaking you can't have both against top competition.
only one person in human history could have their cake and eat it too, and that is boxer
On October 17 2010 18:00 Chaosvuistje wrote: In my opinion these are the three best players of the tournament + Show Spoiler +
SelecT, for his incredible stamina, dang that guy can play long at 200 apm. IdrA, for winning the tournament obviously. HuK, for reaching the winners final before losing to IdrA, then using a mothership in his last game.
Your opinion matches up with the standings, go figure?
I find this whole situation hilarious but honestly it's really a testament as to why players should be put in booths. It's silly that in any large match at MLG - the crowd can completely give away something a player is doing.
Not even just that either, changing huk's motives for the game as well. I have extreme doubts he was going into that game with a mothership rush build. He was swayed by the crowd and he probably lost because of it. Who knows if he would have played straight up how the game would have turned out.
All in all, fun tournament, great casting, some pretty damn good games, and these nerds to be put in glass cubes.
Huk, i'm a big fan of yours but if you can't learn to stick it out and fight to the very end, you'll never make it in Korea. Maybe i'm going on a huge leap here but it seemed like you accepted the fact that you had very little chance of beating Select and Idra. I don't mind that you mothership rushed but the way you were playfully chatting about it felt like you were treating it as a showmatch rather then a semifinal of a major tournament. Well, i'll still be cheering for you anyway. Good luck in Korea.
On October 17 2010 13:24 Kexx wrote: what a clown, knowing he can't win he starts to fuck around to get some publicity.
User was banned for this post and similar dick hole comments - love kennigit.
BLASPHEMY, HUK FIGHTINNNNG!
I find this whole situation hilarious but honestly it's really a testament as to why players should be put in booths. It's silly that in any large match at MLG - the crowd can completely give away something a player is doing.
Kind of agree, I don't know why they wouldn't put them in the booths, seems pretty cheap. The crowd excitement pretty much gave away the impending epicness Although, i'm sure the players love the crowd chanting soo I don't know if isolating them from such energy would be good.
i felt like it was a bit of a disrespectful move towards the viewers, but it is just my opinion. i want to see people give it there all, not throw games away like the way huk did.
Exactly, the mothership didn't lose him the game. It was a smart move considering the huge number of marauders and the need to use scans. But the vortex was extremely bad indeed.
On October 17 2010 17:21 kidd wrote: I honestly disliked Huk as a player before though I never knew anything about his personality so it was all based on his play, but after seeing his kind demeanor throughout the tournament with little things like trying to help select get set up and shaking hands after every game, he won me over. Quickly following those things, he does a mothership rush in the loser's final of one of the biggest US tournaments to please the crowd all the while joking and basically telling select what's going on, shows he loves nothing more than playing the game and having fun with it. Can't help but like the guy after all that.
Wow. I was the same lol. He won me over with his great sportsmanship and Mothership %)
His mothership rush wasn't as all in as a proxy 2 gate or anything, but it was obviously not a "strong" strat.
Yea he theoretically could have won if select makes a ton of micro mistakes and gives him free units, but obviously a mothership isn't that great an idea vs terran, which have strong anti-air and can scan for stealth.
On October 17 2010 18:46 Maggeus wrote: Exactly, the mothership didn't lose him the game. It was a smart move considering the huge number of marauders and the need to use scans. But the vortex was extremely bad indeed.
Going for such an early mothership left him unable to defend his expo. It was not a smart move lol, it was a hilarious one, Ill give you that. The vortex sure it was a screw up and maybe he could have come back if the vortex worked out but at that point he was 1 vs 2 base already.
I love HuK, and I think it was some good fun, but I was so depressed that he actually went through with it, it was like he'd given up. I'm sure motherships are unexplored and can net wins if it gets into practice and finds good timings, but that just felt like he'd given up, and at THAT point of the tournament - regardless if you're tired or not - it's just wrong imo.
I can see his reasoning too, but I still think it's abit depressing for a competitive person to do something like this at that point of the tournament.
Well, he sure gained a lot more fans than he lost by that move, so as long as they were worth $500 (which I'm sure they were) then it's a win for him. That said, GO HUK!
By the way, if you check Artosis GSL2 Videos, Jinro (Terran) lost to the korean dude who attacked with an early mothership on the very same map, but it must totally be a fun strat which is never going to work amirite? Maybe the mistake in that game was not the mothership, but the expansion he did with it instead of going all in :o !
On October 17 2010 17:30 Dyno. wrote: i like huk, but I'd much rather see him win than do cutesy shit. and generally speaking you can't have both against top competition.
only one person in human history could have their cake and eat it too, and that is boxer
Except that he has won a tournament before with a telegraphed mom rush. Honestly without telling select his basic build order so that select didn't really mule at all so he had 3 scans in a row it might have worked.
Honestly though watching huk play was a treat, it's nice to see at least on of the pro gamers actually look like they are doing what they love, he seems the most happy of any of them i have seen on stream while playing. That being said i hope he puts in some serious work so that he can qualify for gsl 3 and do decent, it is rare the players that are not only top players but have creativity and flair.
I am very confused as to why people think the audience influencing the game was cool. Also, going mothership lost him the game very easily and the black hole only caught his own units.
Really, Huk had to do silly chatting to mindgame out Select from knowing through the crowd that a mothership was made. Very strange and awkward. How is a mothership going to ever work without the element of surprise? Especially vs Select's style?
Considering how Huk emphasized the problem with players being able to hear the caster/crowd in the latest State of the Game I wonder if he did this to prove his point.
On October 17 2010 20:44 Grond wrote: Considering how Huk emphasized the problem with players being able to hear the caster/crowd in the latest State of the Game I wonder if he did this to prove his point.
They can hear the casters too? That's so sad to hear and basically means the integrity of those games is gone.
Remember how in Korea they called it cheating when a player picked up a tell from the audience. So was Select cheating when he attacked and killed the nexus?
When do players know something through skill and when through the audience/casters. I have quite a few moments that may be suspicious. Is changing your play based on what you hear part of the game?
On October 17 2010 20:44 Grond wrote: Considering how Huk emphasized the problem with players being able to hear the caster/crowd in the latest State of the Game I wonder if he did this to prove his point.
They can hear the casters too? That's so sad to hear and basically means the integrity of those games is gone.
Remember how in Korea they called it cheating when a player picked up a tell from the audience. So was Select cheating when he attacked and killed the nexus?
When do players know something through skill and when through the audience/casters. I have quite a few moments that may be suspicious. Is changing your play based on what you hear part of the game?
Obviously from a competitive standpoint for gaming you would not want players receiving outside influences and incorporating that to change the dynamic of the game.
But that is the responsibility of the people running the tourney, not the players.
On October 17 2010 13:08 clik wrote: It's great to see high level players show that they play for fun and entertainment sometimes despite all the tension and things on the line. I'm definitely a HuK fan.
Totally agree with that. Sometimes players forget why we actually play this game, HuK is definitely not one of them !
well i hope huk shapes up and dont lose hope in the middle of important games like this. its quite a classic choking to do what ppl want u to do in a series. regardless if ur up 1-0 or down 0-1.
if he wants to win gsl he has to start play every game to 100% with head up high win attitude and not care about what ppl want him to do.
some might call it innovating but if thats the case then its clearly just a sign of desperation, not expecting to be able to beat select in a standard game. which i dont believe in since i know how good huk is in tvp.
id have alot more respect for huk fighting with what he practiced in the ladder until the end rather than jumping completely off the standards and goes like this, sure it could have been mind games but i find that hard to believe aswell. i hope he gets more lan experience before he starts getting far into gsl because id hate to see him go like this again when hes really capable of winning vs everyone in a tour like mlg... select is a fucking beast who been winning everyone in tvp lately so i somewhat understand where huks mindset was at doing this :p
if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
On October 17 2010 21:02 MorroW wrote: well i hope huk shapes up and dont lose hope in the middle of important games like this. its quite a classic choking to do what ppl want u to do in a series. regardless if ur up 1-0 or down 0-1.
if he wants to win gsl he has to start play every game to 100% with head up high win attitude and not care about what ppl want him to do.
some might call it innovating but if thats the case then its clearly just a sign of desperation, not expecting to be able to beat select in a standard game. which i dont believe in since i know how good huk is in tvp.
id have alot more respect for huk fighting with what he practiced in the ladder until the end rather than jumping completely off the standards and goes like this, sure it could have been mind games but i find that hard to believe aswell. i hope he gets more lan experience before he starts getting far into gsl because id hate to see him go like this again when hes really capable of winning vs everyone in a tour like mlg... select is a fucking beast who been winning everyone in tvp lately so i somewhat understand where huks mindset was at doing this :p
if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
Or maybe he just wanted to have some fun
EDIT: Someone on Reddit (possibly in this thread as well, haven't read the whole thing) pointed out that HuK probably gained far more than he lost with this move as well. Yeah he ended up taking 4th and could maybe have taken 3rd, so that's a "loss" of $300 and some rank points. But he gained so much fandom and hype as a result. "tahts halo, dont worry" is going to stick around for a while, I think...
On October 17 2010 21:02 MorroW wrote: well i hope huk shapes up and dont lose hope in the middle of important games like this. its quite a classic choking to do what ppl want u to do in a series. regardless if ur up 1-0 or down 0-1.
if he wants to win gsl he has to start play every game to 100% with head up high win attitude and not care about what ppl want him to do.
some might call it innovating but if thats the case then its clearly just a sign of desperation, not expecting to be able to beat select in a standard game. which i dont believe in since i know how good huk is in tvp.
id have alot more respect for huk fighting with what he practiced in the ladder until the end rather than jumping completely off the standards and goes like this, sure it could have been mind games but i find that hard to believe aswell. i hope he gets more lan experience before he starts getting far into gsl because id hate to see him go like this again when hes really capable of winning vs everyone in a tour like mlg... select is a fucking beast who been winning everyone in tvp lately so i somewhat understand where huks mindset was at doing this :p
if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
Or maybe he just wanted to have some fun
I don't think he was trying as much for "for the win" in MLG, he already won Raleigh and was guaranteed 3rd place in DC (and had already lost to IdrA 2-0). In GSL3, I doubt he would screw around since the stakes are much higher unless it was maybe a Bo7 and he was up a couple games (plus I don't know if any Koreans really know him to chant for him lol).
