Fruitseller (Cool) may change his race in GSL #2 - Page 27

On September 24 2010 02:28 LuciferSC wrote:



You are being ignorant and foolish.
Times are changing,and many progamers in Korea are and have been making incomes way above average for a long time now.

On September 24 2010 02:15 Xith wrote:
The horrible balance starts to surface as players reach a softcap of skill. I guess I won't buy a GSL season 2 ticket if all we see is TvT.

On September 24 2010 05:24 bakedace wrote:
I dont blame him. Hes right. Idra and cool are the some ofthe best players of any race and they are willing to come out and say it.. either zerg is UP or terran is OP.

On September 24 2010 05:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Nobody still has a clue about learning curves of the races. It's hard enough to find balance in RTS but to control the learning curves of 3 different games (races) this complicated to be similar is pretty much impossible. How hard is basic control for tank/marauder, now compare it to how hard it is to control the correct counter ling/infestor. Clearly Zerg needs more time to reach its max than Terran does.

That and every Zerg out there still doesn't creep properly. You see top level Zergs not getting multiple tumors at all times in the game, not getting overlord speed. Why complain about unit strength when you aren't getting the number one upgrade for your units (creep) in the whole game. This is just puzzling.

There may or may not be balance issues, but let's start with these things. It's like Terrans forgetting concussive shells and siege mode every game they play. Creep spread is simply a lot harder to pull off than just pressing an upgrade button, but that brings us back to not knowing the learning curves of each race, which is not the same as imbalance.

On September 24 2010 05:24 superbabosheki wrote:

Maybe for a few years, what the hell are they going to do after?

On September 24 2010 05:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
There may or may not be balance issues, but let's start with these things. It's like Terrans forgetting concussive shells and siege mode every game they play. Creep spread is simply a lot harder to pull off than just pressing an upgrade button, but that brings us back to not knowing the learning curves of each race, which is not the same as imbalance.

On September 24 2010 05:22 Fa1nT wrote:

I laughed, hard.

On September 24 2010 05:07 fdsdfg wrote:


No amount of theory or creativity will let you get an overlord past their marines, or a zergling past their wall.

This means ZvT, Zerg enters the midgame at an economic disadvantage (mule), tech disadvantage (had to spend $ on beating potential harass to avoid dying instantly), and information disadvantage (no scouting).

When you enter the midgame at that severe a disadvantage, and you have no options to deal damage to the opponent, you spend the entire game playing catchup. That's really how ZvT and ZvP both play - you spend the entire game trying to recover from your inherent disadvantages. Add to the fact that zerg has a lot of HUGE holes that can be exploited (cloaked ghosts sniping queens, marauder drops on tech buildings, vikings hunting overlords, etc), Zerg really spends the entire midgame trying not to die to 20 different things as well.

On September 24 2010 05:28 Mearis wrote:
Nazgul, look at it this way - a zerg player at a certain point on a learning curve should compare favorably to a terran player at a similar point of the learning curve.

If you take a really good zerg like Idra or Sen, they would crush a mid-diamond terran player, but that's hardly meaningful - Idra or Sen are much better players and have a lot investement in the game in terms of man-hours. Unless you assume there is a plateau beyond which skill cannot improve you any further, if zerg require more 'learning' to hit a particular level of effectiveness, zerg will always be inferior, unless at a particularly high level of skill that nobody has even approached, zerg become very easy to improve with.

Second - most zerg players play really really well, and have their core mechanics down. A 1200+ zerg player is by no means a pro, but if you watch his replays, he usually has solid APM, good micro, a good sense of timing/strategic flexibility. I don't really think most high end zergs are terrible at all. I think if you look at a similarly rated terran, you are often astonished at just how completely awful they are - I beat a 1100 rated terran about ~3 weeks ago who forgot to wall off against me, and I simply sent wave after wave of speedlings into his base.