EPTmules feel too strong atm, esp when the marine is the best mineral sink and the hellion is so strong vs zerg...
The Power of the Mule. - Page 24
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kthnx
20 Posts
mules feel too strong atm, esp when the marine is the best mineral sink and the hellion is so strong vs zerg... | ||
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trevf
United States237 Posts
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in7e.sCream
Germany48 Posts
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:07 in7e.sCream wrote: ^ another terran claiming that all is fine. why not? As someone stated before, with the choice of chrono boosting probes protoss leads in worker count (permanently) where as mules are a temporary mechanic. | ||
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in7e.sCream
Germany48 Posts
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Toke
United States30 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:11 alexpnd wrote: why not? As someone stated before, with the choice of chrono boosting probes protoss leads in worker count (permanently) where as mules are a temporary mechanic. it also makes it so terran needs a LOT less scv's late game leading to more supply room for a larger army. this especially is crap because their armies are ridiculously powerful even when they don't outnumber the opponent's. | ||
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Tonyoh
France218 Posts
- Terran loose 3 scvs cost (150) and 2 scvs mining ( orbital command building time). That means something like 120 mineral by minute for the WHOLE game. - Terran is always building, so that makes a huge difference... lot of mineral lost every minutes. - You have more probes thanx to chronoboost, and they will last for EVER, meaning that with the first 3 CB you have 3 probes more which is something like 180 mineral by minute for the WHOLE game. - Same thing for drone got by queen larva... and a second expand is only 300. Althought creating building pick up drones balance that So the only point where you are right is about mules on gold expansion at middle game and larva which cannot stack, which punish zerg players who forget about that. Maybe they could implement something like a queen biding : that way if a queen is bind to an hatchery it will be able to span larvas with no limits. Actually I feel that protoss has the strongest economy. | ||
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HobbitGotGame
Canada178 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:11 alexpnd wrote: why not? As someone stated before, with the choice of chrono boosting probes protoss leads in worker count (permanently) where as mules are a temporary mechanic. A temporary mechanic that allows you too significantly boost your income for 50 energy at a time. With no penalty for mis-timing. When timed correctly can persist throughout the entire game. Usually starting at 15 supply. Which scales linearly as you gain more OC's. | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On September 20 2010 23:37 theSAiNT wrote: Did you even read my post? You're the one who is 'cherrypicking', completely quoting out of context. The Terran is RIGHTLY saving energy for scans against a midgame protoss because of the potential threat of DTs. He can safely mule AFTER he sees high templars with storm because now he knows there won't be DTs. Yet he actually had costs for that. By threathening DTs the Protoss decreases the Terrans Income compared to what it could be. On September 20 2010 23:53 Koukalaka wrote: The problem is the following: - Protoss have chrono boost > as a result their units and research takes longer to complete compared to Zerg/Terran. Just like it was in BW. Protoss have long build/researchtimes because they are Protoss not because they have Chronoboost. On September 20 2010 23:53 Koukalaka wrote: - Zerg have creep > as a result their units are slower off of creep, and faster on creep. Yeah. It´s like saying that because Terrans have MULES that they have more minerals with MULEs than they´d have without them. But you are probably trying to say that Zerg have a Mobility disadvantage - just not true. Queens and Hydras, every other Zerg unit is naturally fast enough for their role. If you want to abuse Zerg Immobility you need to 1. get them to use Hydras and 2. get rid of the Creep. In any other case mobility simply isn´t a Zerg problem especially figuring in Nydus. On September 20 2010 23:53 Koukalaka wrote: - Terran have mules > ... but their units are by far the most cost effective units in the game? How exactly are they the most cost effective? Honestly, maybe it´s true but by what metric do you determine this? On September 20 2010 23:53 Koukalaka wrote: So the Zerg/Protoss "specialities" also give them partial negatives, while the Mule really has no negative outset. Especially given there is actually "hardly any" time lost on SCV production, compared to Drone/Probe. Only Probe/Drone production can be "forced out" moreso than SCVs. What, suddenly Terrans have no specific disadvantages anymore? Their Buildings no longer lose HP on their own when in red? Construction can no longer be interrupted by killing the worker? Restoring HP no longer costs resources? Or to be more specific to MULEs, constructing a OC no longer prevents that OC from becoming a PF or loading in SCVs? They don´t draw from the same energypool as Scan? | ||
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in7e.sCream
