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On October 15 2010 16:41 Viruuus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 16:25 Mintastic wrote:On October 15 2010 16:17 Scarecrow wrote:
For how dominant terran is in both mu's this patch is a joke. What are you basing this on? Statistics shown by blizzard don't show this. Tournament results don't show this. Blizzard themselves have said opposite that PvT favors P. So are you going perhaps by personal experience? Or are you being swayed by the peer pressure of the forum Terran QQ that has been ongoing and wanted to join in on the bandwagon? I don't approve of how you state stuff which is wrong, but you pretend to be right. Check out the thread on this very board with the title: Tournament winners since 1.1 And then come back here and talk about no statistics or tournament results that show how good T was prepatch, thanks. However, i think the changes might not be enough, but they are not as unsignificant as some ppl might think, it may eventually show in some time soon 
I can't find this thread, link me plz.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On October 15 2010 17:17 NeozooM wrote:I think this patch is pretty nice. In 2v2 3v3 4v4 voids were horrible once charged. The trouble is they charged too fast. I expected something about charge slower or charge down after each target to avoid (haha) a mass hydra killing with same number of voids. But this patch about voids is OK. zerg buff are slight but significant. Only thing is about terran.... don't really understand. They still have medivacs costing 100 100 with no research needed, builded two by two on starport with reac, that heals fast dropship etc.... planetary fortress repair ?? (why not allow terran to repair a PF ? would be interesting, making the choice important) turrets and drones living 4minutes still.... but the two nerfs about terran actually are terrible. anyway phoenix are back, and THAT is REALLY COOL PS: sorry for bad english, i'm not fluent, french people....
PF are expensive and they cost you an orbital command. If you do choose to repair it, you're spending quite a fair bit of resources and all you need to do is attack the SCVs.
Yesterday, I tried to heal a PF twice against a collosus player and then against a storm player. They both targeted my SCV's and I lost the expo so fast. It's not impossible to kill a PF, it's just hard if you don't target the workers.
If you couldn't repair a PF, they'd be pointless because they'd get like one or two shots off before they die.
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I agree with everything except supply before rax. Don't see the need for that at all. The building hp boost was needed for marauders but now nukes might feel abit weak against some buildings I guess.
All in all, great patch though. Time will tell which parts of it that needs re-tweaking.
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How well does supply before rax defend against 6-pool?
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On October 15 2010 17:14 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 16:05 Perscienter wrote:On October 15 2010 15:53 _Darwin_ wrote:On October 15 2010 15:47 Perscienter wrote:On October 15 2010 15:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Half the Protoss army hardcounters thors, why are you complaining --?
Thors are TERRIBLE vs immoratls, TERRIBLE vs Carriers, AWFUL vs colossi (seriously, you wont even hit them unless the toss falls asleep), and used to be owned by Void Rays. The patch might have changed the last one tho, they might actually do a little bit better vs void rays now. Thor's strike cannons ignore the hardened shield. With the upgrade, they obliterate the immortals. Thors own interceptors. Thors have a higher range than colossi. Void rays were supposed to be the hard counter vs. them but aren't anymore. Just repair the thors. The thor had a role as a support against mutalisks, for some drops and so on, but the old thor didn't fit in Blizzard's every unit must always be viable and not particularly strong scheme. lol so you expect to see many thors TvP at GSL2? thors are terrible vs carriers- although im not sure if such an encounter would ever be seen past gold league. thors have 7 range, collosus have 8 with range. void rays were supposed to be hard counter vs void ray? did u chat with browder about this? thors are still terrible against void ray. listen to jinro or make coherent arguments plz Thors have 7/10 range, colossi have 6 + 3. Void rays were supposed to hard counter vs void rays? What are you writing? And please check your spelling first. 1) Thors use their anti-ground attack vs colossi - there is no way to make them use their anti-air attack.
Actually i am 100% certain that I managed to use their anti-air attack against colossi when my thors were shooting up a cliff and were out of range for their ground attack, and I assume using hold position would do the same thing.
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PF are expensive and they cost you an orbital command. If you do choose to repair it, you're spending quite a fair bit of resources and all you need to do is attack the SCVs.
Yesterday, I tried to heal a PF twice against a collosus player and then against a storm player. They both targeted my SCV's and I lost the expo so fast. It's not impossible to kill a PF, it's just hard if you don't target the workers.
If you couldn't repair a PF, they'd be pointless because they'd get like one or two shots off before they die.
are you serious.......?
ok, i won't answer. two shot a PF ? as a zerg? yes of course.
