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+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2010 06:59 Snowfield wrote:
I was so dissapointed with the casting when they missed two BC rushes in a row, first game they didnt even show us the starport.
I think they do a decent job, but keep the production tab up, press V if you want to see the players perspective if you wonder if he saw something or not, dont go to his FP view, and try to pay closer attention to the builds, as that's what's the most interesting
Artosis: you have to stop talking about SCBW, stop saying "we can see this is a scbw player" as you rip on everyone who wasn't a scbw pro, this is a new game, don't go on about scbw things.
Also, stop talking about what you would've done, it's really unprofessional and it's not giving us any more information about the game that is going on, never talk about what he should be doing, just talk abotu what they are doing and what direction they could go in, when they take another direction then what you thought, stop talking about the other direction and focus on the direction the game is currently going in.
edit: also, you can't blink stalkers to teh island on scrap station, this was patched ages ago.
also; the handsome comments about you both can get a bit much.
All in all, focus on the players, not you.
Pretty much sums it up for me.
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I don't think you people know what you want. You refer to husky and day9 as being somehow better casters but then you say that tastosis are still fun to watch, I don't get it. If someone for his first time tunes in to a soccer match, assuming he knows nothing about the rules or how the game flows, there is very little chance the commentator is going to explain what the rules are during the game, so many people watching socces for years till don't know what offside is. Granted soccer and sc2 are two different things, I think tasteless and artosis are trying to play of each other and don't go into these mindboggling, super-complex strategies because let's be honest no1 gives a shit and you can never predict 100% what the person is going to do. I also don't really see the point of telling us what the possible build follow-up could be for certain player in every single game, that just gets too repetitive.
I also do not want them to try and imitate koreans, it just doesn't fit in with their images.
Some people are making comments about their humor, sorry to burst your bubble but day9 also has a running joke about him not wearing pants while casting sc2, oh yeah that's infinitely more funny.
I also do not understand the whole buzz about APM, I really don't. On korean stream they often show players APM in the beginning of the game... what's the point? All these folks have is 6 workers and 1 command center/nexus/hatchery I don't give a shit about their APM at this moment. Frankly I don't even want to know their final APM, the result is what matters. All these apm and production tab things are left for replays so that you can figure out exactly what's happening, during live games it's impossible to follow everything, and there should be no attempts to be everywhere at the same time. That being said, yes they should use these tools but not overuse them just because some of you want that.
Lastly someone mentioned background checks? Lol, I don't know how you are gonna do a background check of people who don't speak your language first of all, and most of them just come from the ladder, they are not pro's. And I actualy like the information artosis provides about some of the players because he has played them on the ladder or talked to them before, so I don't even know where you guys are getting that "they are unprepared" shit from.
Obviously there are things that can be improved on, and 2 major ones atm are the camera control + the whole zoom in zoom out thing and the names of units/spells from BW instead of SC2.
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Tasteless is definitely better than Day9/HD/Husky and when you add in Artosis, they're in a completely different league.
Not to mention people outside of TL can actually stand listening Tasteless, which can't be said for Day9, sadly.
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On September 11 2010 03:18 AntiGrav1ty wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2010 06:59 Snowfield wrote:
I was so dissapointed with the casting when they missed two BC rushes in a row, first game they didnt even show us the starport.
I think they do a decent job, but keep the production tab up, press V if you want to see the players perspective if you wonder if he saw something or not, dont go to his FP view, and try to pay closer attention to the builds, as that's what's the most interesting
Artosis: you have to stop talking about SCBW, stop saying "we can see this is a scbw player" as you rip on everyone who wasn't a scbw pro, this is a new game, don't go on about scbw things.
Also, stop talking about what you would've done, it's really unprofessional and it's not giving us any more information about the game that is going on, never talk about what he should be doing, just talk abotu what they are doing and what direction they could go in, when they take another direction then what you thought, stop talking about the other direction and focus on the direction the game is currently going in.
edit: also, you can't blink stalkers to teh island on scrap station, this was patched ages ago.
also; the handsome comments about you both can get a bit much.
