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On October 09 2010 21:13 Scoop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 21:03 Roggay wrote:
I'm wondering why everybody is assuming these changes are the final ones, obviously there is still plenty of time before blizzard release this patch and I'm pretty sure blizzard won't kill one of his unit like this (the reaper), they're too attached to it. And I'm pretty sure that they will reconsider depot > barracks because its pretty extreme at low level (low leagues) against 6pool. Well they didn't consider that when they made the zealot build time increase, why would they consider 6 pool now? And how does this change walling off? You make depot, rax, depot just like you would normally do if you weren't cheesing. Terran players seem pretty terrified of the idea that they might have to play like the other two races and actually survive in the early game. They have been spoiled.
Pretty much this, IMO. I'm SO sorry it'll actually take effort to survive in the early game 
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I was thinking about translating that, but it's just way too long. I'll leave that one to another translator 
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On October 09 2010 20:14 Crissaegrim wrote:Even Cool a ZERG player feels that PvT is still in favor of the terrans. Hope Blizz does something about it soon...
PvT/TvP is one of the best matchups right now. I don't know what you people are up to with your nonstop complaining but how about settling down a bit.
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On October 09 2010 21:45 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 20:14 Crissaegrim wrote:Even Cool a ZERG player feels that PvT is still in favor of the terrans. Hope Blizz does something about it soon... PvT/TvP is one of the best matchups right now. I don't know what you people are up to with your nonstop complaining but how about settling down a bit.
I doubt its the best matchup. All Im saying is that Cool, who is THE top zerg right now, yes better than Idra, is feeling that toss is still in a deficit. I dont know where you're getting your info from but id surely place more weight on what Cool is saying than some random guy like you.
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PVT is "arguably" fine, terran has an immense early advantage, while it shifts to the protoss in the later game.
But still, not the kind of thing i like to be called balanced.
(Has already been stated by many top players)
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Am I missing something, what patch preview is this?
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On October 09 2010 19:12 Speight wrote:
Cool! Nice to see some timely interviews on what might happen in the next patch. To be honest the annoucement for the next patch came a lot earlier than I expected. Good work Blizz!
I don't understand the mentality behind Terrans complaining about the supply depot before rax thing. Protoss need a pylon before they can proxy gate, and its not like Zerg can proxy a 6 pool or anything. Terran will just now have to deal with a 6 pool or some extremely early cheese in the same manner as protoss now does. Lets face it, good Protoss and Terrans should be praying for a Zerg to 6 pool, 90% of the time its giving away a free win.
Not to mention the popularity of 2 rax before depot on the Korean server. This change makes sense to me.
I've been doing a 2rax Depot for pressure into an FE so neat that Koreans are doing 2rax. Unless I mass marine to go into a crippled midgame or 3rax to stave off rushes, I have a hard time surviving into the midgame on their initial push/counterattack. I'd make bunkers, which are not free, but with the build time nerfed you have to scout attacks a lot earlier or blindly go bunkers and dedicate 100mins or more that could have gone into an expo or productionfacilityhere. Yes, you can salvage, but every mineral in the early game is essential.
Yes, I need to work on my early game, but thats one perspective from a lowly 1000 diamond player. We do make depots anyways but depot first is lost marine production, and I don't think you'll be able to make a barracks while depot is building like you can vise versa right now.
Hope this helps Speight and wasn't too Q_Q
On October 09 2010 21:53 JudoChopper wrote:
Am I missing something, what patch preview is this?
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/882511#blog <- Developer's blog posting about next patch
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On October 09 2010 21:49 Crissaegrim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 21:45 Baum wrote:On October 09 2010 20:14 Crissaegrim wrote:Even Cool a ZERG player feels that PvT is still in favor of the terrans. Hope Blizz does something about it soon... PvT/TvP is one of the best matchups right now. I don't know what you people are up to with your nonstop complaining but how about settling down a bit. I doubt its the best matchup. All Im saying is that Cool, who is THE top zerg right now, yes better than Idra, is feeling that toss is still in a deficit. I dont know where you're getting your info from but id surely place more weight on what Cool is saying than some random guy like you.
