EPTTHREAD OVER - DISCUSSION COMPLETE - NO NEED TO GO OVER THE SAME INFO EVERY 2 PAGES
Why is 4gate so popular?
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
THREAD OVER - DISCUSSION COMPLETE - NO NEED TO GO OVER THE SAME INFO EVERY 2 PAGES | ||
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Yurie
12180 Posts
edit With proxy pylons going up later you might want to wait a bit to warp in. Saving the resources for a better warp in location. Thus having an use of another gate. | ||
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Channel56k
United States413 Posts
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
It punishes players that are of a lower tier or someone incredibly unprepared, and a huge influx of units that early can put zergs in panic mode (not sure about pvt) and before the patch, korean 4 gate put protosses in panic mode too (don't know if it's still done), while protoss just micros and hits WSSSZ over and over. Seriously when i was just starting as zerg, it was such an obnoxious strategy. Now that people know how to defend and how to abuse it, it's so much worse at a higher level. | ||
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
On September 27 2010 23:28 Yurie wrote: Isn't it because you can have 4 gates by the time warp tech hits and they don't really build prior to that? More gates also means you can warp in large groups of units to the opponent high ground on maps that allows this. Surely you could still do this with 3gates, which, whilst still not being able to afford, you'd be a bit better off? I suppose the not building much before the 4gates, allowing a mineral pile up might be a reason, but again that comes down to incredibly poor macro, and the usefulness of that 4th gate would be gone very quickly I'd have thought? - I've never seen a 4gate kill anybody off within 2 production cycles, and off the top of my head, that's as long as the prior "bad macro" would allow support of 4gate. I'm very happy to be proven wrong on all my points though | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
With BBcode for more lols. | ||
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oBlade
United States6648 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
I actually thought a fully saturated base could actually support 4 warp gates. It just can't support anything else. Then again I don't play protoss. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
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KirbyToss
Canada21 Posts
 I am very intressted in where you got your statistics from because I have 4gated nearly every game I have ever played and have found that is extreamly macro freindly. I have never not been able to produce units, I tend to make 2-3 units before I even get my warp gates up, I expand and pop out 4 stalkers as soon as my warp tech is finished, I never supply block myself, I always have enough gas for stentry's or stalkers as well as a robo/obs if I go stalker/zealot for one cooldown. I tend to tech for blink or charge lots right after expanding or adding 2 more gateways. What people have a hard time with is macro and micro, I have good macro and micro, thats why I use this build a lot and tweak it in different situations because I am very bad at strategys and timing builds but have good micro and apm to us this build extreamly effectivley. | ||
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
On September 27 2010 23:34 oBlade wrote: Don't forget that the percentages of mineral/gas consumption you mention depend on the kind of army composition you're going for. The only combination I can find that isn't absolutely terrible on overspending is pure Zealotu Sentry on 2:1 Ratio, usually the 4gates I see almost always include Stalkers on top of this, and it just isn't supportable in any unit mix.. (2:1 Zealot Sentry is 109/117% consumption without producing probes) I can understand 4gate being used sub platinum level, where macro might be very hard for some players, but i'd really have thought the "experienced 4gaters" would have switched to 3gate and better macro, if anything it would allow you to start aggression earlier? | ||
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Special Endrey
Germany1929 Posts
On September 27 2010 23:33 Butigroove wrote:
With BBcode for more lols. this. it can be learned kinda fast and as soon as you're able to do the BO more or less good you can purely concentrate on micro | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On September 27 2010 23:33 Butigroove wrote:
With BBcode for more lols. This in a nutshell. You don't need to utilize two separate building structures and it relies on one key (and cheap) upgrade. The only things you need to remember to do are:
I'm sure profit lies somewhere in there, but I haven't really found it yet... | ||
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stk01001
United States786 Posts
If your arguing that you can apply just as much pressure with 3 gates as 4 I gotta say I totally disagree with you.. I mean I'm pretty sure all of the top players would have realized this by now and 3 gate would be the standard IF what you are saying is true.. | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
In any case 4gate isn't supposed to be economic, it's supposed to be an all-in (sort of) push. The idea is to get as many units out in a short period of time, and you can do that better with 4 gates than with 3, even if you don't use them fully. Also, can we ban the little whiners who didn't get the thread? Or maybe move them to a subforum dedicated to whining. | ||
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
On September 27 2010 23:38 KirbyToss wrote: Hello. I am very intressted in where you got your statistics from because I have 4gated nearly every game I have ever played and have found that is extreamly macro freindly. I have never not been able to produce units, I tend to make 2-3 units before I even get my warp gates up, I expand and pop out 4 stalkers as soon as my warp tech is finished, I never supply block myself, I always have enough gas for stentry's or stalkers as well as a robo/obs if I go stalker/zealot for one cooldown. I tend to tech for blink or charge lots right after expanding or adding 2 more gateways. What people have a hard time with is macro and micro, I have good macro and micro, thats why I use this build a lot and tweak it in different situations because I am very bad strategeys and timming builds but have good micro and apm to us this build extreamly effectivley. Watch your replays, Mathematically it's impossible to have anything close to "perfect macro" (100% uptime of production buildings) with a 4gate, The closest you can get, as mentioned in my last post is a Zealot sentry build that will give you roughly 90% uptime. Compare this to a 3rax, which will support constant 1:1 production of marauder marine and SCV production (with 75% of your gas left over for upgrade purposes, and preparing for a tech transition) | ||
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Santi
Colombia466 Posts
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RxN
United States255 Posts
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Scrimpton
United Kingdom465 Posts
On September 27 2010 23:39 stk01001 wrote: I don't play toss much, but every time I've ever done 4 gate I know for a fact that all 4 of the gateways are being used almost constantly. I'm not sure where your getting your numbers from, but even if in theory you can't optimally utilize 4 gates off 1 base (still not sure thats even true?) no one is going to have perfect macro. Minerals pile up, chrono boost piles up, and I can guarantee you having that 4th gateway has meant the difference between busting someone's front down and not in countless games.. I mean I've seen Huk and other toss players even go 5 gates off one base... If your arguing that you can apply just as much pressure with 3 gates as 4 I gotta say I totally disagree with you.. I mean I'm pretty sure all of the top players would have realized this by now and 3 gate would be the standard IF what you are saying is true.. People keep questioning where I got my statistics from. - EVEN THOUGH I provided a direct link and acknowledgement to the creator of the website where I got my data from, (on top of in game testing) In my OP. Strange world. | ||
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Westy
England808 Posts
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