• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:22
CEST 20:22
KST 03:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 814 users

Patch 1.1.2 Notes - Page 76

Forum Index > SC2 General
1843 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 74 75 76 77 78 93 Next
Mintastic
Profile Joined October 2010
United States166 Posts
October 15 2010 08:20 GMT
#1501
On October 15 2010 16:41 Viruuus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 16:25 Mintastic wrote:
On October 15 2010 16:17 Scarecrow wrote:
For how dominant terran is in both mu's this patch is a joke.

What are you basing this on? Statistics shown by blizzard don't show this. Tournament results don't show this. Blizzard themselves have said opposite that PvT favors P.

So are you going perhaps by personal experience? Or are you being swayed by the peer pressure of the forum Terran QQ that has been ongoing and wanted to join in on the bandwagon?


I don't approve of how you state stuff which is wrong, but you pretend to be right.
Check out the thread on this very board with the title: Tournament winners since 1.1
And then come back here and talk about no statistics or tournament results that show how good T was prepatch, thanks.

However, i think the changes might not be enough, but they are not as unsignificant as some ppl might think, it may eventually show in some time soon

I can't find this thread, link me plz.
테징징
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
October 15 2010 08:21 GMT
#1502
On October 15 2010 17:17 NeozooM wrote:
I think this patch is pretty nice.

In 2v2 3v3 4v4 voids were horrible once charged. The trouble is they charged too fast.
I expected something about charge slower or charge down after each target to avoid (haha) a mass hydra killing with same number of voids. But this patch about voids is OK.

zerg buff are slight but significant.


Only thing is about terran.... don't really understand.
They still have medivacs costing 100 100 with no research needed, builded two by two on starport with reac, that heals fast dropship etc.... planetary fortress repair ?? (why not allow terran to repair a PF ? would be interesting, making the choice important)
turrets and drones living 4minutes still....

but the two nerfs about terran actually are terrible.

anyway phoenix are back, and THAT is REALLY COOL


PS: sorry for bad english, i'm not fluent, french people....


PF are expensive and they cost you an orbital command. If you do choose to repair it, you're spending quite a fair bit of resources and all you need to do is attack the SCVs.

Yesterday, I tried to heal a PF twice against a collosus player and then against a storm player. They both targeted my SCV's and I lost the expo so fast. It's not impossible to kill a PF, it's just hard if you don't target the workers.

If you couldn't repair a PF, they'd be pointless because they'd get like one or two shots off before they die.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Ajsbear
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden63 Posts
October 15 2010 08:22 GMT
#1503
I agree with everything except supply before rax. Don't see the need for that at all. The building hp boost was needed for marauders but now nukes might feel abit weak against some buildings I guess.

All in all, great patch though. Time will tell which parts of it that needs re-tweaking.
The delicate touch of the viking flower doth take out the colossi - Artosis
Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
October 15 2010 08:23 GMT
#1504
How well does supply before rax defend against 6-pool?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
schiznak
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia258 Posts
October 15 2010 08:23 GMT
#1505
On October 15 2010 17:14 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 16:05 Perscienter wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:53 _Darwin_ wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:47 Perscienter wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Half the Protoss army hardcounters thors, why are you complaining --?

Thors are TERRIBLE vs immoratls, TERRIBLE vs Carriers, AWFUL vs colossi (seriously, you wont even hit them unless the toss falls asleep), and used to be owned by Void Rays. The patch might have changed the last one tho, they might actually do a little bit better vs void rays now.

Thor's strike cannons ignore the hardened shield. With the upgrade, they obliterate the immortals.
Thors own interceptors.
Thors have a higher range than colossi.
Void rays were supposed to be the hard counter vs. them but aren't anymore. Just repair the thors.

The thor had a role as a support against mutalisks, for some drops and so on, but the old thor didn't fit in Blizzard's every unit must always be viable and not particularly strong scheme.


lol so you expect to see many thors TvP at GSL2?

thors are terrible vs carriers- although im not sure if such an encounter would ever be seen past gold league.

thors have 7 range, collosus have 8 with range.

void rays were supposed to be hard counter vs void ray? did u chat with browder about this? thors are still terrible against void ray.

listen to jinro or make coherent arguments plz

Thors have 7/10 range, colossi have 6 + 3. Void rays were supposed to hard counter vs void rays? What are you writing? And please check your spelling first.