I said it's "one of the best". I get my info from actually playing the game and watching others play. I have been on both sides of the matchup for a reasonable amount of time and I found that while both sides have their weak spot it depends a lot on the map who is in the favorable position. It's okay for me if you value Cool's reasoning higher than mine but I think we have clearly seen in the past that pros aren't really balancing experts. I think it's pretty bad for the game if everyone keeps lobbying for balance changes since this will probably result in one dimensional matchups with only a few viable strats because everything else has been shut down.
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On October 09 2010 21:49 Crissaegrim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 21:45 Baum wrote:On October 09 2010 20:14 Crissaegrim wrote:Even Cool a ZERG player feels that PvT is still in favor of the terrans. Hope Blizz does something about it soon... PvT/TvP is one of the best matchups right now. I don't know what you people are up to with your nonstop complaining but how about settling down a bit. I doubt its the best matchup. All Im saying is that Cool, who is THE top zerg right now, yes better than Idra, is feeling that toss is still in a deficit. I dont know where you're getting your info from but id surely place more weight on what Cool is saying than some random guy like you.
And Idra feels like Protoss is a stronger race then Terran, go figure(SoTG podcast) He also believes Terran has the advantage early game and Protoss has the advantage late game.
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I get my info from actually playing the game
And Cool dosent play the game? And at a much higher level than most anyone here in this topic?
Im sure you have good intentions but people will always listen to someone in a position like Cool, especially since he dosent play T or P (can i guess something? you play T right?) thus his opinion is 100% neutral on the matter.
And Idra feels like Protoss is a stronger race then Terran, go figure(SoTG podcast) He also believes Terran has the advantage early game and Protoss has the advantage late game.
No offense to IdrA but i think most people will listen to Cool and take what he says as right
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For me, useing any of the builds i use, there will be very little TvZ effect, i do think something needs to be done TvZ, but not much, it is imba, but its not that bad, allot of people over talk it and put this massive idea in their heads that zerg can not win TvZ. Also zerg is harder to learn and always has been so its no wonder zergs are having truble when the game is so new. I think the depo before rax may change TvT operners allot, there is alwyas the fear of that rush. No proxyies for terran kinda seems a little silly, think that there would be more clever ways to help out zerg FEs. Like changings thaat maps, if the maps were bigger and had more open space it could help the balnce
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On October 09 2010 22:28 Raevin wrote:And Cool dosent play the game? And at a much higher level than most anyone here in this topic?
The point of this remark was to get back to a discussion with regards to contents away from simply believing what other people are saying.
On October 09 2010 22:28 Raevin wrote:Im sure you have good intentions but people will always listen to someone in a position like Cool, especially since he dosent play T or P (can i guess something? you play T right?) thus his opinion is 100% neutral on the matter.
Can you actually read my posts? I have said I am fine with valuing Cools statement higher than mine but I don't think it's actually worth a lot especially since he doesn't play both of those races. Also I have written that I have been on both sides of the matchup, I am playing random not solely terran.
On October 09 2010 22:28 Raevin wrote:Show nested quote +And Idra feels like Protoss is a stronger race then Terran, go figure(SoTG podcast) He also believes Terran has the advantage early game and Protoss has the advantage late game. No offense to IdrA but i think most people will listen to Cool and take what he says as right
No offense to both Idra and Cool but I think people should actually try to start figure things out for themselves and stop listening to some gosu pros. Basically what Cool is saying is that he "thinks" TvP is imbalanced but he doesn't give any reasons so there isn't really a substantial point in his statement. It's like saying "hey I don't really know about this matchup but it seem like it's imbalanced" which is a fair point to make but one shouldn't overvalue it just because it comes from a pro.
