EPTp.s. I hope I don't get warned for this. Actually trying to help
In Bronze, trends are emerging - Page 9
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
p.s. I hope I don't get warned for this. Actually trying to help | ||
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OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
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abrasion
Australia722 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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piegasm
United States266 Posts
On September 01 2010 14:12 DarthGoose wrote: Haha, I had a match around thirty bronze that my opponent was favored in. His build wast a 12ish expand and rush to dual port battle cruisers with ups without ever making a single non-worker unit before the battle cruisers. I think I was rated even against my guy who was top-ish bronze. I've also had people build nothing but void rays. I've run into more than one BC rush but those opponents all built at least some lower tier units along the way. Why are so many people warned for their post on the front page and not being insulting and just offering help? Is it some kind of joke? For the same reason you don't already know the answer to that question: because they couldn't be arsed to read the OP or the rest of the thread. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On September 01 2010 18:43 pantaray wrote: I am also in top Bronze, I have around 200 games. I am 29 years old. I have medium experience in all sorts of computer games. I reflect some insights of the OP by myself. Its either very cheesy (with backup-strategies too!) or very turtling. Here is a replay of me. When its so easy to get into diamond just with one BO. then plays watch it and tell me where my sticking point of play is. You can also watch my opponent and spot some sticking points of him too. I think it doesnt matter who is winning the game, because issues might be spotable anyway. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/69485-1v1-terran-protoss-kulasklamm Looking forward for your insights, greetings from the bronze-ladder. The 2 absolutely most important things you should try to do is: 1. Don't stop making probes, until you're maxed. The easiest way to know how much probes you have is to press ctrl and click on one probe, it will select all your probes on the screen except the ones in your assimilators. If it's a full page of probes, that means you have 26 total, which is enough for one base. 2. Use up all your resources, do not let them pile up. In that particular game you often delayed queueing probes without a reason for it. You queued your 8th probe when you already had 100 minerals(should do it as soon as you have 50), you stayed at 16 probes until you had 300 minerals in the bank, you stayed at 18 probes until you had 650 minerals in the bank, e.t.c. You just have to get used to constantly making probes and you have nothing else to do right at the start anyway. The standard timing for your first pylon is when you're at 9/10 supply. That's enough of a build order at that level, since you're not used to following builds and it may seem tedious and not fun and it's better to understand why and how they work first, instead of just blindly using one over and over. From then on you should try to keep constant attention to your resource count and use up all your resources, while constantly building probes and pylons as necessary. Controlling 4 stalkers is less important then making 10 new ones with the resources you have in the bank. You should prioritize. At your level making more units is much more important than controling them, so keep an eye on your resource count at all times and make sure you're producing new workers and combat units. If you don't want your units to be lured into the enemy tanks, use hold position and then react when you get the you're under attack warning message. This way you won't have to do anything against his attempts to lure your units, while otherwise you would have to pull them back every single time and they will also suffer hits from the tanks, until you react. In that game if you haven't spent the time to run your stalkers/void rays back and forth, but instead used that time to build more zealots or stalkers and simply attack-moved them, you would've won easily at that point in the game. This brings me to my next point... Use attack-move. Press A on the keyboard and left click behind the enemy forces. You ran your army right next to the enemy units several times, while this should not happen. A range upgraded colossus should not get hit by turrets, since he has a longer range. Sometimes you had some of your units attacking, while the others just sat there, and this should not happen, as well. You also had 4 bases, but made a total of 36 probes. That's simply not enough, you should have around 26 per base and up to 60-70 total, so you can have enough spare supply for your army. | ||
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Stuv
Netherlands942 Posts
EDIT: Oops wrong thread sozz. | ||
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tomc
United States84 Posts
I still feel like in the lower leagues (I used to always be stuck in high ranked silver) the only thing people didn't get was how to react to unexpected situations. Weird stuff you don't see often ya lose to. Like on Steppes of War when a terran rushes a planetary fortress at YOUR natural expansion. That shit is pretty incredible! Or having a massive amount of void rays which you can easily defend against with your thors, but to throw dark templars with them in which you have no detectors, or the units ready to fight them when they reached your mineral line. Keep at it man. Speed is a big issue. Micro isn't important either. Just mass up and be as fast as possible! | ||
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wollhandkrabbe
Germany97 Posts
Also keep in mind most players play for fun. And I don't think I`m the only one who thinks fun does not necessarily equal choosing one race, one BO, practicing nonstop and winning boring games rather than trying unconventional stuff, relying on ingame decisionmaking and losing exciting games. | ||
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pikkumyy
Finland58 Posts
