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On August 29 2010 06:18 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 06:03 hadoken5 wrote:On August 29 2010 06:00 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 05:54 vyyye wrote:On August 29 2010 05:50 Deadlyfish wrote:
You dont like MMM? I dont like zerg strategy. Mainly because all they have are like 5 units. Thats it.
Every zerg starts out with zerglings, maybe a few banelings. Then he either goes roach or muta. Rarely goes hydra. Late game it's pretty much the same, maybe even a few corrupters.
Same thing.
What the fuck? A zerg player doesn't have the option to go for any other units early game, as that's all the units he has. How is that the same thing? He said Terran was boring to watch, i said Zerg was boring to watch. Obviously, both statements are an exaggeration. No there is a difference to that. Terran is boring to watch because it pursues a single strategy all game long(as was shown in the MLG). Zerg may be boring to watch for you because you simply don't understand it or you may feel that they do the same thing over and over again, when really, all they're doing is reacting. You're saying that all Terran ever does is MMM? Why do siege tanks need to be nerfed then? I rarely see Terran go MMM vs another Terran or a zerg. I simply just dont see the problem.
because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser).
and if you watch any vods/reps of the last 1-2 weeks youll notice that bio dominates all matchups.
its rauder + few tanks/vikings/banshees tvt
bio + tanks tvz
pure bio spam + maybe ghosts tvp
but game is still still changing on a weekly basis. fotw is played 100% in current tournaments. add the maps that promote gimmick/very aggressive/allin play and you have the tournaments we have now.
that said its still hugely entertaining and if people werent such crybabies there we wouldnt have to deal with all the terrible balance tears and complains.
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I hate when people say "Oh just use unit a and b to counter it, duh..." when those units are T3 and the T1 MM with fast and cheap upgrades is constantly knocking you. How do you tech to T3+ when the T has a full tech and army pumping out at the beginning of the game? Oh yeah just wall in... Or... Wait, thats Terran too.
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I found it to be pretty good actually. I liked IEM a lot more but that's just maybe because I'm more familiar with those players because I have watched them from bw.
In MLG I only really knew Tyler and Incontrol. But even so they are quite enjoyable and love for Day9 and JP 
Also HuskyHD isn't bad at all. People complained lack of protoss in IEM so here you have lots of protoss players, enjoy!
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Idk I have found alot of the sets to be great. Go check out drewbie vs Socke and Gretorp vs Silver was pretty awesom aswell.
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Nope. MLG has been great.
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I <3 MLG, but all of these PvP's and PvT's have gotten extremely boring. I've gradually started to ignore the stream as the tournament has progressed.
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why all this terran imba cry when 3 of the 4 semifinalists are protoss and the finals is PvP. i just don't understand it. at this rate, i think the only thing T should have are scvs because everything else is imba. make too many reapers and it's imba. make too many MM and it's imba. make too many tanks and it's op.
maybe scvs vs ultras will be balanced.
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On August 29 2010 06:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser).
I died a little on the inside.
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MLG has been fun. There were quite a few delays, but that's fine for the first one.
I loved IEM more, but MLG is still great. Just a personal preference.
Maybe trying to fit in a few more games for the next event would go a long way.
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On August 29 2010 06:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 06:18 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 06:03 hadoken5 wrote:On August 29 2010 06:00 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 05:54 vyyye wrote:On August 29 2010 05:50 Deadlyfish wrote:
You dont like MMM? I dont like zerg strategy. Mainly because all they have are like 5 units. Thats it.
Every zerg starts out with zerglings, maybe a few banelings. Then he either goes roach or muta. Rarely goes hydra. Late game it's pretty much the same, maybe even a few corrupters.
Same thing.
What the fuck? A zerg player doesn't have the option to go for any other units early game, as that's all the units he has. How is that the same thing? He said Terran was boring to watch, i said Zerg was boring to watch. Obviously, both statements are an exaggeration. No there is a difference to that. Terran is boring to watch because it pursues a single strategy all game long(as was shown in the MLG). Zerg may be boring to watch for you because you simply don't understand it or you may feel that they do the same thing over and over again, when really, all they're doing is reacting. You're saying that all Terran ever does is MMM? Why do siege tanks need to be nerfed then? I rarely see Terran go MMM vs another Terran or a zerg. I simply just dont see the problem. because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser). and if you watch any vods/reps of the last 1-2 weeks youll notice that bio dominates all matchups. its rauder + few tanks/vikings/banshees tvt bio + tanks tvz pure bio spam + maybe ghosts tvp
For every game i've ever played and watched, by far the most would go like this:
TvT: tank/viking maybe banshee, few marauders or thors/bc's sometimes.
