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On September 11 2010 02:57 Slow Motion wrote:
Instead of adding more easy mode hotkeys, why don't we take them out and force people to multitask? Take out crap like MBS, auto group, auto repair, smart fires. At higher levels in longer games, this will mean that slight differences in skill will start to shine through and the stronger player will have an advantage.
Because its 2010, not 1997. People have to stop living in the past, and actually adapt to changes... Blizzard wants the game to focus more on creativity and strategy, rather than mechanical clicking that is only learnt through years of doing the same thing over and over.
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I don't even know what you guys are talking about here. Autogroup??
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I say either drop the warpgate button or give zerg a larva button. Also, allow players to create a Queen spawn larva rally(perhaps not the best word). I think that simply change to allow players to simply hotkey their queens and hit 'v' a couple times would even things out a bit with the other races.
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zerg has all of their production units in a single building which they can map to a single hotkey.
terran is normal and usually has to use multiple hotkeys (unless you like to put them all on the same and tab through them)
protoss warpgates is a special technique which requires significantly more mico than terran or zerg, this button makes up for the fact, also I usually hotkey warpgates to 4 anyway.)
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I totally wouldn´t have a problem if they´d remove it because I hotkey my gates anyway and I use an english client + grid keys with german keyboards which means I have to change the layout to play protoss because I can´t change the hotkey(-.-) that I don´t even use.
English layout then always owns me when I try to chat.
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On September 11 2010 03:14 Scorcher2k wrote:
I say either drop the warpgate button or give zerg a larva button. Also, allow players to create a Queen spawn larva rally(perhaps not the best word). I think that simply change to allow players to simply hotkey their queens and hit 'v' a couple times would even things out a bit with the other races.
You do realize you are comparing a macro mechanic to a non-maco mechanic?
Chrono boost does not have a special hotkey. Anyone care to discuss this?
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Calgary25996 Posts
It doesn't really affect competitive play. Weak players would have complained "I have to go click on my wrap gate and then find where I want to warp in units" so they just added one key that always does it.
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Protoss macro is difficult enough as it is. Zerg has the easiest time as they don't even have to take an eye off of whatever they are doing to macro: create workers, make overlords, spawn larva, or produce units. Terran can just spam units from ther rax/factory/starport with hotkeys without looking at them.
Protoss on the other hand need to change location to the nearest pylon to warp in. The same with chronoboost and building pylons for more supply. I believe having 'w' to autoselect all warpgates is necessary to makes things more even in terms of mechanics.
Again: Zerg has the easiest macro mechanics of all the races, what more would you want? Autocast for spawn larva?
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On September 11 2010 03:20 habermas wrote:
Protoss macro is difficult enough as it is. Zerg has the easiest time as they don't even have to take an eye off of whatever they are doing to macro: create workers, make overlords, spawn larva, or produce units. Terran can just spam units from ther rax/factory/starport with hotkeys without looking at them.
Protoss on the other hand need to change location to the nearest pylon to warp in. The same with chronoboost and building pylons for more supply. I believe having 'w' to autoselect all warpgates is necessary to makes things more even in terms of mechanics.
This doesn't make sense. It's not different than adding warp gates to a control key. I think the OP may be asking why the warp gate? I personally do find it kind of odd they randomly decided the warp gates will get the 'w' key.
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On September 11 2010 03:20 habermas wrote:
Protoss macro is difficult enough as it is. Zerg has the easiest time as they don't even have to take an eye off of whatever they are doing to macro: create workers, make overlords, spawn larva, or produce units. Terran can just spam units from ther rax/factory/starport with hotkeys without looking at them.
Protoss on the other hand need to change location to the nearest pylon to warp in. The same with chronoboost and building pylons for more supply. I believe having 'w' to autoselect all warpgates is necessary to makes things more even in terms of mechanics.
Again: Zerg has the easiest macro mechanics of all the races, what more would you want? Autocast for spawn larva?
O.O
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8751 Posts
On September 11 2010 03:11 Rifty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:57 Slow Motion wrote:
Instead of adding more easy mode hotkeys, why don't we take them out and force people to multitask? Take out crap like MBS, auto group, auto repair, smart fires. At higher levels in longer games, this will mean that slight differences in skill will start to shine through and the stronger player will have an advantage. Because its 2010, not 1997. People have to stop living in the past, and actually adapt to changes... Blizzard wants the game to focus more on creativity and strategy, rather than mechanical clicking that is only learnt through years of doing the same thing over and over.
First, SC1 players have not done the same thing over and over for years. New strategies have constantly been invented and are still being invented.
Second, SC2 is very similar to SC1. Their differences are mainly because of the different ages of the games. SC2 has just come out so many basic things need to be figured out. A player who likes to invent build orders will probably win more games than a player who likes to improve existing build orders. Mechanical players will shine later in the game's life when there are good solid build orders for them to copy and improve upon.