Germany48 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:07 in7e.sCream wrote: ^ another terran claiming that all is fine. Agreeing that Terran is imbalanced doesn't mean we have to agree with every new absurd idea of why that people come up with each week. On September 21 2010 00:13 in7e.sCream wrote: because you spend all your cbs on your nexus. most ridiculous post in this thread. I already pointed out earlier that spending "all" your chrono boosts on the nexus is a gross exaggeration. You need ~3 for a 4-worker advantage, which is how much you need to keep up with the MULE until you hit saturation. On September 20 2010 23:53 Koukalaka wrote: The problem is the following: - Protoss have chrono boost > as a result their units and research takes longer to complete compared to Zerg/Terran. - Zerg have creep > as a result their units are slower off of creep, and faster on creep. Where do people get this idea that Protoss research and Zerg move-speeds were deliberately nerfed to compensate for their macro mechanics? Last I checked, Protoss weapons/armor upgrades (which are the only directly-comparable tech) have the same research time as their Terran/Zerg counterparts, speedlings are still the fastest units in the game, with or without creep, and in general, Zerg move-speeds are more or less in line with those of the other races. | ||
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OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Imba claimers are impermeable to logic. (that's why I used a religion analogy earlier in this thread, imba claimerslogic = religious fanatics logic, or lack of) | ||
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Karkadinn
United States132 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:23 Unentschieden wrote: Yeah. It´s like saying that because Terrans have MULES that they have more minerals with MULEs than they´d have without them. But you are probably trying to say that Zerg have a Mobility disadvantage - just not true. Queens and Hydras, every other Zerg unit is naturally fast enough for their role. If you want to abuse Zerg Immobility you need to 1. get them to use Hydras and 2. get rid of the Creep. In any other case mobility simply isn´t a Zerg problem especially figuring in Nydus. (Since you're replying to a guy who is paraphrasing me, I'm gonna take the liberty of responding here.) Whenever a Zerg points out some of the many weaknesses in Zerg units, the stock response is 'But Zerg are more mobile!' However, this generally does not apply in aggressive situations. You don't get your creep, and the problems with using Nydus for aggression are numerous. So you're left relying on the base mobility of the Zerg army. Which is, in fact, no better than any other army's except for zerglings and mutalisks. All other units vary from average to unbearably slow in aggressive situations. While another player may look at this kind of mobility and think it's not so bad because they don't have much better themselves, it contradicts the fact that Zerg are weaker in other areas supposedly to make up for their incredible mobility... which has all kinds of conditions and restraints attached to it. Like the undead regeneration mechanic in Warcraft 3, there are more downsides than advantages to this supposed racial advantage. This is one of several things that leads Zerg to a frantically defensive playstyle where they're unable to dictate the flow of the game. Comparisons to Warcraft 3's undead versus an acolyte-whacking blademaster come to mind. On September 21 2010 00:23 Unentschieden wrote: How exactly are they the most cost effective? Honestly, maybe it´s true but by what metric do you determine this? For just one example, compare and contrast the hydralisk to the marine in roughly equal costs. | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
What will we whine about next? TL has become nothing but a cesspool of whining children. | ||
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Mentymion
Germany259 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:54 TheYango wrote: Agreeing that Terran is imbalanced doesn't mean we have to agree with every new absurd idea of why that people come up with each week. I already pointed out earlier that spending "all" your chrono boosts on the nexus is a gross exaggeration. You need ~3 for a 4-worker advantage, which is how much you need to keep up with the MULE until you hit saturation. Where do people get this idea that Protoss research and Zerg move-speeds were deliberately nerfed to compensate for their macro mechanics? Last I checked, Protoss weapons/armor upgrades (which are the only directly-comparable tech) have the same research time as their Terran/Zerg counterparts, speedlings are still the fastest units in the game, with or without creep, and in general, Zerg move-speeds are more or less in line with those of the other races. Warp Prism 50sec. = Medivac 42sec. Colossus 75sec. = Thor 60sec. Carrier 120sec. = Battlecruiser 90sec. and the fact which makes me rly laugh Marauder 30sec. So he definitley has a point here. OK Techwise the times should be like they are right now but these units clearly show that CB had influence on the timings... | ||
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TymerA
Netherlands759 Posts
On September 21 2010 01:17 ltortoise wrote: How is this thread still alive? The MULE is imbalanced? Seriously? What will we whine about next? well they are running out of material... think marines are up next  | ||
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TibblesEvilCat
United Kingdom766 Posts
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Vierd
United States49 Posts
I dunno, just an idea. | ||
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
Seconded that. Best post in this thread for sure. Out of discussion but I still want to point out that Wc3 is also built in this way, which also makes it just that good of a game like SC/SC2 is. | ||
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