"easy kill 15workers before killing the monster of 3000hp 3armor kicking butt at 50 range 7 and speed 1 attack...."
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On October 15 2010 16:52 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 16:46 sleepingdog wrote:
lol why would they nerf feedback is beyond me - it's hard to get and hard to use as it is (with hard to use I refer to templars always being low on energy)
now I can't feedback corruptors and I can't feedback thors; wtf? why? now they only need to make medivac-heal cooldown based and the only real use for feedback would be vs ghosts - yeah right, awsome when EMP is >>>> feedback in every conceivable aspect
Because Thors and Corruptors aren't casters! Most of time they never use their abilites which makes them walking ducks for HTs. You can also add energy to Ultras and give them useless ability so they can be feedbacked and be worthless... Will that be ok?
the first argument is ridiculous - it doesn't matter what they are if it makes sense gameplay-wise; medivacs are flying mechanical ships and not casters either; so I suppose you are in favour of removing energy from medivacs too? because obviously the healing-beam is some sort of highly advanced technology and nothing "magical" at all; same goes for the battle-cruiser, the banshee....
and as I said, if feedback isn't supposed to counter anything, then why is it in the game? besides feedbacking ghost the only real use is vs medivacs now; no it would not make sense to make ultras feedback-able....simply because it would be stupid gameplay-wise; feedbacking corruptors does make sense gameplay-wise because corruptors will only be in the game when I have colossi and/or phoenixes; now to get colossi AND templars is a pretty huge investment that I feel I should have the "right" to capitalize on; also it would be purely reactionary because zerg won't go corruptors unless I give him a reason to - without colossi/phoenixes zerg won't build a single corruptor anyways
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On October 15 2010 17:25 NeozooM wrote:Show nested quote +
PF are expensive and they cost you an orbital command. If you do choose to repair it, you're spending quite a fair bit of resources and all you need to do is attack the SCVs.
Yesterday, I tried to heal a PF twice against a collosus player and then against a storm player. They both targeted my SCV's and I lost the expo so fast. It's not impossible to kill a PF, it's just hard if you don't target the workers.
If you couldn't repair a PF, they'd be pointless because they'd get like one or two shots off before they die.
are you serious.......? ok, i won't answer. two shot a PF ? as a zerg? yes of course. "easy kill 15workers before killing the monster of 3000hp 3armor kicking butt at 50 range 7 and speed 1 attack...."
I mean, the Planetary Fortress only shot twice before it died against a Protoss yesterday when I couldn't repair it. Seriously, I don't know how it works against zerg because I never really build it against zerg, but Protoss can definately kill it fast.
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Its not a patch, its a complete redesign. And i cannot believe how many ppl like this. Supply for rax? I just cannot believe. Removing mana and making cooldown abilities? Is this starcraft or what? Just my opinion.
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I mean, the Planetary Fortress only shot twice before it died against a Protoss yesterday when I couldn't repair it. Seriously, I don't know how it works against zerg because I never really build it against zerg, but Protoss can definately kill it fast.
look sen vs TLO...... you'll see if it works against zerg.
vikings +PF = win
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looks like the THOR 250mm strike cannons might get used now.. only against things like colosi but..
i await the Protoss players calling for a nerf........ bio ball + thor = rape vs robo + gate builds.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On October 15 2010 17:30 uzas wrote:
Its not a patch, its a complete redesign. And i cannot believe how many ppl like this. Supply for rax? I just cannot believe. Removing mana and making cooldown abilities? Is this starcraft or what? Just my opinion.
The reasoning behind it, is Corrupters and Thors got ridiculously killed so fast in TvP and ZvP because especially ZvP, people had a ton of Stalkers already, then having an ability which almost one shot a corrupter wasn't exactly fair.
Thors were never built in TvP for the exact same reason, you just could never use them against Templar, feedback owned them as you could never use the energy.
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I agree terran supply and nitro research nerf is either stupid or bad for BOTH terrans and opponents.... but, rest of the patch is great actually.
