EPTWhy is ZvZ hated? - Page 8
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
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kidd
United States2848 Posts
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notwelldone
92 Posts
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Tone_
United Kingdom554 Posts
On October 03 2010 21:09 skirmisheR wrote: Why does everybody hate ZvZ? Why is it considered the most stupid mirror matchup in rts history? (yes I've heard that one) Except for the ling/bling war in the start (which can be easily nullified by getting 5 roaches to block your ramp) I can't see the problem with Z mirrors because midgame/T2 can be really awesome. All units can be used, (even corruptors!), and the amount of different unit comps are endless. In ZvT for example there is ling/bling/roach/mutas/infestors while corruptors and hydras isn't used at all, but in ZvZ they all serve a purpose. So WHY is the Z mirror matchup so hated? EDIT: You're not showing the enemy your roach warren but the point of roaches is to make the other zerg commit to his zergling/banelings, morphing them and getting a lot of them and then he realizes I've blocked my ramp just in time, so then I'm at an advantage. And no it's not for rushing mutas but for advancing to the midgame where T2 units is needed. Why does this post exist? Why do some people like some things and some prefer others? Because that's human nature. Some people like some stuff, some like others. Often there are trends. What is the point in your post? | ||
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evanthebouncy
China491 Posts
It's really intense :D | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
but i guess the reason people hate it is because most people who play zerg are used to the macro defend and hide style of play that zerg has to do in zvt zvp. so when they play zvz which is incredably micro intensive, where one mistake costs you the game. they just hate it. also i guess since its the rarest matchup played so people haven't worked it all out yet thats another reason people hate it i guess? | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
I'm not sure what I said is completely justifiable right now though, since I think going just plain roaches with speed and overseer scout can handle all those builds pretty well, at which point you can deal with what they are actually getting in time due to the scout. | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
On October 04 2010 08:35 TyrantPotato wrote: IMO zvz is the best matchup. but i guess the reason people hate it is because most people who play zerg are used to the macro defend and hide style of play that zerg has to do in zvt zvp. so when they play zvz which is incredably micro intensive, where one mistake costs you the game. they just hate it. also i guess since its the rarest matchup played so people haven't worked it all out yet thats another reason people hate it i guess? Yep I think you're right, Zerg players are too used to macro play and ZvZ is decided by micro, as long as your scouting is sound (and don't commit to zling/bling vs roach) | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
Most of the ZvZs I play nowadays are actually pretty decent game. Still get the occasional moron who does a 6pool with spines though. It's like people don't want to play ZvZ so they do silly stuff like that. | ||
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terr13
United States298 Posts
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Tomfour
United States173 Posts
 It's so un-fun for me because in the early game a little micro mistake may lose you the game, and than mid/late game it seems so rock paper scissory with the unit compositions. It's definitely the most fun to watch because of how diverse it is, but I hate playing it. | ||
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Oldboysctv
Canada58 Posts
i find zvz comes down to who can micro better, one small mistake and one or 2 banelings get in there can make or break a game. I also find that the FE is quite easy to hold off the intial 6-8 lings with a couple lings and a spine crawler and queens. then going into roach. roach i think will become the more used due to its easier to not make a simple error that might cost you the game. | ||
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LilClinkin
Australia667 Posts
ZvZ is not about memorising BO's and timing pushes etc. You actually need to have a brain and use it. | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
Lings<Speedlings<Banelings<Roaches<Mutas<Base d +queen/Infestors <HydraRoach<HydraRoachBling<HydraRoachInfestor. its interesting seeing who can safely get to the later stages of the game the fastest and safest. Another aspect I like is how zergs can maintain the same base count and not have to worry about being economically behind, like in ZvP and ZvT, including BW. I honestly think that most zergs just don't know how to play zvz right. Its alot different than sc1. Having the most muta's doesn't always win ,which is what i see the main emphasis on.. And hydras hard counter mutas, unlike sc1. | ||
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
On October 04 2010 10:51 Tomfour wrote: ZvZ makes me honestly want to switch race sometimes It's so un-fun for me because in the early game a little micro mistake may lose you the game, and than mid/late game it seems so rock paper scissory with the unit compositions. It's definitely the most fun to watch because of how diverse it is, but I hate playing it. Don't get sad. PvP is even worse. Only the Terrans get a good mirror. Go figure. | ||
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
On October 04 2010 08:30 Tone_ wrote: Why does this post exist? Why do some people like some things and some prefer others? Because that's human nature. Some people like some stuff, some like others. Often there are trends. What is the point in your post? Because he wants to know peoples opinions on why this matchup is less enjoyable for them than others? Why does your post exist? | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On October 04 2010 08:34 evanthebouncy wrote: I mean I have used pure speedling no bane before. It can be doable. The idea is that the bane move much slower than his speedling, so you will end up with more speedlings than him. You will have to move back and flank his speedlings while sending few lings to poke his slower banes. It's really intense :D You have to maintain constant aggression until you transition into something else if you do this. Oddly, this build can't defend against lingbling, but it can attack them. If they are on the offensive, and are making a move towards your mineral line, you really can't do much to stop them. But if you can stay on the aggressive you can make crazy fast transitions into mutas with an expo up. | ||
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
On October 03 2010 21:28 MorroW wrote: if i got this right ppl massling baneling because whoever make roaches will get expansion up later. as soon as someone make roach it usually turns into macro game i think the mu is really well designed to be honest, well it would be if we had lan latency. its a good thing sometimes when a matchup is not too complicated with 10 different bos or unit mixtures, then its more skill and less luck. tvt theres a pretty big luck factor that u cant escape from with any build and thats why im starting to like zvz more Less luck in ZvZ then TvT ? If one goes 6 pool, and other goes 13 pool its gg. If one go 10 pool to counter 6 pool, its gg, but if the other guy went 13 pool its gg for the 10 pooler. This is obviously how its on 4 player maps, on two player maps its much less luck depandant cus you will have easy time to scout when your oppoent is pooling. What you want to do is put down your pool 20/30 sec later then your opponent usually. That way you cannot die to zerglings, and you will be ahead on drones. | ||
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Minzy
Australia387 Posts
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