On October 17 2010 21:02 MorroW wrote: well i hope huk shapes up and dont lose hope in the middle of important games like this. its quite a classic choking to do what ppl want u to do in a series. regardless if ur up 1-0 or down 0-1.
if he wants to win gsl he has to start play every game to 100% with head up high win attitude and not care about what ppl want him to do.
some might call it innovating but if thats the case then its clearly just a sign of desperation, not expecting to be able to beat select in a standard game. which i dont believe in since i know how good huk is in tvp.
id have alot more respect for huk fighting with what he practiced in the ladder until the end rather than jumping completely off the standards and goes like this, sure it could have been mind games but i find that hard to believe aswell. i hope he gets more lan experience before he starts getting far into gsl because id hate to see him go like this again when hes really capable of winning vs everyone in a tour like mlg... select is a fucking beast who been winning everyone in tvp lately so i somewhat understand where huks mindset was at doing this :p
if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
Or maybe he just wanted to have some fun
EDIT: Someone on Reddit (possibly in this thread as well, haven't read the whole thing) pointed out that HuK probably gained far more than he lost with this move as well. Yeah he ended up taking 4th and could maybe have taken 3rd, so that's a "loss" of $300 and some rank points. But he gained so much fandom and hype as a result. "tahts halo, dont worry" is going to stick around for a while, I think...
huk has told me himself that he wants to be a successful progamer, he have said so in interviews aswell. last time i checked being successful is not to have a big fanbase or attention. really doubt he travel there and fight hard in the tour and then just mothership because its fun lol, its silly u would even believe that urself. i dont think his TL liquid clan would appriciate it much for huk just to throw it to gain more fans, huk already has so many fans anyway :p
i dont actually know the mlg system if the game mattered or not but if it didnt matter then its pretty reasonable not to care:p
I think HuK was just trying to do something different since SelecT TvP is so amazingly strong. SelecT knock out TTOne 2,0, Liquid Tyler 4,3 And KiWiKaki 2,1 at mlg. You can see why he tried something out of the ordinary.
On October 17 2010 21:02 MorroW wrote: if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
I disagree with that sentiment. As a player, I understand that your goal is to win, but as a spectator my goal is to be entertained. The most entertaining player will ultimately be my favorite to watch.
Watching sports is a vicarious experience and I think StarCraft works the same way. One of the things I personally don't like about Korean players is that in general they don't look like they're having fun. A lot of the players have the same expressions after wins and losses.
Fun play like Huk's mothership rush may not have been good for him in the short run, but it's definitely gotten people talking about him and the tournament, which I would argue is good for both him and esports in the long run.
would've been great if he didn't wind up getting pwned in the end. anybody can make a mothership while they are losing, but he is still pretty baller for doing it.
On October 17 2010 21:02 MorroW wrote: if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
I disagree with that sentiment. As a player, I understand that your goal is to win, but as a spectator my goal is to be entertained. The most entertaining player will ultimately be my favorite to watch.
Watching sports is a vicarious experience and I think StarCraft works the same way. One of the things I personally don't like about Korean players is that in general they don't look like they're having fun. A lot of the players have the same expressions after wins and losses.
Fun play like Huk's mothership rush may not have been good for him in the short run, but it's definitely gotten people talking about him and the tournament, which I would argue is good for both him and esports in the long run.
It's a matter of mentality. I don't want PRO sc2 to be WWE, RTS style. I want it to be like BW, people trying to be insanely skilled and professional.
On October 17 2010 21:02 MorroW wrote: well i hope huk shapes up and dont lose hope in the middle of important games like this. its quite a classic choking to do what ppl want u to do in a series. regardless if ur up 1-0 or down 0-1.
if he wants to win gsl he has to start play every game to 100% with head up high win attitude and not care about what ppl want him to do.
some might call it innovating but if thats the case then its clearly just a sign of desperation, not expecting to be able to beat select in a standard game. which i dont believe in since i know how good huk is in tvp.
id have alot more respect for huk fighting with what he practiced in the ladder until the end rather than jumping completely off the standards and goes like this, sure it could have been mind games but i find that hard to believe aswell. i hope he gets more lan experience before he starts getting far into gsl because id hate to see him go like this again when hes really capable of winning vs everyone in a tour like mlg... select is a fucking beast who been winning everyone in tvp lately so i somewhat understand where huks mindset was at doing this :p
if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
Or maybe he just wanted to have some fun
EDIT: Someone on Reddit (possibly in this thread as well, haven't read the whole thing) pointed out that HuK probably gained far more than he lost with this move as well. Yeah he ended up taking 4th and could maybe have taken 3rd, so that's a "loss" of $300 and some rank points. But he gained so much fandom and hype as a result. "tahts halo, dont worry" is going to stick around for a while, I think...
huk has told me himself that he wants to be a successful progamer, he have said so in interviews aswell. last time i checked being successful is not to have a big fanbase or attention. really doubt he travel there and fight hard in the tour and then just mothership because its fun lol, its silly u would even believe that urself. i dont think his TL liquid clan would appriciate it much for huk just to throw it to gain more fans, huk already has so many fans anyway :p
i dont actually know the mlg system if the game mattered or not but if it didnt matter then its pretty reasonable not to care:p
Well, I do not have as much insight in professional gaming as you but what the pro-team Team Liquid members probably want is to win as much as they can, but their sponsor wants entertaining starcraft (and maybe that is what HuK wanted to at the time). (I don't know the constract, does it say win every game or you don't get payed!11!!, or is it make as many fans as possible!!!111!, probably neither). If I were to speculate I guess HuK lacked a game plan for that map or vision of success to reach a more money-rewarding position, in that position the best he could do to please his teams sponsor was to go out with a bang.
On October 17 2010 21:02 MorroW wrote: if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
I disagree with that sentiment. As a player, I understand that your goal is to win, but as a spectator my goal is to be entertained. The most entertaining player will ultimately be my favorite to watch.
Watching sports is a vicarious experience and I think StarCraft works the same way. One of the things I personally don't like about Korean players is that in general they don't look like they're having fun. A lot of the players have the same expressions after wins and losses.
Fun play like Huk's mothership rush may not have been good for him in the short run, but it's definitely gotten people talking about him and the tournament, which I would argue is good for both him and esports in the long run.
It's a matter of mentality. I don't want PRO sc2 to be WWE, RTS style. I want it to be like BW, people trying to be insanely skilled and professional.
I don't think WWE is a fair comparison, since the matches are predetermined, but you've got to admit - it's got far more fans than the other kind of wrestling ;p
On October 17 2010 21:02 MorroW wrote: if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
I disagree with that sentiment. As a player, I understand that your goal is to win, but as a spectator my goal is to be entertained. The most entertaining player will ultimately be my favorite to watch.
Watching sports is a vicarious experience and I think StarCraft works the same way. One of the things I personally don't like about Korean players is that in general they don't look like they're having fun. A lot of the players have the same expressions after wins and losses.
Fun play like Huk's mothership rush may not have been good for him in the short run, but it's definitely gotten people talking about him and the tournament, which I would argue is good for both him and esports in the long run.
well if you enjoy bad play that much more than good play maybe u should stop play the game or learn the game better so you can enjoy what the game really is, what it was meant to be. its not about cool explosions or motherships but many low level players only see rts for this shallow bullshit that they value so much over the true beauty behind rts. i guess it all goes down to if a player wants fans who like this shallow "make stuff thats bad" or ppl who actually understand the hard work and great and thought-trough play
On October 17 2010 18:34 let_FLY wrote: i felt like it was a bit of a disrespectful move towards the viewers, but it is just my opinion. i want to see people give it there all, not throw games away like the way huk did.
at any rate, that was $500 mothership
I'd pay $500 bucks to be known as the coolest Toss player in SC2 right now that isn't a slave to tedious boring builds.
On October 17 2010 17:27 nemahsys wrote: It was funny and cool and exciting but it was also a horrible decision and made it look like he had completely given up any hope of winning the tourney. If thats how he plays when theres cold hard cash on the line, he's not a player that I'll be cheering for. Too bad, cause hes pretty good at the game
It was definitely thrilling, but I couldn't help but get the sense it was mostly showboating. Maybe he didn't want to have to play Idra again, or maybe he wanted to give everyone something to cheer for. Nobody knows for sure, but it seemed out of character for a serious player at that stage of the tournament.
What I'm getting from this is that we need to have booths and noise dampeners on the players because audience cheers allow them to know when to scan. As in, the audience can indirectly influence the outcome of a game, even if they don't really mean to.
Wasn't this issue solved a long time ago by the Koreans? Let's get some sense, people.
On October 17 2010 18:34 let_FLY wrote: i felt like it was a bit of a disrespectful move towards the viewers, but it is just my opinion. i want to see people give it there all, not throw games away like the way huk did.
at any rate, that was $500 mothership
I'd pay $500 bucks to be known as the coolest Toss player in SC2 right now that isn't a slave to tedious boring builds.
I'd do the same.
Now say whatever you haters say, if anyone is to ask Huk if he would rather have lost the way he did or won with normal play, im pretty sure he would have chosen to lost.
Money isnt there for you after dieng, but glory is eternal.
On October 17 2010 21:02 MorroW wrote: if your true fans of huk you shouldnt trigger him into making motherships and playing fun, see how that ends up going (i know u didnt scream make mothership) but in general fans r always telling their players to be creative xD
I disagree with that sentiment. As a player, I understand that your goal is to win, but as a spectator my goal is to be entertained. The most entertaining player will ultimately be my favorite to watch.
Watching sports is a vicarious experience and I think StarCraft works the same way. One of the things I personally don't like about Korean players is that in general they don't look like they're having fun. A lot of the players have the same expressions after wins and losses.
Fun play like Huk's mothership rush may not have been good for him in the short run, but it's definitely gotten people talking about him and the tournament, which I would argue is good for both him and esports in the long run.
well if you enjoy bad play that much more than good play maybe u should stop play the game or learn the game better so you can enjoy what the game really is, what it was meant to be. its not about cool explosions or motherships but many low level players only see rts for this shallow bullshit that they value so much over the true beauty behind rts. i guess it all goes down to if a player wants fans who like this shallow "make stuff thats bad" or ppl who actually understand the hard work and great and thought-trough play
It's not "bad play", just to show a mothership. Huk most likely knew he wouldn't have won. That's that, so instead of trying to prolong whatever death he may experience, he decided to go out with a bang (mothership). I think that still, Huk is a great player, and you can't take that away from him. He plays really well, and the crowd apreciates the good plays and they moan and groan at the bad ones. Nothing more to it.
Starcraft II is first and foremost a game. If you aren't having fun while winning or losing, then what you do becomes boring and tedious. Its nice to see somebody like HuK who has personality and seems a lot more human than the koreans during tournaments.
On October 18 2010 00:14 echobong wrote: To all the haters: You're bitching about him throwing the game....but imagine if he won it. There's something called 'style', kids.
He couldn't win it. As soon as he decided to go and mothership rush in those circumstances, he was fully aware it's going to be a loss.
What I find funny is HuK saying on the last State of the Game 'It was obvious I was going to lose with mothership rush', to later change his story and argue that he managed to win against Drewbie with the same tactic, meaning that he was thinking he can win against SeleCT too.
I'm not hating on HuK, I really think he has a lot of potential and can do great things in SC2, but he needs a winners mentality, where he believes he can take on whoever comes against him. Doing cute little stuff in semifinals and losing because of it might get him some new fans, but won't do him any good in the long run.
I'm a 43 year old who plays SC2 for fun and because I appreciate the skill it takes to play it on the GSL/IEM/MLG level. I'm a pretty bad Silver league player who is starting to switch to Zerg from Protoss. Here are my views on the Huk VS Select
1. Huk knew he had no game for Idra if he happened to defeat Select. 2. Select handled Huk rather easily in game 1. 3. Huk probably felt, he couldn't win 2 in a row against Select using standard strats. 4. Huk is a showman and definitely put on a show. 5. Other than Idra dominating the field and Select making an incredible run through the LB, I will remember this game most fondly.
