EPTbtw I'm just using one core, this laptop is actually a 1-core processor notebook.
Zerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 36
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
btw I'm just using one core, this laptop is actually a 1-core processor notebook. | ||
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On October 26 2010 12:24 Bumblebees wrote: edit: when I finished writing this post, it was at 6:25 5 muta Interesting. I was wondering if you could speed things up at all by pooling first and then going double-extractor, and was thinking about giving it a shot. | ||
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On October 26 2010 14:14 heishe wrote: how exactly do you know when this thing has finished calculating a build order? I just put in "5 mutalisiks" at deadline 6:00, let it run overnight on my slow laptop and it ran about 25 million cycles, but was still calculating when I decided to stop it. btw I'm just using one core, this laptop is actually a 1-core processor notebook. I highly doubt it's even possible to get 5 mutas by 6:00, so you've tasked it with an unsolvable problem. | ||
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On October 26 2010 12:24 Bumblebees wrote: 0017 finds 6:34 muta fairly fast for me. It doesn't seem that bad? I was just going by the first post in the thread that listed muta times. That one was closer to 7:00 or so. Which prompted me to try to beat it in the first place, because I knew for a fact 7:00 was beatable if you lair before queen. On October 26 2010 12:24 Bumblebees wrote: The 9/10OL is because of how it handle's resources, and the fact that it is not trying for optimal economy. It's trying to get to a specific game state as fast as possible, which means frequently the timing is very tight. What is optimal the very instant the BO finishes may be horrible the second after. What I'm saying though is that if it ever prefers 10OL (without a trick) for anything other than exactly a 10 pool, then the startup timings are off by enough that it's likely distorting everything else. Same goes for preferring an extractor trick over 9OL for anything other than exactly an 11 pool, because 12pool off 9OL starts faster than 12pool off an extractor trick. | ||
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Jaal
United States61 Posts
On October 26 2010 13:54 HanSoo wrote: Alternatively with more of an economy focus (my Disable All-ins checked, which is now apparently merged into the main trunk), it gave me 6:33 with 24 drones. + Show Spoiler + @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:34 M:54 G:0 L:2 S  /10 BuildDrone@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:51 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:51 M:106 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildOverlord @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:01 M:76 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 ExtractorTrick @1:01 M:51 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@1:03 Spawned: Extractor Trick Finished, Drone Restored @1:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:16 Spawned: Overlord+1 @1:16 M:126 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:16 M:76 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @1:18 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:30 M:133 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildExtractor @1:33 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:33 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:42 M:206 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildSpawningPool @1:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:48 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:54 M:50 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @2:00 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:00 M:47 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 MineGas @2:00 M:47 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 MineGas @2:00 M:47 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildExtractor @2:02 Mining: +1 on gas @2:02 Mining: +1 on gas @2:05 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:05 M:50 G:5 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @2:11 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:15 M:65 G:19 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone @2:15 M:15 G:19 L:0 S:14/18 MineGas @2:17 Mining: +1 on gas @2:22 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:30 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:30 M:115 G:47 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone @2:30 M:65 G:47 L:0 S:15/18 MineGas @2:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:32 Mining: +1 on gas @2:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:45 M:170 G:89 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone @2:45 M:120 G:89 L:0 S:16/18 MineGas @2:47 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:47 Mining: +1 on gas @2:50 M:153 G:105 L:0 S:16/18 BuildLair @3:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:00 M:74 G:38 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone @3:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:15 M:139 G:87 L:1 S:17/18 BuildOverlord @3:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:30 M:166 G:137 L:1 S:17/18 BuildDrone @3:40 Spawned: Overlord+1 @3:40 M:202 G:170 L:0 S:18/26 MineGas @3:42 Mining: +1 on gas @3:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:45 M:241 G:188 L:1 S:18/26 BuildDrone @3:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:00 M:318 G:245 L:1 S:19/26 BuildDrone @4:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:10 Spawned: Lairs+1 @4:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:15 M:405 G:302 L:1 S:20/26 BuildOverlord @4:15 M:305 G:302 L:0 S:20/26 BuildSpire @4:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:21 M:158 G:125 L:0 S:19/26 BuildQueen @4:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:30 M 2 G:159 L:1 S:21/26 BuildDrone@4:40 Spawned: Overlord+1 @4:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:45 M:180 G:216 L:1 S:22/34 BuildDrone @4:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:00 M:277 G:273 L:1 S:23/34 BuildDrone @5:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:11 Spawned: Queen+1 @5:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:15 M:383 G:330 L:1 S:24/34 BuildDrone @5:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:30 M:499 G:387 L:1 S:25/34 BuildOverlord @5:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:45 M:570 G:444 L:1 S:25/34 BuildOverlord @5:55 Spawned: Spire+1 @5:55 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:56 Spawned: Larva+4 @5:56 M:595 G:486 L:4 S:25/42 BuildMutalisk @5:56 M:495 G:386 L:3 S:27/42 BuildMutalisk @5:56 M:395 G:286 L:2 S:29/42 BuildMutalisk @5:56 M:295 G:186 L:1 S:31/42 BuildMutalisk @6:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:00 M:241 G:101 L:1 S:33/42 BuildMutalisk @6:10 Spawned: Overlord+1 @6:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:15 M:312 G:58 L:1 S:35/50 BuildDrone @6:29 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:29 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:29 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:29 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @6:33 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 58 ---Final Output--- At time: 6:33 Minerals: 467 Gas: 127 Supply: 36/50 Drones: 24 Overlords: 6 Queens: 1 Mutalisks: 5 Lairs: 1 Gas Extractors: 2 Spawning Pools: 1 Spire: 1 ------------------ Mon Oct 25 22:15:19 CDT 2010: 348588.0618193578 What do you mean main trunk? | ||
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Bumblebees
United States328 Posts
On October 26 2010 13:54 HanSoo wrote: Alternatively with more of an economy focus (my Disable All-ins checked, which is now apparently merged into the main trunk), it gave me 6:33 with 24 drones. + Show Spoiler + @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:34 M:54 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:51 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:51 M:106 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildOverlord @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:01 M:76 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 ExtractorTrick @1:01 M:51 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@1:03 Spawned: Extractor Trick Finished, Drone Restored @1:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:16 Spawned: Overlord+1 @1:16 M:126 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:16 M:76 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @1:18 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:30 M:133 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildExtractor @1:33 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:33 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:42 M:206 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildSpawningPool @1:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:48 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:54 M:50 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @2:00 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:00 M:47 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 MineGas @2:00 M:47 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 MineGas @2:00 M:47 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildExtractor @2:02 Mining: +1 on gas @2:02 Mining: +1 on gas @2:05 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:05 M:50 G:5 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @2:11 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:15 M:65 G:19 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone @2:15 M:15 G:19 L:0 S:14/18 MineGas @2:17 Mining: +1 on gas @2:22 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:30 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:30 M:115 G:47 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone @2:30 M:65 G:47 L:0 S:15/18 MineGas @2:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:32 Mining: +1 on gas @2:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:45 M:170 G:89 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone @2:45 M:120 G:89 L:0 S:16/18 MineGas @2:47 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:47 Mining: +1 on gas @2:50 M:153 G:105 L:0 S:16/18 BuildLair @3:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:00 M:74 G:38 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone @3:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:15 M:139 G:87 L:1 S:17/18 BuildOverlord @3:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:30 M:166 G:137 L:1 S:17/18 BuildDrone @3:40 Spawned: Overlord+1 @3:40 M:202 G:170 L:0 S:18/26 MineGas @3:42 Mining: +1 on gas @3:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:45 M:241 G:188 L:1 S:18/26 BuildDrone @3:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:00 M:318 G:245 L:1 S:19/26 BuildDrone @4:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:10 Spawned: Lairs+1 @4:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:15 M:405 G:302 L:1 S:20/26 BuildOverlord @4:15 M:305 G:302 L:0 S:20/26 BuildSpire @4:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:21 M:158 G:125 L:0 S:19/26 BuildQueen @4:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:30 M 2 G:159 L:1 S:21/26 BuildDrone@4:40 Spawned: Overlord+1 @4:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:45 M:180 G:216 L:1 S:22/34 BuildDrone @4:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:00 M:277 G:273 L:1 S:23/34 BuildDrone @5:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:11 Spawned: Queen+1 @5:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:15 M:383 G:330 L:1 S:24/34 BuildDrone @5:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:30 M:499 G:387 L:1 S:25/34 BuildOverlord @5:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:45 M:570 G:444 L:1 S:25/34 BuildOverlord @5:55 Spawned: Spire+1 @5:55 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:56 Spawned: Larva+4 @5:56 M:595 G:486 L:4 S:25/42 BuildMutalisk @5:56 M:495 G:386 L:3 S:27/42 BuildMutalisk @5:56 M:395 G:286 L:2 S:29/42 BuildMutalisk @5:56 M:295 G:186 L:1 S:31/42 BuildMutalisk @6:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:00 M:241 G:101 L:1 S:33/42 BuildMutalisk @6:10 Spawned: Overlord+1 @6:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:15 M:312 G:58 L:1 S:35/50 BuildDrone @6:29 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:29 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:29 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:29 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @6:33 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 58 ---Final Output--- At time: 6:33 Minerals: 467 Gas: 127 Supply: 36/50 Drones: 24 Overlords: 6 Queens: 1 Mutalisks: 5 Lairs: 1 Gas Extractors: 2 Spawning Pools: 1 Spire: 1 ------------------ Mon Oct 25 22:15:19 CDT 2010: 348588.0618193578 It turns out that after some testing it fails pretty hard for more than 1 hatchery. Only taking into account the production that a single hatchery would produce means that when you add a second hatchery, it will not maintain worker parity with a terran who has 2 command centers. There is another better solution being discussed that's a combination of the worker parity idea and drone weighting. btw, if I was better with the ide's svn plugin I'm using, I'd have explicitly noted your contribution to the idea. | ||
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kef
283 Posts
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On October 26 2010 14:14 heishe wrote: how exactly do you know when this thing has finished calculating a build order? I just put in "5 mutalisiks" at deadline 6:00, let it run overnight on my slow laptop and it ran about 25 million cycles, but was still calculating when I decided to stop it. btw I'm just using one core, this laptop is actually a 1-core processor notebook. It never stops trying to improve, but I think it's more efficient to first figure out a solid time it'd take for your requirements by giving it ample time, and then if you want to squeeze a few seconds set the deadline to a little bit faster than the fastest time you've found. | ||
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Ctuchik
Sweden91 Posts
On October 26 2010 09:06 hid wrote: Not sure if I actually got all the waypoints right (looks like it), but the best BO I found for those requirements was 6:25, after running the program for about 10 minutes. (Guessing there might be a few more seconds to shave off since it came up with that in just 10 minutes?) http://pastebin.com/Ub6NHpM5 That looks pretty much like what I got after 119million games. Last update was 11 hours ago so I guess it's pretty optimized. + Show Spoiler + 9 Overlord M:105 G:0 16 Hatchery M:309 G:0 15 SpawningPool M:201 G:0 17 Overlord M:221 G:0 17 Extractor M:121 G:0 18 Queen M:328 G:1 21 Queen M:275 G:30 25 Overlord M:181 G:58 28 Zergling M:295 G:115 29 MetabolicBoost M:311 G:125 30 RoachWarren M:303 G:44 31 Overlord M:264 G:72 35 Overlord M:195 G:101 41 Queen M:155 G:139 43 Overlord M:104 G:148 45 Roach M:121 G:167 48 Roach M:86 G:150 50 Roach M:79 G:131 Of course lings at 5 mins is probably to slow. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
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Sidus
