Very nice patch for zerg, although i disagree with fact for reaper speed, and depot before racks change, as well as the void ray nerf. I don't think any of the three were needed.

BlueBird.

United States3889 Posts

October 15 2010 00:32 GMT

#1245

On October 15 2010 09:30 vyyye wrote:

Show nested quote +

Reapers in team games were overpowered apparently.

ugh

gonna be interesting wathing MLG play out

opl3sa

United States27 Posts

October 15 2010 00:33 GMT

#1246

Everyone is talking about the supply depot before barracks change, and how stupid it is, and what it was supposed to prevent, vs what it actually prevents, and then they propose changes that actually fit the bill.

For example, everyone recognizes the change was to prevent the super early reapers.
Everyone realizes that another way of accomplishing the same thing, is to supply depots for add-ons.

Alternatively, putting the reaper speed increase on the Factory tech lab, makes no sense at all. Mainly due to the fact that i don't know. Reapers aren't a factory unit. Anyways, an alternate way of resolving this (in fact it's a double whammy - preventing barracks from being built is good enough, putting the speed upgrade in a factory unit is overkill) is simply to put reapers speed back to 100/100.

So first they said ok no one is getting reaper speed, and then they lower the cost. Then they say ok everyone is getting reaper speed, so they literally removed it from the barracks tech lab altogether.

Seems to me that blizzard is over-reacting, which is the very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very veyr veyr vey ry last thiung you would ever want to do in a pro game.

fantomex

United States313 Posts

October 15 2010 00:33 GMT

#1247

The only reason the Thor upgrade existed was so Thors had mana and could be feedbacked. If they don't want Thor's to be Feedbacked, why not just remove the ability? No one uses it because its designed to be useless.

leve15

United States301 Posts

October 15 2010 00:36 GMT

#1248

I don't think they made a barracks require a depot for reapers. I think they did it because you could get an orbital command on 11, and the early mule would nullify the fact that you cut scvs, thus making the build unfair.

Delarchon

Finland132 Posts

October 15 2010 00:37 GMT

#1249

Patches like this hurts the game.

When putting the balance aside for awhile the game is getting more boring to watch and play.

There was / is a thread here on TL (which i just really can't find anymore) where someone was talking about this what was referred as a "wow moment", if my memory serves me right, where a player would be able to do something awesome, microing incredibly good or pulling of some kind of a cool maneuver.

Was there really some kind of an autowin situation with the early reapers, charged vr's or medivac drops?

Some players will say that these things are gimmicky but these were really exciting to watch on tournaments and to try in games.

Like for example this void ray and roach range change.

"You zerg! Make some of these roaches here they have longer range now. And you protoss better go ahead and make some vr's with your army since stalkers and walls are not so good anymore. Now a-move and we'll see how it will go!"

CryHavok

15 Posts

October 15 2010 00:38 GMT

#1250

On October 15 2010 09:33 fantomex wrote:
The only reason the Thor upgrade existed was so Thors had mana and could be feedbacked. If they don't want Thor's to be Feedbacked, why not just remove the ability? No one uses it because its designed to be useless.

I actually used the 250mm today to once I hit about 3-4 bases just to add to my late game thor drop. I found that thors are insanely effective now that FeedBack is out of the picture and think i'll get them in ever TvP I play for at least the next few weeks. This was at the 1400-1600 range FYI

Cannon has its uses, but I wouldn't expect to see it used very frequently, overall I like the patch, aside from making reapers 100% not worth making, it seems like some decent changes

TedJustice

Canada1324 Posts

October 15 2010 00:38 GMT

#1251

I think it's still technically possible for hellions to kite roaches. You just need another hellion behind it, and you need to target the hellion, and the splash will hit the roach.

Totally impractical though.

Subversion

South Africa3627 Posts

October 15 2010 00:41 GMT

#1252

THIS IS AWESOME!

i love these changes, esp nerfing the damn charged ray, it was so frikken broken

greycubed

United States615 Posts

October 15 2010 00:41 GMT

#1253

Is it just me or is this game suddenly fun to play as a zerg again? Add a couple things like a separate rally point for overlords so the units I need to click aren't buried underneath them all, and add some kind of function to make spreading creep or doing larva injections a little bit easier and I could see myself playing every spare moment.

On October 15 2010 09:13 Mutaahh wrote:
they should fix when you have a hatch and a lair hotkeyed under 1 key, and you wanna make 2 queens asap, the 2 queens get queued at the hatch, and the lair wont produce a single queen.

No, they're different types of buildings. You should have to press the tab button, just like every other time you have different kinds of units selected. To do otherwise would be inconsistent and wouldn't make the game any easier. Just press the friggin tab button.

Grond

599 Posts

October 15 2010 00:41 GMT

#1254

Void Ray change seems questionable. I assume it is aimed at team play since they weren't all that powerful in 1x1. The buff to uncharged VRs seems much too small compared to the nerf to charged.

Antisocialmunky

United States5912 Posts

October 15 2010 00:41 GMT

#1255

The thing is that 11OC vs 15OC only holds true if you mule once more than your opponent the whole game. You still get a slightly lower return in the long run because you are short by 4 SCVs and you didn't have those 4 extra SCVs when you were building your OC. You get 2 SCVs back when they OC in a TvT but really it just breaks evenish.

The main reason is that you can't do a turbo reaper or the SC2 Equivalent of the FireBatHero fake bunker rush and basically come out ahead despite not really doing anything. I don't really know, maybe they were all cheering for TLO and wanted to punish Hyperdub for G3.

kain279

United States3 Posts

October 15 2010 00:41 GMT

#1256

this sucks, I loved void rays.

FrostedMiniWeet

United States636 Posts

October 15 2010 00:43 GMT

#1257

On October 15 2010 09:41 kain279 wrote:
this sucks, I loved void rays.

This is fantastic, I hated void rays.

lordmordor

United States209 Posts

October 15 2010 00:43 GMT

#1258

I really think the depot before barracks nerf was enough to make reapers more reasonable to deal with...having speed require a factory is kind of weird though, and seems like to much. If Reapers speed needed a nerf why not just slightly increase the upgrades gas cost or increase the time required to upgrade it?

Void Nerf is meh to me...it will still do pretty good damage if unscouted, especially if you wait for 2-3 of them. Will still do damage, if done properly will still possibly end games, but its going to be easier to respond to I feel.

Health increases all around seem pretty good, no complaints there

Thors will still likely never use the 250mm cannons, but now at least they can't be punished for an ability they don't use.

not being able to feedback corruptors is meh to me as well. Most people only get them to snipe the collosi from col+stalker balls....just focus them down with the stalker support while the collosi kill everything on the ground.

greycubed

United States615 Posts

October 15 2010 00:44 GMT

#1259

On October 15 2010 09:43 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is fantastic, I hated void rays.

This is alright; I was ambivalent about void rays.

GinDo

3327 Posts

October 15 2010 00:45 GMT

#1260

Reapers are still good early game without the speed, right up until they start pumping out alot of roaches. During this time you can expand. Then you get the factory you upgrade speed making it the fastest unit off creep and use them to harass and back stab.

Personally i feel that the build time should be reduced in light of all the recent nerfs. If not then at least give them more HP