1) Thors use their anti-ground attack vs colossi - there is no way to make them use their anti-air attack.


Actually i am 100% certain that I managed to use their anti-air attack against colossi when my thors were shooting up a cliff and were out of range for their ground attack, and I assume using hold position would do the same thing.
"That's very e-sports of you to have the camera focused on the people instead of the game" -ultradavid
NeozooM
Profile Joined July 2010
France55 Posts
October 15 2010 08:25 GMT
#1506


PF are expensive and they cost you an orbital command. If you do choose to repair it, you're spending quite a fair bit of resources and all you need to do is attack the SCVs.

Yesterday, I tried to heal a PF twice against a collosus player and then against a storm player. They both targeted my SCV's and I lost the expo so fast. It's not impossible to kill a PF, it's just hard if you don't target the workers.

If you couldn't repair a PF, they'd be pointless because they'd get like one or two shots off before they die.



are you serious.......?

ok, i won't answer. two shot a PF ? as a zerg? yes of course.
"easy kill 15workers before killing the monster of 3000hp 3armor kicking butt at 50 range 7 and speed 1 attack...."



What the heck
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
October 15 2010 08:25 GMT
#1507
On October 15 2010 16:52 Alpina wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 16:46 sleepingdog wrote:
lol why would they nerf feedback is beyond me - it's hard to get and hard to use as it is (with hard to use I refer to templars always being low on energy)

now I can't feedback corruptors and I can't feedback thors; wtf? why? now they only need to make medivac-heal cooldown based and the only real use for feedback would be vs ghosts - yeah right, awsome when EMP is >>>> feedback in every conceivable aspect


Because Thors and Corruptors aren't casters! Most of time they never use their abilites which makes them walking ducks for HTs.

You can also add energy to Ultras and give them useless ability so they can be feedbacked and be worthless... Will that be ok?


the first argument is ridiculous - it doesn't matter what they are if it makes sense gameplay-wise; medivacs are flying mechanical ships and not casters either; so I suppose you are in favour of removing energy from medivacs too? because obviously the healing-beam is some sort of highly advanced technology and nothing "magical" at all; same goes for the battle-cruiser, the banshee....

and as I said, if feedback isn't supposed to counter anything, then why is it in the game? besides feedbacking ghost the only real use is vs medivacs now; no it would not make sense to make ultras feedback-able....simply because it would be stupid gameplay-wise; feedbacking corruptors does make sense gameplay-wise because corruptors will only be in the game when I have colossi and/or phoenixes; now to get colossi AND templars is a pretty huge investment that I feel I should have the "right" to capitalize on; also it would be purely reactionary because zerg won't go corruptors unless I give him a reason to - without colossi/phoenixes zerg won't build a single corruptor anyways
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
October 15 2010 08:28 GMT
#1508
On October 15 2010 17:25 NeozooM wrote:
Show nested quote +


PF are expensive and they cost you an orbital command. If you do choose to repair it, you're spending quite a fair bit of resources and all you need to do is attack the SCVs.

Yesterday, I tried to heal a PF twice against a collosus player and then against a storm player. They both targeted my SCV's and I lost the expo so fast. It's not impossible to kill a PF, it's just hard if you don't target the workers.

If you couldn't repair a PF, they'd be pointless because they'd get like one or two shots off before they die.



are you serious.......?

ok, i won't answer. two shot a PF ? as a zerg? yes of course.
"easy kill 15workers before killing the monster of 3000hp 3armor kicking butt at 50 range 7 and speed 1 attack...."





I mean, the Planetary Fortress only shot twice before it died against a Protoss yesterday when I couldn't repair it. Seriously, I don't know how it works against zerg because I never really build it against zerg, but Protoss can definately kill it fast.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
uzas
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia52 Posts
October 15 2010 08:30 GMT
#1509
Its not a patch, its a complete redesign. And i cannot believe how many ppl like this. Supply for rax? I just cannot believe. Removing mana and making cooldown abilities? Is this starcraft or what? Just my opinion.
NeozooM
Profile Joined July 2010
France55 Posts
October 15 2010 08:30 GMT
#1510