Canada6 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:12 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:23 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:29 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:32 M:50 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@0:40 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:49 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:49 M:104 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildOverlord @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:14 Spawned: Overlord+1 @1:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:17 M:202 G:0 L:3 S:10/18 BuildSpawningPool @1:25 M:53 G:0 L:3 S /18 BuildDrone@1:33 M:54 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone @1:40 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:40 M:48 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildExtractor @1:42 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:45 M:54 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone @1:50 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:52 M:51 G:0 L:1 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:55 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:56 M:29 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildExtractor @2:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:03 M:50 G:0 L:1 S:11/18 BuildDrone @2:09 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:10 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:10 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:11 M:55 G:3 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @2:20 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:22 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:25 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:25 M:88 G:30 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone @2:26 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:28 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:40 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:42 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:48 M:155 G:117 L:1 S:14/18 BuildLair @2:55 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:56 M:50 G:48 L:2 S:14/18 BuildDrone @3:05 M:50 G:82 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone @3:10 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:13 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:14 M:52 G:116 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone @3:22 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:25 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:31 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:40 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:55 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:08 Spawned: Lairs+1 @4:08 M:409 G:321 L:3 S:17/18 BuildSpire @4:08 M:209 G:121 L:3 S:16/18 BuildQueen @4:14 M:101 G:144 L:3 S:18/18 BuildOverlord @4:29 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:39 Spawned: Overlord+1 @4:39 M:179 G:239 L:3 S:18/26 BuildDrone @4:39 M:129 G:239 L:2 S:19/26 BuildOverlord @4:54 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:56 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:58 Spawned: Queen+1 @5:04 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:09 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:43 Spawned: Larva+4 @5:43 M:519 G:482 L:7 S:19/34 BuildDrone @5:48 Spawned: Spire+1 @5:48 M:509 G:501 L:6 S:20/34 BuildMutalisk @5:48 M:409 G:401 L:5 S:22/34 BuildMutalisk @5:48 M:309 G:301 L:4 S:24/34 BuildMutalisk @5:48 M:209 G:201 L:3 S:26/34 BuildMutalisk @5:48 M:109 G:101 L:2 S:28/34 BuildMutalisk @5:54 M:56 G:24 L:1 S:30/34 BuildDrone @5:58 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:00 Spawned: Drone+1 @6:00 M:53 G:47 L:1 S:31/34 BuildDrone @6:11 Spawned: Drone+1 @6:13 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 47 ---Final Output--- At time: 6:21 Minerals: 194 Gas: 127 Supply: 32/34 Drones: 20 Overlords: 4 Queens: 1 Mutalisks: 5 Lairs: 1 Gas Extractors: 2 Spawning Pools: 1 Spire: 1 ------------------ Tue Oct 26 01:14:10 MDT 2010: 364713.56841905875 However, it has seemed to me that there were clear signs of poor optimization in the builds from this program (e.g. fast pool then a significant delay before lair or queen). It may be getting stuck on local optima. I attempted to duplicate the above build as closely as possible into Haploid's build order calculator: + Show Spoiler + 10 Overlord 10 Spawning Pool 11 Extractor > put 3 on gas 12 Extractor > put 3 on gas 14 Lair 17 Spire 16 Queen > Spawn Larvae 18 Overlord 19 Overlord 20 Mutalisk [5] 30 Drone [2] with result: + Show Spoiler + # Started Completed Supply Larvae Object Minerals Gas Energy 0 0:00 0:17 6 / 10 2 Drone 0 0 1 0:11 0:28 7 / 10 1 Drone 0 0 2 0:22 0:39 8 / 10 1 Drone 0 0 3 0:32 0:49 9 / 10 1 Drone 0 0 4 0:49 1:14 10 / 10 1 Overlord 0 0 5 1:17 2:22 10 / 18 3 Spawning Pool 0 0 6 1:25 1:42 9 / 18 2 Drone 0 0 7 1:33 1:50 10 / 18 2 Drone 0 0 8 1:37 2:07 11 / 18 2 Extractor 0 0 9 1:46 2:03 10 / 18 2 Drone 0 0 10 1:53 2:10 11 / 18 1 Drone 0 0 11 1:57 2:27 12 / 18 1 Extractor 0 0 12 2:05 2:22 11 / 18 1 Drone 0 0 13 2:07 2:07 12 / 18 1 Transfer 3 workers to gas 18 0 14 2:13 2:30 12 / 18 0 Drone 0 11 15 2:22 2:39 13 / 18 0 Drone 0 28 16 2:27 2:27 14 / 18 0 Transfer 3 workers to gas 30 37 17 2:50 4:10 14 / 18 2 Lair 0 26 18 2:59 3:16 14 / 18 1 Drone 0 59 19 3:08 3:25 15 / 18 1 Drone 0 93 20 3:17 3:34 16 / 18 1 Drone 0 127 21 4:10 5:50 17 / 18 3 Spire 193 128 22 4:10 5:00 16 / 18 3 Queen 43 128 23 4:18 4:43 18 / 18 2 Overlord 0 159 24 4:40 5:05 18 / 18 2 Overlord 50 240 25 4:43 5:00 18 / 26 1 Drone 25 253 26 