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On September 24 2010 16:59 z00t wrote:
2) Zerg are not less polished than other races. It's clear that the Zerg have a very specific playstyle - being relatively passive most of the time, parrying enemy harass, then outmacroing the enemy and winning through sheer brute force rather than a multitude of options. Some people may not find this playstyle fun, and it may be too difficult to achieve reliably with the game's current balance, but I don't think that's necessarily an indicator that Zerg lack polish. The balance simply didn't work out the way Blizzard planned.
I think you're wrong here...
When people got to preview SC2 on multiple occassions the main concerns were always with Zerg...there was lots of mention of unfinished/missing units/not unveiled yet.
Zerg was after all the last race to be unveiled and it's unveiling was underwhelming to say the least...and it is clear if you look back at the trailers and press releases that Zerg was definately the last race to recieve anything in the way of "tender loving care".
Burrowing queens from hatch to hatch - Gone
Corruption on enemy units to immobolise - Gone
Lurkers - Compleyely and utterly gone
Mass building corruption by Infestors - Not even worth attempting
Being able to feel swarmy and amass armies - gone and replaced by "lol only in ones dreams"
The Queens use to play a bigger role according to those that got to play preview builds...and it has slowly become the early AA and larvae maker only...sad sad sad...
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On September 24 2010 18:01 Moosik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 16:59 z00t wrote:
I think a lot of people here are severely underestimating Blizzard.
1) Blizzard isn't ok with Zerg being weak just so they can be the flavour-of-the-week in Heart of the Swarm. I just find the notion that Blizzard would purposely keep Zerg down is preposterous.
Blizzard would be no. But dont forget Blizzard isn't Blizzard anymore its Activision, which is the most financially motivated gaming company around at the moment. I have no doubt in my mind that Activision would leave Zerg broken only to add units and fix game mechanics in HotS hoping to draw more sales. This is the same company that said they would basically leave things out of yearly serialized games so they could add them next year and sell more copies. I really wonder if Blizzard has though about how much this will damage SC2 as an e-sport when 90% of the tournament games will be TvT, Tank/Viking is like watching paint dry... its painful.
Think of it.
Think about what you said.
Activision, if they controlled the company and Blizzard was no more(This isn't the case, but whatever), is not stupid.
No, they're not. You'd be surprised. You can't become the biggest gaming company by purposely losing customers.
Now tell me. Which is more profitable? Making 25% of the population happy with balance so they will buy the next expo?
Or making 50% of that 25% leave, and not be willing to buy the next expansion?
By sitting around going "Lawls, we're going to leave these people feeling betrayed and stupid weak!" they would only make people quit. Not only Zerg players either, but spectators who hate watching TvT in finals every game.
No, it would be smarter than them financially to atleast address some of the issues.
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On September 24 2010 18:05 Affluenza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 16:59 z00t wrote:
2) Zerg are not less polished than other races. It's clear that the Zerg have a very specific playstyle - being relatively passive most of the time, parrying enemy harass, then outmacroing the enemy and winning through sheer brute force rather than a multitude of options. Some people may not find this playstyle fun, and it may be too difficult to achieve reliably with the game's current balance, but I don't think that's necessarily an indicator that Zerg lack polish. The balance simply didn't work out the way Blizzard planned. I think you're wrong here... When people got to preview SC2 on multiple occassions the main concerns were always with Zerg...there was lots of mention of unfinished/missing units/not unveiled yet. Zerg was after all the last race to be unveiled and it's unveiling was underwhelming to say the least...and it is clear if you look back at the trailers and press releases that Zerg was definately the last race to recieve anything in the way of "tender loving care". Burrowing queens from hatch to hatch - Gone Corruption on enemy units to immobolise - Gone Lurkers - Compleyely and utterly gone Mass building corruption by Infestors - Not even worth attempting Being able to feel swarmy and amass armies - gone and replaced by "lol only in ones dreams" The Queens use to play a bigger role according to those that got to play preview builds...and it has slowly become the early AA and larvae maker only...sad sad sad...
Don't forget that Queens are Ultralisk-nurses, too!
One thing to note, though, is the unit preview page during the beta;
Terran was pretty much done, Protoss had most of it's units and looked pretty neat.
Zerg had... *drumroll*: Banelings and Mutalisks.
Apparently, the only unit that could have interesting concepts for the Zerg should be the Banelings and the Mutalisks.
Wait, what?
Why do you think Mutabane is pretty good? 