Mad props to select for taking down THREE protoss powerhouses in a row, first Tyler in a epic BO5, then KiwiKaki and then HuK, totally saving terrans that tourney I'm a total fan <3
Booths or headphones, or both. The idea of hiding away players in another room is just absurd, it's the reason people go to LAN's to see and meet players and it's what MLG wants to see, big crowds. idra incontrol qxc and all the other players coming out to the crowd to just sit with everyone and watch games is awesome. If you put players in a separate room the best view of the game will be at home watching the stream.
Aside from all the other reasons, I wonder if HuK also just felt that SeleCT deserved at least second place after playing as many games as he did. SeleCT's schedule was simply brutal.
On October 18 2010 01:35 Firebolt145 wrote: Aside from all the other reasons, I wonder if HuK also just felt that SeleCT deserved at least second place after playing as many games as he did. SeleCT's schedule was simply brutal.
On October 18 2010 01:00 Pudge_172 wrote: I'm a 43 year old who plays SC2 for fun and because I appreciate the skill it takes to play it on the GSL/IEM/MLG level. I'm a pretty bad Silver league player who is starting to switch to Zerg from Protoss. Here are my views on the Huk VS Select
1. Huk knew he had no game for Idra if he happened to defeat Select. 2. Select handled Huk rather easily in game 1. 3. Huk probably felt, he couldn't win 2 in a row against Select using standard strats. 4. Huk is a showman and definitely put on a show. 5. Other than Idra dominating the field and Select making an incredible run through the LB, I will remember this game most fondly.
Huk Fighting!!!
Oh man! I'm 32 and thought I was the oldest gamer on this board! GG
You know... I think HuK was planning to use that strat ahead of time, and he thought he actually had a chance to win with it.
Why else would he chose Scrap Station as the map? He probably hoped for select to not play so aggressive as to break the rocks in the middle, and if he was able to get the mothership out before he lost his natural first time, imo he could have won that game.
On October 18 2010 01:00 Pudge_172 wrote: I'm a 43 year old who plays SC2 for fun and because I appreciate the skill it takes to play it on the GSL/IEM/MLG level.
Oh man! I'm 32 and thought I was the oldest gamer on this board! GG
Lol, I would guess we are quite some 1978 dudes here. :p
Great video, I got goosebumps from the crowd reaction, but the guy on the vid reminded me too much of the double rainbow guy.
On October 18 2010 01:40 Wonderballs wrote: Why is there no hero unit for z or t?
Mothership should have a moving psi field too
Also... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA go HuK-daddy
The Thor was supposed to be built as a structure that would create a structure when dead and the Queen was supposed to upgrade like the Hive Tyrant from DoWII.
But then they figured borrowing ideas from Supreme Commander and DoW was too awesome because they were shooting for something that was 'evolutionary' instead of 'revolutionary' or something.
Well, that cheer was weaker than I thought it would be. Maybe the sound on the video camera didn't do it justice. I didn't see this live or on MLG's stream.
Anyway, I don't know why everyone is getting so down on him. He tried an insane tactic that didn't work (yes, partially to be perceived as "cool"). Moderate risk/huge reward scenario. If it DID work, he'd be a legend in SC2 forever. But sadly, it didn't. Boo hoo. He still gains a ton of notoriety at the expense of losing in the LB finals of one tournament. It's not like 1+ years ago when there were only a handful of important events in which foreigners could participate. I'm sure he will really be beating himself up while preparing for all the tournaments he's in over the next few weeks.
He didn't give up. That's different than thinking to yourself, "Well, there's a 90% chance this won't work... but maybe..."
Giving up would have been making a BO mistake and then immediately gg'ing, or something.
Mad props to select for taking down THREE protoss powerhouses in a row, first Tyler in a epic BO5, then KiwiKaki and then HuK, totally saving terrans that tourney I'm a total fan <3
Also, the prize pool is split between 4 players and a coach.
Really I wish HuK wouldnt have mothership rushed, because I don't think its that cool anymore. If he would of won than it would have been awesome.. but it seemed like a white flag when it happened so I was against it.
I give Huk props for it, I think it really did have potential to work, though Select was mostly outplaying him with standard builds. (and every other protoss) I watched all those matches and honestly I was getting soooo bored of watching Select, every game against protoss was probably 98% identical. (Nothing against Select, he is killer with his timing/coordination & stamina to play so consistently through so many matches)
I just don't think Huk has actually practiced with mothership enough(I know he has done it before, but I seriously doubt he has spent 8 hours a day practicing with it), more familiarity with its speed when to inch it forward try to get T to waste scans, etc... when to push with the units past it, pull them back. The way he miss cast the vortex and then let it get separated (and killed) gave away that he just hasn't mastered its usage. Obviously should have carrier rushed... =)
You are a corporation looking to sponsor one person. Who do you sponsor? A) Someone who plays very standard, and wins very plain, albeit dominating matches B) Someone that can win a match with standard play, but also plays to the crowd and puts on a show, getting infinitely more exposure?
On October 17 2010 18:34 let_FLY wrote: i felt like it was a bit of a disrespectful move towards the viewers, but it is just my opinion. i want to see people give it there all, not throw games away like the way huk did.
at any rate, that was $500 mothership
I'd pay $500 bucks to be known as the coolest Toss player in SC2 right now that isn't a slave to tedious boring builds.
I'd do the same.
Now say whatever you haters say, if anyone is to ask Huk if he would rather have lost the way he did or won with normal play, im pretty sure he would have chosen to lost.
Money isnt there for you after dieng, but glory is eternal.
i would much rather be known for winning 2 MLG's in a row then losing to a failed mothership rush. But it was entertaining. If it was me I would want another go at IdrA.
On October 17 2010 18:34 let_FLY wrote: i felt like it was a bit of a disrespectful move towards the viewers, but it is just my opinion. i want to see people give it there all, not throw games away like the way huk did.
at any rate, that was $500 mothership
I'd pay $500 bucks to be known as the coolest Toss player in SC2 right now that isn't a slave to tedious boring builds.
I'd do the same.
Now say whatever you haters say, if anyone is to ask Huk if he would rather have lost the way he did or won with normal play, im pretty sure he would have chosen to lost.
Money isnt there for you after dieng, but glory is eternal.
i would much rather be known for winning 2 MLG's in a row then losing to a failed mothership rush. But it was entertaining. If it was me I would want another go at IdrA.
That's weird coming from a guy with that nick
Do u remember Boxer's SCV rush against YelloW ? if it failed we would have probably guys blaming him for throwing away a game like that but instead he won and got praised.
On October 18 2010 02:46 Cybren wrote: You are a corporation looking to sponsor one person. Who do you sponsor? A) Someone who plays very standard, and wins very plain, albeit dominating matches B) Someone that can win a match with standard play, but also plays to the crowd and puts on a show, getting infinitely more exposure?
Flash makes a lot of money... and huk placed third.
While I agree it was a suboptimal choice he didn't necessarily give the game away by going Mothership. With a really good Vortex he could have made it work.
Some of you guys need a sense of humour. Yeah, fine, he probably shouldn't mothership rush every game, but every now and then it's ok to do something weird. For all we know it might have worked. and if it didn't, who cares? It's one fucking game... it's not going to destroy your capability to play starcraft at a godly level the rest of the time.
On October 18 2010 04:22 ToxNub wrote: Some of you guys need a sense of humour. Yeah, fine, he probably shouldn't mothership rush every game, but every now and then it's ok to do something weird. For all we know it might have worked. and if it didn't, who cares? It's one fucking game... it's not going to destroy your capability to play starcraft at a godly level the rest of the time.
On djWheat's show today, everyone (including idra) called HuK a retard. He's not going to be respected by other players for acting like a clown when he knows he's going to lose.
Some of you guys need a sense of humour. Yeah, fine, he probably shouldn't mothership rush every game, but every now and then it's ok to do something weird. For all we know it might have worked. and if it didn't, who cares? It's one fucking game... it's not going to destroy your capability to play starcraft at a godly level the rest of the time.
That's not the issue.
He gave his strategy away and was completely unprofessional about it.
If you remember a certain thread a while back, huk was down on himself saying things like "i'll never make it" and stuff like that.
i stayed with huk during this MLG and he was really torn about this himself. here's what i've concluded, and you should listen because LOL i have a red name and thus hopefully some credibility:
- huk is confident. he practices 8 hours a day on his own even without the environment of a training house (yet) and has won in high profile, pressure-filled situations before, like last MLG or his return from being down 0-2 against drewbie at IEM. it's out of the question that he threw the match out of fear (also of idra), absolutely
- huk hates losing. i've seen progamers say this in person quite a few times now, and they say it always with that same surprising vehemence. it is incredibly unlikely he just gave up and saw the crowd as an excuse for why he lost - he jokes a lot, but once you meet him he's really really obviously an upstanding person and it just conflicts too much.
what it comes down to is that he did not have much of a conscious choice here. things like this are decided not by judgment but just by personality and who you are, and the moment he made the stargate it was probably the only option he saw - just like how many of you find it preposterous that ANYONE would EVER do this.
though i agree with idra and incontrol in that it was "really fucking stupid", unlike them i also think it was incredibly admirable. from my seat all the way up front i felt a palpable stream of love from across the entire crowd flowing towards huk. to them, it was a genuine, human charisma that beamed out and connected them to an actual player. even i clapped when the MOM popped, despite thinking "what the hell is he doing are you serious WHAT IF HE LOSES" the entire time it was building.
the fact that there's eleven pages now on a single game shows how the history of sc2 is being made constantly. i'm quite proud he did what he did, even though he's probably still regretting it! it is AWESOME for promoting interest in this whole serious business of ESPORTS that we dabble in here. haters gonna hate, but they'll still know his name. his fans are never going shut up about him being the peoples' champion now, it's gonna be utterly disgusting to have to listen to over and over.
PS: not trying to hype him up and say that he made some noble sacrifice, but was simply being who he was - apparently a very lovable person. huk, you like this e-peen stroking?
On October 18 2010 04:22 ToxNub wrote: Some of you guys need a sense of humour. Yeah, fine, he probably shouldn't mothership rush every game, but every now and then it's ok to do something weird. For all we know it might have worked. and if it didn't, who cares? It's one fucking game... it's not going to destroy your capability to play starcraft at a godly level the rest of the time.
On djWheat's show today, everyone (including idra) called HuK a retard. He's not going to be respected by other players for acting like a clown when he knows he's going to lose.
Yeah, because Idra has the most imaginative play ever, I would have totally expected his endorsement. The same guy that doesn't think that anything but macro play is valid.
Seriously, if people are going to ride his ass for 1 game with an unconventional strat and talk a bunch of shit about his "attitude" and other stupid nonsense then maybe the SC2 pros are a bunch of anal nerds? Why would you even want their respect?
On October 18 2010 04:22 ToxNub wrote: Some of you guys need a sense of humour. Yeah, fine, he probably shouldn't mothership rush every game, but every now and then it's ok to do something weird. For all we know it might have worked. and if it didn't, who cares? It's one fucking game... it's not going to destroy your capability to play starcraft at a godly level the rest of the time.
On djWheat's show today, everyone (including idra) called HuK a retard. He's not going to be respected by other players for acting like a clown when he knows he's going to lose.
Yeah, because Idra has the most imaginative play ever, I would have totally expected his endorsement. The same guy that doesn't think that anything but macro play is valid.