4:47 5:04 19 / 26 1 Drone 0 267 27 5:00 5:40 20 / 26 2 Spawn Larvae 93 317 0 28 5:50 6:23 20 / 34 6 Mutalisk 410 406 28 29 5:50 6:23 22 / 34 5 Mutalisk 310 306 28 30 5:50 6:23 24 / 34 4 Mutalisk 210 206 28 31 5:50 6:23 26 / 34 3 Mutalisk 110 106 28 32 5:50 6:23 28 / 34 2 Mutalisk 10 6 28 33 5:55 6:12 30 / 34 1 Drone 0 24 31 34 6:01 6:18 31 / 34 1 Drone 0 46 34 Haploid's calculator gives 6:23 instead of 6:21, for comparison to the below. I manually tweaked the build to get the following: + Show Spoiler + 9 Overlord 13 Spawning Pool 12 Extractor > put 3 on gas 11 Extractor > put 3 on gas 14 Lair 17 Overlord 17 Spire 16 Queen 22 Spawn Larvae 22 Overlord 22 Mutalisk [5] 32 Drone [2] with result: + Show Spoiler + # Started Completed Supply Larvae Object Minerals Gas Energy 0 0:00 0:17 6 / 10 2 Drone 0 0 1 0:11 0:28 7 / 10 1 Drone 0 0 2 0:22 0:39 8 / 10 1 Drone 0 0 3 0:41 1:06 9 / 10 1 Overlord 0 0 4 0:49 1:06 9 / 10 1 Drone 0 0 5 1:06 1:23 10 / 18 1 Drone 58 0 6 1:06 1:23 11 / 18 0 Drone 8 0 7 1:15 1:32 12 / 18 0 Drone 19 0 8 1:37 2:42 13 / 18 1 Spawning Pool 0 0 9 1:40 2:10 12 / 18 1 Extractor 0 0 10 1:43 2:13 11 / 18 1 Extractor 0 0 11 1:50 2:07 10 / 18 1 Drone 0 0 12 1:58 2:15 11 / 18 0 Drone 0 0 13 2:05 2:22 12 / 18 0 Drone 0 0 14 2:10 2:10 13 / 18 0 Transfer 3 workers to gas 39 0 15 2:13 2:13 13 / 18 0 Transfer 3 workers to gas 57 6 16 2:15 2:32 13 / 18 0 Drone 12 11 17 2:42 4:02 14 / 18 1 Lair 0 16 18 2:51 3:08 14 / 18 1 Drone 0 49 19 3:00 3:17 15 / 18 1 Drone 0 83 20 3:09 3:26 16 / 18 0 Drone 0 117 21 3:24 3:49 17 / 18 0 Overlord 0 174 22 4:02 5:42 17 / 26 3 Spire 93 118 23 4:10 5:00 16 / 26 3 Queen 0 149 24 4:18 4:35 18 / 26 2 Drone 0 176 25 4:25 4:42 19 / 26 1 Drone 0 203 26 4:32 4:49 20 / 26 1 Drone 0 230 27 4:39 4:56 21 / 26 0 Drone 0 255 28 5:00 5:40 22 / 26 2 Spawn Larvae 193 338 0 29 5:00 5:25 22 / 26 1 Overlord 93 338 0 30 5:42 6:15 22 / 34 6 Mutalisk 403 396 24 31 5:42 6:15 24 / 34 5 Mutalisk 303 296 24 32 5:42 6:15 26 / 34 4 Mutalisk 203 196 24 33 5:42 6:15 28 / 34 3 Mutalisk 103 96 24 34 5:43 6:16 30 / 34 2 Mutalisk 13 0 24 35 5:47 6:04 32 / 34 2 Drone 0 14 26 36 5:52 6:09 33 / 34 1 Drone 0 34 29 Note a time of 6:16 and slightly better economy. Either discrepancies between the different programs make an optimal build in one far from optimal in the other, or the build order optimizer is not getting an extremely optimal build. | ||
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On October 26 2010 17:58 Sidus wrote: Note a time of 6:16 and slightly better economy. Either discrepancies between the different programs make an optimal build in one far from optimal in the other, or the build order optimizer is not getting an extremely optimal build. From my experience tonight of trying just about everything except pool-first followed by double extractors, I believe I can safely say that 12pool 11gas is always going to be faster than 13pool 12gas, which is what your 6:16 build shows. And the absolute fastest I was ever able to get 12pool 11gas to come was 6:29. (real in-game timings, not "theoretical optimal"). I'm pretty convinced that both of these tools (build optimizer and haploid's build timer) give misleading results (or even find incorrect solutions) because they ignore all the "real" stuff that happens, and those things matter more in the very early game. I would guess that having the incorrect timings for the first minute can throw everything off in a big way. | ||
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
If you don't start the queen and the spire simultaneously (or very close to it, the queen has a few seconds leeway), then you're delaying the 4th and 5th muta by whatever the queen delay is. And all of that depends on the lair timing, and I tried all sorts of things to get the lair earlier than my timing with 12pool 11gas (which started the lair at about 2:55), but everything I tried to get the lair faster gave a resource shortage when the lair was complete, meaning I couldn't start both the queen and the spire. And by the way, the point of all this is not actually to find the absolute fastest way to get to 5 mutas. The point is to try to show how important it is that timings match reality as closely as possible, for the solutions to even be correct. I tried a number of solutions that the optimizer spat out, and the results weren't even wholly consistent, as in the optimizer would say that one build was 10 seconds faster than another, but due to in-game reality constraints, the reverse was actually true. | ||
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Mesha
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
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militantonZ
Sweden18 Posts
I'd also like to see "Use first 100 gas for metabolic boost". On October 26 2010 22:04 Mesha wrote: Is there something like this for protoss or terran players? Read the thread please. Just view all posts and search for your question. | ||
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Mesha
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