I am stuck on bronze as well. All these comments about "check day9 and watch a couple of replays" are just bull. I have watched dozens of dailies from day9 (and have gotten several good points that certainly have improved my vision of the game) as well as checked a lot of replays. I have over 15 years of background in competetive online gaming (fps games only) with some playing around of rts such as c&c, supcom and so. I too was expecting the lower level play to be "DURR what does this button do" but no, in the rare exception that I'm not cheesed with one or another strategy that totally screws up any attempt to maintain a specific plan or build order (that I've tried to mimic from those replays and videos) then it's an attack that I would have to really have microing skills and the sorts to handle. The entry level for SC2 seems really a steep ladder to climb. I mean, checking the documentation in terms of replays and various commentators, doing training with builds (with yabot and the likes) and really learning to optimise to shave a few seconds off from this and that doesn't seem to be enough. Please, have some respect towards your fellow gamers that are trying to have fun and improve instead of bashing them with those lame "lol bronze" comments. Thank you. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On September 01 2010 20:42 pikkumyy wrote: I have read some posts on TL but this one was the one that made me register in order to reply. I am stuck on bronze as well. All these comments about "check day9 and watch a couple of replays" are just bull. I have watched dozens of dailies from day9 (and have gotten several good points that certainly have improved my vision of the game) as well as checked a lot of replays. I have over 15 years of background in competetive online gaming (fps games only) with some playing around of rts such as c&c, supcom and so. I too was expecting the lower level play to be "DURR what does this button do" but no, in the rare exception that I'm not cheesed with one or another strategy that totally screws up any attempt to maintain a specific plan or build order (that I've tried to mimic from those replays and videos) then it's an attack that I would have to really have microing skills and the sorts to handle. The entry level for SC2 seems really a steep ladder to climb. I mean, checking the documentation in terms of replays and various commentators, doing training with builds (with yabot and the likes) and really learning to optimise to shave a few seconds off from this and that doesn't seem to be enough. Please, have some respect towards your fellow gamers that are trying to have fun and improve instead of bashing them with those lame "lol bronze" comments. Thank you. You're going completely in the wrong direction. You should most definitely NOT be trying to optimize builds and you should most definitely NOT try to maintain a specific build regardless of circumstances. The first one is not worth it at your level, and the second one is plain bad, because you should be reacting to your opponent. If you're in bronze your errors are much more basic. You're not constatnly producing workers, you're not constantly spending your resources and you're not scouting/don't know how to respond to the enemy. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On September 01 2010 20:42 pikkumyy wrote: I have read some posts on TL but this one was the one that made me register in order to reply. I am stuck on bronze as well. All these comments about "check day9 and watch a couple of replays" are just bull. I have watched dozens of dailies from day9 (and have gotten several good points that certainly have improved my vision of the game) as well as checked a lot of replays. I have over 15 years of background in competetive online gaming (fps games only) with some playing around of rts such as c&c, supcom and so. I too was expecting the lower level play to be "DURR what does this button do" but no, in the rare exception that I'm not cheesed with one or another strategy that totally screws up any attempt to maintain a specific plan or build order (that I've tried to mimic from those replays and videos) then it's an attack that I would have to really have microing skills and the sorts to handle. The entry level for SC2 seems really a steep ladder to climb. I mean, checking the documentation in terms of replays and various commentators, doing training with builds (with yabot and the likes) and really learning to optimise to shave a few seconds off from this and that doesn't seem to be enough. Please, have some respect towards your fellow gamers that are trying to have fun and improve instead of bashing them with those lame "lol bronze" comments. Thank you. I think many newbies are too focused on watching replays and dailies, reading too much on these forums etc. If you just get the basic mechanics down, you'll be out of Bronze in no time... hell, I played like 10 games in the beta and I won all my placement matches outright when the game was released, and I'm quite horrible. All you really have to do is go for a standard build and focus 100% on macro. When you have a decent mid-game composition, push and win. Not bashing you for being in bronze, just saying that it's not really about the game being hard, it's about focusing on the right things. To do Pro tactics you see in replays, you have to have your mechanics down 100% already. Shaving of a few seconds and such things are the stuff you learn to do in Diamond league, in Bronze it should all be about making units from all structures all the time and keeping money low. Doing that alone should get you out of bronze in no-time, regardless of build order or tactic. | ||
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LoyalOath
United States14 Posts
Hopefully with the stuff i've seen in this thread, i can help my friend out a bit more because he does really want to improve and knowing the trends will hopefully force him to expand more and work on his playstyle. Also, its really sad to see everyone hating on the bronze players because sometimes they do very amazing plays it's just they don't have it planned out and it is a bit haphazard but if 40% of people are in bronze league, not all of them can be completely terrible at the game. starcraft is not something easy to get into at first. Anyways, thank you OP for this insight, because I do find it interesting that bronze league is different from when I saw it. Hopefully it continues to develop into some two base play or something like that, and continues from there. | ||
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Malabyte
Norway75 Posts