TvZ: Mech. Early hellion into tank/thor/hellion/viking just anything besides Bio.
TvP: This is MMM + ghost for sure, not gonna argue with that.
Doesnt mean i havent seen alot of MMM games, but i dont think that MMM is somehow dominant amongst the matchups. Tanks are the biggest problem with terran, and they have now been nerfed, so lets be thankful for that
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On August 29 2010 06:29 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 06:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On August 29 2010 06:18 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 06:03 hadoken5 wrote:On August 29 2010 06:00 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 05:54 vyyye wrote:On August 29 2010 05:50 Deadlyfish wrote:
You dont like MMM? I dont like zerg strategy. Mainly because all they have are like 5 units. Thats it.
Every zerg starts out with zerglings, maybe a few banelings. Then he either goes roach or muta. Rarely goes hydra. Late game it's pretty much the same, maybe even a few corrupters.
Same thing.
What the fuck? A zerg player doesn't have the option to go for any other units early game, as that's all the units he has. How is that the same thing? He said Terran was boring to watch, i said Zerg was boring to watch. Obviously, both statements are an exaggeration. No there is a difference to that. Terran is boring to watch because it pursues a single strategy all game long(as was shown in the MLG). Zerg may be boring to watch for you because you simply don't understand it or you may feel that they do the same thing over and over again, when really, all they're doing is reacting. You're saying that all Terran ever does is MMM? Why do siege tanks need to be nerfed then? I rarely see Terran go MMM vs another Terran or a zerg. I simply just dont see the problem. because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser). and if you watch any vods/reps of the last 1-2 weeks youll notice that bio dominates all matchups. its rauder + few tanks/vikings/banshees tvt bio + tanks tvz pure bio spam + maybe ghosts tvp For every game i've ever played and watched, by far the most would go like this: TvT: tank/viking maybe banshee, few marauders or thors/bc's sometimes. TvZ: Mech. Early hellion into tank/thor/hellion/viking just anything besides Bio. TvP: This is MMM + ghost for sure, not gonna argue with that. Doesnt mean i havent seen alot of MMM games, but i dont think that MMM is somehow dominant amongst the matchups. Tanks are the biggest problem with terran, and they have now been nerfed, so lets be thankful for that
really just watch more recent play. what you describe is sooo several weeks ago. :>
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On August 29 2010 05:04 Dente wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 04:58 hadoken5 wrote:
Personally I think that as Zerg you have no way to win if the Terran does MMM properly. I hope you are kidding. Fungal growth and banelings would like to have a word with you...
Yeah i can just imagine how that conversation would go :p
I have liked the tournament up till now though :/
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On August 29 2010 06:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser).
you obviously understand their game way more than blizzard. j/k
seriously though, blizzard needs to keep in mind EVERY REGION and EVERY LEVEL. for example, 2 gate proxy may not work that well in high level play, but if 1 million people quit starcraft because the plat-bronze player can't handle it then starcraft is no good.
unlike a sport where different levels can have different rules, starcraft is the same for everyone, every level. any change must account for everyone. let them do their job, and you do yours which is to play
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On August 29 2010 06:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 06:18 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 06:03 hadoken5 wrote:On August 29 2010 06:00 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 05:54 vyyye wrote:On August 29 2010 05:50 Deadlyfish wrote:
You dont like MMM? I dont like zerg strategy. Mainly because all they have are like 5 units. Thats it.
Every zerg starts out with zerglings, maybe a few banelings. Then he either goes roach or muta. Rarely goes hydra. Late game it's pretty much the same, maybe even a few corrupters.
Same thing.
What the fuck? A zerg player doesn't have the option to go for any other units early game, as that's all the units he has. How is that the same thing? He said Terran was boring to watch, i said Zerg was boring to watch. Obviously, both statements are an exaggeration. No there is a difference to that. Terran is boring to watch because it pursues a single strategy all game long(as was shown in the MLG). Zerg may be boring to watch for you because you simply don't understand it or you may feel that they do the same thing over and over again, when really, all they're doing is reacting. You're saying that all Terran ever does is MMM? Why do siege tanks need to be nerfed then? I rarely see Terran go MMM vs another Terran or a zerg. I simply just dont see the problem. because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser). and if you watch any vods/reps of the last 1-2 weeks youll notice that bio dominates all matchups. its rauder + few tanks/vikings/banshees tvt bio + tanks tvz pure bio spam + maybe ghosts tvp but game is still still changing on a weekly basis. fotw is played 100% in current tournaments. add the maps that promote gimmick/very aggressive/allin play and you have the tournaments we have now. that said its still hugely entertaining and if people werent such crybabies there we wouldnt have to deal with all the terrible balance tears and complains.
imho these changes are going to shift TvZ away from bio, ironically. Bio only worked as well it did in TvZ because a few tanks (4ish) in lategame could just completely negate Banelings and do huge damage to hydras with good positioning. Now you need to invest more heavily into tanks to get the same effect, terrans going to be forced to choose from pure bio or pure mech, and I think mechs going to win out because there really isn't a viable way for a pure bio army to deal with banelings+infestors+mutaling/hydra.
tl;dr: Its a huge nerf to biomech, and I think its going to force terran to pick either or in TvZ. And Mech will probably win.
