[Trick] Early Game +7% Mineral Boost - Page 6

-Frog-

United States514 Posts

September 12 2010 21:11 GMT

#101

I could spend the whole game using every single larvae the second it spawns but I don't because I need to manage my army and scout at the same time.

aru

183 Posts

September 12 2010 21:13 GMT

#102

On September 13 2010 06:10 ltortoise wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 13 2010 06:09 frog HERO wrote:

On September 13 2010 06:06 ltortoise wrote:

On September 13 2010 06:05 frog HERO wrote:

On September 13 2010 06:02 ltortoise wrote:

On September 13 2010 05:57 Half wrote:

On September 13 2010 05:48 ltortoise wrote:

On September 13 2010 05:41 frog HERO wrote:

On September 13 2010 05:35 Logo wrote:

On September 13 2010 05:33 frog HERO wrote:
[quote]

Why in the world is a bad thing that there is some skill that differentiates good players from bad ones? That's the basis of a competitive game. If you are only interested in casual play I doubt you will even be in the same league as players who can execute this perfectly 100% of the time.

You could make SC2 require the player to juggle tennis balls while playing and it'd add skill to the game.

It wouldn't make the game any better though.

Same with this trick, it pretty much adds nothing to the game that anyone should care about and instead is a useless headache that you're going to end up doing several thousands times over the course of your SC2 career.

Your juggling example is extreme and beyond the scope of reason. This trick isn't particularly difficult for anyone who has spent a decent amount of time playing RTS games and occurs during a period of the game where you basically do nothing anyways. It gives a small edge to those willing to learn and execute it but won't be the difference between a win and a loss for the vast majority of players.

If you were expected to do this during the mid game while larvae injecting, macroing off of 4 hatches, controlling your army, etc then you would have a valid point that it is ridiculous and too much of an APM sink. But that simply isn't the case, it's a cool trick that gives players with mouse/keyboard precision an advantage. And being accurate and fast with your mouse and keyboard is an essential part of being a starcraft player.

I don't even think you are correct in what you say. If the OP is correct, there is a delay after the worker finishes the "Mine" command, so this means that all it takes to continuously get a mining advantage at any point in the game is to:

A. select a worker currently mining the mineral patch
B. Queue return cargo
C. Queue mine. Fin.

That evades the problem of a faulty "return" command, and eliminates the AI delay from that mining worker.

Of course a more efficient method would be to shift-select a bunch of mining workers quickly, then queue return and mine.

Either way, this is stupid, and comparing it to making units is stupid, since that involves a decision, namely to make units at all, and if so which units to make. Likewise MULE is a decision (should I scan instead?), so is chrono boost (what do I chrono boost?)

This "trick" (bug) does not involve any decisions. If you have any workers, you want them mining as fast as possible. Completely mandatory. There is absolutely no decision to be made here, none.

Every other ACTUAL macro mechanic involves some sort of decision to be made. I have complete faith that Blizzard will fix this. They would never put something so inelegant in their game on purpose.

This is an extremely superficial and shallow view on how SC2 and SC1 is played.

It is a decision, and the scope of the decision exceeds the depth of mechanics like Muling and chronoboosting. Its a decision that exists on a meta-game level, consisting of a balance between microing workers for econ optimization, microing scouting for more information, making optimal simcities, etc etc. These things cannot be done all at once, and it is a strategic decision for the player on a meta-game level which one he wants to choose. Another factor this factors in is player skill, and how aware a player is of his own capabilities.

Its literally 10x better then crap like muling.

That is the biggest crock of bullshit I have ever read.

Let me rephrase what you just said without using all your bullshit terms:

"It's a decision because you have to decide whether or not you have the time to do it, or if there is something else more important to do."

Sure, but name any other mechanic in SC2 that works like that. Every single mechanic I can think of involves choice. There is no choice here except to do it as often as possible without sacrificing bigger parts of your game.

Imagine the optimal SC2 player: he would be perfectly doing this all the time, endlessly, throughout the entire game. Impossible and stupid. It makes SC2 absolutely ugly. Yuck.

What is an SC2 mechanic that isn't something you decide to do based on whether you have the time to do it or whether there is something more important to do? I could spend the entire game perfectly microing my overseer so that I have the optimal scouting information but I don't because I am sacrificing bigger parts of my game. How is this different?

Scouting with your overlord isn't a macro mechanic. I specifically said macro.

Edit: well I MEANT macro anyway....Macro mechanic, here.

What is an SC2 macro mechanic that isn't something you decide to do based on whether you have the time to do it or whether there is something more important to do? I could spend the entire game perfectly injecting larvae so that I have the optimal amount of larvae but I don't because I could lose my entire army that I wasn't microing or I could have no scouting information. How is this different?

Nope. Won't fly with me. Spawn larvae is a CHOICE. You could also use that energy for spreading creep or healing units.

ie. Making a queen is mandatory to being a good zerg? I guess you could choose not to make a queen.

iEchoic

United States1776 Posts

September 12 2010 21:14 GMT

#103

It blows my mind that people think that repeating a series of commands somehow adds skill to the game. The juggling example is perfect.

Literally anybody could do this if they put enough time into doing it. You could actually train an ape to do it. Getting good at doing this says nothing about your RTS skills. It says nothing about your thought process. Literally the only thing it does is signal that you've practiced it a lot.