On September 01 2010 20:13 wollhandkrabbe wrote: I agree with all the warnings. It seriously damages my view of TL if casual Bronze players are treated without respect. If you think the OPs thoughts are worthless, just don't answer ffs. How exactly are those posts disrespectful? They simply state that certain things are true for Bronze League that aren't found at higher leagues. It has nothing to do with the OP, personally. On September 01 2010 12:16 Kolvacs wrote: Not to be a douche or anything, but it's bronze league. I'm not sure what your expecting. User was warned for this post Is it offensive to state the obvious, that Bronze League isn't a level where you'd expect a lot of skill? This is a statistical fact of life. Instead, maybe people should instead stop being so embarassed about having poor skill. I'm a crappy player myself, macro-wise. Should people be warned every time they point out that I'm a poor macro-player? It's a fact, not an attempt at insult - unless they use a language that is clearly offensive. On September 01 2010 12:15 dacthehork wrote: How can you sound this intelligent and be stuck in bronze? I understand being in bronze if you are new, but if you spend some time watching replays (and copying) you should be out in no time. Even without any apm/mechanics. Honestly just find a good build order for each match up and refine it in practice games against comp until you can decently execute it. Then do it over and over in bronze and you will be out in no time. User was warned for this post He's giving the OP both a compliment and a useful tip, and he's being warned for it? On September 01 2010 12:26 Vz0 wrote: agree. dont want to be the "diamond pro" laughing at the "bronze noobs" but most people at bronze are not very efficient and unelss we are given a replay we seriously can't judge anything. There could be heavy macro mistakes in both parties that lead to an obscured gameplay. User was warned for this post Again, this guy is stating a neutral fact about Bronze. Most Bronze players are not very efficient, or else they wouldn't be in Bronze. It's not an insult, it's an explanation to what Bronze League actually is. I'm sorry, I just wanna know how people think. Is there some channel to use to give moderators feedback on how they handle things in this forum? I respect the rules of this forum and the moderators' words are final, but I also feel it's important to point out how ridiculous this seems. I would like to ask the owner of this website how much he moderates his own moderators, whenever they cross the line. Again, not meant as insurrection, but if individual moderators go unchecked by their peers, then that can and will have some negative effects on this website's infrastructure. Suddenly people are afraid of discussing things, I mean. The fact of the matter is that Starcraft 2 strategy is often about getting a personal reality check. Why are we not getting any better? Do people really want an answer or are we just pretending to care about it? Just think it's strange, especially since a couple of disgusting, gay-bashing posts in "Gay Starcraft Players" have gone completely unwarned. Suggestion: Maybe the webmaster could add a more democratic system with a +/- function for each post, similar to what they have at Youtube.com. A general warning might not always "hit home", because people might not always see the logic of that warn. But if forumers themselves can, plurally, give a "score" to the posts, then maybe that reflect a little more accurately how offensive the posts really are. After all, what is offensive and not can actually be highly subjective. Thanks! User was warned for this post | ||
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Drteeth
Great Britain415 Posts
On September 01 2010 13:14 Vz0 wrote: errrr you played 100 games and you were still in copper? -__________-" ! I don't think your the same "gamer" as the rest of us. User was warned for this post God the stench of elitism is rank in here! | ||
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Aurious
Canada1772 Posts
 ps love all these warnings keep up the good work, and good luck with your gaming OP | ||
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Inkarnate
Canada840 Posts
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Malabyte
Norway75 Posts
On September 01 2010 21:32 Inkarnate wrote: A lot of the campaign missions consist of you defending until you have a large enough army to push out and complete the objectives, this may contribute to the fact that newer players like to play safe. I agree, the campaign is highly biased by design, towards one type of play. Naturally, this will be what people get used to. Ultimately, in order to rise in League, it's all about getting the knowledge, understanding and practice outside of the campaign - although the campaign is in no way unusable for this. | ||
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
I find it interesting to hear about the game's development, it happening in bronze isn't any less worth than diamond to me. If these standard strategies develop, then you should have a pretty nice learning path ahead of you. Practicing against the same build order a lot is always good, when you find a good counter to it you'll sky rocket out of bronze !GL Hf! | ||
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Jonray
United States37 Posts
The reason is simple. If I tried to execute the simple "core" build orders for Protoss, 5 out of 6 games I'd lose to a Zerg player with a 6 pool or a Terran with a proxy Rax right outside my base. By walling off my ramp with a gateway and a couple pylons (and a zealot or two in front of the wall), I actually have a chance to play a full game. And what I've found is that if I can negate the early all-in rush to win, then my opponent often doesn't know enough about the macro game to beat me. My win percentage has gone up quite a bit once I started this opening strategy. To be clear: I'm not asking for suggestions either. I read TL forums and watch casts most of the day at work (the joys of working on a computer service desk ... lots of dead time between trouble tickets). And my mechanics are getting better. I figure my biggest issue in not moving up more quickly is that I can only play 1-3 games a night; so it takes a while to learn how to put what I know into practice. I just wanted to give some perspective to the OP on why some of us have learned to wall off right away and why his early rushes aren't being as successful as they used to be. It's how we've learned to survive. | ||
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The_Pacifist
United States540 Posts
I'm glad that the skill floor in multiplayer is rising. It means that by the time the next ladder reset happens (or if it happens), the higher leagues will be a greater goal to work towards. Many of the people in the higher leagues now entered those leagues when most players were probably still playing single player, so it was much easier back then. It might be a different story next time. | ||
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