Seriously, if people are going to ride his ass for 1 game with an unconventional strat and talk a bunch of shit about his "attitude" and other stupid nonsense then maybe the SC2 pros are a bunch of anal nerds? Why would you even want their respect?
Nearly everyone on the show today agreed that HuK was a retard, not just idra. How is building a mothership and losing imaginative? Huk's done his fail mothership in the past as well. Idra's hydra/spine game against HuK was much more impressive.
On October 18 2010 02:46 Cybren wrote: You are a corporation looking to sponsor one person. Who do you sponsor? A) Someone who plays very standard, and wins very plain, albeit dominating matches B) Someone that can win a match with standard play, but also plays to the crowd and puts on a show, getting infinitely more exposure?
Flash makes a lot of money... and huk placed third.
Flash is not playing in an up and coming market competing for attention
On October 18 2010 04:25 intrigue wrote: i stayed with huk during this MLG and he was really torn about this himself. here's what i've concluded, and you should listen because LOL i have a red name and thus hopefully some credibility:
- huk is confident. he practices 8 hours a day on his own even without the environment of a training house (yet) and has won in high profile, pressure-filled situations before, like last MLG or his return from being down 0-2 against drewbie at IEM. it's out of the question that he threw the match out of fear (also of idra), absolutely
- huk hates losing. i've seen progamers say this in person quite a few times now, and they say it always with that same surprising vehemence. it is incredibly unlikely he just gave up and saw the crowd as an excuse for why he lost - he jokes a lot, but once you meet him he's really really obviously an upstanding person and it just conflicts too much.
what it comes down to is that he did not have much of a conscious choice here. things like this are decided not by judgment but just by personality and who you are, and the moment he made the stargate it was probably the only option he saw - just like how many of you find it preposterous that ANYONE would EVER do this.
though i agree with idra and incontrol in that it was "really fucking stupid", unlike them i also think it was incredibly admirable. from my seat all the way up front i felt a palpable stream of love from across the entire crowd flowing towards huk. to them, it was a genuine, human charisma that beamed out and connected them to an actual player. even i clapped when the MOM popped, despite thinking "what the hell is he doing are you serious WHAT IF HE LOSES" the entire time it was building.
the fact that there's eleven pages now on a single game shows how the history of sc2 is being made constantly. i'm quite proud he did what he did, even though he's probably still regretting it! it is AWESOME for promoting interest in this whole serious business of ESPORTS that we dabble in here. haters gonna hate, but they'll still know his name. his fans are never going shut up about him being the peoples' champion now, it's gonna be utterly disgusting to have to listen to over and over.
PS: not trying to hype him up and say that he made some noble sacrifice, but was simply being who he was - apparently a very lovable person. huk, you like this e-peen stroking?
On October 18 2010 02:46 Cybren wrote: You are a corporation looking to sponsor one person. Who do you sponsor? A) Someone who plays very standard, and wins very plain, albeit dominating matches B) Someone that can win a match with standard play, but also plays to the crowd and puts on a show, getting infinitely more exposure?
Flash makes a lot of money... and huk placed third.
Flash is not playing in an up and coming market competing for attention
Flash is also a pro-gamer that takes his current profession very seriously.
it was a genuine, human charisma that beamed out and connected them to an actual player. even i clapped when the MOM popped, despite thinking "what the hell is he doing are you serious WHAT IF HE LOSES" the entire time it was building.
This is exactly what I was feeling while I was watching on the stream. I think he shouldn't have gone for the mothership rush, but I love him for doing it.
On October 18 2010 04:22 ToxNub wrote: Some of you guys need a sense of humour. Yeah, fine, he probably shouldn't mothership rush every game, but every now and then it's ok to do something weird. For all we know it might have worked. and if it didn't, who cares? It's one fucking game... it's not going to destroy your capability to play starcraft at a godly level the rest of the time.
On djWheat's show today, everyone (including idra) called HuK a retard. He's not going to be respected by other players for acting like a clown when he knows he's going to lose.
HuK gave the fans entertainment and that is what they are ultimately there for right? Yeah, it was a risk and kind of silly, but yet the crowd is entertained. If he succeeded, just imagine how many more pages this thread would be. However, he failed yet it is still the most talked about game at MLG. Seems like a win win for HuK and the fans.
On October 18 2010 04:22 ToxNub wrote: Some of you guys need a sense of humour. Yeah, fine, he probably shouldn't mothership rush every game, but every now and then it's ok to do something weird. For all we know it might have worked. and if it didn't, who cares? It's one fucking game... it's not going to destroy your capability to play starcraft at a godly level the rest of the time.
On djWheat's show today, everyone (including idra) called HuK a retard. He's not going to be respected by other players for acting like a clown when he knows he's going to lose.
HuK gave the fans entertainment and that is what they are ultimately there for right?
Hockey would be a good comparison, some people go for the hope that fights will break loose, others are actually a fan of the sport at a professional level.
Some people love sc2 as a competitive game, others wanna see neat doodads and fancy plays.
Whatever. It was just one game. This alone doesn't relegate him to a "retard". Wasn't Idra banned from (or at least close to jeopardizing) an entire tournament because of his bad behavior? Yet nobody is giving him shit for that now.
One can always become better, and Huk can definitely do that. Go Huk!
On October 18 2010 04:25 intrigue wrote: i stayed with huk during this MLG and he was really torn about this himself. here's what i've concluded, and you should listen because LOL i have a red name and thus hopefully some credibility:
- huk is confident. he practices 8 hours a day on his own even without the environment of a training house (yet) and has won in high profile, pressure-filled situations before, like last MLG or his return from being down 0-2 against drewbie at IEM. it's out of the question that he threw the match out of fear (also of idra), absolutely
- huk hates losing. i've seen progamers say this in person quite a few times now, and they say it always with that same surprising vehemence. it is incredibly unlikely he just gave up and saw the crowd as an excuse for why he lost - he jokes a lot, but once you meet him he's really really obviously an upstanding person and it just conflicts too much.
what it comes down to is that he did not have much of a conscious choice here. things like this are decided not by judgment but just by personality and who you are, and the moment he made the stargate it was probably the only option he saw - just like how many of you find it preposterous that ANYONE would EVER do this.
though i agree with idra and incontrol in that it was "really fucking stupid", unlike them i also think it was incredibly admirable. from my seat all the way up front i felt a palpable stream of love from across the entire crowd flowing towards huk. to them, it was a genuine, human charisma that beamed out and connected them to an actual player. even i clapped when the MOM popped, despite thinking "what the hell is he doing are you serious WHAT IF HE LOSES" the entire time it was building.
the fact that there's eleven pages now on a single game shows how the history of sc2 is being made constantly. i'm quite proud he did what he did, even though he's probably still regretting it! it is AWESOME for promoting interest in this whole serious business of ESPORTS that we dabble in here. haters gonna hate, but they'll still know his name. his fans are never going shut up about him being the peoples' champion now, it's gonna be utterly disgusting to have to listen to over and over.
PS: not trying to hype him up and say that he made some noble sacrifice, but was simply being who he was - apparently a very lovable person. huk, you like this e-peen stroking?
On October 18 2010 04:25 intrigue wrote: i stayed with huk during this MLG and he was really torn about this himself. here's what i've concluded, and you should listen because LOL i have a red name and thus hopefully some credibility:
- huk is confident. he practices 8 hours a day on his own even without the environment of a training house (yet) and has won in high profile, pressure-filled situations before, like last MLG or his return from being down 0-2 against drewbie at IEM. it's out of the question that he threw the match out of fear (also of idra), absolutely
- huk hates losing. i've seen progamers say this in person quite a few times now, and they say it always with that same surprising vehemence. it is incredibly unlikely he just gave up and saw the crowd as an excuse for why he lost - he jokes a lot, but once you meet him he's really really obviously an upstanding person and it just conflicts too much.
what it comes down to is that he did not have much of a conscious choice here. things like this are decided not by judgment but just by personality and who you are, and the moment he made the stargate it was probably the only option he saw - just like how many of you find it preposterous that ANYONE would EVER do this.
though i agree with idra and incontrol in that it was "really fucking stupid", unlike them i also think it was incredibly admirable. from my seat all the way up front i felt a palpable stream of love from across the entire crowd flowing towards huk. to them, it was a genuine, human charisma that beamed out and connected them to an actual player. even i clapped when the MOM popped, despite thinking "what the hell is he doing are you serious WHAT IF HE LOSES" the entire time it was building.
the fact that there's eleven pages now on a single game shows how the history of sc2 is being made constantly. i'm quite proud he did what he did, even though he's probably still regretting it! it is AWESOME for promoting interest in this whole serious business of ESPORTS that we dabble in here. haters gonna hate, but they'll still know his name. his fans are never going shut up about him being the peoples' champion now, it's gonna be utterly disgusting to have to listen to over and over.
PS: not trying to hype him up and say that he made some noble sacrifice, but was simply being who he was - apparently a very lovable person. huk, you like this e-peen stroking?
I'm the guy who made this video and I'd just like to thank everybody for being awesome and flesh out a few details.
1.) My brother has not seen or played SC2 and from the beginning of that game on Scrap Station I was trying to talk him through it. We were also talking to all the people around us so that's why I seem so chatty and obnoxious LOL. and once I realized HuK was going for the MOM I whipped my camera out as fast as I could and our collective conversations just kind of became songs of HuK praise. It was REALLY exciting, seriously. I'm proud that I still managed to form coherent sentences ;]
2.) I was also exhausted when I shot this video. Seriously, running on nothing but Doritos and Dr. Pepper (they were giving it out for free LOL). It was also pretty crowded so that's why it's so shaky. I'm usually a real stickler about quality control ;]
3.) For everyone who thinks HuK was being unprofessional and that he made a stupid move and all that:
What he did was epic. Period. He's a true competitor and people who play against him are going to have what he did on their minds (especially on scrap station LOL). HuK has a big bag of tricks! Beyond that, it was the most entertaining moment I've ever witnessed in pro-gaming and someone should send him a fruit basket haha THANKS HUK!
4.) There was horrendous lag and network trouble all throughout this tournament. The first game between Idra and qxc seriously just ended because the network broke, which is totally unacceptable at this kind of venue. I wouldn't be surprised if that vortex landed in a bad spot because of a nasty lag spike -_- As for sound proofing, yeah, MLG needs to get on that if they want to be taken seriously. That is just a simple fact.
anyways, this weekend was a TON of fun and thanks again for the budding-videographer-related feedback! ;]
Look, in a growing community like esports, we need fan pleasing games like this to boost it's popularity, it's like someone said on djwheat, this is the one game everyone is going to remember in a years time.
Tournament couldn't have ended better in respect to the top 3. 1 -IdrA was just a level above everyone else. 2 -SeleCT worked the hardest that day, put on quite a show. After 20ish odd games I didn't expect him to be up to taking down IdrA in two Bo3's. Perhaps if he was rested it would've been closer. 3 -HuK definitely had his chance to take down IdrA. he got outplayed there badly and his performance just plummeted afterward. After a lost position doing what he did, mad props for that.
Notable mention to KiWiKaKi. Very impressed with his style throughout the tournament.
I don't know this doesn't boost the popularity except for people who understand what a mothership is and what it means to build one in a 1v1 game.