Klive5ive

United Kingdom6056 Posts

September 12 2010 21:14 GMT

#104

Sweet.
This does wonders for my 10pools great find.
Remember when SC2 was first played and someone asked a Blizzard guy "what am I supposed to do at the start?" (because of the low apm requirements)... this is the answer!

I think "sockmining" could catch on.

ltortoise

633 Posts

September 12 2010 21:14 GMT

#105

On September 13 2010 06:11 frog HERO wrote:
I could spend the whole game using every single larvae the second it spawns but I don't because I need to manage my army and scout at the same time.

Or you could decide that you don't want to make units right then, for whatever reason. All these things you are talking about involve decisions. And you still have to decide which units to make.

You could be saving your money for a more expensive unit. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Lennon

United Kingdom2275 Posts

September 12 2010 21:16 GMT

#106

On one side you've got "Free +7% minerals? Yes, please. How do I do this?". On the other side you've got "Now I have to do extra work to keep up? Zzzz. I can't be bothered because it doesn't make any significant difference anyway". I feel sorry for the latter.

tofucake

Hyrule19031 Posts

September 12 2010 21:17 GMT

#107

Kawaii just did this vs Suppy in OWC 8. He had insane income.

caPnjazz

Germany23 Posts

September 12 2010 21:17 GMT

#108

Awesome find, Sockfolder. Didn't notice the difference at first but tested it again on slower and saw the difference. I will now spend the rest of my sunday trying to use this in my games.

leetchaos

United States395 Posts

September 12 2010 21:19 GMT

#109

This works, its impossible for me to do on all my workers throughout the first few minutes (100apm). But I could easily see pro players pulling this off, I think its interesting.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

September 12 2010 21:19 GMT

#110

I was wondering how this affects 6 pools in particular. I'm trying to test more, (first game he went forge first, figures), but if anyone can comment more succinctly on this it'd be nice.

Also, to those who are saying that "oh, this isn't real skill and it actually might take away from the game," I would have to disagree with you. It's like SCBW where drones couldn't just auto-rally to the mineral patch. You actually had to take care of it. This adds more depth to it, you have to make sure your workers are mining to their greatest efficiency.

To those saying, "oh its just a tactless thing, not real strategy", just imagine your a general making sure your grunts mine the most efficient way and don't slack off after mining each time.

Great find, and great 1st post.

cr4ckshot

United States291 Posts

September 12 2010 21:20 GMT

#111

We'll dub this method as "Sockfolding".

SONE

Canada839 Posts

September 12 2010 21:21 GMT

#112

On September 13 2010 05:35 lolaloc wrote:
Just to add, let's call this trick "Sockfolding".

sorry to the ^, someone beat you to it

TitleRug

United States651 Posts

September 12 2010 21:21 GMT

#113

I think it should be called "mineral boosting" like the article seems to suggests.

Kyruel

United States91 Posts

September 12 2010 21:22 GMT

#114

can anyone make a video of this?

Zurles

United Kingdom1659 Posts

September 12 2010 21:22 GMT

#115

On September 13 2010 05:20 Snowfield wrote:

Show nested quote +

Or not really because it's a minimal gain which you can EASILY screw up and make it not worth anything, we will see.

Every pro player will, that's what I was talking about, not the general casuals, of course they won't

Channel56k

United States413 Posts

September 12 2010 21:24 GMT

#116

On September 13 2010 06:14 iEchoic wrote:
It blows my mind that people think that repeating a series of commands somehow adds skill to the game. The juggling example is perfect.

Literally anybody could do this if they put enough time into doing it. You could actually train an ape to do it. Getting good at doing this says nothing about your RTS skills. It says nothing about your thought process. Literally the only thing it does is signal that you've practiced it a lot.

I dont see it as that "mind blowing"....

Is says nothing about your thought process?

Well it says your thinking about what to do with the extra 7% income, that implies some macro skill no? It also implies your eager to try new tactics, that speaks to creativity.

Your right, it also signals that you've practiced a lot and those who generally practice are increasing their skills and any given RTS.

I dont see what your issue is buddy? Can i call you buddy?

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

September 12 2010 21:24 GMT

#117

7% is huge, i'm kinda hoping it gets patched i'm very lazy at the beginning (my apm in the beginning is like 0 but i get around 100 during the rest of the game.

ltortoise

633 Posts

September 12 2010 21:24 GMT

#118

On September 13 2010 06:19 Pandain wrote:
Also, to those who are saying that "oh, this isn't real skill and it actually might take away from the game," I would have to disagree with you. It's like SCBW where drones couldn't just auto-rally to the mineral patch. You actually had to take care of it. This adds more depth to it, you have to make sure your workers are mining to their greatest efficiency.

Dumb comparison. Telling a fresh worker to mine is nothing. It was an unfortunate distraction, but it takes almost no effort compared to exploiting this bug continuously. There is no "depth" here.

Phant

United States737 Posts

September 12 2010 21:25 GMT

#119

I hope this gets patched simply because it is an extremely boring mechanic.

wxwx

527 Posts

September 12 2010 21:25 GMT

#120

boring repetitive crap. I spend my mining time chatting with friends/opponent, grabbing a drink, or whatever.. And now you're saying I can't anymore?

Probably not gonna GL HF anymore too. That would put me back 20 minerals.

IMO this is bad for the game.. This isn't really micro, since you have nothing to micro against. It's basically just routine spamming that anyone can do with practice. There's no split-second decision making or reaction micro... It's just a predetermined clicking routine... Might as well award minerals to the player who types the alphabet backwards while droning... That's "keyboard skill" too am i right?

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