EPT[VOTE] SC2 Player quality limits in order to post - Page 10
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
Maybe make it so that intitially only the top players can post but if the TL staff spots someone who makes high quality posts very often they can give that player access as well. Some players just don't have the APM (anymore?) to get high ranking diamond but can still have a good strategic mind and bring decent contribution to discussions. Or both, a proplayer forum and a forum for people who have proven to post good contributions. Would be fun to see which of the 2 creates most strategic gems over time  Another possibility is a voting system, where people can +/- replies in any TL thread, giving people points for positive contributions, and those with high points are allowed in the toplevel discussions. I would not be able to write in any of those forums but I would really like it if they existed. As long as I'm able to read it I don't find it elitism. If you read something there and you really want to discuss it, you can always make new thread with a link to that thread. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
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AtlasJQ
Canada138 Posts
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thesauceishot
Canada333 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On September 21 2010 05:35 Archerofaiur wrote: I strongly dissagree with the idea that someones other credentials can some how allow them to be disrespectful towards others (if that indeed is your position). I think that is a very misguided approach that personifies this whole dilema (I know more than this guy therefore hes an idiot and my posting style should reflect this). The first thing that happens is someone makes a post. That post can be made in a way that deserves respect or doesn't deserve respect. It doesn't matter whether or not the guy who is going to read the post and respond to it knows how to respect people. That has no influence on whether or not the post is deserving of respect or not. So I'm saying that there's a problem with people making posts undeserving of respect. So someone who doesn't go around respecting every idiot that comes along, that is, someone who respects respect, will wisely disrespect the post undeserving of respect. So there's a post that doesn't deserve respect and now there's a reply that disrespects that post. The guy who made the reply could be perfectly capable of making respectful posts but the problem is that he's responding to someone who doesn't deserve respect. So, disrespect. You suggest that the replier is the problem. These people who read posts and reply disrespectfully are the problem. And you hypothesize that it's because they don't know how to be respectful. I suggest that the original post is the problem. These people who make shitty posts and provoke negative responses are the problem. And I don't hypothesize about why they do it because I don't give a shit. Disrespect is a tool for fighting bad content. A forum full of disrespect is indicative of a forum full of people unhappy with the content. The disrespect isn't a bad thing itself, though it can certainly be unpleasant. Forcing everyone to respect each other can remove the unpleasantness but it's not going to fix the real problem. I could put this in medical language with symptom/cause/diagnosis/treating the symptoms vs treating the cause etc but I'm sure you can do that yourself! =] | ||
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Abdiel
52 Posts
But for the moment, I can do that on my own by simply ignoring the the players that don't know what they're talking about. I come here to read what people like Morrow, Idra, LaLush, TLOBrian, TLOJinro, Artosis, and all of the other more experienced/skillful players have to say. I can easily filter out trash other people spew. It's not hard to seperate the cream from the crop, or however that saying goes.. The change would be greatly helpful, but by no means necessary imo. | ||
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ascoe
Korea (South)133 Posts
A good alternative would be a "Rate this post" feature that would let you view, say, a 15 page thread with top rated replies, or all the replies depending how you'd like to browse. (completely ignoring ladder ranking) | ||
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
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Essentia
1150 Posts
Or TL could have a forum where it's basically invite only, where everyone that's invited is a well known player. | ||
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Capteone
United States197 Posts
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
The end would be almost the same as this, but you wouldn't kick out people who may just be unlucky in getting promoted, but know the game. You would still get more quality posts this way. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On September 21 2010 06:00 Liquid`Tyler wrote: The first thing that happens is someone makes a post. That post can be made in a way that deserves respect or doesn't deserve respect. It doesn't matter whether or not the guy who is going to read the post and respond to it knows how to respect people. That has no influence on whether or not the post is deserving of respect or not. So I'm saying that there's a problem with people making posts undeserving of respect. So someone who doesn't go around respecting every idiot that comes along, that is, someone who respects respect, will wisely disrespect the post undeserving of respect. So there's a post that doesn't deserve respect and now there's a reply that disrespects that post. The guy who made the reply could be perfectly capable of making respectful posts but the problem is that he's responding to someone who doesn't deserve respect. So, disrespect. You suggest that the replier is the problem. These people who read posts and reply disrespectfully are the problem. And you hypothesize that it's because they don't know how to be respectful. I think both people are at fault, the original poster whose post didnt deserve respect and the repliers whose post further deteriorated the threads quality by being disrespectful. It is entirely possible to refute someones arguement without being disrespectful. In short you should never lets someone else drag your posting down with them. And I say that as someone whose made that mistake too many times before :p. | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
