The Power of the Mule. - Page 27

On September 21 2010 09:06 terranghost wrote:
To anyone arguing that increasing the energy cost of the mule would devastate the early game.
What about this
mule is now 75 energy starting energy from an OC is now 100. This means that you can still immediately call down a mule when the OC finishes and your second one will be able to be called down when you accumulate 50 more energy. Now anything after that would be slower. But your main should be saturated by that point in time. And you should be pressing on to take your natural if you haven't already.

On September 21 2010 10:05 SlowBlink wrote:

Right, it's not like terran has a 100/100 upgrade that allows their ground forces to speed up at any given time. That would totally be OP

Also did you seriously just compare hydralisks to siege tanks and immortals? I wasn't aware that hydras could effectively double their range and damage with a 100/100 upgrade (although 10 range still wouldn't compare), not to mention that they're about as sturdy as a wet newspaper.

On September 21 2010 11:21 doffe wrote:
I really do not think mules as a unit is in any way OP, and no...im not a terran player. What I do think though is that the mechanic itself is to forgiving. This has probably been stated way to much but then Ill just say it again. A zerg and a terran with quite low apm will not be punished in the same way.

On September 21 2010 11:21 doffe wrote:
Where a zerg just have excess energy he cant spend on anything usefull (creeptumours sure but after you dont need soooo many and a player of lesser skill wont have the apm anyway), the terran though will just use up all his energy and get that huge income boost at once. Therefore I do think the mule should be on a CD, this wont hurt the pro's very much, if at all but the mechanic itself wont be as forgiving as it is now. Sure, you cant save up loads of energy and pump a new expo with loads of mules but really, thats not really something I think terrans should cry about =).

Maybe chronoboost should have the same mechanic, I dont know.

Any opinions about this? I may not have thought this through completly so perhaps im missing something big =)

Yeah shure maybe not a stimmed bioball but that is really expensive to maintain constant stim without having them in the red constantly.

On September 21 2010 19:06 Dommk wrote:


I disagree, Bio is pretty inexpensive for their cost. Check this game out, BratOk with around 35 harvesters (effectively mining off a single base) could pump out enough bio to hold off Socke who was on 3-4-5 Bases and over 40-50 harvesters up for a good 15mins and there were points in the game where he had a good chance of winning. For a game that has allot of emphasis on macro it really is quite forgiving for Terran.

On September 21 2010 20:39 Unentschieden wrote:


Bratok doesn´t hold off Sockes Army, he keeps them from steamrolling him with constant harrassment. Bratok exploited the hell out of Socke stretching himself over half the map.

On September 21 2010 18:58 Unentschieden wrote:


That would make it WORSE for the purposes of the argumentation in this thread. The common complaint isn´t really that MULEs are too powerful but that using them is too easy/forgiving compared to what Zerg do. Slowing it down without underpowering Terrans would make it easier.

On September 16 2010 17:08 Frack wrote:
It would be interesting if the mule had a cooldown, say 30secs to a minute, but then chrono boost doesnt have a cool down and larva stacks.

But i wouldnt be opposed to a trial period of a cooldown to see how it works.

On September 21 2010 13:18 EliteAzn wrote:
I find it halarious how this thread has morphed back and forth about how the mule is cheap/too effective and crap like that. Face it, Terrans need mules, end of story. The only thing I'm asking as a z player is for a damn cooldown (an argument that has been brought up many times in this thread, but then is ignored and covered with more crap about "mule = 3 workers omg."

Seriously, add the damn cooldown so u don't see 6 mules come down in 5 seconds. We understand that yes, u lost potential minerals, but hear me out. What do u lose when u go over by 25 or even 50 energy? technically nothing, just plop it down and wait less time for the next. How much does zerg lose? A whole spawn larva cycle that can't be regained...yeh z can plop down creep, but terran can also scan with extra energy as well, so those arguments cancel out (b/c frankly, no one wants to argue more about stupid shit).

Please for the love of god, please make the argument push towards cooldown, and once that's established, then u guys can argue about the strength of mules (an argument that I believe is stupid b/c no one will win that argument)

On September 21 2010 18:58 Unentschieden wrote:


That would make it WORSE for the purposes of the argumentation in this thread. The common complaint isn´t really that MULEs are too powerful but that using them is too easy/forgiving compared to what Zerg do. Slowing it down without underpowering Terrans would make it easier.



I´d like to know how I can afford it to stim across the map. What I´m comparing here is Mobility, particularly in the Macro sense. As long as they are on creep any Zerg groundarmy can outrun any groundarmy of the other races.
Yeah shure maybe not a stimmed bioball but that is really expensive to maintain constant stim without having them in the red constantly.



Thats right the "punishment" isn´t equal. However Terrans will instead suffer a production bottleneck. Terrans can´t "store" productioncapacity like the larvaesystem does.



The issue with that is that storing Energy is a valid and intentional strategy and is somewhat equivialent to Zerg storing Larvae. A Terran having 8 Mules stored "in case" is like a Zerg that has 2k Minerals and 20 Larvae around.

On September 21 2010 20:39 Unentschieden wrote:
Bratok doesn´t hold off Sockes Army, he keeps them from steamrolling him with constant harrassment. Bratok exploited the hell out of Socke stretching himself over half the map.