I mean, the Planetary Fortress only shot twice before it died against a Protoss yesterday when I couldn't repair it. Seriously, I don't know how it works against zerg because I never really build it against zerg, but Protoss can definately kill it fast.



look sen vs TLO...... you'll see if it works against zerg.
vikings +PF = win
What the heck
ayababa
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia347 Posts
October 15 2010 08:31 GMT
#1511
looks like the THOR 250mm strike cannons might get used now.. only against things like colosi but..

i await the Protoss players calling for a nerf........ bio ball + thor = rape vs robo + gate builds.
Well done is better than well said - Benjamin Franklin
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
October 15 2010 08:31 GMT
#1512
On October 15 2010 17:30 uzas wrote:
Its not a patch, its a complete redesign. And i cannot believe how many ppl like this. Supply for rax? I just cannot believe. Removing mana and making cooldown abilities? Is this starcraft or what? Just my opinion.


The reasoning behind it, is Corrupters and Thors got ridiculously killed so fast in TvP and ZvP because especially ZvP, people had a ton of Stalkers already, then having an ability which almost one shot a corrupter wasn't exactly fair.

Thors were never built in TvP for the exact same reason, you just could never use them against Templar, feedback owned them as you could never use the energy.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
NeozooM
Profile Joined July 2010
France55 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 08:38:41
October 15 2010 08:38 GMT
#1513
I agree terran supply and nitro research nerf is either stupid or bad for BOTH terrans and opponents.... but, rest of the patch is great actually.

What the heck
ZergOwaR
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway280 Posts
October 15 2010 08:39 GMT
#1514
On October 15 2010 17:30 NeozooM wrote:
Show nested quote +

I mean, the Planetary Fortress only shot twice before it died against a Protoss yesterday when I couldn't repair it. Seriously, I don't know how it works against zerg because I never really build it against zerg, but Protoss can definately kill it fast.



look sen vs TLO...... you'll see if it works against zerg.
vikings +PF = win


you would need something extra than just that

belive i saaw a game in the gsl where a zerg leveled a PF in about 2.5 sec after the first attack landed on the PF

a small strike force of ling/bling could be a way to snipe undefended PF's
dig dig dig dig dig dig die!
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 08:43:02
October 15 2010 08:41 GMT
#1515
On October 15 2010 17:25 sleepingdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 16:52 Alpina wrote:
On October 15 2010 16:46 sleepingdog wrote:
lol why would they nerf feedback is beyond me - it's hard to get and hard to use as it is (with hard to use I refer to templars always being low on energy)

now I can't feedback corruptors and I can't feedback thors; wtf? why? now they only need to make medivac-heal cooldown based and the only real use for feedback would be vs ghosts - yeah right, awsome when EMP is >>>> feedback in every conceivable aspect


Because Thors and Corruptors aren't casters! Most of time they never use their abilites which makes them walking ducks for HTs.

You can also add energy to Ultras and give them useless ability so they can be feedbacked and be worthless... Will that be ok?


the first argument is ridiculous - it doesn't matter what they are if it makes sense gameplay-wise; medivacs are flying mechanical ships and not casters either; so I suppose you are in favour of removing energy from medivacs too? because obviously the healing-beam is some sort of highly advanced technology and nothing "magical" at all; same goes for the battle-cruiser, the banshee....

and as I said, if feedback isn't supposed to counter anything, then why is it in the game? besides feedbacking ghost the only real use is vs medivacs now; no it would not make sense to make ultras feedback-able....simply because it would be stupid gameplay-wise; feedbacking corruptors does make sense gameplay-wise because corruptors will only be in the game when I have colossi and/or phoenixes; now to get colossi AND templars is a pretty huge investment that I feel I should have the "right" to capitalize on; also it would be purely reactionary because zerg won't go corruptors unless I give him a reason to - without colossi/phoenixes zerg won't build a single corruptor anyways


Feedback is really good vs. ghosts, infestors, medivacs - that's its real use.

Medivacs are different story cause they use their energy a lot - it's not like they have always full energy which is useless..

