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[VOTE] SC2 Player quality limits in order to post - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 34 Next All
TheAngelofDeath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2033 Posts
September 20 2010 20:57 GMT
#181
I like the idea, and would be up for it without hesitation.
"Infestors are the suck" - LzGamer
Zandar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1541 Posts
September 20 2010 20:57 GMT
#182
I agree that ladder ranking only might not be the best indication of being able to have a high level strategic discussion.

Maybe make it so that intitially only the top players can post but if the TL staff spots someone who makes high quality posts very often they can give that player access as well.
Some players just don't have the APM (anymore?) to get high ranking diamond but can still have a good strategic mind and bring decent contribution to discussions.
Or both, a proplayer forum and a forum for people who have proven to post good contributions. Would be fun to see which of the 2 creates most strategic gems over time

Another possibility is a voting system, where people can +/- replies in any TL thread, giving people points for positive contributions, and those with high points are allowed in the toplevel discussions.

I would not be able to write in any of those forums but I would really like it if they existed. As long as I'm able to read it I don't find it elitism.
If you read something there and you really want to discuss it, you can always make new thread with a link to that thread.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
September 20 2010 20:58 GMT
#183
top 200 from each server sounds fine. i doubt it'll happen though, given the amount of work required to verify everyone, and remove/add people everytime the top200 list changes.
AtlasJQ
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada138 Posts
September 20 2010 20:58 GMT
#184
So long as I am able to read this forum I think it would be great to hear from the truly top end players on strategy/general issues.
An old schooler from Katans Lair and Mavens Haven - | - Fav SC accomplishment: Beating SSamjang in the first i2e2. Yes, that SSamjang. I am old :(
thesauceishot
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada333 Posts
September 20 2010 20:58 GMT
#185
Definitely for something like this. 90% of the responses in a thread asking for advice are terrible. I know they are written with the best intentions, but it annoys me when I see someone say get a sentry to FF to counter a 6 pool in PvZ. Stuff like that.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
September 20 2010 21:00 GMT
#186
On September 21 2010 05:35 Archerofaiur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2010 05:32 tacrats wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:30 Archerofaiur wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:28 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:23 Archerofaiur wrote:
I think this thread pretty clearly points out that the real problem is that many in this community dont know how to respect each other. And no a seperate forum will not fix that.

I think the problem is that most people don't act in a way that deserves respect.


Isnt that kinda the same thing?


no

people give respect to those that deserve it is not the same as people not respecting anyone at all.

I strongly dissagree with the idea that someones other credentials can some how allow them to be disrespectful towards others (if that indeed is your position). I think that is a very misguided approach that personifies this whole dilema (I know more than this guy therefore hes an idiot and my posting style should reflect this).

The first thing that happens is someone makes a post. That post can be made in a way that deserves respect or doesn't deserve respect. It doesn't matter whether or not the guy who is going to read the post and respond to it knows how to respect people. That has no influence on whether or not the post is deserving of respect or not.

So I'm saying that there's a problem with people making posts undeserving of respect. So someone who doesn't go around respecting every idiot that comes along, that is, someone who respects respect, will wisely disrespect the post undeserving of respect. So there's a post that doesn't deserve respect and now there's a reply that disrespects that post. The guy who made the reply could be perfectly capable of making respectful posts but the problem is that he's responding to someone who doesn't deserve respect. So, disrespect.

You suggest that the replier is the problem. These people who read posts and reply disrespectfully are the problem. And you hypothesize that it's because they don't know how to be respectful.

I suggest that the original post is the problem. These people who make shitty posts and provoke negative responses are the problem. And I don't hypothesize about why they do it because I don't give a shit.

Disrespect is a tool for fighting bad content. A forum full of disrespect is indicative of a forum full of people unhappy with the content. The disrespect isn't a bad thing itself, though it can certainly be unpleasant. Forcing everyone to respect each other can remove the unpleasantness but it's not going to fix the real problem. I could put this in medical language with symptom/cause/diagnosis/treating the symptoms vs treating the cause etc but I'm sure you can do that yourself! =]
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Abdiel
Profile Joined September 2010
52 Posts
September 20 2010 21:01 GMT
#187
I think it would greatly improve the quality of any starcraft 2 forum really to find some way to filter out all of the sub-diamond X point players.

But for the moment, I can do that on my own by simply ignoring the the players that don't know what they're talking about. I come here to read what people like Morrow, Idra, LaLush, TLOBrian, TLOJinro, Artosis, and all of the other more experienced/skillful players have to say. I can easily filter out trash other people spew. It's not hard to seperate the cream from the crop, or however that saying goes..

The change would be greatly helpful, but by no means necessary imo.
ascoe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Korea (South)133 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 21:04:33
September 20 2010 21:03 GMT
#188
I dont think this would be a great move for teamliquid - part of the reason the site is so successful is that your average player can interact with the better players here.