All in all, focus on the players, not you. Pretty much sums it up for me.
I would like to second this.
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They are doing an awesome job overall, I could use a few less jokes from tasteless though he's awesome just the way it is, the match is still the most important thing. Some people are complaining about Artosis comparing Sc2 to bw and how he talks about what the players could be doing, I disagree with the complaints and I think it is very educational talking about possible scenarios and I also think that comparing the 2 games is realistically UNAVOIDABLE.
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I think Tasteless & Artosis are doing great and considering they just started things can only get better from here.
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I had posted earlier in the thread a lot of the constructive criticism's that have been rehashed over and over. I'd just like to add that I thought last nights cast (day6?) with TLO was a very solid improvement. You could tell they have read the feedback from here and gomtv.net. They were very prepared discussing the players and their strategies and overall it felt very professional.
Great improvement keep it up guys, I would not take any other casters over Tastosis.
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On September 11 2010 07:00 fnaticAugury wrote:
Tasteless is definitely better than Day9/HD/Husky and when you add in Artosis, they're in a completely different league.
Not to mention people outside of TL can actually stand listening Tasteless, which can't be said for Day9, sadly.
Good thing that's only your opinion. Since when do people speak for other people? ._.
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On September 11 2010 02:42 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 02:40 torm3ntin wrote:On September 11 2010 02:27 Chill wrote:On September 11 2010 02:24 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On September 11 2010 02:22 Chill wrote:
To be fair, I don't want something like Day[9]'s in-depth explanations casting the GSL. That has a place in his dailies and no place (for me) in something like the GSL. I prefer closer to Tastosis' style.
The worst for me is when something crazy is happening and I can actually hear the Koreans screaming in the background. Double agreed. They need to figure out how to stop the Korean commentators from coming through the mic. It's SUPER annoying. If you listen to Day9 closely you will notice his styles for doing his daily's and his style for live casting are very different. I for one am glad for this, as his style for daily's would not work very well for live events. Yea, of course. Day[9] is smart and can change his style easily. My comment isn't in reference to him. It's the people who cite "Day[9] would say this and this and this" without realizing that he actually would never say that in a cast like the GSL. My Korean comment means it sucks because it reminds me how calm Tastosis are when I can hear the Koreans screaming in the background over the calm English casters. And as soon as they star screaming like the koreans, this forum is gonna be flooded with ppl complaining they shouldn't scream like that hehehehehe It's true - You can't win in the cold game of video game nerd commentary  The best you can do is just barely lose.
You were always a winner in my book Chill. (And DJWheat loved ya  )
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The most important thing to improve is the observer control. If this is not possible, please let the koreans do it to give you some room to breathe. This was one thing i loved about the very smooth bw observers. Please bring that back.
I wont commentate on the commentators. They are both great guys. Tasteless, please be the "Storm Observer" once again. Feel the game. Commentate with your heart. That's what we love about you!
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We tend to reject change, rather then embrace it.
I feel like a lot of people laying down heavy criticism are new players who have not seen tasteless cast a bw game. I feel like they aren't even giving them a chance, and blindly rejecting them.
I sincerely hope that from all of these complaints and tips, Tastosis are able to sift through the haters and find something useful.
In my own opinion I think that:
- Zooming in can be used, but at times can be annoying
- Brood war references are very effective if explained to the new viewers
- Observation tools could be used more frequently and naturally
- Player builds are explained well, and key alterations are caught and commented on (gas before rax for example)
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Like a lot of people have been saying, the production tab is super important, or at least an overlook of their bases every once in a while. I remember both those BC rushes were missed until the Terran actually had the BC close to the opponents base. The fusion core shouldn't be that hard to spot.
Either way, Tastosis are great, you just need better observing, sticking a bit more to what's happening in the game and perhaps a bit more enthusiasm.
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On September 11 2010 07:44 Jayson X wrote:
The most important thing to improve is the observer control. If this is not possible, please let the koreans do it to give you some room to breathe. This was one thing i loved about the very smooth bw observers. Please bring that back.
