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On October 09 2010 03:18 acrimoneyius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 03:06 billyX333 wrote:On October 09 2010 02:54 babolatt wrote:
As a lower level Terran, with the supply depot before barracks nerf I'm actually much more concerned about my ability to DEFEND cheese than perform it. you build a rax before depot to defend cheese? Or maybe he builds a rax while his depot is building and cuts an extra scv because he noticed an incoming cheese. Every second counts, especially considering terrans have the weakest early game unit in terms of cost (1 zealot kills 2 marines unless you micro perfectly, 4 lings easily kills 2 marines) and you won't have your wall-in by then. Regardless, its fucking stupid to COMPLETELY remove cheese from one race.
its no where near completely removed
moreover, one race?
zerg cant wall. t&p can block before 6 pool hits @ standard ramp width
and even then 6 pool is by far the easiest cheese to beat
On October 09 2010 03:28 Graven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 03:20 Trawler wrote:
From Cool: "Q. The 1.2 patch preview is out. The Zerg race will be getting a lot of buffs, I hear?
A. Yes, I was glad to hear that. I'm not sure how the patch will affect gameplay, and I don't want to make any conclusions until it is actually out. Though I don't play Protoss, it was somewhat disappointing to see nothing on improving PvT, where Terrans seem to have an advantage."
what a cocksocker. He obviusly said that the terran had the advantage over protoss just because he want to see terran nerfs. And the trust is, yes early game is favored to terran BUT mid / lategame is dominated by protoss. Colossi and psi storm is such a money-maker if in the right hands.
And nowdays the protoss has started to throw in alot of phenixes in their army to prevent vikings killing collosi + preventing drops. You're way off and sound really silly. He was quoted multiple times during the GSL saying he only thought he could win if he faced Terran since he didn't think he could beat top Protoss players. The general feel in Korea is that Protoss is OP.
PvZ has a higher win % for P then TvZ does for T, yet T gets called OP because T wins TvP more
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i dont play terran...but if they really wanna cheese why not just do something like 7 depot 9 rax? sure its sacrificing economy, but they should have to sac more econ if they want to cheese, because before they could 9 rax and get their orbital up super fast and then have mules to catch up
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On October 09 2010 04:10 JWD wrote:Always nice to get expert opinions, thanks for the translation OP. I'm very concerned about depot before rax, feel that it will eliminate a lot of the diversity of strategy that Terrans enjoyed in BW's very-early-game. Tweeted.
It also feels like they are quitting a BW staple strategy for good. That's what really hit me the most.
Also I agree with everyone being weirded out from progamers not mentioning hydras. They definitely need to be directed somewhere, either as a cheese-rush unit (faster den/unit production), as a mobile bust/map controlling unit (increased movement speed), or as everyone is saying just give them +30 hp and pretend they're fine.
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The thing about rax cheeses is that a fast rax allows for a quick orbital...which means fast mules. Which lets em catch up fast, esp cause zerg/toss needs to spend their macro mechanic on their army, chronoboosting zealots and getting more lings.
It is not the same as BW.
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On October 09 2010 03:42 andrewlt wrote:
Funny that Cool mentioned brood lords as needing a buff but not mentioning hydras. I don't remember him ever building a single hydra.
i don't think top gamers necessarily have great opinions on balance. they obv have the potential to know better than amateurs but it doesn't mean they won't say questionable things.
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Cool is crazyyyyy. Broodlords are crazy strong. Once zerg gets to lategame, all they have to do is mass broodlords and corruptors which will own everything.
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Yeah, I agree with Coo, Broodlords are a really bad option right now, especially against terran. They don't even need vikings for counter anymore. A few mm and focus fire takes care of broodlords really nicely.
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9071 Posts
the roach's evolution from its original concept and design is so interesting to follow. I think there is a big issue in general with balancing ground to ground range units. The 2 most absurd units in BW are g2g range - the siege tank and the vulture.
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I don't really know what this rax change is about anyway. Proxy raxes aren't really that hard to beat and are a huuuuge risk. I've been playing random since Beta and honestly I never felt that Terran early game is too strong. I am kind of sad that Blizzard takes away those possibilities without providing any alternatives.
To compare it to protoss is also rather stupid since they can possibly have a Zealot when terran has 1 Marine taking this change into account. Also it's not like you can skip the supply depot you have to build it anyway but you can start your rax at a earlier time which is pretty key if you want to go for early reapers since they require to build a tech lab also.
I think Blizzard has a done a good job with most of the patch changes but this one might be a overreaction and I strongly disagree with it.
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On October 09 2010 03:20 Trawler wrote:
From Cool: "Q. The 1.2 patch preview is out. The Zerg race will be getting a lot of buffs, I hear?
