• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:30
CET 20:30
KST 04:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier6Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League93
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? SC2 Power Rank: epic29 Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
SCHNAIL now supports Remastered BW General Discussion Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign Bot on ladder Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs BA 2026-10-30
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Deus Ex 3!? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7984 users

Why is 4gate so popular? - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Hectic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia159 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-28 14:05:25
September 28 2010 14:02 GMT
#221
150 minerals a few minutes into the game for an extra gateway - which allows for 'macro mistakes' , and which will be fully untilised later is not that expensive.

what is it like ...4 seconds of mining time?

Only if you beleive.
Ledjo
Profile Joined August 2010
France4 Posts
September 28 2010 14:06 GMT
#222
I think it's 'cause it's really easy to learn and have a hudge efficiency. For me it's a bit like the terran's 1-1-1.
Effective and versatil
[img]http://sc2sig.com/s/eu/189786-1.png?1281960133[/img]
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-28 14:09:27
September 28 2010 14:08 GMT
#223
4gate is just a basic 1-base solid macro game. It all lines up very easily. Warp in 4 units (HAY DATS 8 SUPPLY), start a new pylon, which will be done just in time for the next set (until you've started losing units), tell your units to kill shit. You get a crapton of units and get to make a brutally powerful timing attack. the 4th gateway basically covers the seconds between warpgate cd being up and you pressing W and spamming more units - 3 warpgate you'd probably build up bits of money here and there, and once you stop building pylons, you'd definitely start being unable to spend all your money.

Even if you DON'T kill your opponent with a 4gate, it's somewhat easy to expand after/during your attack- you just put a huge pile of pressure on your opponent to build shit! Might end up with a couple extra sentries instead of zealots while you expand though.
Scrimpton
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom465 Posts
September 28 2010 14:57 GMT
#224
On September 28 2010 22:51 Mizzles wrote:
I'm not going to comment on whether or not the mathematics is wrong, but the premises used to calculate it are definitely wrong.

As far as I can tell, full saturation (24 probes on Minerals + 6 on 2 gas) was assumed. During a 4 gate push, no one is planning on expanding afterwards, it is an all-in attack, you want to end it right there, but the original post uses constant probe production and constant supply production (and a 2:2:1 zealot:stalker:sentinel mix) in its calculations. Cutting probes instantly drops the calculation result to 121% minerals and 139% gas.

Under these circumstances 3 gate would use 91% and 104%, underutilising the incoming resources, which is bad for an all-in attack.

If you assume that some of your units attacking will die (a good assumption, otherwise you have already won), then you don't need to continue producing pylons (or can produce them more slowly). Without producing additional pylons a 4:2:1 ratio of zealots, stalkers and sentries uses 99% minerals and 101% gas.

Once your units are dying roughly as fast as you are producing them, 4 gates is perfect, with a slight mineral excess and slight gas deficit (1% each way). That is why three gates are not used, units die and it is all-in so you cut all probe production, as you aren't planning an expansion or other follow up.

Your original assumptions were off, so your conclusions were off.

That is a nice tool you linked though, thanks for that.


This was discussed earlier on in the thread, probably about 5 times it's come up, been talked about, acknowledged and laid to rest.

The discussion is over ;D

Please, Stop Posting
Protoss is the only race with "pro" in it
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
September 28 2010 15:14 GMT
#225
On September 28 2010 07:42 Eleaven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2010 07:34 randplaty wrote:
Try using the calculator again. Unclick pylon production. Make 7 zealots and 3 sentry ratio out of your 4 gates. You'll get 107% minerals and 108% gas. This is as close you'll get to optimal.


looks like OP did come across this earlier in the thread. I have to wonder though, how often do you see pure Zealot Sentry play? - Especially after the cooldown nerf. It's almost always some stalker plays.

The discussion has been done now though, as well as a nice amount of flames. probably should leave it at this lol.. 90% people not reading the OP, and just answering the title and 10% arguing whether or not a 4gate is all in.

Yeah, but you'll build a handful of stalkers + zealots + a couple sentries in your initial attack. What's most likely to die? Probably the zealots, as they EXIST to be sacks of hit points! Stalkers are the easiest to keep alive, since they have some of the fastest early-game move speed, and they have range. Unless you are getting nailed hard by zerglings surrounding your stalkers (forcefield!) or something else that makes stalkers cry (marauders tanking your zealots to get shots off on stalkers? IDK!) it's almost always going to be the zealots that you need to replace. Sentries get picked off pretty easily too, probably gonna replace one or two of them. Sure, you can't constantly spam stalkers out of your gates, but you can have a small handful and keep them alive pretty easily.

And wtf is this talk about 4-gate being all-in? Not all 4gates are 10pylon10gate->CC at 15 -> chronoboost warpgate all 5 times while building pylons in the enemy base. Many maps even have a good spot in your OWN BASE for a forward pylon (metalopolis, for example) to hasten reinforcements if you can't put one in the middle of the map somewhere (which you almost always can.)
kojinshugi
Profile Joined August 2010
Estonia2559 Posts
September 28 2010 15:21 GMT
#226
On September 28 2010 23:57 Scrimpton wrote:
Please, Stop Posting


Stop making stupid threads and then arguing with people?
whatsgrackalackin420
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AI Arena Tournament
02:00
RO8 - Day 2
Laughngamez YouTube
IPSL
01:00
Ro24 Group A
eOnzErG vs McRibbed
LancerX vs StRyKeR
Liquipedia
Epic.LAN
22:00
Epic.LAN 49 Playoffs Stage
epiclan85
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 99
MindelVK 9
Codebar 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 472
White-Ra 128
Dewaltoss 93
Mind 93
910 14
soO 14
Dota 2
Gorgc15131
monkeys_forever393
LuMiX0
League of Legends
JimRising 621
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1753
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu34
Other Games
Grubby2675
Beastyqt799
FrodaN434
KnowMe263
ArmadaUGS104
JuggernautJason60
Trikslyr48
Chillindude21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick571
ComeBackTV 309
StarCraft 2
angryscii 33
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 61
• printf 61
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix12
• 80smullet 9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2939
League of Legends
• Nemesis3311
• Jankos2996
• Scarra425
Other Games
• imaqtpie491
• Shiphtur215
• tFFMrPink 10
Upcoming Events
OSC
18h 30m
Yamato Cup
19h 30m
IPSL
21h 30m
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
1d 3h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 16h
Ultimate Battle
1d 16h
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
2 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
IPSL
6 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-30
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.