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A) Look away from your current screen
B) Rally every single time you warp in
C) Are vulnerable to attack/loss of power
It doesn't matter because warpgates are just so much easier to use anyway.
T has to have 2 seperate control groups because reactor can't be mixed with techlabs well anymore. In addition, T has to make the most production buildings, and utilize the most amount of them. Zerg just has queens, nuff said.
What does protoss have? You have your entire ideal lategame army (zealot//sentry/stalker/ht) on one building, and warpgate Zealots are the single best mineral sink in the entire game. You don't even have to use your macro mechanic past midgame beyond teching, and in fact, many pro protoss do not.
We got to look away every 40 seconds or so for Chrono boost. So what?
lol no you don't. I regularly see very high level toss just sit around with 75 energy. The boost it gives is incredibly marginal unless your using it to tech, or its early game.
If your chrono boost doubled overall production for ~5 gates or so indefinitely, and the game was balanced around that fact, ok, ye, we'll talk.
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ey protoss guys didnt you know that you also have to go and select your rallied units as zerg and terran as well? going and hotkeying and controlling your new reinforcements has to be done as t and z too lol
basically zerg and terran require about as much micro to have some reinforcements as protoss. on top of at least zerg having a lot harder macro than protoss anyway.
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On September 11 2010 16:29 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:49 andeh wrote:
There should be a larva inject cool down.
Toss get warpgate cooldown
Terran gets idle worker button
Where is the zerg love? o_o Don't they all get idle worker button? Isnt any build time a "cooldown" Yea I dont understand why there is a select all warpgates button every fucking thread gets derailed into race fanboyism. I blame zerg. lol.
The problem is that every zerg on the planet who sucks ass at this game thinks they are pro like IdrA and make balance complaints as if they had the knowledge/skill that IdrA does. I'm glad players like IdrA are vocal about their concerns with the game but maybe we could get IdrA to control these zerglings (or dimaga/cella) They think b/c they play zerg they are somehow better and almost have an elitist attitude about it. My race is SOOO hard and you are SOOO noob. I mean they do have legit concerns regarding Terran but it overspills into stupid garbage like this. Even if the OP isn't a troll this attitude is very common from what I've seen. Maybe its just general forum idiocy since SC2 is getting more popular there are just more idiots posting. Either way I won't "bump" this thread again if I can help it.
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are you seriously whining about such a trivial thing like this?
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On September 11 2010 03:08 acrimoneyius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:57 Slow Motion wrote:
Instead of adding more easy mode hotkeys, why don't we take them out and force people to multitask? Take out crap like MBS, auto group, auto repair, smart fires. At higher levels in longer games, this will mean that slight differences in skill will start to shine through and the stronger player will have an advantage. This isn't sc1...they built the game to be more intuitive. The game is less about spammy fucking fingers and more about thinking.
I still think more in BW than i do in SC2.
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On September 11 2010 03:47 vicariouscheese wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 03:01 DarkspearTribe wrote:... Shift+b+*insert building you want*+g holy ballsack ive been right clicking on minerals every time, definitely will help for buildings away from the mineral line....
Can somebody please explain this? It doesn't work for me. You mean, you don't have to click the minerals anymore? When are you supposed to release the Shift key? When I don't release it at all, it just offers me to place a second building, and if I release it after placing the building, I still have to click g+left-click minerals.
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On September 11 2010 16:29 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 14:18 King K. Rool wrote:On September 11 2010 09:30 Ryuu314 wrote:
It's harder to build units with Protoss in that it takes much more actions. Please don't try to deny this.
With MBS and hotkeys, Terran and Zerg pretty much just have to press the building hotkey and spam the unit hotkeys. They don't even have to look away. Protoss needs to look away into sight of a pylon. There is no avoiding this no matter how well you hotkey and how fast you can switch screens. That is a disadvantage no matter how you try to justify it.