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On August 29 2010 06:37 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 06:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On August 29 2010 06:18 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 06:03 hadoken5 wrote:On August 29 2010 06:00 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 05:54 vyyye wrote:On August 29 2010 05:50 Deadlyfish wrote:
You dont like MMM? I dont like zerg strategy. Mainly because all they have are like 5 units. Thats it.
Every zerg starts out with zerglings, maybe a few banelings. Then he either goes roach or muta. Rarely goes hydra. Late game it's pretty much the same, maybe even a few corrupters.
Same thing.
What the fuck? A zerg player doesn't have the option to go for any other units early game, as that's all the units he has. How is that the same thing? He said Terran was boring to watch, i said Zerg was boring to watch. Obviously, both statements are an exaggeration. No there is a difference to that. Terran is boring to watch because it pursues a single strategy all game long(as was shown in the MLG). Zerg may be boring to watch for you because you simply don't understand it or you may feel that they do the same thing over and over again, when really, all they're doing is reacting. You're saying that all Terran ever does is MMM? Why do siege tanks need to be nerfed then? I rarely see Terran go MMM vs another Terran or a zerg. I simply just dont see the problem. because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser). and if you watch any vods/reps of the last 1-2 weeks youll notice that bio dominates all matchups. its rauder + few tanks/vikings/banshees tvt bio + tanks tvz pure bio spam + maybe ghosts tvp but game is still still changing on a weekly basis. fotw is played 100% in current tournaments. add the maps that promote gimmick/very aggressive/allin play and you have the tournaments we have now. that said its still hugely entertaining and if people werent such crybabies there we wouldnt have to deal with all the terrible balance tears and complains. imho these changes are going to shift TvZ away from bio, ironically. Bio only worked as well it did in TvZ because a few tanks (4ish) in a mid/lategame push could just completely negate Banelings and do huge damage to hydras with good positioning. Now you need to invest more heavily into tanks to get the same effect, terrans going to be forced to choose from pure bio or pure mech, and I think mechs going to win out because there really isn't a viable way for a pure bio army to deal with banelings+infestors.
no rofl. All you have to do is get +1 vehicle weapons and its the same. its just to give zerg a better chance vs the early-mid game tank/etc push.
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On August 29 2010 06:40 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 06:37 Half wrote:On August 29 2010 06:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On August 29 2010 06:18 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 06:03 hadoken5 wrote:On August 29 2010 06:00 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 05:54 vyyye wrote:On August 29 2010 05:50 Deadlyfish wrote:
You dont like MMM? I dont like zerg strategy. Mainly because all they have are like 5 units. Thats it.
Every zerg starts out with zerglings, maybe a few banelings. Then he either goes roach or muta. Rarely goes hydra. Late game it's pretty much the same, maybe even a few corrupters.
Same thing.
What the fuck? A zerg player doesn't have the option to go for any other units early game, as that's all the units he has. How is that the same thing? He said Terran was boring to watch, i said Zerg was boring to watch. Obviously, both statements are an exaggeration. No there is a difference to that. Terran is boring to watch because it pursues a single strategy all game long(as was shown in the MLG). Zerg may be boring to watch for you because you simply don't understand it or you may feel that they do the same thing over and over again, when really, all they're doing is reacting. You're saying that all Terran ever does is MMM? Why do siege tanks need to be nerfed then? I rarely see Terran go MMM vs another Terran or a zerg. I simply just dont see the problem. because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser). and if you watch any vods/reps of the last 1-2 weeks youll notice that bio dominates all matchups. its rauder + few tanks/vikings/banshees tvt bio + tanks tvz pure bio spam + maybe ghosts tvp but game is still still changing on a weekly basis. fotw is played 100% in current tournaments. add the maps that promote gimmick/very aggressive/allin play and you have the tournaments we have now. that said its still hugely entertaining and if people werent such crybabies there we wouldnt have to deal with all the terrible balance tears and complains. imho these changes are going to shift TvZ away from bio, ironically. Bio only worked as well it did in TvZ because a few tanks (4ish) in a mid/lategame push could just completely negate Banelings and do huge damage to hydras with good positioning. Now you need to invest more heavily into tanks to get the same effect, terrans going to be forced to choose from pure bio or pure mech, and I think mechs going to win out because there really isn't a viable way for a pure bio army to deal with banelings+infestors. no rofl. All you have to do is get +1 vehicle weapons and its the same. its just to give zerg a better chance vs the early-mid game tank/etc push.