A. Yes, I was glad to hear that. I'm not sure how the patch will affect gameplay, and I don't want to make any conclusions until it is actually out. Though I don't play Protoss, it was somewhat disappointing to see nothing on improving PvT, where Terrans seem to have an advantage."
what a cocksocker. He obviusly said that the terran had the advantage over protoss just because he want to see terran nerfs. And the trust is, yes early game is favored to terran BUT mid / lategame is dominated by protoss. Colossi and psi storm is such a money-maker if in the right hands.
And nowdays the protoss has started to throw in alot of phenixes in their army to prevent vikings killing collosi + preventing drops.
Because arguably the best Zerg player in the world is totally just a QQer who can't be trusted to comment on a matchup he'll never have to play for money. Your reasoning is a little off, there.
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On October 09 2010 05:04 vnlegend wrote:
Cool is crazyyyyy. Broodlords are crazy strong. Once zerg gets to lategame, all they have to do is mass broodlords and corruptors which will own everything.
If you can get to broodlords without dying first you usually won the game already. It never feels like a turn-around-unit that muta, infestor and ultra does. They have certain situations where I try to use them, such as mass thor/hellion or an entrenched PF/cannon player. But thats about it.
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On October 09 2010 05:13 SharkSpider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 03:20 Trawler wrote:
From Cool: "Q. The 1.2 patch preview is out. The Zerg race will be getting a lot of buffs, I hear?
A. Yes, I was glad to hear that. I'm not sure how the patch will affect gameplay, and I don't want to make any conclusions until it is actually out. Though I don't play Protoss, it was somewhat disappointing to see nothing on improving PvT, where Terrans seem to have an advantage."
what a cocksocker. He obviusly said that the terran had the advantage over protoss just because he want to see terran nerfs. And the trust is, yes early game is favored to terran BUT mid / lategame is dominated by protoss. Colossi and psi storm is such a money-maker if in the right hands.
And nowdays the protoss has started to throw in alot of phenixes in their army to prevent vikings killing collosi + preventing drops. Because arguably the best Zerg player in the world is totally just a QQer who can't be trusted to comment on a matchup he'll never have to play for money. Your reasoning is a little off, there.
So? Cool's statement is rediculous nonetheless. There is not much you can do against a good Toss. Protoss is just in such a huge advantage when collosus are out. Before that, yeah Terran is in the advantage.
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just to make it more fairer and more standardized openings .. do you think they shouldincrease the cost of a spawning pool to 250? to be on par for the resources terrans and protoss have to pay for ?
that would make six pooling a few extra seconds longer and easier to defend .. now that protosszealot timing is nerfed . and now that zerg dont have to worry about 1 reaper to stop it. or.. fast rax to counter the pool.
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Brood Lords can be balanced by making them fire banelings.
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6 pool cheese all in with drones is almost a free win for the non-cheeser. I have about 80% win rate against 6 pool as Z.
Edit: Just pull all your workers and micro until your queen and first set of lings pop. The usual pitfall is pool placement and not scouting it before they reach your base. Be happy you can't proxy 6 pool :D
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Its kinda interesting that Tester and Cool have different opinions on PvT. FruitDealer is still whining after he won the most important tournament. But on the other hand, he offraces a lot, which can backup his argument.
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On October 09 2010 05:28 koonst wrote:
just to make it more fairer and more standardized openings .. do you think they shouldincrease the cost of a spawning pool to 250? to be on par for the resources terrans and protoss have to pay for ?
that would make six pooling a few extra seconds longer and easier to defend .. now that protosszealot timing is nerfed . and now that zerg dont have to worry about 1 reaper to stop it. or.. fast rax to counter the pool.
Making hatcheries require a spawning pool to be built would be nice, or make them take 35 seconds longer.
T/P can no longer take advantage of a zerg's early game if he goes FE after the next patch, though it already applies even now.
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I like Cool's interview more than both two. I think he was somewhat right how Terrans have a very slight advantage TvP wise. Just remembering the HongUnPrime vs. oGsEnsnare game 2 is just haunting me. I still can't figure out what HongUn could've done to beat that.
Cool played Protoss, what's he talking about...I have replays of him for proof o.0
lmao
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On October 09 2010 05:31 Radipon wrote:
Brood Lords can be balanced by making them fire banelings.
Haha, I suggested that to my friends a few months ago, they all laughed at me xD
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Yes, even in pro levels, hellion harass will be very difficult due to the range increase of the roach.
Its funny how Terran is getting nerfed pretty hard and you guys are all still talking about more Terran nerfs... come on.. be competitive and try to improve your game instead of complaining about it.
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EPT