On October 27 2010 00:15 militantonZ wrote: I love it. Would be awesome if there was a checkbox for "Produce 1 pair of zerglings as soon as Spawning Pool is finished". My lings ends up last in my 7-roach FE :D I'd also like to see "Use first 100 gas for metabolic boost". Read the thread please. Just view all posts and search for your question. You couldn't just answer instead of "Read the thread please. Just view all posts and search for your question"? | ||
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azzu
Germany141 Posts
On October 27 2010 00:26 Mesha wrote: You couldn't just answer instead of "Read the thread please. Just view all posts and search for your question"? You couldn't just answer instead of "You couldn't just answer instead of "Read the thread please. Just view all posts and search for your question"?"? No, there is nothing like this yet for terran or protoss, but it is planned (That's how it's done!) | ||
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HanSoo
United States17 Posts
On October 26 2010 17:58 Sidus wrote: I got a time of 6:21 for 5 mutalisks using v0015 in about 47 minutes. (I have v0017 running simultaneously but it has not gotten past 6:28 after 2 hours of running). + Show Spoiler + @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:12 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:23 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:29 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:32 M:50 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@0:40 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:49 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:49 M:104 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildOverlord @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:14 Spawned: Overlord+1 @1:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:17 M:202 G:0 L:3 S:10/18 BuildSpawningPool @1:25 M:53 G:0 L:3 S /18 BuildDrone@1:33 M:54 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone @1:40 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:40 M:48 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildExtractor @1:42 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:45 M:54 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone @1:50 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:52 M:51 G:0 L:1 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:55 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:56 M:29 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildExtractor @2:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:03 M:50 G:0 L:1 S:11/18 BuildDrone @2:09 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:10 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:10 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:11 M:55 G:3 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @2:20 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:22 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:25 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:25 M:88 G:30 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone @2:26 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:28 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:40 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:42 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:48 M:155 G:117 L:1 S:14/18 BuildLair @2:55 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:56 M:50 G:48 L:2 S:14/18 BuildDrone @3:05 M:50 G:82 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone @3:10 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:13 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:14 M:52 G:116 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone @3:22 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:25 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:31 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:40 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:55 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:08 Spawned: Lairs+1 @4:08 M:409 G:321 L:3 S:17/18 BuildSpire @4:08 M:209 G:121 L:3 S:16/18 BuildQueen @4:14 M:101 G:144 L:3 S:18/18 BuildOverlord @4:29 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:39 Spawned: Overlord+1 @4:39 M:179 G:239 L:3 S:18/26 BuildDrone @4:39 M:129 G:239 L:2 S:19/26 BuildOverlord @4:54 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:56 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:58 Spawned: Queen+1 @5:04 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:09 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:43 Spawned: Larva+4 @5:43 M:519 G:482 L:7 S:19/34 BuildDrone @5:48 Spawned: Spire+1 @5:48 M:509 G:501 L:6 S:20/34 BuildMutalisk @5:48 M:409 G:401 L:5 S:22/34 BuildMutalisk @5:48 M:309 G:301 L:4 S:24/34 BuildMutalisk @5:48 M:209 G:201 L:3 S:26/34 BuildMutalisk @5:48 M:109 G:101 L:2 S:28/34 BuildMutalisk @5:54 M:56 G:24 L:1 S:30/34 BuildDrone @5:58 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:00 Spawned: Drone+1 @6:00 M:53 G:47 L:1 S:31/34 BuildDrone @6:11 Spawned: Drone+1 @6:13 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:21 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 47 ---Final Output--- At time: 6:21 Minerals: 194 Gas: 127 Supply: 32/34 Drones: 20 Overlords: 4 Queens: 1 Mutalisks: 5 Lairs: 1 Gas Extractors: 2 Spawning Pools: 1 Spire: 1 ------------------ Tue Oct 26 01:14:10 MDT 2010: 364713.56841905875 That's not too bad. I left two copies of 0017 running overnight on 