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Cool is going my way. I quit zerg and now I go terran. It's obvious, that zerg is the weakest race. Zerg is a doll in the hands of P and T and have to do what that races left him to do...
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On September 24 2010 18:01 Moosik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 16:59 z00t wrote:
I think a lot of people here are severely underestimating Blizzard.
1) Blizzard isn't ok with Zerg being weak just so they can be the flavour-of-the-week in Heart of the Swarm. I just find the notion that Blizzard would purposely keep Zerg down is preposterous.
Blizzard would be no. But dont forget Blizzard isn't Blizzard anymore its Activision, which is the most financially motivated gaming company around at the moment. I have no doubt in my mind that Activision would leave Zerg broken only to add units and fix game mechanics in HotS hoping to draw more sales. This is the same company that said they would basically leave things out of yearly serialized games so they could add them next year and sell more copies. I really wonder if Blizzard has though about how much this will damage SC2 as an e-sport when 90% of the tournament games will be TvT, Tank/Viking is like watching paint dry... its painful.
If Activision already would be in control, we would see temporary downloadable units to enhance our army.
"You decided to use the Lurker in your next game, please pay 2$ and you will have full access to this unit for the entire day!"
I really think that blizzard cares, but they are currently undecided on how to handle the situation. They probably wanted to take it slow, but might learn that some small number changes will not fix what currently seems broken.
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On September 24 2010 18:09 GIGAR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 18:05 Affluenza wrote:On September 24 2010 16:59 z00t wrote:
2) Zerg are not less polished than other races. It's clear that the Zerg have a very specific playstyle - being relatively passive most of the time, parrying enemy harass, then outmacroing the enemy and winning through sheer brute force rather than a multitude of options. Some people may not find this playstyle fun, and it may be too difficult to achieve reliably with the game's current balance, but I don't think that's necessarily an indicator that Zerg lack polish. The balance simply didn't work out the way Blizzard planned. I think you're wrong here... When people got to preview SC2 on multiple occassions the main concerns were always with Zerg...there was lots of mention of unfinished/missing units/not unveiled yet. Zerg was after all the last race to be unveiled and it's unveiling was underwhelming to say the least...and it is clear if you look back at the trailers and press releases that Zerg was definately the last race to recieve anything in the way of "tender loving care". Burrowing queens from hatch to hatch - Gone Corruption on enemy units to immobolise - Gone Lurkers - Compleyely and utterly gone Mass building corruption by Infestors - Not even worth attempting Being able to feel swarmy and amass armies - gone and replaced by "lol only in ones dreams" The Queens use to play a bigger role according to those that got to play preview builds...and it has slowly become the early AA and larvae maker only...sad sad sad... Don't forget that Queens are Ultralisk-nurses, too! One thing to note, though, is the unit preview page during the beta; Terran was pretty much done, Protoss had most of it's units and looked pretty neat. Zerg had... *drumroll*: Banelings and Mutalisks. Apparently, the only unit that could have interesting concepts for the Zerg should be the Banelings and the Mutalisks. Wait, what? Why do you think Mutabane is pretty good?
Haha...yeah.
Of all the changes the one that gets me the most though is the nerf to Queen.
I was most looking forward to trying the hatch to hatch burrowing...
From people who played the early builds...that was definately the stand out thing that they reported back from what I remember.
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i wonder whether blizzard thinks that there is such a huge gap between the races or if they thing everything is just fine and if they care about equal race distribution. i think its imporatant for sc to have that because it makes watching games so much more diverse.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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To all the Zergs out there losing hope, I urge you to cast your minds back to the SC1 era before Boxer. At that time, the Terrans were considered weak and the Protoss were especially dominant. With the onset of the Emperor and other Bonjwas (Nada, iloveoov) look at where the Terrans are now!
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Cool would be a scary ass Terran. This is such bad news.
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On September 24 2010 18:23 Azzur wrote:
To all the Zergs out there losing hope, I urge you to cast your minds back to the SC1 era before Boxer. At that time, the Terrans were considered weak and the Protoss were especially dominant. With the onset of the Emperor and other Bonjwas (Nada, iloveoov) look at where the Terrans are now!
That was a short era where people did not utilize some terran units, like the dropship for example. I think the balance with Zerg in SC2 is not so much in people not using units to their full potential, but with the race itself lacking.
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On September 24 2010 16:10 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
This is so sad to see. Even top tier Zerg players are struggling and started to rage about imbalances. It's so hard to fend off air without investing too much into hydras and mutas and get over run elsewhere. Hydras really need to go back to tier 1.5 and deal a little less damage and cost a little less. It's so stupid to see a tier 2 unit with 80 HP. Right now, the hydralisk is so underused because it's slow and easily hard countered. So what's Zerg's only plausible "AA"? More mutas.