I wont commentate on the commentators. They are both great guys. Tasteless, please be the "Storm Observer" once again. Feel the game. Commentate with your heart. That's what we love about you!
I would like to also emphasize the best thing I found from the korean cast (since I don't speak korean and besides the yelling) is the observer control. In fact the great observer control is what made it so great despite not knowing the language!! Check economy every now and then, don't miss tech path, use player POV, get a nice scan of the battles, also maybe have another go-to phrase besides "WHOAAA" that is a bit more descriptive? Such as "STORMUUU!!" ? :D
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Kind of thought about it and i have to say i really, really like how the casts go. It's pretty informative of actual strategies, there are some jokes in, they seem to come up with new things to say everyday (i mean they don't use the same phrases all the time) and overall can keep the comments coming even when there are few things to comment.
If i had to say something was wrong, i would like to see more of the overlay thingie used more. When i last watched it was mostly production tab and rarely anything else.
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Calgary26003 Posts
Ah I listened to the more recent casts today... I was almost a week behind I think. It's getting so much better.
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On September 11 2010 08:30 Chill wrote:
Ah I listened to the more recent casts today... I was almost a week behind I think. It's getting so much better.
I like to propose a technique to improve up on the already awesome job you 2 are doing.
a tension building technique in observing, right before a drop or some game changing event ganna happen, for example right before a DT drop, or right before 2 force engage, the observer switches the 1st player's first person views, and then 2nd player's first person view, and when the event takes places and the fighting and killing starts you switch back into observer view.
and the reason this build tension is to emphasize on what each player don't know but we as the audiences have perfect information on. This technique is widely apply in many movies, for example Jaw, the shaq is comming, camera shows the victim carelessly doing their thing, and then zooms in the shaq with the stalking music, and then the kill scene.
PS. oh this would be great scene for burrow moving roaches to get in position right before the fight
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Compared to 99% of all other caster right now including myself, these are superior. I cant complain.
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On September 11 2010 07:18 Pufftrees wrote:
I had posted earlier in the thread a lot of the constructive criticism's that have been rehashed over and over. I'd just like to add that I thought last nights cast (day6?) with TLO was a very solid improvement. You could tell they have read the feedback from here and gomtv.net. They were very prepared discussing the players and their strategies and overall it felt very professional.
Great improvement keep it up guys, I would not take any other casters over Tastosis.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. I am now looking forward to the finals being cast by them. If they keep improving at the rate they currently are... well, I'm hyped.
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The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
In short: act more professional, please. Getting paid doesn't make you a professional - your conduct does.
I think Tasteless fills a similar role that JP does: the one who commentates the majority of the action, follows the flow. Artosis should be interjecting more about the strategy rather than going on about some small talk. Sure, especially at the start, have the little joke or whatever but don't drag it out. Make it very brief.
I'd like to see Tasteless take the reigns, and then bring in Artosis more. Pre-game, post-game, rather than it sounding like a conversation between friends (which Artosis never seems quite comfortable letting someone else just talk, but whatever) try and make it so that the main commentator - Tasteless - is positioning and setting things up for Artosis to knock it out of the park.
Tasteless should frame the action, Artosis should tell us how the players got there mentally and where we're headed. Try not to be too negative:
I don't know about this strategy - as opposed to - I don't like this
or
He's in a lot of trouble - as opposed to - it's definitely GG here
Maybe in general try and make Artosis sound more humble, or if that's not the route you want to go then try and make sure Tasteless deliberately leaves a situation for Artosis to come into the action, raise his voice (he does this really well, something that makes the cast much much much better to watch) and then blast away for a little.
Just some thoughts IMO; don't take them to heart or anything. You guys are obviously doing really well already, or you wouldn't have been offered a job.
Artosis/Tasteless fighting~
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I say keep doing what you're doing. You're obviously having fun doing what you like and that makes it 100x as much fun for me, the watcher.
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EPT