6 cores each and here are the results: Default 0017: + Show Spoiler + @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:34 M:54 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:43 M:55 G:0 L:1 S:10/10 BuildExtractor @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:47 M:52 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@0:51 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:04 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:13 Spawned: Extractor+1 @1:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:18 M:205 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildSpawningPool @1:25 M:50 G:0 L:3 S /10 BuildDrone@1:25 M:0 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 MineGas @1:25 M:0 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 MineGas @1:27 Mining: +1 on gas @1:27 Mining: +1 on gas @1:40 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:40 M:74 G:19 L:3 S:10/10 MineGas @1:42 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:42 Mining: +1 on gas @1:46 M:102 G:30 L:3 S:10/10 BuildOverlord @2:01 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:11 Spawned: Overlord+1 @2:23 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:23 M:185 G:100 L:3 S:10/18 BuildLair @2:26 M:50 G:6 L:3 S:10/18 BuildDrone @2:37 M:54 G:27 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @2:41 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:42 M:29 G:36 L:2 S:12/18 BuildExtractor @2:43 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:52 M:52 G:55 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @2:54 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:56 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:01 M:50 G:73 L:2 S:12/18 BuildDrone @3:09 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:11 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:12 Spawned: Extractor+1 @3:12 M:64 G 4 L:2 S:13/18 MineGas@3:14 Mining: +1 on gas @3:14 M:75 G 9 L:2 S:13/18 MineGas@3:16 Mining: +1 on gas @3:18 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:18 M 5 G:111 L:2 S:13/18 MineGas@3:20 Mining: +1 on gas @3:26 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:43 Spawned: Lairs+1 @3:43 M:218 G:206 L:3 S:13/18 BuildSpire @3:51 M:52 G:36 L:3 S:12/18 BuildDrone @4:03 M:54 G:82 L:2 S:13/18 BuildDrone @4:06 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:08 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:14 M:54 G:124 L:2 S:14/18 BuildDrone @4:20 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:21 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:23 M:50 G:158 L:2 S:15/18 BuildDrone @4:31 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:36 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:40 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:40 M:101 G:222 L:2 S:16/18 BuildOverlord @4:51 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:05 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:06 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:23 Spawned: Spire+1 @5:23 M:306 G:386 L:3 S:16/26 BuildMutalisk @5:23 M:206 G:286 L:2 S:18/26 BuildMutalisk @5:23 M:106 G:186 L:1 S:20/26 BuildMutalisk @5:38 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:38 M:112 G:143 L:1 S:22/26 BuildMutalisk @5:53 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:53 M:119 G:100 L:1 S:24/26 BuildMutalisk @5:53 M:19 G:0 L:0 S:26/26 MineMineral @5:55 Mining: +1 on mineral @5:56 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @5:56 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @5:56 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @5:56 M:42 G:10 L:0 S:26/26 MineMineral @5:58 Mining: +1 on mineral @6:08 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:11 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:23 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:26 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 58 ---Final Output--- At time: 6:26 Minerals: 299 Gas: 94 Supply: 26/26 Drones: 16 Overlords: 3 Mutalisks: 5 Lairs: 1 Gas Extractors: 2 Spawning Pools: 1 Spire: 1 ------------------ Tue Oct 26 03:41:45 CDT 2010: 359772.3617753764 Disable All-ins 0017: + Show Spoiler + @0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:34 M:54 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:51 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:51 M:106 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildOverlord @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:01 M:76 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 ExtractorTrick @1:01 M:51 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone@1:03 Spawned: Extractor Trick Finished, Drone Restored @1:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:16 Spawned: Overlord+1 @1:16 M:126 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:16 M:76 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @1:18 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:30 M:133 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildExtractor @1:33 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:33 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:42 M:206 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildSpawningPool @1:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:48 