|
Not sure if it's been posted yet
Apparently my excessive usage of hyperbole has spawned an epic thread on team Liquid.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158486
Since I don't have an account there, I will make some comments here.
Darwin said “It's not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change.”
Unfortunately it appears I am most unresponsive to change, as I can't seem to adapt to these new conditions. Mainly, I tend to lose more (a lot more) than one game in a million which seems unacceptable to me.
This has caused a degree of frustration, which expressed hyperbolically has created quite a stir in StarCraft II land. Perhaps I should express my opinions less condescendingly and without flavor to avoid all misunderstanding in the future. Be aware though, that I am not as emotionally invested as some of my rage-filled drama posts might suggest.
My sincere opinion about StarCraft II is that it's a decent game, well worth playing, but does not compare favorably to its predecessor. In time, it might. However unlikely this may seem at present.
Henceforth my trolling will be more controlled and less impactful, although always with a kernel of truth. More subtle if you will, like this post
NTT
God I love that guy 
|
I didn't hate him until he used the word 'impactful'. No. Bad.
Tasteless gets a free pass because he is Tasteless.
But no.
Please do not.
|
On October 07 2010 11:36 -_- wrote: or removes some of the user interface simplifications (e.g., multiple building selection, unlimited unit groups, and automine). If they don't, I'll probably leave too. But I don't understand the game fully yet, and there is a chance that Blizzard might make some good changes, so I might as well wait it out and enjoy the rather fun game.
Now why would Bliz remove automine or multiple building selections? In my opinion, it makes the game easier and more accessible. Blizzard is making a game for a wide audience, they're not making a game for a niche ultra competitive pro scene. In fact, I think the simplified mechanics like that will bring professional games to a hire level than SC simply because once pro players reach the macro ceiling, games will become more micro and positional focused, which I think makes for a much more exciting game anyway. I'm not interested in the fact that joe schmo pro can remember to send every scv to mine with no delay, and I think it's just simply much better gameplay mechanics that you can rally workers to mine. I do think maybe unlimited unit groups could maybe be capped at 24, just because massing all of box + a isn't very satisfying for me, and winning games with more strategic unit placement of smaller groups is much more satisfying. But then again, you will never see a pro box + a. The unlimited unit group is for casual players. It makes the game much more fun for lower level players.
|
I have twisted his arm and made him reconsider !! Please read the update in te OP !
|
This is really a bummer for me personally. NTT is seriously the reason I got into competitive SCing. He's the reason I chose Terran on BW. I wanted to play just like him, I thought his gameplay was so unique, it was amazing how he beat top players with that extreme macro style.
Seriously NTT if you're reading this I hope you can reconsider and stay with SC2. I've already watched a few of your reps on SC2 and I'm STILL impressed. You brought that style to SC2 and still beat good players, you're the best to ever play Terran in my opinion.
|
Vatican City State2594 Posts
|
Updated the OP again.
Hopefully people will take notice of it.
|
SC2 removed MBS, added automine, added smartcasting, and has unlimited selection caps. By the same logic, it should have added an equal amount of gameplay depth to compensate for mechanical simplification.
It didn't.
As someone mentioned earlier, it added a number of new mechanics, though it's impossible to say if it compensates for the simplifications. But why would it be necessary to completely compensate for simplification?
I think we can agree that even 400 APM BW pros don't play BW perfectly. In other words, to play a perfectly executed game would require some amount of APM beyond human ability. This means it could be possible that simplifying the more mundane mechanical tasks allows the player to reach that perfectly executed game.
Now, you clearly worry that if you simplify the game too much, too many players will hit that "skill cap." But there is absolutely no evidence that this will occur. None of the current SC2 pros, despite being former BW pros and having very high APM, can execute SC2 play perfectly. So at the very least, we do know that the skill cap isn't so low that any scrub can play competitively. Is it high enough to accommodate the APM advantage of current BW pros? Notwithstanding your bold assertions, this is impossible to say unless and until top tier players switch.
In my opinion, I think the skill cap is extraordinarily high, because the most optimal play would be to control each individual unit to get in optimal position, prevent overkilling, take advantage of range, speed, etc. And to control each worker so that less time is wasted searching for an available mineral patch. I'm probably missing many other optimal tasks. Regardless, I don't think it's humanly possible to play at that level. (I.e. imagine how unoptimal Jaedong or Flash would play if they couldn't group units at all.)
|
Having known NTT for more than 12 years, I just want to reaffirm - I love you jakob.
|
On October 08 2010 16:33 KingHillBilly wrote:
Having known NTT for more than 12 years, I just want to reaffirm - I love you jakob.
Well look who climbed back from the dead..... Weren't you going to start competing in SCII again once retail hit or something  ?
|
On October 07 2010 18:08 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +SC2 removed MBS, added automine, added smartcasting, and has unlimited selection caps. By the same logic, it should have added an equal amount of gameplay depth to compensate for mechanical simplification.