No, it isn't. Splash Damage is going to be reduced greatly even with upgrades, and the extra armor is going to help even more against the reduced splash damage.
I don't even see how you can argue that a 35% damage nerf to a unit with splash damage, literally the single heaviest damage nerf we've seen up until now, is going to be "the same".
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10387 Posts
hmm do you not like TvZ and TvP from BW either?
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On August 29 2010 06:35 roliax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 06:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser).
you obviously understand their game way more than blizzard. j/k seriously though, blizzard needs to keep in mind EVERY REGION and EVERY LEVEL. for example, 2 gate proxy may not work that well in high level play, but if 1 million people quit starcraft because the plat-bronze player can't handle it then starcraft is no good. unlike a sport where different levels can have different rules, starcraft is the same for everyone, every level. any change must account for everyone. let them do their job, and you do yours which is to play
never said that. but the tank/cruiser changes are HUGE when they arent really a big issue right now. which is stupid imho .
about the rest
if it negativly affects top level play it should not be done.
simple example:
at training/bronze level of play normal 7 pool will beat the vast majority of the players simply because they dont know proper buildorders or how to counter. does this mean we have to increase pool buildtime now because the bottom 10% of the players have problems with it?
games always have to be balanced for the top few % of the playerbase.
On August 29 2010 06:37 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 06:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On August 29 2010 06:18 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 06:03 hadoken5 wrote:On August 29 2010 06:00 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 29 2010 05:54 vyyye wrote:On August 29 2010 05:50 Deadlyfish wrote:
You dont like MMM? I dont like zerg strategy. Mainly because all they have are like 5 units. Thats it.
Every zerg starts out with zerglings, maybe a few banelings. Then he either goes roach or muta. Rarely goes hydra. Late game it's pretty much the same, maybe even a few corrupters.
Same thing.
What the fuck? A zerg player doesn't have the option to go for any other units early game, as that's all the units he has. How is that the same thing? He said Terran was boring to watch, i said Zerg was boring to watch. Obviously, both statements are an exaggeration. No there is a difference to that. Terran is boring to watch because it pursues a single strategy all game long(as was shown in the MLG). Zerg may be boring to watch for you because you simply don't understand it or you may feel that they do the same thing over and over again, when really, all they're doing is reacting. You're saying that all Terran ever does is MMM? Why do siege tanks need to be nerfed then? I rarely see Terran go MMM vs another Terran or a zerg. I simply just dont see the problem. because blizzard doesnt understand their game very well and are doing weird kneejerk changes to T (tank/cruiser). and if you watch any vods/reps of the last 1-2 weeks youll notice that bio dominates all matchups. its rauder + few tanks/vikings/banshees tvt bio + tanks tvz pure bio spam + maybe ghosts tvp but game is still still changing on a weekly basis. fotw is played 100% in current tournaments. add the maps that promote gimmick/very aggressive/allin play and you have the tournaments we have now. that said its still hugely entertaining and if people werent such crybabies there we wouldnt have to deal with all the terrible balance tears and complains. imho these changes are going to shift TvZ away from bio, ironically. Bio only worked as well it did in TvZ because a few tanks (4ish) in a mid/lategame push could just completely negate Banelings and do huge damage to hydras with good positioning. Now you need to invest more heavily into tanks to get the same effect, terrans going to be forced to choose from pure bio or pure mech, and I think mechs going to win out because there really isn't a viable way for a pure bio army to deal with banelings+infestors+mutaling/hydra. tl;dr: Its a huge nerf to biomech, and I think its going to force terran to pick either or in TvZ. And Mech will probably win.
good point. but i dont see how mech has any chance of working at this stage of gameplay. evry Z now knows how to use mutas vs thors so having 3-4 thors wont shut down infinite mutas anymore. more thors means less tanks. less tanks means you get overrun by roaches onground.
also ultras > mech.
there is a reason why people switched away from it. Zs discovered ultras rape mech and Z discovered that thors arent invincible muta eaters.
imho T will just get more tank heavy in their bio/tank combo tvz since its the only thing that has the early power plus is "safe" against evrything.
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On August 29 2010 06:41 ArvickHero wrote:
hmm do you not like TvZ and TvP from BW either?
No, Zerg wasn't as reactionary in BW.
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Tanks are a huge issue right now. Critical mass of tanks beats everything and that's a problem, no matter how difficult it is to get to critical mass
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EPT