Also, Protoss can't queue units and that is a huge disadvantage, especially since Protoss is essentially forced to look away, while Terran and Zerg (somewhat) can queue up units so their buildings are constantly producing even when they need to micro a battle. Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha. 1. Units can be warped in anywhere you have a pylon/prism 2. Units take a few seconds to warp in. If you want to fucking queue like the rest of us imba races then don't upgrade your gateways. Jesus fucking christ. I can't believe you protoss are complaining that your warpgates are underpowered. Holy mother of fucking hell. I don't even give a shit about the original OP's point, but the sight of you players whining disgust me. The OP is complaining about nothing while we are saying how warp gates are actually harder to use than the other races macro due to the facT (so tired) you have to A) Look away from your current screen B) Rally every single time you warp in C) Are vulnerable to attack/loss of power Also Gateways build units much slower than Warpgates. Queing is for bads, just saying.
Do you even understand the point I'm making?
Guess not. I'll explain it to you in easy terms.
A and B are true.
C is bullshit, protoss has always been like that so don't even give me that shit. If you're stupid enough to power all your warpgates on one pylon then you deserve to lose.
Do you not understand the fact that you can a) build units anywhere b) forget to macro but your units pop up in 5 seconds anyways instead of 20+ for the rest of us and c) the total time to build a unit is LESS than normal?
It's like you think warpgates are the base unit when gateways fucking are. It's an upgrade.
The entire reason you guys shouldn't be complaining is that your downsides are completely offset by your upsides. You keep arguing like all the upsides don't even exist.
I'm done with this thread. If you can't even understand something this simple then it's not worth my time. Probably not even worth my time in the first place to argue this.
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mm agree, it's a bit weird to give it exclusively to toss. I mean their building units mechanic is a bit harder to manage though, but I think making hatches get the same thing would make inject larvae a lot more simple, while still not making it way to easy.
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Holy shit this thread is still open???????
Anyways, I can't believe people are comparing this shit to spawn larva or mules.
Chrono Boost/Spawn Larva/Mule's are the macro mechanics. Not warpgates.
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On September 11 2010 23:24 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Holy shit this thread is still open???????
Anyways, I can't believe people are comparing this shit to spawn larva or mules.
Chrono Boost/Spawn Larva/Mule's are the macro mechanics. Not warpgates.
But what does that exactly matter? It's greater function is to say "hey your production building is idle nab!", just like it could do with inject larvae. I think it would standardize inject a bit more, where it would feel less like a chore, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect all players to have 80+% effectiveness of them.
Edit: This is coming from T mind.
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On September 11 2010 23:36 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 23:24 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Holy shit this thread is still open???????
Anyways, I can't believe people are comparing this shit to spawn larva or mules.
Chrono Boost/Spawn Larva/Mule's are the macro mechanics. Not warpgates. But what does that exactly matter? It's greater function is to say "hey your production building is idle nab!", just like it could do with inject larvae. I think it would standardize inject a bit more, where it would feel less like a chore, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect all players to have 80+% effectiveness of them. Edit: This is coming from T mind.
It's not really like it screams it at you. I know I NEVER EVER check that number. Like everything else in the game you learn to time it out in your head.
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On September 11 2010 23:39 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 23:36 Zarahtra wrote:On September 11 2010 23:24 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Holy shit this thread is still open???????
Anyways, I can't believe people are comparing this shit to spawn larva or mules.
Chrono Boost/Spawn Larva/Mule's are the macro mechanics. Not warpgates. But what does that exactly matter? It's greater function is to say "hey your production building is idle nab!", just like it could do with inject larvae. I think it would standardize inject a bit more, where it would feel less like a chore, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect all players to have 80+% effectiveness of them. Edit: This is coming from T mind. It's not really like it screams it at you. I know I NEVER EVER check that number. Like everything else in the game you learn to time it out in your head.
It wouldn't scream it at the zerg player either. It does however give toss an option to see the timings freely from that button, be it if you use it or not.
Arguments have been that toss has different mechanics in spawning units than either race and has to move away from combat to macro up more units. Well inject larvae is the same thing, it is required to macro up the zerg army and while there is a way to do it while watching the battle, most z that I have read replies from have to switch camera to their hatch since it's more reliable. Hence that argument doesn't really hold vs zerg(but does vs terran).
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On September 11 2010 23:17 King K. Rool wrote:
It's like you think warpgates are the base unit when gateways fucking are. It's an upgrade.
warpgates are the base, the game is not balanced around gateways.
if a toss does not get warpgates ASAP, his army will be ~25% smaller because of the longer build time of gateways and as a result of that, will get steamrolled by Terra/Zerg or a toss with warpgates.
it is not a upgrade to make it better, it is a necessary to bring toss unit production to a comparable and balanced level with terran and Zerg.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Sure lets make the easiest thing with Starcraft in its name that ever existed even easier.