It didn't. As someone mentioned earlier, it added a number of new mechanics, though it's impossible to say if it compensates for the simplifications. But why would it be necessary to completely compensate for simplification? I think we can agree that even 400 APM BW pros don't play BW perfectly. In other words, to play a perfectly executed game would require some amount of APM beyond human ability. This means it could be possible that simplifying the more mundane mechanical tasks allows the player to reach that perfectly executed game. Now, you clearly worry that if you simplify the game too much, too many players will hit that "skill cap." But there is absolutely no evidence that this will occur. None of the current SC2 pros, despite being former BW pros and having very high APM, can execute SC2 play perfectly. So at the very least, we do know that the skill cap isn't so low that any scrub can play competitively. Is it high enough to accommodate the APM advantage of current BW pros? Notwithstanding your bold assertions, this is impossible to say unless and until top tier players switch. In my opinion, I think the skill cap is extraordinarily high, because the most optimal play would be to control each individual unit to get in optimal position, prevent overkilling, take advantage of range, speed, etc. And to control each worker so that less time is wasted searching for an available mineral patch. I'm probably missing many other optimal tasks. Regardless, I don't think it's humanly possible to play at that level. (I.e. imagine how unoptimal Jaedong or Flash would play if they couldn't group units at all.)
I think the problem is that your assuming that skill converts to reward similarly for both games. Think about Reward /porpto ln{skill}. Assume that peak skill is where ln{skill} starts to get flat.
Most players in BW fall in the lower end of skill where if they discover small things like a basic build order they shoot up in skill over their friends. Then the average online player falls in that middle range where they get less return for the skill increase but still a decent amount. Then the top players are at that flat part at the top where they get less return for their skill increase because they are approaching optimal play.
In starcraft 2 everybody gets shifted to the right on this graph and those average online players get closer to the top pros than they would be in SCBW. This is because the average players get more out of getting shifted to the right than the top pros do.
|
NTT did a lot more whining posts on the forums of blizzard. He is the highest ranked player I had put on ignore because of making countless 'dumb' posts. I really hope he finds a way to be less tempered and just enjoy playing, because it will cost him his reputation.
|
before the ragings of idra and lalush, there were the ragings of people like NTT and Hovz.
|
Nice to see he is reconsidering. I don't really care that much but I liked him in bw so it's always nice to have memorable players playing SC2. Hope he gets over his frustration and will be able to adapt
|
On October 08 2010 16:44 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 16:33 KingHillBilly wrote:
Having known NTT for more than 12 years, I just want to reaffirm - I love you jakob. Well look who climbed back from the dead..... Weren't you going to start competing in SCII again once retail hit or something ?
Isn't he a blizzard QA tester? I don't think he can.
|
Show nested quote +Farewell dear noobs. Enjoy your mbs, your automing, your warp-in, your reactors, your void rays, your stim and your blink. I've had it with the gimmicks and the lack of fundamental RTS gameplay. What a waste of time this has been.
Drama queen out. Show nested quote +The game is just not demanding enough mechanically. It's just gimmicks upon gimmicks upon gimmicks. Maps are horrendous, balance is non existent, gameplay is straightjacketed, and monkeys can be trained to execute some of these build orders. Micro is easy, macro is easy and games are won or lost based purely on randomly chosen build orders. Time management is non existent because 60 apm means you can do everything with pro-gamer efficiency. From Brood War to this is like going from F1 to a go-kart.
I gave the game an honest chance, but it's trash, sorry to say. Gave a bunch of free wins in my last 10 or so games. Might do some more insta f10-n'ing should I feel generous. If anyone poor needs an account, you can have this one as soon as Blizzard allows the free name change.
Noobs won't understand my issues with the game because they're noobs, c'est la vie.
you want to figure out about starcrafts future after this lazy opinion?
cant you read right through it?
this who-ever noob this is, clearly got pwnd, could not compete on a high level and is crying..
every single complain he made, made me laugh, because its clownish and absurd
fact is: this one has no brain nor can he argue based on facts.
and fact, too: he doenst deserves any kind of attention here.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
and yea, makes no difference if this freak comes around with a clearification later.
all the things stated and argued in his first post were enough to define him as a narzist that crys for more attention.
|
|
|
Didn't he joined the Serious Gaming Team on the 2nd of September ? Which comes over to me as a very premature opinion, this game is now little over 2 months old ?
I think it too early in the life cycle of the game to call it "klote" if i may refer to a dutch word.
Either way i cannot understand some of the reactions here, simply because you never heard of him doesn't mean he is a bad player or attention seeker, he's always in the Blizzard list of top200 players.
I guess he earned a little more respect then what most people are posting here.
But i stand by my point it's too premature to tell something now when almost every BO / tactic is just a flavour of the month thing.
|
NTT pulled off a pretty good troll. I'm surprised it's gone on to this many pages.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
