The Power of the Mule. - Page 10

On September 16 2010 17:08 Frack wrote:
It would be interesting if the mule had a cooldown, say 30secs to a minute, but then chrono boost doesnt have a cool down and larva stacks.

But i wouldnt be opposed to a trial period of a cooldown to see how it works.

On September 17 2010 04:52 KingAce wrote:
Honestly I believe chrono boosting probes, spawning extra larva for drones and mules should be removed from the game. I don't really see how boosting your economy this way can be balanced for all races and it's just not an interesting mechanic at all.

On September 17 2010 04:52 KingAce wrote:
Honestly I believe chrono boosting probes, spawning extra larva for drones and mules should be removed from the game. I don't really see how boosting your economy this way can be balanced for all races and it's just not an interesting mechanic at all.

Killing off mining scvs is pretty useless especially mid to late game.Terran mines so efficiently that they can even afford to make extra orbital commands in the late game.
You're better off sniping refineries.

And mules don't take up any food compared to probes or drones.

These new eco mechanics make one of the more interesting things in Starcraft weak, I mean economic harassment.

On September 17 2010 05:12 c0rn1 wrote:
Well, some quick facts to your factual screenshot which is taken out of context.
A mule is about 4-5 SCV in mining.
As you MIGHT have seen, Morrow did pull all his SCV off gas. which is 19 probes on minerals.
Plus 4 Mules (it's not like he can call down 4 mules every 30s) working which makes it 35-39 SCV depending on close or further mineral patches.
HUK had 12 probes saturating his gas efficiency. so that is 35-39SV vs 40 probes on minerals.
So all is fine ...
Please check the context before you make imbalance threads.
and due to chrono bost a toss can have 4-5 more probes as T has SCV until full saturation of 1 base.
So the Mule just makes up for that.
When you get a T scanning now he literally loses about 300 minerals.

cheers

On September 16 2010 23:34 MorroW wrote:
its funyn u take that game as example because i fell behind insanily hard barely survived and then lost the game miserbly. i never got back into the game with the mule i just made the game last longer while i had so big disadvantage

chrono boost and spawn larva lets u get out workers alot faster and i think thats better than the mule because the mule is always a set number of minerals while squeezing out workers faster multiplies in effectiveness :p

ppl r really overdoing the mules "imbaness" i hope u realize if u nerfed it it would turn terran matchups so hard for terran because the mule actually gives that much

mule nerf would be nice for gameplay imo but they would be forced to compensate it with other things for the terran race

On September 17 2010 02:36 Bleedorang3 wrote:


Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You do realize, at least in Zergs case, that larvae have to be split between:

1: Drones
2: Combat Units
3: Supply (Overlords)

Correct? And then Drones have to be split again between harvesting and building creation.

Yes, MULES are as powerful as we think.

On September 17 2010 02:03 KaiserJohan wrote:
I'd trade Mule/scan for chrono boost any day. Any day.

On September 16 2010 17:18 attackfighter wrote:
It only mines minerals faster, so while it's powerful it's not going to give the Terran an edge where it counts most - gas. Gas heavy units like collusus, high templar, tanks, ghosts, medivacs and vikings are just so pivotal in TvT, it really overshadows the extra marines/marauders that the mule will get you.

Mules can be super duper good in some situations though; like you noted, they let you maintain a decent income after losing lots of workers, and another major benefit is in the early game when mineral only units are a lot stronger (their counters aren't teched to yet).

On September 17 2010 05:22 Dommk wrote:
Err, I think your missing something here. Morrow was down to 19 SVC's after losing a fuck ton defending, his entire production cycle accumulated significantly more than 19 SVC's, if he didn't lose all those SVC's it's safe to assume that Morrow would have been 15-20 SVC's ahead...

On September 16 2010 17:23 inF.PrO wrote:
lol chroono boost is rly better -.- u can make 2 probe while i make 1 scv and the probe are 4ever -.-

On September 17 2010 05:50 arb wrote:

Lets not negate the fact that these 4 probes you'll get out of 50 energy, still wont mine the same amount as a mule, and with the 2 scvs you made you'll actually exceed the amount!

totally balanced

On September 17 2010 04:30 Acritter wrote:


Does anyone else find Morrow's posts to be disturbingly... low quality for a player of his caliber? I will admit I've only seen him post twice, but both posts were in balance threads saying that if feature X (1.1 Tanks was the other one, IIRC) of Terran were to be nerfed the race would become unplayable. He also seems to be missing some of the points of the arguments, such as the fact that it didn't matter whether he won that game, just that the MULEs were able to supplement his income to such a huge degree. I'm not saying that he's bad or unqualified, just that there seem to be a lot of missing ideas from his posts here.

OT: The main power of MULEs seems to be their ability to skyrocket Terran income on 1-2 base play. This lets them match Protoss and Zerg players with more bases, and lets them expand later and focus on harass earlier. I wouldn't say it's the core of the problem, but it meshes very strongly with the innate features of the Terran race- extreme harass ability, the versatile and powerful Marine, and strong mineral-heavy static defense- to really boost the strength of certain varieties of Terran play. If, say, Zerg got MULEs, then they really wouldn't be able to abuse them as much, because Zerg is primarily limited by gas. Giant Zergling armies just aren't as strong, and there's no harass Zerg can really rush to on one or two bases to make use of the accelerated income.

On September 17 2010 05:54 c0rn1 wrote:


Did you yet think about the fact that SCV actually have to be present to build any Terran building?
So from the very first supply depot you have most of the time 2 SCV doing nothing else than using a hammer and drill to build new stuff?

cheers

On September 17 2010 04:30 Acritter wrote:

Does anyone else find Morrow's posts to be disturbingly... low quality for a player of his caliber? I will admit I've only seen him post twice, but both posts were in balance threads saying that if feature X (1.1 Tanks was the other one, IIRC) of Terran were to be nerfed the race would become unplayable. He also seems to be missing some of the points of the arguments, such as the fact that it didn't matter whether he won that game, just that the MULEs were able to supplement his income to such a huge degree. I'm not saying that he's bad or unqualified, just that there seem to be a lot of missing ideas from his posts here.

OT: The main power of MULEs seems to be their ability to skyrocket Terran income on 1-2 base play. This lets them match Protoss and Zerg players with more bases, and lets them expand later and focus on harass earlier. I wouldn't say it's the core of the problem, but it meshes very strongly with the innate features of the Terran race- extreme harass ability, the versatile and powerful Marine, and strong mineral-heavy static defense- to really boost the strength of certain varieties of Terran play. If, say, Zerg got MULEs, then they really wouldn't be able to abuse them as much, because Zerg is primarily limited by gas. Giant Zergling armies just aren't as strong, and there's no harass Zerg can really rush to on one or two bases to make use of the accelerated income.