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Perkins1752
Germany214 Posts
On September 24 2010 04:55 dahornnn wrote: they should split the GSL2 into 2 tourneys, one for terrams and one for everyone else =[ They already did this: The Terran league is called Ro8, the others play qualification for GSL2 | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
blizz just went overboard on some units (medivac. free dropships?), took out many of the power dynamics between the races (in bw in evry matchup the power and aggressor switched all the time.) and made all the counters super easy to use. in addition to that we have terrible maps and gameplay that promotes 1-2 base allin plays. i believe if sc2 will get fixed at all it wont happen before hots. blizz seems to take ages for evrything right now(2 months and 1.1 for a few bugfixes,small tweaks and a clock?bnet as shitty as day1 after 6 months ?) and wants to take babysteps. when the game has some core design flaws. that said i currently still enjoy playing Z so mcuh that i atm almost dont random anymore.i enjoy that i get to use my bw apm, i enjoy the long games (since you ususally cant really attack before hive) over winning with 4gates or 3rax pushes in 8 minutes and its fun to destory predictable 1400 4gate heroes with pure ling  (and im one of those 4gate heroes when i random P ~) | ||
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
http://www.level.com.tr/index.php/haber/haber/6452-starcraft-ii-wolye-11-yamas Translation: Blizzard considered the players' whinings and cryings seriously and -i don't know why this looks familiar, oh yeah, it's because of wow- prepared a patch that is unlikely to bring balance in my opinion. Zerg, as if they are not capable of attacking in 3rd minute with 6 pool and spreading all over the map like plague, is said to be imprisoned in main for too long time and therefore protoss and terran is nerfed. Terran looks like has taken the most serious wound whereas banelings, which we all are fed up with, have not even been touched at all (t/n: lol, banelings? wtf are you talking about?) Let's pass to the patch notes after emphasizing that it's likely that we need to learn to play zerg because of the patch that will come out on 21st of September (t/n: it's 22nd, not 21st, and bio T is as op as ever. Like the fact that you're not improved 1 bit of skill and mech did not change that much so stfu). General changes and patch changes don't have any notes from writer. Protoss: No notes about zealot&warp gate nerf. C. The most focused problem was the fact(!) that protoss runs out of minerals too quickly with warpgates and chronoboosts (they are yet to do any changes about them but looks like seriously thinking about nerfing them). Terran: No notes about reaper&bunker nerf. C. YAY #1! Siege tank damage is nerfed from 50 to 35 +15 vs armored. D. YAY #2! Tank damage upgrade is nerfed from +5 to +3 +2 vs armored. E. Battlecruiser ATG damage is reduced from 10 to 8 -as if they are so easy to be built- (t/n: lol, this person thinks that he's using bw battlecruisers :D) No writer notes for Zerg changelogs. | ||
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FREEloss_ca
Canada603 Posts
 For Terran drop abuse, we need either scourges to be implemented and balanced, or increased range on spore crawlers. As far as early game options go....I dunno. Zerglings just don't appear to cut it like they did in BW. Balancing the roach doesn't seem possible; any change they make either makes it OP or UP... The Zerg army is mainly composed of Zerglings, Banelings and roaches, with a gas-heavy unit of your choice (either Muta, Hydra or Infestor)...WTF DO WE DO!?!?!?!? Ultras are kind of a joke...They're incredibly expensive and suck if they don't have a substantial amount of upgrades. T3 in general just isn't viable unless you have at least three bases... | ||
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nodq
Germany123 Posts
On September 24 2010 04:49 skipdog172 wrote: I'm surprised that nobody here could possibly suggest that Zergs just haven't come up with the right strategies yet. It seems like some of you forget some of the BW imbalances that existed for a long time and were only fixed by players coming up with new build orders months in the future. Blizzard didn't patch anything...it took pro teams months for somebody to finally come up with something that worked. I know you all want to think that all of these top SC2 pros are pure strategic geniuses who CLEARLY would find the strat/response that worked if it existed, but really these guys are mechanics pros. They aren't creative super geniuses who come up with all the builds themselves. Even now there are constantly new builds from all races developing all the time. From one tournament to the next, the so-called "standard" openings are constantly changing for all races. To those claiming Blizzard doesn't care and bla bla, you must not have been around for all of the SC1/BW imbalances. They clearly want their game to be as balanced as possible. Might zerg needs some more love? It sure is possible. I just can't take one guy's word for it at this early stage in the game. Look at all the Threads with Topic, Imbalanced Maps. I mean wtf... Blizzard has so much experience actually and still doe so stupid mistakes in map design? Thats unbelievable. I dont think that SC2 Zerg needs some months to get the real BOs etc. back then when SC1 was released NO ONE had a clue, NONE had experience in games like sc1 was! Now after s much yeras and other Games in this Genre. People have MUCH more exp. therefor good BOs should pop up much much earlier compared to SC1 in the past. And like i said in SC2 Beta. Zerg feels not finished, not done, not ready for a release, compared to Protoss and especially Terran. And its still the same feeling at the moment. | ||
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
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tubs
764 Posts
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partysnatcher
156 Posts