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @1:54 M:50 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @2:00 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:00 M:47 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildExtractor @2:00 M:22 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 MineGas @2:00 M:22 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 MineGas @2:02 Mining: +1 on gas @2:02 Mining: +1 on gas @2:05 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:05 M:50 G:5 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone @2:11 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:15 M:65 G:19 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone @2:15 M:15 G:19 L:0 S:14/18 MineGas @2:17 Mining: +1 on gas @2:22 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:30 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:30 M:115 G:47 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone @2:30 M:65 G:47 L:0 S:15/18 MineGas @2:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:32 Mining: +1 on gas @2:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:45 M:170 G:89 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone @2:47 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:47 M:134 G 4 L:0 S:16/18 MineGas@2:49 Mining: +1 on gas @2:50 M:154 G:104 L:0 S:16/18 BuildLair @3:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:00 M:75 G:37 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone @3:00 M:25 G:37 L:0 S:17/18 MineGas @3:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:02 Mining: +1 on gas @3:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:15 M:130 G 3 L:1 S:17/18 BuildOverlord@3:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @3:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:30 M:145 G:150 L:1 S:17/18 BuildDrone @3:40 Spawned: Overlord+1 @3:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:45 M:213 G:207 L:1 S:18/26 BuildDrone @3:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:00 M:290 G:264 L:1 S:19/26 BuildDrone @4:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:10 Spawned: Lairs+1 @4:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:15 M:376 G:321 L:1 S:20/26 BuildDrone @4:15 M:326 G:321 L:0 S:21/26 BuildSpire @4:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:18 M:152 G:133 L:0 S:20/26 BuildQueen @4:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:30 M:113 G:178 L:1 S:22/26 BuildDrone @4:32 Spawned: Drone+1 @4:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:45 M:210 G:235 L:1 S:23/26 BuildDrone @4:47 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:00 M:316 G:292 L:1 S:24/26 BuildOverlord @5:02 Spawned: Drone+1 @5:08 Spawned: Queen+1 @5:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:15 M:382 G:349 L:1 S:24/26 BuildOverlord @5:25 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:30 M:450 G:406 L:1 S:24/34 BuildOverlord @5:40 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @5:53 Spawned: Larva+4 @5:55 Spawned: Spire+1 @5:55 Spawned: Overlord+1 @5:55 M:630 G:501 L:5 S:24/50 BuildMutalisk @5:55 M:530 G:401 L:4 S:26/50 BuildMutalisk @5:55 M:430 G:301 L:3 S:28/50 BuildMutalisk @5:55 M:330 G:201 L:2 S:30/50 BuildMutalisk @5:55 M:230 G:101 L:1 S:32/50 BuildMutalisk @6:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:00 M:186 G:20 L:1 S:34/50 BuildOverlord @6:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @6:25 Spawned: Overlord+1 @6:28 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:28 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:28 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:28 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 @6:28 Spawned: Mutalisk+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 57 ---Final Output--- At time: 6:28 Minerals: 400 Gas: 127 Supply: 34/58 Drones: 22 Overlords: 7 Queens: 1 Mutalisks: 5 Lairs: 1 Gas Extractors: 2 Spawning Pools: 1 Spire: 1 ------------------ Tue Oct 26 03:28:31 CDT 2010: 357972.08870071213 | ||
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HanSoo
United States17 Posts
On October 26 2010 14:36 Bumblebees wrote: It turns out that after some testing it fails pretty hard for more than 1 hatchery. Only taking into account the production that a single hatchery would produce means that when you add a second hatchery, it will not maintain worker parity with a terran who has 2 command centers. There is another better solution being discussed that's a combination of the worker parity idea and drone weighting. btw, if I was better with the ide's svn plugin I'm using, I'd have explicitly noted your contribution to the idea. Yeah, I kind of realized that. Once the problem is expanded to more than one hatchery the problem gets much more complex. (Notice how in a real game when a zerg FEs their drone count is very low for a little while until the effects of the greater economy is able to kick in) | ||
Rasva_Pallo
Finland126 Posts
I downloaded the version 0017 of this program and I have two question: Where do I find the disable all-ins button? I seriously can't find this but I'm sure it's obvious where it was hiding once I do. Is there place to post some of the cool BOs you find with this? Thanks for future replies  | ||
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