A good alternative would be a "Rate this post" feature that would let you view, say, a 15 page thread with top rated replies, or all the replies depending how you'd like to browse. (completely ignoring ladder ranking)
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
September 20 2010 21:05 GMT
#189
I don't think points are the best way to go about it but a heavily moderated strategy forum section would be a good idea. Perhaps make the topic creator approve each message before it gets shown and new topics would have to be approved by the section moderator.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
Essentia
Profile Joined July 2010
1150 Posts
September 20 2010 21:06 GMT
#190
Or pros could just occasionally write articles on the state of the game and or different matchups, and then the public could discuss.

Or TL could have a forum where it's basically invite only, where everyone that's invited is a well known player.

Capteone
Profile Joined March 2010
United States197 Posts
September 20 2010 21:08 GMT
#191
I think its a good start, or at least some more details about players in-thread that indicate their main race & ladder rank would be really useful as well
Devious-Gaming - www.Devious-Gaming.co.cc
Seam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1093 Posts
September 20 2010 21:09 GMT
#192
Instead of a "You must be this tall to ride" forum, why not one subforum for Strat/balance discussion that is heavily, heavily modded. In that one anyone who posts something non-constructive or flat out wrong will get punished.

The end would be almost the same as this, but you wouldn't kick out people who may just be unlucky in getting promoted, but know the game. You would still get more quality posts this way.
I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok. - Liquid`Tyler
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 21:21:40
September 20 2010 21:11 GMT
#193
On September 21 2010 06:00 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2010 05:35 Archerofaiur wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:32 tacrats wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:30 Archerofaiur wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:28 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:23 Archerofaiur wrote:
I think this thread pretty clearly points out that the real problem is that many in this community dont know how to respect each other. And no a seperate forum will not fix that.

I think the problem is that most people don't act in a way that deserves respect.


Isnt that kinda the same thing?


no

people give respect to those that deserve it is not the same as people not respecting anyone at all.

I strongly dissagree with the idea that someones other credentials can some how allow them to be disrespectful towards others (if that indeed is your position). I think that is a very misguided approach that personifies this whole dilema (I know more than this guy therefore hes an idiot and my posting style should reflect this).

The first thing that happens is someone makes a post. That post can be made in a way that deserves respect or doesn't deserve respect. It doesn't matter whether or not the guy who is going to read the post and respond to it knows how to respect people. That has no influence on whether or not the post is deserving of respect or not.

So I'm saying that there's a problem with people making posts undeserving of respect. So someone who doesn't go around respecting every idiot that comes along, that is, someone who respects respect, will wisely disrespect the post undeserving of respect. So there's a post that doesn't deserve respect and now there's a reply that disrespects that post. The guy who made the reply could be perfectly capable of making respectful posts but the problem is that he's responding to someone who doesn't deserve respect. So, disrespect.

You suggest that the replier is the problem. These people who read posts and reply disrespectfully are the problem. And you hypothesize that it's because they don't know how to be respectful.


I think both people are at fault, the original poster whose post didnt deserve respect and the repliers whose post further deteriorated the threads quality by being disrespectful. It is entirely possible to refute someones arguement without being disrespectful.

In short you should never lets someone else drag your posting down with them. And I say that as someone whose made that mistake too many times before :p.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
September 20 2010 21:11 GMT
#194
On September 21 2010 05:50 ShadowWolf wrote:
My point is more that you can compare their section, which is posting-rights restricted to the TL.net SC2 Strategy section, which is not posting-rights restricted, and my opinion is that TL's is superior. The point of going to ArenaJunkies was more to illustrate that having a limitation in posting capacity doesn't automatically improve the quality of posts.

Yeah but your evidence doesn't conclusively support your argument. It certainly might point in that direction but it's just too weak by itself. The question we have to focus on is whether or not TL.net can produce more quality discussion by allowing the best players to have discussions with themselves. It's about improvement. There are so many other variables influencing whether or not strategy discussion is good and so much uncertainty about how good things can be potentially. And these things make productive comparisons between AJ/EJ/TL very difficult.

Suppose we agree that, all things considered, TL.net has better discussion than those forums. That would be a start. But "all things considered" doesn't really matter. What we want to consider is just this one thing -- a restricted posting section. AJ and EJ could be even worse without their posting requirements. Or perhaps they could be better without their posting requirements and TL.net could have a different nature.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
September 20 2010 21:13 GMT
#195
On September 21 2010 05:46 Koukalaka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2010 05:42 vrok wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:21 Mantikor wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:07 vrok wrote:
On September 21 2010 04:01 Mantikor wrote:
edit:

case and point
On September 21 2010 04:05 vrok wrote:
1200 points? No way. At least over 9000.


The irony of this would be that I'm actually higher ranked than you even though I have like 400 unused bonus points as I'm waiting for the patch to ladder. :D


Actually, the irony of this is that i'm pointing out how within minutes of making any post, garbage replies flood in. No where in there did i mention anything about you being higher ranked than me, and really i dgaf. But thanks for playing.

