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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:37 st3roids wrote: also blizzard had 12 years of balance patches with bw messing up this much means that many key developers left the company. they had maybe 3 years of balance patches. The last balance patch was 2001 | ||
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smegged
Australia213 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:25 Half wrote: That has zero to do with why zerg is underpowered. Honestly, I'm assuming your a mid level player, if you play Terran at that level they will be just as hard. They have very rigid production capabilities which needs to be constantly macro-managed and expanded while multitasking, otherwise you fall severely behind and cannot keep up with toss and zergs army, even if you have the moneys. Well blizzard has made it clear that the reason that zerg are weaker early game is so that the other races can pressure their expansion. The reason for this is so that zerg do not get too far ahead too early in the macro race. If zerg macro play was nerfed, i.e. it was not as fast to drone, early game units could be buffed to the level where they could handle the drops much easier. This is pure speculation by me, but it is consistent with the reasons Blizzard have given as to why zerg is weaker in the early game (the reason they gave for the zealot nerf for example, was not to remove early game pressure, but lessen it). | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:46 MythicalMage wrote: Yet the general consensus in Korea is that Protoss is the strongest race, according to Tasteless and Artosis. Blame Tester. Re: Lurker vs baneling - the reason why baneling is failing at defense vs lurkers is because every baneling attack loses you that baneling - so every 2 baneling lost equals a drone. Lurkers in the right position can ward off more than one attack while allowing you to drone up. Someone else earlier hit it on the head where lurkers in SC2 may be one of those things that are just too powerful if brought in directly, because of the ability to power drone harder using spawn larvae. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:46 MythicalMage wrote: Yet the general consensus in Korea is that Protoss is the strongest race, according to Tasteless and Artosis. And Terran STILL has 90%+ winrate against Protoss. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:46 MythicalMage wrote: Yet the general consensus in Korea is that Protoss is the strongest race, according to Tasteless and Artosis. No, what they were saying is that Zergs think ZvP is harder than ZvT, not that Protoss were strongest race. I don't know why people keep bringing this up when it's actually false (and there's never a source either). There was this one page where people voted on which race is strongest in Korea, every week and Terran has been on the top every week since like mid-beta. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:53 Integra wrote: And Terran STILL has 90%+ winrate against Protoss. Further IdrA says the same (That Terran vs protoss is a piece of shit MU) here: http://www.myeg.net/article/article_detail.php?article_id=877 Dunno. Most of the Protoss I've seen in the GSL played terribly, if that's any consolation. That's just what I've been told by the most reliable sources I have in Korea. EDIT: Maybe I misheard? Dunno. Seems kinda weird, balance wise. Protoss and Terran seem really insanely close, from all the games I've seen. Winrate only matters if the players don't suck. And IdrA hates Terran. He could play with the uberorach, and still say Terran is imba. XDD. | ||
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DTrain
Australia64 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:09 MrGrieves- wrote: Lmao. These CSI redos are usually pretty lame, but the delivery was impeccable here. Is he putting on a second pair of glasses over his first pair? | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:54 MythicalMage wrote: Dunno. Most of the Protoss I've seen in the GSL played terribly, if that's any consolation. That's just what I've been told by the most reliable sources I have in Korea. Ya that must be the answer, the Protoss and Zerg players just suck. That's why they keep losing, all the good players just happened to pick Terran. | ||
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TitleRug
United States651 Posts
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Affluenza
United Kingdom214 Posts
Scourge would directly counter drops... Lurkers would immediately make Protoss and Terran ball makers think twice about making single balls! | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:57 Integra wrote: Ya that must be the answer, the Protoss and Zerg players just suck. That's why they keep losing, all the good players just happened to pick Terran. Didn't say Zerg sucked. The Zergs played really well in the GSL. Just the last couple of Protoss matches have been kind of awful. | ||
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chumpchous
68 Posts
The fact is, whether you're a terran losing to a zerg, or a zerg beating a terran, due to the matchmaking system, you are not two players of equal skill grudging it out. You can make no observations about balance by comparing TvZ on the ladder. That's why balance discussions on bnet are so painful to read. "WTF TERRAN ARENT OP I LOSE TO MUTAS ALL THE TIME." | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:58 TitleRug wrote: I like how this thread got like 1000+ posts in 9 hours. It shows how much this community cares about the balance of this game. I think its a good sign that this game will be followed for years to come. Or raged about for a few months before fading into obscurity. On September 24 2010 10:59 Affluenza wrote: I think Zerg just need Scourge and Lurkers back... Scourge would directly counter drops... Lurkers would immediately make Protoss and Terran ball makers think twice about making single balls! Scourge seem reasonable. Lurkers, without something like a Tier three queen, would likely be unbalanceable. | ||
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Affluenza
United Kingdom214 Posts
Scourge Lurkers http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOmegalisk#p/a/u/1/2kWrxi1pxzI Please explain to me how Lurkers overlap with Banelings and Roaches? I don't see any overlap... | ||
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SlowBlink
United States102 Posts
Or raged about for a few months before fading into obscurity. That's really blizzard's call to make, and so far the outlook is bleak. They either deal with the obvious problems with a patch (fix zergs early game one way or another), or continue "feeling it out" (despite countless testimonies from top-level players saying that its been felt out, groped, and practically molested, and there's an obvious problem.) | ||
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smegged
Australia213 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:43 Bull-Demon wrote: I think what people want when they say lurker isn't the splash damage, but rather the burrow aspect. The ability to attack from cloak. I think its a pretty big key that zerg is missing. Also please don't mention burrow roaches, that is NOT the same thing. Not even close really. You are almost right. The thing that zerg players really would like is a unit that forces their opponent to respond to it. The lurker was a unit that you could not ignore. You *had* to deal with it somehow (science vessels, siege tanks, observers). The closest thing that exists for zerg in SC2 is the muta, and "dealing with it" corresponds to building a few turrets/cannons near your mineral lines. Right now both terran and protoss can effectively "play blind" against zerg and completely control the flow of the game until the zerg hits tier 3. There is no "oh crap he has unit x" factor when playing as T or P against Z. Protoss and Terran can used well balanced armies in the early game to apply incredible pressure to a zerg player who is forced into predefined paths just to survive the push. If the T or P player loses the push, they regroup and can generally play the macro game. If the Z player loses the push they generally lose the game. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 24 2010 11:05 SlowBlink wrote: That's really blizzard's call to make, and so far the outlook is bleak. They either deal with the obvious problems with a patch (fix zergs early game one way or another), or continue "feeling it out" (despite countless testimonies from top-level players saying that its been felt out, groped, and practically molested, and there's an obvious problem.) Or someone, heaven forbid, sticks with zerg and finds out something amazing. Seems unlikely though. | ||
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cykalu
Australia30 Posts
On September 24 2010 11:07 MythicalMage wrote: Well, for reasons mentioned earlier, lurkers don't really work in the game. As for overlap, Blizzards general thoughts were that giving the zerg two units with splash wouldn't work. Yet Terran has a few. Such biased.. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
Terran has explosive things. Their mentality is that in lore, it makes sense. Plush the Thor's splash is pretty avoidable. | ||
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