But, I do think there is a time and place for having this kind of fun (funky build orders, etc). In tourny's you should play to win, IMO. Therefore, I'd be interested in seeing if HuK actually thought the plan was viable. Then I respect him for trying something unique and creative in such a pressure situation. If his take on it has been posted anywhere super intrigued to read that. He could win me over after his bad day on livestream.
It was a long day, a filled hall, wonderful atmosphere, vibrating. And Huk, obviously a smart and nice guy, decided to play! To catch the moment and go for it, have some fun. I am sure, he wont make this a bad habit (bad in the sense of professionalism). I am sure that he will be a wonderful and responsible clan mate. Damn, this was a single players tournament, this was his moment. In the glas cabins of the GSL this wouldnt had happen, but the MLG, so noisy, so different inspired him to do so.
IdrA said "this was fucking stupid"? Oh really? Why, because of losing for one time the chance on 500$ or 1500$ more? Or because he wanted to play Huk in the finals? Or because he considers Huk's behavior an offense against his (IdrA's) believes? However, it's in the eye of the beholder. The comment says a lot about Mr. Fields.
Anyhow: as a professional Huk has to know when he wants to have a break and enjoy the moment. In a single players tournament it's solely his decission. Is this weakness? Or is it strenght. As a human being, he should know who he wants to be. Being himself he will get the love of the people that are fiting to him and he will be adored by precious people.
"Are you regreting it Huk?" That's the only meaningful question I can pose.
I've been thinking a lot about this since I saw the game last night, and i've been wavering on where I stand. Ultimately, I think that this infamous game will be more beneficial to HuK than the extra $500 or the second place finish was. It's given him a lot of buzz, and will only add to the momentum of his "people's champion" rep. Yes, Idra played beyond amazingly, but i for one won't be sending replays of the finals matches to my friends saying "OMG look at this amazing game I got to watch live! It's sick!" which I will absolutely do for HuK's game,
If winning is more important to him than being entertaining then it was a bad decision.
"You play to win the games, thats the good thing about sports, you don't play to just play you play to win. Hello!" Herm Edwards
He said he wouldn't do it in a tournament like GSL. Credit to Select for winning. He won the game. He played better. I'm not gonna sit here drooling at Huk for losing a game.
I'm a fan of his, but not for reasons like this. I hope he can continue to do well and incorporate cute and unique play into wins.
I'm sorry, but HuK vs. SelecT game 2 was worth watching an SD stream for 6 hours straight. IdrA can go Huk himself. Huk Fighting! Haha
So I don't get banned, I gotta say that I think that at a tournament where the players can hear the crowd, why not be a people pleaser? As is obvious after the game, the crowd didn't give a crap that HuK lost, they loved the game! Why should anyone who didn't go to D.C. to watch the game matter? Starcraft 2 is meant to be a spectator sport. If the spectators don't matter, then what?
I don't think HuK cares that he walked away with $1000 dollars, do you? He already won one MLG anyway. Popularity beats tournament wins, every time.
I lost a lot of respect for Huk when he did that. He eliminated himself from the tournament. All these "he did it because he wanted to have fun" posts are kinda disheartening because Huk needs to prove that he deserves to keep playing Starcraft 2 and he can't do that by throwing away games.
Everyone thought it was awesome and blah blah blah. Some fans thought it was cool... others... not so much.
Possibly would have been a great thing for him if he had won but he didn't. He didn't even come close. He threw down a vortex and sucked in 90% of his army then leaves it in the middle to get picked off. I think I have seen bronze players play better than that.
On October 18 2010 06:03 anomaly0 wrote: I lost a lot of respect for Huk when he did that. He eliminated himself from the tournament. All these "he did it because he wanted to have fun" posts are kinda disheartening because Huk needs to prove that he deserves to keep playing Starcraft 2 and he can't do that by throwing away games.
Deserves to keep playing Starcraft 2? Are you fucking mental? He does not have to this or that to 'deserve' to play Starcraft 2 and nobody can dictate to him how he wants and should play the game.
Noone else than me that was thinking the he'd pull it off if he would've mass teleported into his base, with a few probes aswell for pylons and eventual cannons if he prepared with a forge? Felt like he gave it away a bit since he has played better with MS before (like vs Drewbie).
I was mighty entertained and it could've worked for sure. But he was kind of led into it and just seized the moment. Go HuK!
On October 18 2010 06:03 anomaly0 wrote: I lost a lot of respect for Huk when he did that. He eliminated himself from the tournament. All these "he did it because he wanted to have fun" posts are kinda disheartening because Huk needs to prove that he deserves to keep playing Starcraft 2 and he can't do that by throwing away games.
Deserves to keep playing Starcraft 2? Are you fucking mental? He does not have to this or that to 'deserve' to play Starcraft 2 and nobody can dictate to him how he wants and should play the game.
He would of been a lot closer if he could of saved his natural.
I was so pleased I caught this on the stream, I couldn't stop smiling.
I really find it disappointing other top players (Idra, InSelect) are calling him an idiot for doing it. If he'd pulled it off, would they react the same way? Or look down their nose at him? "OH, WELL, HE STOPPED MAKING ZEALOTS AND STALKERS, SO IT WAS A LUKY WIN!" *smokes cigar*
Seriously.
The thing that annoys me about progaming is how utterly boring the people who are progamers seem to be. And, I get it, it's a tough road and peeps gottsa be dedicated and whatever, but does it really suck the personality out of you?
It is a spectator sport, and mad props to HuK for playing on that.
There are people like HuK in every sport - it doesn't make him a "bad player" or a "good player", it means he's actually enjoying himself, in the moment, trying something a bit different, taking a chance on something the crowd or his opponent doesn't expect.
I, personally, love watching people play who clearly love the game. HuK loves it.
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
Oh well, it was entertaining.
Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT.
Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating.
At the end of the day, I don't think grandstanding is going to help extend the life of the game.
A dude flew from Korea and another dude played 5 straight sets to get to that point of competition. To be honest, it makes the tournament look a little bush league.
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
Oh well, it was entertaining.
Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT.
Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating.
My example works for both team and solo games.
The "team" part of it was actually the least important thing I wrote in that entire post and you somehow managed to cherry pick it from everything else.
I dont understand how anyone could be upset at HuK for trying to put on a memorable show, it was his shot, he got himself there, he can do what he wants. No disrespect to MLG but even at this stage the SC2 scene hasnt matured and defined itself enough to demand stern integrity from every 'professional' who makes a public appearance, people are still learning, still having fun with its immediate novelties. Formality will be reciprocated in the right environments- sound booths, depth of competition, prize money. This example shouldnt be a reflection on HuK's approach to professional gaming.
At the same time I dont think this calls for "mad props" either, what he did was gimmicky throughout.
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
Oh well, it was entertaining.
Damn dude you got the Lakers strategy down pat it seems.
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
Oh well, it was entertaining.
Damn dude you got the Lakers strategy down pat it seems.
On October 18 2010 08:00 FireBlast! wrote: I dont understand how anyone could be upset at HuK for trying to put on a memorable show, it was his shot, he got himself there, he can do what he wants.
Fair enough. But I'm the type of fan that wants to see the best play at their best.
Watching and knowing a player is not playing at their level is as disappointing as watching Robert DeNiro phoning it in during a movie. You recognize their talent, want to be be a fan, but after a while it's like, "He's making a THIRD FOCKERS MOVIE? Why is he wasting everyone's time?"
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
Oh well, it was entertaining.
Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT.
Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating.
My example works for both team and solo games.
The "team" part of it was the least important thing I wrote in that entire post.
Try again.
So it's like a champion bowler. He has practiced for months on end to bowl a perfect game. He knows every throw for every situation. He's got his custom ball and fitted shoes and is going in for the win.
It's the 10th frame and he's down by 9 points (technically I think something like 29 points would be more tense of a situation in bowling but that's not important).
In stead of sticking to his game plan of throwing a strike and winning, he makes a decision to make a more creative throw that (he thought) the crowd was cheering for. He gets the crowd pumped and builds excitement through the whole bowling alley. Well except for the last 4 lanes, those are reserved for a toddler's birthday party.
Huk misses the strike (and the next spare, stick with me here) and leaves the tournament. The crowd is still pumped, and many will remember that throw above any other match of the night. Of course the strike throwing robot in the corner says that it was a stupid idea to not just win, but strike throwing robots can't always see that being creative is important even if it results in a loss.
The whole situation feels a bit less impactful when it's taken in a solo context. The only person upset by this situation, the only person who suffered any loss, is Huk. He knew that when he decided to try the blindfolded shot, so it's not anyone's place to say they know better than him. He wanted to entertain, and mad props to him for it. He still got really far in the tournament, and decided to have fun with his last match and be an entertainer. He's still one of the top Protoss' in the world, one loss at MLG wont take that away from him.
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
Oh well, it was entertaining.
Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT.
Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating.
My example works for both team and solo games.
The "team" part of it was the least important thing I wrote in that entire post.
Try again.
Your analogy is actually quite solid. However, it fails to account for the fact that HuK is *really good* at shooting 3-pointers. He had the larger army before his natural got rolled. If his units were positioned correctly, his natural could have been saved, and that wouldn't have been a Mothership Rush, but rather a fairly standard mothership push with a transition into... carriers. Or something. Or another mothership. I don't know what he would have transitioned into, but it wouldn't have been unsalvageable
Even when his natural was roflstomped, he still could have won if he had effectively vortexed SeleCT's army. That didn't happen, and the gg came.
It's not the decision to go mothership that was flawed. It was the unit control.
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
Oh well, it was entertaining.
Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT.
Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating.
My example works for both team and solo games.
The "team" part of it was the least important thing I wrote in that entire post.
Try again.
So it's like a champion bowler. He has practiced for months on end to bowl a perfect game. He knows every throw for every situation. He's got his custom ball and fitted shoes and is going in for the win.
It's the 10th frame and he's down by 9 points (technically I think something like 29 points would be more tense of a situation in bowling but that's not important).
In stead of sticking to his game plan of throwing a strike and winning, he makes a decision to make a more creative throw that (he thought) the crowd was cheering for. He gets the crowd pumped and builds excitement through the whole bowling alley. Well except for the last 4 lanes, those are reserved for a toddler's birthday party.
Huk misses the strike (and the next spare, stick with me here) and leaves the tournament. The crowd is still pumped, and many will remember that throw above any other match of the night. Of course the strike throwing robot in the corner says that it was a stupid idea to not just win, but strike throwing robots can't always see that being creative is important even if it results in a loss.
The whole situation feels a bit less impactful when it's taken in a solo context. The only person upset by this situation, the only person who suffered any loss, is Huk. He knew that when he decided to try the blindfolded shot, so it's not anyone's place to say they know better than him. He wanted to entertain, and mad props to him for it. He still got really far in the tournament, and decided to have fun with his last match and be an entertainer. He's still one of the top Protoss' in the world, one loss at MLG wont take that away from him.
(See, now this is the correct way to respond to it what I wrote.)
Speaking of more examples, I have an even better one. It's a poker player at the final table of the WSOP. It's gotten down to three-handed play. One of the players decides to go all-in on every hand. He gets a couple of good hands, but then eventually busts out.
1) Ultimately it's HuK's decision. 2) It was also very entertaining.
I'm not really denying either of those points.
