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On October 15 2010 05:03 Mrbumbum wrote:
Spawning Pool = 200 Minerals
Drone = 50 Minerals
Pylon = 100 Minerals
Gateway = 150 Minerals
Supply Depot = 100 Minerals
Barracks = 150 Minerals
I don't see how anyone can claim a balance issue with the new depot before rax change, the numbers add up to me.
Add lost mining time when building the supply depot and barracks and then you have the correct numbers.
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On October 15 2010 05:03 Mrbumbum wrote:
Spawning Pool = 200 Minerals
Drone = 50 Minerals
Pylon = 100 Minerals
Gateway = 150 Minerals
Supply Depot = 100 Minerals
Barracks = 150 Minerals
I don't see how anyone can claim a balance issue with the new depot before rax change, the numbers add up to me.
Zerg has multiple larvae
Protoss has chronoboost
Overall the depot before rax just sounds stupid.
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On October 15 2010 05:07 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:02 Kiante wrote:
+2 attack thors + ghosts = 3 shot immortals while immortals take 8 shots to kill a thor. Mass thor tvp IS A GO For about two games, then people realise voids still barbecue thors.
the problem is that the tech structure will usually be there for protoss to pump out immortals and not to mention most players are so unfamiliar with the void rays they still think it has 3 charges
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Did they have to nerf reapers even more? They are probably trying to nerf fast/mass reapers in team games, but reapers were already hardly used in 1v1, and now it's complete trash. Void ray could've used some nerf, but it seems quite harsh. I think decreasing charged damage down to 20 against armored would've been fine.
2 biggest changes in this patch tho are roach range upgrade and medivac speed decrease. Makes zerg's early game defense much easier, especially against now seldom used reapers and more commonly used hellions. Terran's mid game drop harass is now marginally easier to defend. Drop harass is still very effective, but defense has more time to set up and more chances to kill the running medivac.
Can't wait for GSL2 to start next week and see how things pan out. I still believe Marauders are by far the most imba unit in the game and PvZ mid to late game is still pretty hard.
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I can only help but smile. :D
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I'm not happy with most of the changes.
I think the Zerg changes were necessary, but Hydras still need either a buff or an researchable upgrade in the game that will make them viable.
I am not happy with the Terran changes at all. I don't see the point in reapers now, a much smarter nerf would have been to increase the upgrade cost from 50/50 to 100/100.
As a Terran I don't like to cheese, because my reaper kiting sucks, therefore I play standard depot before rax in 99% of my games, but still it limits the Terran openings a lot. I enjoyed watching players like SeleCT open with proxy rax and on the other hand the other player defend the proxy. But this option will be gone now 
The corruptor change is a joke in my opinion, this unit (its special ability) is still very uncreative compared to vikings/phoenix.
Also the void ray nerf is so uncreative, redo the whole thing instead of just decreasing the damage.
Obviously Blizzard isn't sure about the role of the reaper and the void ray in standard games. Give the reaper a mid/lategame option and give corruptors some ability to use them not only as AA, so they can compete with vikings/phoenix.
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On October 15 2010 05:06 theqat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:05 Roggay wrote:On October 15 2010 05:03 theqat wrote:On October 15 2010 05:02 Roggay wrote:On October 15 2010 05:00 theqat wrote:On October 15 2010 04:59 Roggay wrote:On October 15 2010 04:57 MK4512 wrote:
Boo! No more feedbacking thors D: that kind of make ht/chargelot less viable against them... Thors aren't common in TvP, immortals... Immortals < Thors with 250mm, by a lot What? Some people did research that? Oo 1 250mm kills an Immortal dead because it ignores their special shields If they have enough Immortals that that wouldn't matter, you've already won because Immortals suck at everything but killing Thors/Tanks and marauders. Immortals aren't that good if you only mass them, but they are good at supporting an army imo. The point stands. If you want to go Marauders vs. P and they counter with 1robo Immortals, you can start making 250mm Thors and nullify all the Immortals easily
But you seem to neglect the fact that it takes a lot of time and ressource to do all of that, and it doesnt pay that much to kill some immortal but losing key units (because you lack ressource/factory used).
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I just think it's insane putting these patches like 1 day before an event. They should have done this like just when GSL ended or something. I just can't imagine what goes through some players minds right now as they are on their plane going to DC for MLG
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On October 15 2010 05:06 Invol2ver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 04:40 Scoop wrote:On October 15 2010 04:32 MrCon wrote:
And yes, the supply before rax is like the worst change in sc2+bw+sc history.
It's impossible to find a logical or reasonable explanation for it. It only deletes T cheese from the game (hoho, fear the T cheese), it deletes some builds too, it's nothing really game changing, I don't know the purpose of that.
It's like they would make overlord required for pool. Not a big deal but still you don't understand why they would do this.
Zerg has an overlord from the beginning. because our command structure desn't give us 10 supply? Try harder please.
Wtf are you talking about? Did you even read hte post he was quoting?