How you can make Zerg have no AA (don't give me the queen crap), until mutas/corruptors? There's just something wrong with this formula.
I totally agree.... It feels so unnatural... I think, the zerg will need more drastical change than to add +2 damage to one unit thing to becamo evenly strong and funny to play as other races.
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On September 24 2010 18:28 lukash wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 16:10 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
This is so sad to see. Even top tier Zerg players are struggling and started to rage about imbalances. It's so hard to fend off air without investing too much into hydras and mutas and get over run elsewhere. Hydras really need to go back to tier 1.5 and deal a little less damage and cost a little less. It's so stupid to see a tier 2 unit with 80 HP. Right now, the hydralisk is so underused because it's slow and easily hard countered. So what's Zerg's only plausible "AA"? More mutas.
How you can make Zerg have no AA (don't give me the queen crap), until mutas/corruptors? There's just something wrong with this formula. I totally agree.... It feels so unnatural... I think, the zerg will need more drastical change than to add +2 damage to one unit thing to becamo evenly strong and funny to play as other races.
Actually, +2 to lings would be hilariously good.
Mmm, 9 dmg an attack +3 lings.
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I wouldn't blame him tbh... Its so tempting to switch a lot of the time but I have faith in blizzard. Hopefully next patch actually fixes issues zerg are having ^^.
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On September 24 2010 18:35 blade55555 wrote:
I wouldn't blame him tbh... Its so tempting to switch a lot of the time but I have faith in blizzard. Hopefully next patch actually fixes issues zerg are having ^^.
According to Blizzard Zergs are dominating the GSL/ All of Korea.
Edit: fixed quote.
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On September 24 2010 18:23 Azzur wrote:
To all the Zergs out there losing hope, I urge you to cast your minds back to the SC1 era before Boxer. At that time, the Terrans were considered weak and the Protoss were especially dominant. With the onset of the Emperor and other Bonjwas (Nada, iloveoov) look at where the Terrans are now!
Unfortunately that was a completely different time. With SC2 now all the lessons learned from Brood War are transferring over right off the bat (more or less anyway). It's hard to believe some huge zerg revolution could happen right now.
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Funny stuff in this article. Don't know how credible the information in this is, but it seems to clarify a few things:
-FruitSeller's comments were directed mostly towards Terran
-FruitSeller's original post came after a frustrating practice session with his practice partner MakaPrime (10% win ratio)
-Implies that the game has come to a playable point since patch 1.1
In a humorous note the article states
-FruitSeller's been losing hair and weight because of the stress from playing Zerg
-CheckPrime has lost a lot of weight playing Zerg and shows the value of the Zerg Player Diet
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On September 24 2010 16:59 z00t wrote:
I think a lot of people here are severely underestimating Blizzard.
1) Blizzard isn't ok with Zerg being weak just so they can be the flavour-of-the-week in Heart of the Swarm. I just find the notion that Blizzard would purposely keep Zerg down is preposterous.
2) Zerg are not less polished than other races. It's clear that the Zerg have a very specific playstyle - being relatively passive most of the time, parrying enemy harass, then outmacroing the enemy and winning through sheer brute force rather than a multitude of options. Some people may not find this playstyle fun, and it may be too difficult to achieve reliably with the game's current balance, but I don't think that's necessarily an indicator that Zerg lack polish. The balance simply didn't work out the way Blizzard planned.
3) Blizzard IS listening to what people are saying, even if they don't actively make announcements saying that they are. You guys shouldn't need a post from Bashiok to know this. As others have pointed out, Blizzard is just in an unenviable position - they're all too aware of how time can affect the development of the metagame, and so they're torn between waiting and seeing if players come up with something; or hastily implementing a balance patch and potentially creating new problems.
For all we know, maybe a balance patch buffing Zerg would indeed fix everything, but I think that it's unfair for people to think that Blizzard is being unreasonable for not implementing one right away.
good point, well written! As Idra for instance states - reaper were a problem, but still over time also hellions and mech-allins became a bigger thread in the last week - I think instead of hazzle changes all over the place they should give it time to let 1.1 kick off.
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Hey, cool is proving me at least partialy right, live right now.
(about drops I mean  )
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I hope Blizz buffs Zerg early and Cool stays Zerg.
just watched stream, and you should too! Awesome games thus far!
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EPT