Garbage threads get garbage replies. Your idea is ridiculous and unfeasible from a purely practical and technical point of view. You should really have put more thought into how it could possibly work before making a thread. Elitist Jerks >>> Arena Junkies. Good and harsh moderators make the difference, not arbitrary requirements for posting.

Elitist Jerks is an awful website. Only wannabes visit that website: I was in Ensidia and I didn't visit the website once.

That's funny because I was in Overrated and was possibly the first mage on the planet to use RIs for raiding, and I never posted on EJ either. Still, I had to fight through a ton of idiocy to post on the B.net forums and that's the problem we're facing now. I say this completely independently from being a banling, but we're not assuming that lower level players have no insights to contribute. The problem is that when I would post on B.net (I am a forum whore, after all), I had to deal with a huge amount of idiots telling me I was wrong, when they didn't know what they were talking about, and in that case volume wins out over quality.

Moderation helps with that, but the quantity we're talking about is pretty enormous. There is a lot of bad advice in the Strategy Forums at the moment, and while I think repeat offenders should be removed, we can't just wipe out 80% of the posters there.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
TekKpriest
Profile Joined March 2010
308 Posts
September 20 2010 21:15 GMT
#196
So I cheese my way up to 1200 (which isnt hard btw) and can still post crap ;o

it has to be 1400-1500+ to have a difference compared to what we have now.
A Man chooses, a slave obeys
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
September 20 2010 21:15 GMT
#197
On September 21 2010 06:09 Seam wrote:
Instead of a "You must be this tall to ride" forum, why not one subforum for Strat/balance discussion that is heavily, heavily modded. In that one anyone who posts something non-constructive or flat out wrong will get punished.

The end would be almost the same as this, but you wouldn't kick out people who may just be unlucky in getting promoted, but know the game. You would still get more quality posts this way.

I agree with this.
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
gospelwut
Profile Joined April 2010
United States52 Posts
September 20 2010 21:15 GMT
#198
Mods could just make "pro gamers" a different colored name. There aren't that many that fulfill such a tag, as in professional gamer. Below that, what's the point of distinguishing based simply on battle.net points? It's pretty unscientific to simply go "Diamond XXXX-points".
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
September 20 2010 21:22 GMT
#199
On September 21 2010 06:15 TekKpriest wrote:
So I cheese my way up to 1200 (which isnt hard btw) and can still post crap ;o

it has to be 1400-1500+ to have a difference compared to what we have now.


That limits the discussion to like, 250 players per realm. Sorry but no. 1200 is actually a pretty good metric at the moment. There's probably a couple thousand capable players overall.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Koukalaka
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom80 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 21:23:55
September 20 2010 21:22 GMT
#200
On September 21 2010 06:13 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2010 05:46 Koukalaka wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:42 vrok wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:21 Mantikor wrote:
On September 21 2010 05:07 vrok wrote:
On September 21 2010 04:01 Mantikor wrote:
edit:

case and point
On September 21 2010 04:05 vrok wrote:
1200 points? No way. At least over 9000.


The irony of this would be that I'm actually higher ranked than you even though I have like 400 unused bonus points as I'm waiting for the patch to ladder. :D


Actually, the irony of this is that i'm pointing out how within minutes of making any post, garbage replies flood in. No where in there did i mention anything about you being higher ranked than me, and really i dgaf. But thanks for playing.

Garbage threads get garbage replies. Your idea is ridiculous and unfeasible from a purely practical and technical point of view. You should really have put more thought into how it could possibly work before making a thread. Elitist Jerks >>> Arena Junkies. Good and harsh moderators make the difference, not arbitrary requirements for posting.

Elitist Jerks is an awful website. Only wannabes visit that website: I was in Ensidia and I didn't visit the website once.

That's funny because I was in Overrated and was possibly the first mage on the planet to use RIs for raiding, and I never posted on EJ either. Still, I had to fight through a ton of idiocy to post on the B.net forums and that's the problem we're facing now. I say this completely independently from being a banling, but we're not assuming that lower level players have no insights to contribute. The problem is that when I would post on B.net (I am a forum whore, after all), I had to deal with a huge amount of idiots telling me I was wrong, when they didn't know what they were talking about, and in that case volume wins out over quality.

Moderation helps with that, but the quantity we're talking about is pretty enormous. There is a lot of bad advice in the Strategy Forums at the moment, and while I think repeat offenders should be removed, we can't just wipe out 80% of the posters there.

I got banned from the WoW forums because I said that Shaman were imbalanced during Sunwell (I played Resto Shaman) and called anyone who disagreed with me a moron. Seems I got banned despite being right. Besides, most of what Elitist Jerks discuss has no possible place in PvE. Which is why I dislike it. I played Shaman how I thought they ought to be played, and I'd say I did fucking well in WoW for where I was in terms of "overall ranking". (Best PvE Shaman in the world <3)

But getting back to the issue here - you cannot fix it. Short of banning anyone who is an idiot, or makes various idiotic comments you cannot "initiate any sort of rule list" because it wont be read, people will pass around accounts and it will be awful.
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