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No offense to both Idra and Cool but I think people should actually try to start figure things out for themselves and stop listening to some gosu pros. Basically what Cool is saying is that he "thinks" TvP is imbalanced but he doesn't give any reasons so there isn't really a substantial point in his statement. It's like saying "hey I don't really know about this matchup but it seem like it's imbalanced" which is a fair point to make but one shouldn't overvalue it just because it comes from a pro.
What makes you think that people in a SC2 forum dont play SC2? What makes you also think they dont know more than you even if neither you or them are "pro gosu"?
You are acting like you are the only person here playing Starcraft 2 and thus you know, and the rest of us, well we just come here for the "lulz"?
You sound like a Terran player and a bit affraid that more nerfs are incomming above and beyond the 1.2, which really translates your posts to "Dont nerf me bro".
Also what are you implying with "Cool "thinks" he knows" what are you talking about? He is perhaps the best SC2 player in the world today, and you just brush his opinion aside as he dosent know what he is talking about
Why listen to Cool, the winner of GSL when you can listen to a random TL poster from Germany!
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Who's to say he isn't just another rager that will become an ignored has-been like idra?
The guy's biased as hell you can't possibly trust a guy who claims he only wins 10% of the time vs terran and win the championship beating 5 terrans in a row.
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On October 09 2010 23:01 Raevin wrote:Show nested quote +No offense to both Idra and Cool but I think people should actually try to start figure things out for themselves and stop listening to some gosu pros. Basically what Cool is saying is that he "thinks" TvP is imbalanced but he doesn't give any reasons so there isn't really a substantial point in his statement. It's like saying "hey I don't really know about this matchup but it seem like it's imbalanced" which is a fair point to make but one shouldn't overvalue it just because it comes from a pro. What makes you think that people in a SC2 forum dont play SC2? What makes you also think they dont know more than you even if neither you or them are "pro gosu"? You are acting like you are the only person here playing Starcraft 2 and thus you know, and the rest of us, well we just come here for the "lulz"?
No, I don't think that. It was an reaction to "I don't know where you get your info from". Again, I hate to say it but you could at least try to read properly before making stupid understatements.
On October 09 2010 23:01 Raevin wrote:You sound like a Terran player and a bit affraid that more nerfs are incomming above and beyond the 1.2, which really translates your posts to "Dont nerf me bro".
I don't really care what you think I sound like because you don't seem to read my posts properly or even try to understand what I'm aiming at.
On October 09 2010 23:01 Raevin wrote:Also what are you implying with "Cool "thinks" he knows" what are you talking about? He is perhaps the best SC2 player in the world today, and you just brush his opinion aside as he dosent know what he is talking about
Why listen to Cool, the winner of GSL when you can listen to a random TL poster from Germany!
He is certainly one of the best players. But that doesn't make his statement substantial. Read it again. There is no argument or point made other than "I think TvP is imbalanced", no reasons given. So I ask you why should I believe it?
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On October 09 2010 21:24 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 21:13 Scoop wrote:On October 09 2010 21:03 Roggay wrote:
I'm wondering why everybody is assuming these changes are the final ones, obviously there is still plenty of time before blizzard release this patch and I'm pretty sure blizzard won't kill one of his unit like this (the reaper), they're too attached to it. And I'm pretty sure that they will reconsider depot > barracks because its pretty extreme at low level (low leagues) against 6pool. Well they didn't consider that when they made the zealot build time increase, why would they consider 6 pool now? And how does this change walling off? You make depot, rax, depot just like you would normally do if you weren't cheesing. Terran players seem pretty terrified of the idea that they might have to play like the other two races and actually survive in the early game. They have been spoiled. Pretty much this, IMO. I'm SO sorry it'll actually take effort to survive in the early game
Those posts are so ignorant it hurts my brain.
Can you actualy write your thought process to conclude this is a good change for the game ?
Most people like you are just welcoming this change only because it's a terran nerf, they don't care if the change is smart or dumb for the game, they just take this as a releiver of terran hate frustration.
There is actualy not a single valid argument for this change.
Would you think "overlord requirement for pool" as a smart thing ? It just reduce some options, destroy some bos that were never op or even a problem.