Good idea.
Like, seriously.
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its just more noob-friendly
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another thread full of racial imbalance whiners, seriously let it go
unless you're like 1600+ diamond (i don't even know), odds are you're losing because you are not playing correctly, not because you're better than the person who beat you with an OP race
I play random so I don't really favor one race or another, but every game I've lost I've been able to pinpoint mistakes in MY gameplay, not just whine about imbalance like a child
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It is balanced though.
The Terran unit production is based around classic queueing and unit production buildings. In order to have them constantly producing, you just have to queue units, and overlap building times. In order to constantly produce units, overlapping units in production ensures your building is always busy.
The Zerg buildings, on the other hand, constantly produce larva. So while they have to be vigilent in making sure they are keeping it below the 3 larva point, they still have the leeway of the fact that they can instantly use up the larva, if they need it. Also, there is the fact that injections add up, but that should only factor in low level play.
Now we look at warpgates. The leeway given by warpgates is that units made are warped in instantly. However, the key problem is that in order to keep your buildings producing constantly, you have to vigelently watch their cooldown, and warp in units the second the cooldown wears off. no matter how you look at it, every second that you see a 1, 2, or 3+ on the lower right of your screen as toss, is a second permanantly lost of production. Then there is the factor that, unlike the other two races, you must move into your base, and manually create every unit you make. You cannot just spam AAAAAAAA to make units out of 8 barracks, you must click on the field on pylon powered locations, and importantly, wait until the unit finishes warping in before you can use them.
My Point: The toss have an auto-hotkey, not because they don't know how to press ctrl+6, but because they need the visual counter on the lower right showing inactive warpgates. Much like the Zerg's unforgiving Injection mechanics, Not using warpgates the second they become avaliable is macro lost, that can't be taken back. And time spent warping in units and waiting for them to complete is time not spent doing infinitely many other things in the game of innumerable tasks you can do in a match.
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Let us queue up warp ins and then we can get rid of the "w" group.
Seriously, protoss has to warp in on or near the CD, whereas other races queue things up when they're affordable.
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On September 11 2010 16:44 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 16:29 Techno wrote:On September 11 2010 02:49 andeh wrote:
There should be a larva inject cool down.
Toss get warpgate cooldown
Terran gets idle worker button
Where is the zerg love? o_o Don't they all get idle worker button? Isnt any build time a "cooldown" Yea I dont understand why there is a select all warpgates button every fucking thread gets derailed into race fanboyism. I blame zerg. lol. The problem is that every zerg on the planet who sucks ass at this game thinks they are pro like IdrA and make balance complaints as if they had the knowledge/skill that IdrA does. I'm glad players like IdrA are vocal about their concerns with the game but maybe we could get IdrA to control these zerglings (or dimaga/cella) They think b/c they play zerg they are somehow better and almost have an elitist attitude about it. My race is SOOO hard and you are SOOO noob. I mean they do have legit concerns regarding Terran but it overspills into stupid garbage like this. Even if the OP isn't a troll this attitude is very common from what I've seen. Maybe its just general forum idiocy since SC2 is getting more popular there are just more idiots posting. Either way I won't "bump" this thread again if I can help it.
The problem is most people are now finding that they can use the "Zerg players are all QQing" thing as a crutch, basically giving them the ability to not put much effort on the original idea of the thread but basically saying "Stop qqing."
Well gratz bro you are mega pro.
All aboard the Thread Train though, I don't really have a problem with all Warpgates being tied to "W." I mean OBVIOUSLY this does make Protoss Easier to play, but not by much, you could just tie all your warpgates to 4 or something.
Should they do they same for Barracks/Larvae? I think so, but I doubt they will 
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On September 11 2010 02:43 kamicom wrote:
Warpgate in itself is an amazing technology which is why it's appealing as the predominant race. Hypothetically speaking, why can't barracks or hatcheries have the same function?
"W" key for warpgates isn't imba... U can mark multiple wg/rax/fact/hatch and press for example ctrl+5. Now it looks like "W" key for wg/rax/fac/hatch 
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EPT