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On September 11 2010 03:20 Chill wrote:
It doesn't really affect competitive play. Weak players would have complained "I have to go click on my wrap gate and then find where I want to warp in units" so they just added one key that always does it.
This. Who cares, it doesn't seem to affect high level play, and it compensates for not being able to queue and rally units for weak players. I really don't think Tyler or White-Ra would have to re-vamp their game if you took away the Warp Gate button.
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On September 11 2010 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 03:14 Scorcher2k wrote:
I say either drop the warpgate button or give zerg a larva button. Also, allow players to create a Queen spawn larva rally(perhaps not the best word). I think that simply change to allow players to simply hotkey their queens and hit 'v' a couple times would even things out a bit with the other races. You do realize you are comparing a macro mechanic to a non-maco mechanic? Chrono boost does not have a special hotkey. Anyone care to discuss this?
I will make the argument over and over that the queen's spawn larva is a macro mechanic. It does NOT matter that it comes from a unit but that the skill itself is entirely macro based. Saying that it isn't a macro mechanic is like saying that an SCV building something isn't a macro mechanic. The disadvantage to having to call down warpgate units in a powered area is completely offset by the fact that they can call down warpgate units ANYWHERE they have a powered area imo and there is no need for a warpgate key.
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Don't most high level Toss players still group their warps on #5? I don't think too many select them via 'w' though that could just be a habit.
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Maybe because warp gates are the hardest macro buildings to use out of the three races?
With Zerg and Terran you can macro from elsewhere while you watch/micro your army. With Protoss you have to move your camera back to pylon power and start placing units there.
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On September 11 2010 03:34 -orb- wrote:
Maybe because warp gates are the hardest macro buildings to use out of the three races?
With Zerg and Terran you can macro from elsewhere while you watch/micro your army. With Protoss you have to move your camera back to pylon power and start placing units there.
Orb, <3.
Yet again, Orb knows best  ! lol
Seriously I would KILL to be able to macro my warpgates in the midst of a battle without switching views.
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Spawn larva doesn't have this because it uses energy. The ability is not on cooldown like warpgates are.
Though the argument could be made that spawn larva should be a non-energy cooldown like warpgates, or that warpgates should use energy for warping in like Nexus does for Chronoboost (also why CB doesn't have this ability, it uses energy).
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On September 11 2010 02:43 kamicom wrote:
Let me make it clear that I'm not crying imba. I just can't see the justification of having such a function exclusively for one race. Personally, I'd prefer if it were removed but I wouldn't mind (hotkeying buildings is just a split second esp. for more experienced players)
Warpgate in itself is an amazing technology which is why it's appealing as the predominant race. Hypothetically speaking, why can't barracks or hatcheries have the same function?
Really? well i'm sure another person couldn't make said "justification" for some other racial difference/unit/upgrade.
Also why does so many of these threads open with "i'm not crying imba" or similar things and then ask to add or remove something from the game.
Personally you'd prefer it removed, you give no reasoning other than other races don't have the same function, which is pretty weak when you consider all the differences between races.
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I don't see any valid reasons for it other than to make newbies complain less.
Not even the "warpgates have a cooldown blah blah" thing makes sense. If you don't use your larvae quickly, you will not get new ones and therefore lose production time. If you don't warp in anything, you will lose production time. And no it doesn't matter too much that zerg can get 3 larvae before the hatch doesn't spawn new ones, because Queens will make sure that you hit the 3 larva limit frequently.
I really hope that, if they ever implement hotkey changing properly, you will be able to just disable that hotkey. I hate it because it is stupid from a design perspective.
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On September 11 2010 02:50 Thunderflesh wrote:
Mainly because with rax and hatcheries, you don't immediately have to place the unit on the map. If you rally rax and hatcheries to your army, then you can just select the building and build the unit.
Warp gates require you to pick a spot on the screen, effectively adding another step. I see the auto-group/cooldown notification as a way to compensate for that.
Edit: also, warp gates can't queue units, the way that normal gateways/rax can, so an on-screen notification of when you can warp in another unit makes up for that. On the flip side if I'm supporting 5 barracks, and I can only make one marine in each, if I forget to go back in time it takes me 20 (or whatever the right number) more seconds to build marines, whereas if you have 5 warpgates, then if you forget, it doesn't matter since zealots pop out after 3 seconds.
Warpgates are fine as it is, there doesn't need to be anything more to it design wise.
People arguing that warpgates require micro is technically right.
But its bollocks. If you're complaining about having to, god forbid, go back to a (likely proxy) pylon to make your units, you're just complaining for the sake of complaining (sorry you can make your units pop out anywhere you have a pylon). If you want to be able to make units without taking your eyes off the battle then just make normal gateways. You can't ask for everything.
Also I've only ever used W when playing P, can you not bind them to 1 and have the same function? Because I always thought you couldn't, hence when they would give you W to use, but it seems like my assumption is wrong based on what the OP is saying.
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EPT