On September 24 2010 05:04 tubs wrote: Man if Cool switches from Zerg to Terran I'll only have Sen left to watch in order to learn how to properly play Zerg. I'd be one sad panda for sure. Cool was probably the best Zerg player I've ever seen. Check is better imo. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On September 24 2010 04:56 partysnatcher wrote: People have been saying that for months, but most of those who have said this, have been ignorant people who really don't know how the 1v1 game works. This isn't about "strategies" or the strength of individual units, but about a lack of initiative and scouting. No amount of theory or creativity will let you get an overlord past their marines, or a zergling past their wall. This means ZvT, Zerg enters the midgame at an economic disadvantage (mule), tech disadvantage (had to spend $ on beating potential harass to avoid dying instantly), and information disadvantage (no scouting). When you enter the midgame at that severe a disadvantage, and you have no options to deal damage to the opponent, you spend the entire game playing catchup. That's really how ZvT and ZvP both play - you spend the entire game trying to recover from your inherent disadvantages. Add to the fact that zerg has a lot of HUGE holes that can be exploited (cloaked ghosts sniping queens, marauder drops on tech buildings, vikings hunting overlords, etc), Zerg really spends the entire midgame trying not to die to 20 different things as well. | ||
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Toxiferous
United States388 Posts
On September 24 2010 04:23 SilverPotato wrote: I just don't see why Zerg's complain about drops if they fail to do them themselves. Kind of like when people who didn't vote get angry about who's in office... Zerg harass drops can't even come close to comparing to terran, especially ZvT Planetary/photons instantly shuts down small harass drops, and the units themselves still will fail to pay for themselves unlike 2 blueflame helions instantly paying off in 1 volley, or stim marauders sniping tech/queens/hatch even, or even stim marines on a mineral line | ||
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
as you can see from here: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/index?search=fruitseller | ||
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Macavity
United States83 Posts
It is common for players to say they dislike mirror match-ups the most (and common for people to not want to watch them). Yet, mirror match-ups have perfect balance. Despite this, Zerg mirror match-ups are the most boring to watch (and most boring to play). So we must conclude that to make an entertaining E-sport, both to watch and to play, the entertaining element is beyond the issue of just 'balance'. I played Zerg throughout the beta and got frustrated. Switched to Terran since then. After the patch, I have switched to random. What I'm noticing more and more is that Zerg simply isn't fun to play. I mean, Zerg is very fun when you have 6 bases and can pump out instant armies. But Zerg early game (which constitutes 90% of a Zerg's playtime) is not fun at all. Early Zerg game is just 'make drones' and survive harassment. I think the Zerg race was more designed to be 'different' than the other races instead of being designed to be 'fun'. Whenever I play Zerg, I constantly feel 'weak'. But this has more to do with the playstyle the race demands than the balance. Anyway, Zerg players need to chill out over the patch. Balance changes are going to take many small steps. Many early game units were changed with the 1.1 patch (such as the zealot, the core Protoss unit). In order to balance the mid-game, Blizzard must witness the effects of these early game changes. | ||
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crimsonsentinel
United States179 Posts
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Koukalaka
United Kingdom80 Posts
On September 24 2010 05:08 Phanekim wrote: i think there is a definite imbalance and this can be clearly seen. as a result, i think this exacerbates its effect because no good players are really sticking with zerg. as a result, zerg look like they suck. but i think a partial part of it is that ppl playing zerg just aren't very good. Cool, IdrA and Check are considered among the top 10 best players in the world... Imagine what they could do with Terran, and what current Terran's could do with Zerg. I think we'd see a dramatic shift. | ||
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Mearis
Italy76 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Knutzi
Norway664 Posts
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grax
United States41 Posts
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The Touch
United Kingdom667 Posts
On September 24 2010 03:12 Mascherano wrote: Medivac rant + Show Spoiler + I hate this unit. Why does it exist and who came up with the idea of giving terran a drop ship that heals bio units with a magical green beam? There are medics in the campaign ffs. It would make terrans choose between loading only dps units in the drop ship or adding a medic or two with the drop. One way of looking at it is that Blizz didn't want terrans to just be able to mass M&M&M from a barracks. Instead, if we want to gain access to the healing, we have to tech to tier 3. Perhaps the medivac shouldn't double as a dropship, however, and the dropship itself should be added in as a separate unit - maybe using the hercules model and retaining the insta-unload as an upgrade, but only carrying the same 8 passengers that the medivac carries now. | ||
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billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On September 24 2010 02:52 billyX333 wrote: yay, finally we can stop hearing newbies saying "look at korean ladder, zerg is fine l2p" or "check/cool arent whining, l2p" even while idra would continuously tell us the current sentiment in korea on zerg weakness no, zerg isnt fine and yes they've already learned to play i was wrong. never underestimate the power of an idiot On September 24 2010 05:10 Mearis wrote: Maybe this 'cool' guy should take a page from the korean zergs, zerg dominates the ladder in korea. + Show Spoiler + i hope this guy is meta-trolling me | ||
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