I just know that for at least the next couple tournaments, I'm going to be looking for HuK to entertain, not necessarily to win. I'm going to be watching his games, anticipating that big, splashy move, instead of rooting for him to win the whole thing. If he does both, then great. If he doesn't, no big deal.
If he doesn't care, then neither do I -- and that's my main criticism.
Personally, I want to care. I mean, he seems like a nice guy.
I don't understand the comments about entertainment, of course he's playing to win. HuK seemed like he had the advantage until he screwed up the vortex. So, while yes it was a little gimmicky, HuK's problems didn't really start until he started making technical errors.
The root issue it seems which only a few seem to be focusing on is the crowd influencing the game. Whether or not HuK would've actually built a mothership or not I suspect the game would have been different without them chanting.
Listening to all the hate that Huk has been getting from this is disheartening. I dont' think the decision to go mom was game ending in itself. There were a number of points where Huks playing got him killed, none of which were the decision to rush the mom.
1) Not scouting the rocks. The rocks on his side were being attacked before he put down the fleet beacon. He would a) not been surprised by the bio ball attacking his expo and b) would have had more units to defend. He probably would have lost a lot of units, but he probably wouldn't have lost the expo. Even if he did keep going with the fleat beacon, He had the units to defeat the push, but not seeing it until it was sniping his main with his force way out of position is what lost the nexus, not simply rushing the mom.
2) The misplaced vortex. At that point, that ball of M&M that select has was all his units. If those were vortexed, Huk could have wrecked havok in the main and even if his ground force got taken out, the mom could fly back safely to his base with reinforcements waiting.
3) At the time he lost the mom, his units were very scattered. He had a 2 phoenix, 4 zealots, and 10 stalkers. Of those, only the zealots and 8 stalkers were anywhere nearby the mothership, and even then they were a ways behind it. If he waited until he had enough energy for another vortex, instead of sending his units into the bridge and putting the mom out of position, he would have been okay.
So all in all, I'm of the opinion that it was not having sight of the rocks, and later poor unit control that lost the game, not the decision to rush mom itself.
I'm so saddened by this thread now. I left it open to come back to all these people talking trash saying Huk didn't play to his best, etc etc. He played creatively, but made mistakes. The mothership rush wasn't even an all-in, cool 6pooled inca on kulas in gsl which was much less creative and much more risky and definitely not using all of his full playing potential to do that.
It's heartbreaking that Huk does an unorthodox build, which could've worked very well had he not made two critical mistakes, yet people are hating on him because of it. "If he doesn't care, then neither do I -- and that's my main criticism." Sure, getting to the finals of the winner's bracket in a major tournament after winning it the first time and picking up his whole life to go to Korea to play a damn video game for a living shows he doesn't care, not at all. I'd like to see Huk play when he does care then.
Regardless, I used to dislike his play, but he won me over as a fan even before the mothership through his good manner and nice/friendly rapport with the other players, then the mothership showed creativity and a love for playing the game that I have never seen from the likes of IdrA.
I'd like to say there's not only one way to do things so just because he's not playing super standard best builds out to date every game does not by any means make him any less of a competitor than those that do, it's a difference in styles. He took a risk, it didn't pay off, but it was entertaining and ballsy as hell. I commend him for doing it under such a pressured situation compared to doing it in some random custom - anyone can and would do it in a custom.
was so pleased I caught this on the stream, I couldn't stop smiling.
I really find it disappointing other top players (Idra, InSelect) are calling him an idiot for doing it. If he'd pulled it off, would they react the same way? Or look down their nose at him? "OH, WELL, HE STOPPED MAKING ZEALOTS AND STALKERS, SO IT WAS A LUKY WIN!" *smokes cigar*
Seriously.
The thing that annoys me about progaming is how utterly boring the people who are progamers seem to be. And, I get it, it's a tough road and peeps gottsa be dedicated and whatever, but does it really suck the personality out of you?
It is a spectator sport, and mad props to HuK for playing on that.
There are people like HuK in every sport - it doesn't make him a "bad player" or a "good player", it means he's actually enjoying himself, in the moment, trying something a bit different, taking a chance on something the crowd or his opponent doesn't expect.
I, personally, love watching people play who clearly love the game. HuK loves it.
If he had won or if he had given a close match, it would have been cool. The fact that he got absolutely stomped makes it very silly and dissapointing.
if you guys watched the whole game huk had no chance of winning even if he vortexed the enemy army correctly. the game was pretty much over when his natural got destroyed by select's first push. and the reason why his nat died wasnt because of bad unit control or mistakes - its because he tried saving up 400/400 for a mothership and simply didnt have enough units to defend, it was a guaranteed loss once select decided to move out for the first push. if huk did vortexed all of select's units correctly and moved into the base to kill buildings, his army still would have gotten completely rolled after the vortex ended.
I heard about this and checked out the game fully expecting him to win (i mean otherwise why would people be raving about it?) huge fucking facepalm moment when i realised he got steamrolled.
someone setup a show match between me and a top sc2 player so i too can build a mothership, lose horribly and be famous.
Being in the 2nd row in the crowd, I can telling you that no one was screaming mothership. After they showed HuK and then SeleCT for a good 30 seconds, the chants of "show the game!" started. HuK asked "what are they chanting?" and thought mothership.
On October 18 2010 14:31 PlusMinus wrote: Being in the 2nd row in the crowd, I can telling you that no one was screaming mothership. After they showed HuK and then SeleCT for a good 30 seconds, the chants of "show the game!" started. HuK asked "what are they chanting?" and thought mothership.
Yeah that's in the video and specifically detailed in the OP but thanks for the insight man.
The crowd is not the reason why he lost. Okay look at it this way your huk, your down 0-1 and your opponent is select who is playing some amazing tvp's taking down kiwikawki i probably spelled that wrong but no biggie. So your down a game and if you win select get's to pick the map, guess what he's going to pick 100% metropolis. So let's say they go to game 3 what the heck do you think huk is going to do vs selects unstopable tvp on metropolis. I think huk is a good player and all but just look at selects tvp's on this map it's very impressive. So why not go out with a bang if your huk put on a show your getting 3rd no matter what. Stop hating saying he threw the game. It shows that this is just a game and it can still be played for fun
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
Oh well, it was entertaining.
Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT.
Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating.
Except that now he is part of a team that has sponsors and has certain expectations.
If it is really ok to lose for him, then he will never be the "boxer" of sc2.
Having said that, he could of won that game with a decent vortex or if he got more before getting the mothership and waited until late-game.
As mentioned, it was unit control, and not the tech choice, that condemned HuK.
Jinro also lost to a Mothership Rush, I believe? Is it standard? Absolutely not. Is it a terrible strategy? Not unless Jinro is terrible. I, personally, think that Jinro's quite good. But that's just, you know, my opinion, man.
On October 18 2010 07:27 Defacer wrote: Am I the only one that thought the Mothership made Huk look unprofessional and just cheapened the competition?
No? Okay.
It's a little like a rookie NBA player doing a 360 degree dunk in a basketball game while his team is down 20 points.
I agree.
I'd say it's more like a NBA team, which has practiced for months on end, leading to a very important game. They know each others' moves, they have a game plan, and they know if they stick to it, they're going to win.
Now it's the 4th quarter and they're down by 10 points.
And instead of sticking to their game plan -- the game plan that they've been practicing for all this time -- they decide, "Ahh fuck it, let's just start shooting 3 pointers the rest of the game."
I probably would've been entertaining to watch as the crowd got more and more into it, especially if they started making them here or there, but ultimately they fell short.
Oh well, it was entertaining.
Except SC2 is a SOLO SPORT.
Huk didnt disapoint no other but himself. So if HE thinks it was ok, IT WILL BE OK, as no one was depending with him.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with team games in which you play for a group. Huk plays for himself, and as such, has nothing pendant with anyone. Stop hating.
My example works for both team and solo games.
The "team" part of it was the least important thing I wrote in that entire post.
Try again.
So it's like a champion bowler. He has practiced for months on end to bowl a perfect game. He knows every throw for every situation. He's got his custom ball and fitted shoes and is going in for the win.
It's the 10th frame and he's down by 9 points (technically I think something like 29 points would be more tense of a situation in bowling but that's not important).
In stead of sticking to his game plan of throwing a strike and winning, he makes a decision to make a more creative throw that (he thought) the crowd was cheering for. He gets the crowd pumped and builds excitement through the whole bowling alley. Well except for the last 4 lanes, those are reserved for a toddler's birthday party.
Huk misses the strike (and the next spare, stick with me here) and leaves the tournament. The crowd is still pumped, and many will remember that throw above any other match of the night. Of course the strike throwing robot in the corner says that it was a stupid idea to not just win, but strike throwing robots can't always see that being creative is important even if it results in a loss.
The whole situation feels a bit less impactful when it's taken in a solo context. The only person upset by this situation, the only person who suffered any loss, is Huk. He knew that when he decided to try the blindfolded shot, so it's not anyone's place to say they know better than him. He wanted to entertain, and mad props to him for it. He still got really far in the tournament, and decided to have fun with his last match and be an entertainer. He's still one of the top Protoss' in the world, one loss at MLG wont take that away from him.
(See, now this is the correct way to respond to it what I wrote.)
Speaking of more examples, I have an even better one. It's a poker player at the final table of the WSOP. It's gotten down to three-handed play. One of the players decides to go all-in on every hand. He gets a couple of good hands, but then eventually busts out.
1) Ultimately it's HuK's decision. 2) It was also very entertaining.
I'm not really denying either of those points.
I just know that for at least the next couple tournaments, I'm going to be looking for HuK to entertain, not necessarily to win. I'm going to be watching his games, anticipating that big, splashy move, instead of rooting for him to win the whole thing. If he does both, then great. If he doesn't, no big deal.
If he doesn't care, then neither do I -- and that's my main criticism.
Personally, I want to care. I mean, he seems like a nice guy.
I like to think of the movie Tin Cup. [edit: Hey, did I mention its a gold movie? No? Oh my. Hey, Tin Cup is a Movie about golf.] Good movie. Anyway, at the end of the movie our hero is down a stroke or two and is presented with a dilemma. He's got a long shot over a water hazard to win, or lay up, take an extra stroke and not win. He thinks and tries for the win. The crowd goes nuts in anticipation. He misses. Everybody is very sad. Now, with no chance of winning, he continues until, of course, on his last possible shot before elimination from the tournament he makes the hero shot, gets the girl, gets famous, cures cancer, etc. He laments his decision saying that it cost him this that and the other and feels he shouldn't have tried for it. The hero's love interest says, "Forget the tournament. In ten years they'll be talking about that shot and nobody will remember who even won."
In this case, he still looses, but that play will be remembered for years. HuK is clearly the winner here. It was a bold and creative move, this type of thing is good for e-sports. Instead of sticking with the known, go for something nobody expects. Try new things. Nobody wants to see the same old, tired play from the same old people forever. Most of the players we remember and love the most are the ones who did something new, unexpected and exciting. That is what people want to watch. That brings in new viewers, new strategies and dare I say it? MONEY. MLG and sponsors want to make money, just like any business.
i genuingly dont understand what all this "urrgh, he's cheapening esports by being gimmicky and throwing away games"
Remember what sport is, sport is a form of entertainment, designed to entertain! That is what Huk did, it is far more important to entertain than win. Something other sports need to remember aswell, i cant emphasies how dull football has become now that everyone plays so cautiosly with no one having the confidence to make an epic run, because if they loose the ball they're in the shit, i for one would rather see them at least tying :|
Huk is a boss, and wether he built the mother ship intending to win or knew he was throwing the game, its exactuly the kind of thing e sports needs if its going to attract crowds and surive.