On September 21 2010 05:50 ShadowWolf wrote: My point is more that you can compare their section, which is posting-rights restricted to the TL.net SC2 Strategy section, which is not posting-rights restricted, and my opinion is that TL's is superior. The point of going to ArenaJunkies was more to illustrate that having a limitation in posting capacity doesn't automatically improve the quality of posts. Yeah but your evidence doesn't conclusively support your argument. It certainly might point in that direction but it's just too weak by itself. The question we have to focus on is whether or not TL.net can produce more quality discussion by allowing the best players to have discussions with themselves. It's about improvement. There are so many other variables influencing whether or not strategy discussion is good and so much uncertainty about how good things can be potentially. And these things make productive comparisons between AJ/EJ/TL very difficult. Suppose we agree that, all things considered, TL.net has better discussion than those forums. That would be a start. But "all things considered" doesn't really matter. What we want to consider is just this one thing -- a restricted posting section. AJ and EJ could be even worse without their posting requirements. Or perhaps they could be better without their posting requirements and TL.net could have a different nature. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 21 2010 05:46 Koukalaka wrote: Elitist Jerks is an awful website. Only wannabes visit that website: I was in Ensidia and I didn't visit the website once. That's funny because I was in Overrated and was possibly the first mage on the planet to use RIs for raiding, and I never posted on EJ either. Still, I had to fight through a ton of idiocy to post on the B.net forums and that's the problem we're facing now. I say this completely independently from being a banling, but we're not assuming that lower level players have no insights to contribute. The problem is that when I would post on B.net (I am a forum whore, after all), I had to deal with a huge amount of idiots telling me I was wrong, when they didn't know what they were talking about, and in that case volume wins out over quality. Moderation helps with that, but the quantity we're talking about is pretty enormous. There is a lot of bad advice in the Strategy Forums at the moment, and while I think repeat offenders should be removed, we can't just wipe out 80% of the posters there. | ||
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TekKpriest
308 Posts
it has to be 1400-1500+ to have a difference compared to what we have now. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On September 21 2010 06:09 Seam wrote: Instead of a "You must be this tall to ride" forum, why not one subforum for Strat/balance discussion that is heavily, heavily modded. In that one anyone who posts something non-constructive or flat out wrong will get punished. The end would be almost the same as this, but you wouldn't kick out people who may just be unlucky in getting promoted, but know the game. You would still get more quality posts this way. I agree with this. | ||
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gospelwut
United States52 Posts
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On September 21 2010 06:15 TekKpriest wrote: So I cheese my way up to 1200 (which isnt hard btw) and can still post crap ;o it has to be 1400-1500+ to have a difference compared to what we have now. That limits the discussion to like, 250 players per realm. Sorry but no. 1200 is actually a pretty good metric at the moment. There's probably a couple thousand capable players overall. | ||
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Koukalaka
United Kingdom80 Posts
On September 21 2010 06:13 Jibba wrote: That's funny because I was in Overrated and was possibly the first mage on the planet to use RIs for raiding, and I never posted on EJ either. Still, I had to fight through a ton of idiocy to post on the B.net forums and that's the problem we're facing now. I say this completely independently from being a banling, but we're not assuming that lower level players have no insights to contribute. The problem is that when I would post on B.net (I am a forum whore, after all), I had to deal with a huge amount of idiots telling me I was wrong, when they didn't know what they were talking about, and in that case volume wins out over quality. Moderation helps with that, but the quantity we're talking about is pretty enormous. There is a lot of bad advice in the Strategy Forums at the moment, and while I think repeat offenders should be removed, we can't just wipe out 80% of the posters there. I got banned from the WoW forums because I said that Shaman were imbalanced during Sunwell (I played Resto Shaman) and called anyone who disagreed with me a moron. Seems I got banned despite being right. Besides, most of what Elitist Jerks discuss has no possible place in PvE. Which is why I dislike it. I played Shaman how I thought they ought to be played, and I'd say I did fucking well in WoW for where I was in terms of "overall ranking". (Best PvE Shaman in the world <3) But getting back to the issue here - you cannot fix it. Short of banning anyone who is an idiot, or makes various idiotic comments you cannot "initiate any sort of rule list" because it wont be read, people will pass around accounts and it will be awful. | ||
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