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On October 15 2010 05:03 Mrbumbum wrote:
Spawning Pool = 200 Minerals
Drone = 50 Minerals
Pylon = 100 Minerals
Gateway = 150 Minerals
Supply Depot = 100 Minerals
Barracks = 150 Minerals
I don't see how anyone can claim a balance issue with the new depot before rax change, the numbers add up to me.
It's not a balance issue. And for the record, numbers like that are so incredibly useless for balance discussions I really wish people would quit it. Terran could have a unit called the imbalancelot made from the barracks that costs 100 minerals and is a zealot, except 20 more hp. And the game could still be perfectly balanced.
The game is asymmetrical, and one race having options the other doesn't is not a problem. Rax first rushes weren't too strong against anything and were very rarely done. It's exciting to watch them when they do happen. Now the game is less exciting, without improving balance. That's a bad change.
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On October 15 2010 05:03 Mrbumbum wrote:
Spawning Pool = 200 Minerals
Drone = 50 Minerals
Pylon = 100 Minerals
Gateway = 150 Minerals
Supply Depot = 100 Minerals
Barracks = 150 Minerals
I don't see how anyone can claim a balance issue with the new depot before rax change, the numbers add up to me.
You only need to build one spawning pool, and you can't create protoss buildings without a psi field first.
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On October 15 2010 05:08 Reggae-Troll wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:03 Mrbumbum wrote:
Spawning Pool = 200 Minerals
Drone = 50 Minerals
Pylon = 100 Minerals
Gateway = 150 Minerals
Supply Depot = 100 Minerals
Barracks = 150 Minerals
I don't see how anyone can claim a balance issue with the new depot before rax change, the numbers add up to me.
Add lost mining time when building the supply depot and barracks and then you have the correct numbers.
+ account for having one less drone/larva.
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Just by looking at the ammount of terran wins in tournaments, everyone knew something had to be done. Now that they do something everyone whos not zerg is crying. Yes the reaper is bad now, yes void rays are not so good anymore, yes you wont be able to punish FE zergs so easy anymore.
So what? Its still millions of potent openings for terran, and protoss vs zerg is only gonna be affected by the roach range. You still have immortals to fucking RAPE them, but now you cant rape them with any kind of unit combo.... Mass blink stalkers raped them, forcefields raped them, colossus raped them, immortal raped them. The biggest change is that you cant safely expand behind one cannon after pylonblocking the zerg ramp.
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On October 15 2010 05:08 megagoten wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:07 Yaotzin wrote:On October 15 2010 05:02 Kiante wrote:
+2 attack thors + ghosts = 3 shot immortals while immortals take 8 shots to kill a thor. Mass thor tvp IS A GO For about two games, then people realise voids still barbecue thors. the problem is that the tech structure will usually be there for protoss to pump out immortals and not to mention most players are so unfamiliar with the void rays they still think it has 3 charges
Yeah I have no doubt it'll work a bunch on people who are all "wtf is a thor!?", but Protoss can still kill them pretty easily. This retarded nothing-but-thor that you see in TvZ will never work really.
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As a Zerg player, I love these changes. They addressed many of my concerns, especially with how fast our buildings die.
The medevac nerf is very nice too.
However, I think the Reaper nerf was over kill.
I also really don't like the depot requirement; but who knows, I'm sure there's gonna be lots of creative 6 depo play. I just feel rax before depo made early game more dynamic.
All that's left now is a fix to Hydras and I'll be one happy Zerg Z('.'z)
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What the fuck Blizzard.
Barracks before supply was fine, there was never any overtly abusive rushes or strategies that resulted from this, and it just feels like you did it to say, "Hey, we're nerfing Terran some more, mmmkkay?"
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On October 15 2010 05:08 Reggae-Troll wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:03 Mrbumbum wrote:
Spawning Pool = 200 Minerals
Drone = 50 Minerals
Pylon = 100 Minerals
Gateway = 150 Minerals
Supply Depot = 100 Minerals
Barracks = 150 Minerals
I don't see how anyone can claim a balance issue with the new depot before rax change, the numbers add up to me.
Add lost mining time when building the supply depot and barracks and then you have the correct numbers.
You mean like Zerg loses from making the pool?
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HELLL YEAH! Though I feel like the supply depot requirement for Terran is a bit much.
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On October 15 2010 05:09 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:06 Invol2ver wrote:On October 15 2010 04:40 Scoop wrote:On October 15 2010 04:32 MrCon wrote:
And yes, the supply before rax is like the worst change in sc2+bw+sc history.
It's impossible to find a logical or reasonable explanation for it. It only deletes T cheese from the game (hoho, fear the T cheese), it deletes some builds too, it's nothing really game changing, I don't know the purpose of that.
It's like they would make overlord required for pool. Not a big deal but still you don't understand why they would do this.
Zerg has an overlord from the beginning. because our command structure desn't give us 10 supply? Try harder please. Wtf are you talking about? Did you even read hte post he was quoting?
looks like he tried TOO hard trying to say try harder
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i wonder how many of these terran ragers open with rax depot as their normal build. I m not saying it's a great change, but it's definetly wont change as much as ppl would like to imply here
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EPT