I'm really surprised at some of the comments here. Has anyone gone and actually watched the replays? When Huk lost his expansion the first time he had an army equal to Select's; he didn't lose it because of the mom at all, it wasn't a direct factor.
He made two mistakes that where unrelated to the mothership, mistakes that would have cost him the game regardless of his strategy. one was not having sight on the rocks in the middle of the map and the other was not having his units in front of his natural, preferably behind that steam. Maybe the fact that he was going mothership indirectly caused him to make these mistakes but he had the units to put pressure on Selects front (which would have revealed Select's strat) and dropping a pylon by those rocks is trivial.
The worst part is because he wasn't in front of Select's base or at the watchtower his units really had nowhere else better to be then in front of his natural. His army composition was also very good, he only lost because of those two mistakes.
I sincerely hope that Huk wins an important game with this strat some day so people will see that he lost because of real mistakes, not because of a 400 min 400 gas unit. I really think this can eventually be hammered into a real strategy on some maps.
its so crazy to see all the haters bash at HuK... yes his mom rush failed but who cares he tried something ... might have worked im just curious if Huk Had Won this game what all the haters would have said to him ? that he cheeze or that hes a genius or thats he's been lucky?
On October 18 2010 15:42 Orph wrote: its so crazy to see all the haters bash at HuK... yes his mom rush failed but who cares he tried something ... might have worked im just curious if Huk Had Won this game what all the haters would have said to him ? that he cheeze or that hes a genius or thats he's been lucky?
They would have said that he had balls of steel and was lucky that Select was somehow bad enough to lose to a Mothership Rush.
HuK, if you read this, don't let some internet people get you down. You know what you wanted to do and how you wanted to do it. You made a decision and it didn't work out this time. Don't let that discourage you from trying again.
A whole lot of people have a whole lot of opinions, but a whole lot of us didn't compete in the MLG. Its like the office fantasy league or office baseball team telling Doc Halladay how to pitch a game for MLB.
I include myself in that category obviously. You do what YOU think is right. We're with you.
Remember what sport is, sport is a form of entertainment, designed to entertain! That is what Huk did, it is far more important to entertain than win. Something other sports need to remember aswell, i cant emphasies how dull football has become now that everyone plays so cautiosly with no one having the confidence to make an epic run, because if they loose the ball they're in the shit, i for one would rather see them at least tying :|
You know what would have been entertaining? Huk playing his heart out, taking Select in three games, and taking Idra in a long series. Or Select barely getting by Huk, after eking out all those other wins in the Loser's bracket.
I know Huk gave away that game with the mothership but I have to say that was probably the game I enjoyed the most at mlg (of course game 1 kiwikaki vs White ra was pretty awesome too)
On October 18 2010 16:22 Semiotist wrote: I know Huk gave away that game with the mothership but I have to say that was probably the game I enjoyed the most at mlg (of course game 1 kiwikaki vs White ra was pretty awesome too)
Im the opposite i guess. The way I rank the matches I like is normally by
1. win by inventive \ awesome play 2. solid win 3. scrappy win.
When it came out i was like "O, wow if this works then great" , then they zoom over on Selects army and you just knew he would get screwed with 1 scan. It was horrible to see him throw the game like that
I will not defend Huk's choice to go for the Mothership. It was clearly a stupid move that cost him a game in an important tournament and no self respecting, sponsored, serious gamer should ever make a decision that would lower his chances of winning for the sake of his fans, his sponsors and his own pride as a pro gamer.
However, I would like to say that there is a potential upside to this bad decision. The Starcraft community is an amazing, rich, vibrant, superbly entertaining community that once you become a part of, there is no going back. You are hooked by all the amazing things you will encounter and you will begin to grow in the community as you learn more about the depth of the game and the skill of the players, the events that are held online and offline, and the pure love and devotion that people are willing to give back to this game and its community.
Now the question is, How do you hook random people who could potentially become HUGE Starcraft fans but know absolutely nothing about it. Well Huk's Mothership is your answer. Now immediately, I know that a lot of people (especially pros) are gonna say that it's a bad move for people to become initially hooked on Starcraft based off of such a terrible game play decision. It's like if someone said "Ya man I just watched this Youtube video of this guy playing this game starcraft and it was so cool, he is so good at it and his mouse was moving so fast. It was crazy! His name was Combat EX!"
(Obviously everyone in the scene knows that Combat Ex is not a high level player, and I am not trying to pick on him in any way in this example. He was just the first thing that popped into my head at 3 am as I am writing this and I am trying to think of popular BW Starcraft Youtube channels.)
In a perfect world people will automatically understand high level play and seeing Idra beat people with amazing macro, timing and in game decision making would make everyone watch with a huge banana grin as it does me. Alas, people who don't know a single thing about the game will not understand anything about why Idra wins, how he got those units or why the other guy didn't have as many.
But that is my point, if Huk's Mothership can serve as that viral video "Hook" that will bring in more random people to the Starcraft community then that is a great thing. If it can spread across Reddit, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, 4chan, or whatever via a meme, a video, or a random comment. Then it has served a great purpose for the growth of esports and the Starcraft community. And once people are hooked and then have watched vods and replays and followed tournaments and know the game on a higher level from day9's dailies, then they will clearly be able to look back and say "Wow, Huk's Mothership was a really dumb idea. He was stupid for doing that." But at that point, who cares? It was that one thing that introduced you to one of the most amazing games and amazing community of people you have ever encountered.
And maybe one day we could get lucky and get that Google CEO that was browsing reddit and decided to click that one link that peaked his interest. Then he read a comment that linked him to a TL thread, then he followed that TL thread to a GSL game then next thing you know hes a hardcore fan and wants to fund the first US Google sponsored Starleague. You never know...
What I don't get is huk was not that behind with his mom. And then it seems he really throw the game away after succesfully defeated the first push. Yes he lost his expand but it was up and running again iirc. Why not playing your best ? When he defeated the first push it was super exciting, like "hoho he could win this with a mom ???" Then he suicide the ms without his army
On October 17 2010 17:21 kidd wrote: I honestly disliked Huk as a player before though I never knew anything about his personality so it was all based on his play, but after seeing his kind demeanor throughout the tournament with little things like trying to help select get set up and shaking hands after every game, he won me over. Quickly following those things, he does a mothership rush in the loser's final of one of the biggest US tournaments to please the crowd all the while joking and basically telling select what's going on, shows he loves nothing more than playing the game and having fun with it. Can't help but like the guy after all that.
I agree with everything you said up to the point where he won you over. If anything his demeanor makes things worse. Talking like that in-game especially with those kinds of tones just seems so BM.
The pricepool of this tournament winner takes 2500 dollars -> LOL. Overall Huk wins a lot of additional fans for a loss off maybe 1000 dollars. For sponsorship this was way better, every one is talking about this match and way less about the finals. So overall a good step for e-sports on that level because with a winner that takes home 2500 dollar we can't really say this is big for any professional sport. If this was the GSL than it was a complete different story and he will also never did this.
Also why is every one blaming huk. Blame the MLG in a professional environment it should never be the case that the crowd could have an impact like this on the decision making of a gamer. If there were soundproof booth (like they should have) this would never happen.
On October 18 2010 17:00 laonda wrote: The pricepool of this tournament winner takes 2500 dollars -> LOL. Overall Huk wins a lot of additional fans for a loss off maybe 1000 dollars. For sponsorship this was way better, every one is talking about this match and way less about the finals. So overall a good step for e-sports on that level because with a winner that takes home 2500 dollar we can't really say this is big for any professional sport. If this was the GSL than it was a complete different story and he will also never did this.
Also why is every one blaming huk. Blame the MLG in a professional environment it should never be the case that the crowd could have an impact like this on the decision making of a gamer. If there were soundproof booth (like they should have) this would never happen.
No you shouldn't blame MLG for huk's actions. He is accountable for his own behavior and decisions.
And no true competitor gives up when he still has a chance to win through and take home 1st place. No matter how unlikely or challenging it would be.
Losers always whine about no sound booths, winners go home and choose to spawn queens?
Huk's mothership rush was actually kinda good. He would have won if select wasn't able to get the timing push in and kill his nexus as he was saving up and low on units. Also even after the mothership poped his first vortex could have won him the game if placed right i think. There were many times that Huk could have won that match. Though Select being prepared for the mothership didn't help
On October 18 2010 16:06 Patton1942 wrote: HuK, if you read this, don't let some internet people get you down. You know what you wanted to do and how you wanted to do it. You made a decision and it didn't work out this time. Don't let that discourage you from trying again.
A whole lot of people have a whole lot of opinions, but a whole lot of us didn't compete in the MLG. Its like the office fantasy league or office baseball team telling Doc Halladay how to pitch a game for MLB.
I include myself in that category obviously. You do what YOU think is right. We're with you.
HuK Fighting!
Huk, if you read THIS, just remember that any silver league player can mothership rush. Not every player has the potential to beat Idra, or Select, or qualify for the GSL. You also have a short window of time to carve out a successful career and make some serious money. Kick some ass while you still can, man.
Yes, he used a cute tactic. In no way was that throwing the game and he managed to have fun doing it. Professional gaming, after all, is not a career choice for more than a handful of Korean BW players, and even then not for longer than some years. So why play a game? To have fun.
In a years time, noone will remember if he got second or third place, but people will remember the mothership.
An analogy to anyone who knows the Quake scene: I prefer watching av3k to watching rapha, even if the latter has more consistent and better results. I just can't stand watching people grind out the same safe move for the nteenth time.
lol @ holier-than-the-pope nerds demanding their precious computer game be more serious than actual professional sports. Do you not see basketball players do flashy dunks? Do you not see soccer players go for solo runs? Jesus.
People are getting too bent out of shape just because there have been so few tournaments so far. Props to Huk for trying to please the crowd and it will probably make him a better player in the future. I think anybody with enough brass to go fast Mothership will go far.
Yeah. If he had done this on GSL and got eliminated, people wouldn't have been pissed. But since this is only the biggest american tournament so far, it's OK for people to do stupidly risky strats/ throw games when facing elimination in the semi-finals.
I'm sorry, but -everyone- cheering for HuK would prefer to see him go to ro32 in GSL rather than doing a stupid mothership (unless he can make this works in 95% of his games) and get eliminated. And yes, these progamers want to, actually, do this for a living and for this, they need sponsors. Their sponsors want them to try 100% (No sponsor want their team to throw games or play for the giggles...). HuK is getting enough results that he wont catch too much shit for it, but I doubt he will do it again while facing elimination.
He said he wouldn't do it in the GSL, so why do it in the biggest American tournament? Is the American starcraft II scene just a joke? I doubt he will do it again from the vibe I got from post-game shows.
I obviously enjoyed the mothership move and hearing the roar from the live audience was really cool, but i consider the sound-proff booths to be necessary in the future if SC2 is ment to continue growing outside of Korea.