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On October 15 2010 17:30 NeozooM wrote:Show nested quote +
I mean, the Planetary Fortress only shot twice before it died against a Protoss yesterday when I couldn't repair it. Seriously, I don't know how it works against zerg because I never really build it against zerg, but Protoss can definately kill it fast.
look sen vs TLO...... you'll see if it works against zerg. vikings +PF = win
you would need something extra than just that 
belive i saaw a game in the gsl where a zerg leveled a PF in about 2.5 sec after the first attack landed on the PF
a small strike force of ling/bling could be a way to snipe undefended PF's
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On October 15 2010 17:25 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 16:52 Alpina wrote:On October 15 2010 16:46 sleepingdog wrote:
lol why would they nerf feedback is beyond me - it's hard to get and hard to use as it is (with hard to use I refer to templars always being low on energy)
now I can't feedback corruptors and I can't feedback thors; wtf? why? now they only need to make medivac-heal cooldown based and the only real use for feedback would be vs ghosts - yeah right, awsome when EMP is >>>> feedback in every conceivable aspect
Because Thors and Corruptors aren't casters! Most of time they never use their abilites which makes them walking ducks for HTs. You can also add energy to Ultras and give them useless ability so they can be feedbacked and be worthless... Will that be ok? the first argument is ridiculous - it doesn't matter what they are if it makes sense gameplay-wise; medivacs are flying mechanical ships and not casters either; so I suppose you are in favour of removing energy from medivacs too? because obviously the healing-beam is some sort of highly advanced technology and nothing "magical" at all; same goes for the battle-cruiser, the banshee.... and as I said, if feedback isn't supposed to counter anything, then why is it in the game? besides feedbacking ghost the only real use is vs medivacs now; no it would not make sense to make ultras feedback-able....simply because it would be stupid gameplay-wise; feedbacking corruptors does make sense gameplay-wise because corruptors will only be in the game when I have colossi and/or phoenixes; now to get colossi AND templars is a pretty huge investment that I feel I should have the "right" to capitalize on; also it would be purely reactionary because zerg won't go corruptors unless I give him a reason to - without colossi/phoenixes zerg won't build a single corruptor anyways
Feedback is really good vs. ghosts, infestors, medivacs - that's its real use.
Medivacs are different story cause they use their energy a lot - it's not like they have always full energy which is useless..
While energy on corruptors is not that bad as on Thors it still feels awkward, cause they rarely use their spell so always flies with maximum energy.
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I'm not a really good player or anything, so maybe I'm missing something here, but what's the big deal about depot before rax? Don't most standard terran builds usually go depot first anyways? Isn't the only thing this prevents is super fast proxy barracks reapers? Which is what everyone is always complaining about anyways? Is there another popular build that involves getting a barracks first?
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Why the hell is Blizzard basing this patch on lower leagues and team games? You start to wonder who's making these patches and what their grasp of the game is in terms of actual gameplay.
I can see all those complaints on bnet forum are made by scrubs.
Voidrays
Really? you can't stop voidrays 1on1? If you're as good as you keep telling yourself you are, then it shouldn't be a problem. Unless you slack off on your scouting ala idra at GSL.
Reapers
At what point of the game do we usually see upgrade Reapers? Early, yes. Again, I can see a scrub getting reaper rushed by a good player doing placement matches.
Depo before Rax
Terran, Protos, and Zerg are 3 DIFFERENT races and deserves deviating mechanivs.
Uh seriously, there's nothing wrong with this. I'm a protoss and we do this all the time uh duh
Well why don't they change it so that evo before pool then huh? Well, young scrub, they won't because that would be ludicrous.
+ Show Spoiler +albeit the way it's going now, we'll just have to keep on complaining then it's bounf to happen.
I won't touch on the unintended "double nerfs" that came with this.
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Void ray nerf, retarded.
Supply depot requirement, super retarded.
The removal of energy I think was a good idea for the corrupter, but for the thor I'm wondering how it will affect PvT. Only time will tell.
The buff to building health I think was a good idea as well.
Lets see how it plays out.
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On October 15 2010 17:20 Mintastic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 16:41 Viruuus wrote:On October 15 2010 16:25 Mintastic wrote:On October 15 2010 16:17 Scarecrow wrote:
For how dominant terran is in both mu's this patch is a joke. What are you basing this on? Statistics shown by blizzard don't show this. Tournament results don't show this. Blizzard themselves have said opposite that PvT favors P. So are you going perhaps by personal experience? Or are you being swayed by the peer pressure of the forum Terran QQ that has been ongoing and wanted to join in on the bandwagon? I don't approve of how you state stuff which is wrong, but you pretend to be right. Check out the thread on this very board with the title: Tournament winners since 1.1 And then come back here and talk about no statistics or tournament results that show how good T was prepatch, thanks. However, i think the changes might not be enough, but they are not as unsignificant as some ppl might think, it may eventually show in some time soon I can't find this thread, link me plz.
using search function with the EXACT words i typed up there:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160713
youre welcome
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No energy on corrupter? What units do the Protoss have to counter them now? Seeing as they hard counter both colossi and carrier, there must be *some* option?
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EPT