While energy on corruptors is not that bad as on Thors it still feels awkward, cause they rarely use their spell so always flies with maximum energy.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Sully907
Profile Joined August 2010
United States97 Posts
October 15 2010 08:44 GMT
#1516
I'm not a really good player or anything, so maybe I'm missing something here, but what's the big deal about depot before rax? Don't most standard terran builds usually go depot first anyways? Isn't the only thing this prevents is super fast proxy barracks reapers? Which is what everyone is always complaining about anyways? Is there another popular build that involves getting a barracks first?
markim
Profile Joined October 2010
Cook Islands17 Posts
October 15 2010 08:45 GMT
#1517
Why the hell is Blizzard basing this patch on lower leagues and team games? You start to wonder who's making these patches and what their grasp of the game is in terms of actual gameplay.

I can see all those complaints on bnet forum are made by scrubs.

Voidrays
Really? you can't stop voidrays 1on1? If you're as good as you keep telling yourself you are, then it shouldn't be a problem. Unless you slack off on your scouting ala idra at GSL.

Reapers
At what point of the game do we usually see upgrade Reapers? Early, yes. Again, I can see a scrub getting reaper rushed by a good player doing placement matches.

Depo before Rax
Terran, Protos, and Zerg are 3 DIFFERENT races and deserves deviating mechanivs.
Uh seriously, there's nothing wrong with this. I'm a protoss and we do this all the time uh duh

Well why don't they change it so that evo before pool then huh? Well, young scrub, they won't because that would be ludicrous.
+ Show Spoiler +
albeit the way it's going now, we'll just have to keep on complaining then it's bounf to happen.


I won't touch on the unintended "double nerfs" that came with this.
Troll
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
October 15 2010 08:49 GMT
#1518
Void ray nerf, retarded.
Supply depot requirement, super retarded.
The removal of energy I think was a good idea for the corrupter, but for the thor I'm wondering how it will affect PvT. Only time will tell.
The buff to building health I think was a good idea as well.
Lets see how it plays out.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
Viruuus
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany451 Posts
October 15 2010 08:50 GMT
#1519
On October 15 2010 17:20 Mintastic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 16:41 Viruuus wrote:
On October 15 2010 16:25 Mintastic wrote:
On October 15 2010 16:17 Scarecrow wrote:
For how dominant terran is in both mu's this patch is a joke.

What are you basing this on? Statistics shown by blizzard don't show this. Tournament results don't show this. Blizzard themselves have said opposite that PvT favors P.

So are you going perhaps by personal experience? Or are you being swayed by the peer pressure of the forum Terran QQ that has been ongoing and wanted to join in on the bandwagon?


I don't approve of how you state stuff which is wrong, but you pretend to be right.
Check out the thread on this very board with the title: Tournament winners since 1.1
And then come back here and talk about no statistics or tournament results that show how good T was prepatch, thanks.

However, i think the changes might not be enough, but they are not as unsignificant as some ppl might think, it may eventually show in some time soon

I can't find this thread, link me plz.



using search function with the EXACT words i typed up there:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160713

youre welcome
Lee Jae Dong fighting!!!
Paradice
Profile Joined October 2010
New Zealand431 Posts
October 15 2010 08:50 GMT
#1520
No energy on corrupter? What units do the Protoss have to counter them now? Seeing as they hard counter both colossi and carrier, there must be *some* option?
Prev 1 74 75 76 77 78 93 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 4
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O84
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
RotterdaM2902
ComeBackTV 2243
IndyStarCraft 716
WardiTV517
CranKy Ducklings222
3DClanTV 189
Rex140
EnkiAlexander 120
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2902
IndyStarCraft 716
Rex 140
Vindicta 46
MindelVK 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31256
Shine 315
firebathero 258
BeSt 186
Soulkey 131
ZZZero.O 84
Hyun 64
Dewaltoss 63
yabsab 35
sSak 30
[ Show more ]
Free 25
Terrorterran 8
IntoTheRainbow 4
Dota 2
Gorgc6508
qojqva3904
Counter-Strike
fl0m4090
flusha170
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1274
Mew2King518
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor715
Liquid`Hasu474
Other Games
B2W.Neo730
Hui .201
KnowMe144
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2284
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 43
• Adnapsc2 13
• iHatsuTV 11
• Legendk 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki14
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Nemesis2371
• WagamamaTV710
Other Games
• imaqtpie1050
• Shiphtur207
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
16h 38m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 15h
WardiTV European League
1d 21h
Online Event
1d 23h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.