I think it will get to a point where some serious money will be involved and things will have to be taken more seriously by HuK or any other pro-gamer wanting to deserve that status.
Anyway, great even by HuK played very well and the mothership made him a crowd / viewers favorite so maybe it will compensate him in the long run.
The mothership rush is an actual build Huk practices. Hes done it in the past in tourneys and even won with it before. He didn't think select will attack when he did. If select held off his attack for a few more mins then I think Huk could have easily taken that game. He still almost did but the first failed vortex was gg for Huk.
Edit: Huk also put up a very good fight with that build. I'd say that game was closer than any of the games in the Finals. Because of that would you say select's builds are stupid?
my friends and I were in the crowd, and we went NUTS when huk threw down the fleet beacon (we talked to him earlier, and I think one of us had thrown the word "mothership" out). the Halo tourney was actually going on right next to us, and it was hard to hear the sc2 announcers over the sounds coming from the halo side (which was on three big screens in the middle of the auditorium). + Show Spoiler +
I was really frustrated with the vortex though, I assume it was a mis-click but it pretty much ruined the offensive...then getting the mothership sniped when it was stuck out by itself was pretty saddening . we were thinking "omg, a recall over select's main would be so epic".
Let me say first that I completely understand the people who are like "omg he threw the game, not serious, not professional, etc etc". I see where their arguments are coming from and I'm not going to argue against that (not that it would change anybody's mind anyway).
IMO though, some professions just aren't supposed to be "professional" to that extent - forcing those "values" upon people who do those jobs is often times counterproductive and harmful. When you take away a player's irrational passion for the game, personality, flair, frivolity, and yes even the ability to just say "fuck this, I'm not feeling this game tonight so I'm doing something goofy just for the heck of it" (just a hypothetical example), you're really not left with much. Least of all an interested audience that is large enough to be even rightly called an audience. On the other hand, the sort of atmosphere during the scrap station game is the sort of thing that will grab people's attention. This is pretty much what DJ Wheat (I believe) tried to point out in the last SoTG.
Secondly, if I were sponsoring a player competing in MLG, what I would want is that the player I sponsor gets noticed and draws attention to himself (in a non-negative context, although that line is kind of vague these days as well), thus promoting my company / product. And If I were choosing between sponsoring a player who gets the crowd chanting his name for whatever reason and a player who goes on to win that tournament easily, I know where my money would go. At the very least, a random person at MLG would probably want to know "who this Huk character is" and there would be a ton of discussion about him and a youtube video posted. I thought the same when he showed up in front of cameras in a hoodie holding a pillow in Raleigh.
Finally, about the actual match with SeleCT - after the first game I would've put all my money, house and car on SeleCT winning in any sort of standard game. I don't think SeleCT is a more talented player or even a better player in general, but I was sure he's taking that game that night. If I tried to rationalize that feeling, I'd say HuK was the last in the long line of top Protoss that ended up losing to pretty much the same thing. Things just clicked for SeleCT, he dispatched his opponents routinely one after the other, and I don't think HuK is in a top shape right now.
Maybe that's why I don't feel like HuK really threw away anything - it's more like he got the best out of the time he had left on the tournament. I can only guess what was going through his head at the time, but I find it really hard to believe he went in that game 100%. Obviously it's not something he would ever want to say in public because it would be... not very pleasant, I imagine. Either way, I don't blame him, he's only human. I also don't think it's some horrible, unforgivable attitude and that he doesn't have what it takes to succeed.
On October 18 2010 16:38 vol wrote: "Wow, Huk's Mothership was a really dumb idea. He was stupid for doing that."
Your rant was cool and all (even though I find part of it to be terribly wrong) but that part really got me to write back.
I dont mind giving you the fact that a mothership rush wasnt the best idea with winning in mind, if it was dumb or not I guess that is up to discussion.
Saying that ''HE WAS STUPID'' for doing it though it probably the most retarded thing I have read in this entire thread (and trust me, this thread is filled with dumb posts).
You are not a pro-gamer, you are not ''HuK'', and you have never been in the situation that he was in. With that in mind, saying it was stupid (even if we could prove he DID throw the game intentionally to please the fans, which can also be discussed) is totally irrational.
Starcraft 2 is a competitive game, sure, but it still is a GAME, and a game is supposed to have a ''fun part to it''. Sure, some people think that winning is the only thing that could ever make them have fun, but its not the same for everyone.
On October 19 2010 07:32 Talin wrote: Let me say first that I completely understand the people who are like "omg he threw the game, not serious, not professional, etc etc". I see where their arguments are coming from and I'm not going to argue against that (not that it would change anybody's mind anyway).
IMO though, some professions just aren't supposed to be "professional" to that extent - forcing those "values" upon people who do those jobs is often times counterproductive and harmful. When you take away a player's irrational passion for the game, personality, flair, frivolity, and yes even the ability to just say "fuck this, I'm not feeling this game tonight so I'm doing something goofy just for the heck of it" (just a hypothetical example), you're really not left with much. Least of all an interested audience that is large enough to be even rightly called an audience. On the other hand, the sort of atmosphere during the scrap station game is the sort of thing that will grab people's attention. This is pretty much what DJ Wheat (I believe) tried to point out in the last SoTG.
.
Dear Talin,
I'm sure your a nice guy, but with all due respect you're argument here is for sissies, babies, and hairy lesbians.
Are you suggesting that it is somehow unfair of his audience to expect Huk to TRY to WIN in a COMPETITION he ENTERED, and that we are somehow "oppressing" him, and denying him of his freedom to express himself through the sweet sweet language of Starcraft 2?
I thought MLG was a tournament that hosted the best competitors in the world, not a goddamn free-form, open-mike jam session at some filthy-hippie-internet bar where a guy 'expresses himself' with a fucking Mothership.
On October 19 2010 07:32 Talin wrote: Let me say first that I completely understand the people who are like "omg he threw the game, not serious, not professional, etc etc". I see where their arguments are coming from and I'm not going to argue against that (not that it would change anybody's mind anyway).
IMO though, some professions just aren't supposed to be "professional" to that extent - forcing those "values" upon people who do those jobs is often times counterproductive and harmful. When you take away a player's irrational passion for the game, personality, flair, frivolity, and yes even the ability to just say "fuck this, I'm not feeling this game tonight so I'm doing something goofy just for the heck of it" (just a hypothetical example), you're really not left with much. Least of all an interested audience that is large enough to be even rightly called an audience. On the other hand, the sort of atmosphere during the scrap station game is the sort of thing that will grab people's attention. This is pretty much what DJ Wheat (I believe) tried to point out in the last SoTG.
.
Dear Talin,
I'm sure your a nice guy, but with all due respect you're argument here is for sissies, babies, and hairy lesbians.
Are you suggesting that it is somehow unfair of his audience to expect Huk to TRY to WIN in a COMPETITION he ENTERED, and that we are somehow "oppressing" him, and denying him of his freedom to express himself through the sweet sweet language of Starcraft 2?
I thought MLG was a tournament that hosted the best competitors in the world, not a goddamn free-form, open-mike jam session at some filthy-hippie-internet bar where a guy 'expresses himself' with a fucking Mothership.
You sir, are ridiculous.
Dear Defacer,
please explain to me exactly which right do YOU have to tell huk what HE should do?
On October 19 2010 07:32 Talin wrote: Let me say first that I completely understand the people who are like "omg he threw the game, not serious, not professional, etc etc". I see where their arguments are coming from and I'm not going to argue against that (not that it would change anybody's mind anyway).
IMO though, some professions just aren't supposed to be "professional" to that extent - forcing those "values" upon people who do those jobs is often times counterproductive and harmful. When you take away a player's irrational passion for the game, personality, flair, frivolity, and yes even the ability to just say "fuck this, I'm not feeling this game tonight so I'm doing something goofy just for the heck of it" (just a hypothetical example), you're really not left with much. Least of all an interested audience that is large enough to be even rightly called an audience. On the other hand, the sort of atmosphere during the scrap station game is the sort of thing that will grab people's attention. This is pretty much what DJ Wheat (I believe) tried to point out in the last SoTG.
.
Dear Talin,
I'm sure your a nice guy, but with all due respect you're argument here is for sissies, babies, and hairy lesbians.
Are you suggesting that it is somehow unfair of his audience to expect Huk to TRY to WIN in a COMPETITION he ENTERED, and that we are somehow "oppressing" him, and denying him of his freedom to express himself through the sweet sweet language of Starcraft 2?
I thought MLG was a tournament that hosted the best competitors in the world, not a goddamn free-form, open-mike jam session at some filthy-hippie-internet bar where a guy 'expresses himself' with a fucking Mothership.
You sir, are ridiculous.
Dear Defacer,
please explain to me exactly which right do YOU have to tell huk what HE should do?
i guess haters gonna hate
Dear TehForce,
HuK can do whatever he wants.
But my level of caring if he wins or not is in direct proportion to how much he cares. If he doesn't care if wins, then neither do I.
Who cares, he made a mothership for his fans, for OUR entertainment at the cost of HIS winnings. When you are as good as huk then you can criticise his choices.
Whats to currently distinguish him from any other good protoss player? Skill and Style, they go hand in hand. Bad to compare but if you think of any great athlete, there is a degree of showmanship involved.
I think it was awesome, and the right move. As the teamLiquid report said, people who don't care have been asking, 'what this mothership thing?' - which is good for HuK in the long run.
The crowd needs to know when to shut up. It's like the retarded drunks at a football game cheering at the top of their lungs when their team is in the middle of a 2 minute drill. Shut the fuck up.
One day when I'm wasted enough I'll write a long-ass weird blog about Huk that no one is going to believe and that will probably get me banned. Little hint - try and find something about idra, nex-retribution and proxy rax.
Haha, that's the best part about Huk. He's so good at pleasing the crowd. Being in DC for this was incredible too. The crowd got more excited for this match than for the finals.
On October 19 2010 12:22 inFeZa wrote: Who cares, he made a mothership for his fans, for OUR entertainment at the cost of HIS winnings. When you are as good as huk then you can criticise his choices.
Officially, that is NOT the case. HuK did say that he did not do it for fandom. He was, in fact, trying to win.
On October 19 2010 12:22 inFeZa wrote: Who cares, he made a mothership for his fans, for OUR entertainment at the cost of HIS winnings. When you are as good as huk then you can criticise his choices.
Officially, that is NOT the case. HuK did say that he did not do it for fandom. He was, in fact, trying to win.
On October 19 2010 12:22 inFeZa wrote: Who cares, he made a mothership for his fans, for OUR entertainment at the cost of HIS winnings. When you are as good as huk then you can criticise his choices.
Officially, that is NOT the case. HuK did say that he did not do it for fandom. He was, in fact, trying to win.
Nobody in their right mind is going to say anything like "I couldn't bother anymore, I was tired, I didn't feel I could beat my opponent and it was the most epic way to go out" after dropping out from a tournament of that level one round before the grand finals.
Every time he was answering "The Mothership questions" he was visibly (or audibly, in State of the Game case) uncomfortable. Which on one hand should be enough of a hint in itself, and on the other hand, people need to give him a break about the whole Mothership subject.
For the record, I still think it was one of the most awesome SC2 moments since release.
EPT
Great video. Really captures the excitement in the audience. Thanks for posting.
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