There are actualy QQs about just ANYTHING terran has. But I never seen a post about how imbalanced rax before supply was. This simple fact says something, as you can find posts about every single terran unit or building being op, but not about rax before supply. And now they change this and every hater is like "finaly ! Glad they make something !"...that's so dumb. Most of you coudln't even explain why you welcome this change other than with vague and generalised/irrelevant statements (like the post I quoted).
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On October 09 2010 21:13 Scoop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 21:03 Roggay wrote:
I'm wondering why everybody is assuming these changes are the final ones, obviously there is still plenty of time before blizzard release this patch and I'm pretty sure blizzard won't kill one of his unit like this (the reaper), they're too attached to it. And I'm pretty sure that they will reconsider depot > barracks because its pretty extreme at low level (low leagues) against 6pool. Well they didn't consider that when they made the zealot build time increase, why would they consider 6 pool now? And how does this change walling off? You make depot, rax, depot just like you would normally do if you weren't cheesing. Terran players seem pretty terrified of the idea that they might have to play like the other two races and actually survive in the early game. They have been spoiled.
You've never played T. Some maps like Steppes will be anightmare if they decide to 7 pool or such.
The supply before rax change is dumb. Change the maps into at least 3 player maps that are slightly bigger. Problem solved without a weird change like this.
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On October 09 2010 21:42 pikapika wrote:I was thinking about translating that, but it's just way too long. I'll leave that one to another translator
Can you just translate the bit about Madfrog then please?
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On October 10 2010 01:34 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 21:13 Scoop wrote:On October 09 2010 21:03 Roggay wrote:
I'm wondering why everybody is assuming these changes are the final ones, obviously there is still plenty of time before blizzard release this patch and I'm pretty sure blizzard won't kill one of his unit like this (the reaper), they're too attached to it. And I'm pretty sure that they will reconsider depot > barracks because its pretty extreme at low level (low leagues) against 6pool. Well they didn't consider that when they made the zealot build time increase, why would they consider 6 pool now? And how does this change walling off? You make depot, rax, depot just like you would normally do if you weren't cheesing. Terran players seem pretty terrified of the idea that they might have to play like the other two races and actually survive in the early game. They have been spoiled. You've never played T. Some maps like Steppes will be anightmare if they decide to 7 pool or such. The supply before rax change is dumb. Change the maps into at least 3 player maps that are slightly bigger. Problem solved without a weird change like this.
lol what
10 depot 12 rax beats a 6 pool on steppes easily if you micro your first marine with 4 scvs. how did you play steppes before? blindly 10 raxing to defend possible 6 pools?
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On October 10 2010 01:44 AssuredVacancy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2010 01:34 oxxo wrote:On October 09 2010 21:13 Scoop wrote:On October 09 2010 21:03 Roggay wrote:
I'm wondering why everybody is assuming these changes are the final ones, obviously there is still plenty of time before blizzard release this patch and I'm pretty sure blizzard won't kill one of his unit like this (the reaper), they're too attached to it. And I'm pretty sure that they will reconsider depot > barracks because its pretty extreme at low level (low leagues) against 6pool. Well they didn't consider that when they made the zealot build time increase, why would they consider 6 pool now? And how does this change walling off? You make depot, rax, depot just like you would normally do if you weren't cheesing. Terran players seem pretty terrified of the idea that they might have to play like the other two races and actually survive in the early game. They have been spoiled. You've never played T. Some maps like Steppes will be anightmare if they decide to 7 pool or such. The supply before rax change is dumb. Change the maps into at least 3 player maps that are slightly bigger. Problem solved without a weird change like this. lol what 10 depot 12 rax beats a 6 pool on steppes easily if you micro your first marine with 4 scvs. how did you play steppes before? blindly 10 raxing to defend possible 6 pools?
This.
Rax before depot was always a cheese - it was never required for anti-cheese. There's a reason 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas is the standard build. It wouldn't be standard if it couldn't defend against cheesy openings.
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EPT
