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On April 21 2011 17:37 Koshi wrote:
1) I don't want to get spoilers. Especially when you can see if the Bo3 will take 2 or 3 games simply by seeing the time.
2) I want to fastforward or slowfmotion or even go back without the damn buffering system.
3) I want clean timemarks. Like in the GSL you can click on a set and the game starts, the analysis can be skipped because it is always in the end of a VoD.
I am sorry, but I am curious to see yet one streaming service that even provides 1 and 2. It's like asking NASL to set up a whole new industry standard of content delivery backend. Not to mention how to jump without some sort of timeline.
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yeah and don't forget they cost double ressources, supply , buildtime, and are higher on tech, and have shorter range..
guess today is facepalm day...
you have got flying dts for godsake ...
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On April 21 2011 19:18 freetgy wrote:
yeah and don't forget they cost double ressources, supply , buildtime, and are higher on tech, and have shorter range..
guess today is facepalm day...
you have got flying dts for godsake ...
its a joke...
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On April 21 2011 19:08 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 15:38 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2011 12:09 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On April 21 2011 10:55 dacthehork wrote:
Hilarious to see incontrol and nony defending protoss with as much vigor as possible while denying what is pretty obvious to everyone else.
Forcefields
Colossus (moving siege tanks)
.... hey, colossus have way more hp than siege tanks. that's not a fair comparison And they don't have to siege to do full damage! and dont forget that they can walk up and down cliffs, totally not a good comparasion-
And they can just walk over units! what an amazing skill toi have!!
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On April 21 2011 19:08 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 15:38 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2011 12:09 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On April 21 2011 10:55 dacthehork wrote:
Hilarious to see incontrol and nony defending protoss with as much vigor as possible while denying what is pretty obvious to everyone else.
Forcefields
Colossus (moving siege tanks)
.... hey, colossus have way more hp than siege tanks. that's not a fair comparison And they don't have to siege to do full damage! and dont forget that they can walk up and down cliffs, totally not a good comparasion-
Not to mention each Collosus is actually worth 2 siege tanks O.O. That is so not a good comparison.
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And don't forget that theire yellow and therefore seem less dangerous than the darker painted siege tanks...
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Belgium38799 Posts
On April 21 2011 19:06 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 17:37 Koshi wrote:
1) I don't want to get spoilers. Especially when you can see if the Bo3 will take 2 or 3 games simply by seeing the time.
2) I want to fastforward or slowfmotion or even go back without the damn buffering system.
3) I want clean timemarks. Like in the GSL you can click on a set and the game starts, the analysis can be skipped because it is always in the end of a VoD. I am sorry, but I am curious to see yet one streaming service that even provides 1 and 2. It's like asking NASL to set up a whole new industry standard of content delivery backend. Not to mention how to jump without some sort of timeline.
Well, at least GSL (and even some youtube casters) split up the different sets in a series to prevent an easy spoiler. NASL doesn't even bother to do that. If you see that the VOD is 40 minutes total and the first game lasts 25 minutes you know what will happen next...
But somebody should create a new player that allows to fastforward x2 x4 x8 x16 x64 and without a timer. Would be perfect.
I am not asking from the NASL to do the impossible or even to be innovative. But they can at least be above standard. Which they aren't. Every other big tournament worth checking out had better VODs.
I can't be the only one having issues with their system...
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On April 21 2011 08:53 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Treehead and freetgy and AndAgain, you guys go way beyond my scope. I have no interest in arguing about whether or not the loser can outplay the winner in a game of SC2. I give an analogy to explain how it would work if it's the case. You act like the analogy is my attempt at giving evidence that it is the case.
It's an analogy as a way of explanation, not an analogy as a way of argument.
My intent was not to begin an argument with you - it was simply to point it is a very nebulous distinction between one person playing the game (or answering questions) better than another and not being rewarded for it, and between one person playing the game (or answering question) worse than another with regard to a set of rules we don't yet understand.
Think of it this way - let's say we're watching two math majors take an exam (sad as it is, I used to do this for fun - math team anyone? no?). We might think that, in watching the person write down his answers and craft his logic, clearly one person is outperforming the crowd. If that person loses horribly, it only means that something is wrong if we understand both the questions and the answers perfectly - with the scope of all possible answers in mind - and still made the assessment that one person did better than others from a position free of bias. In any other situation, it just means something was impeding our judgement - and that it was our judgement which was faulty.
You pointed to the frame of reasoning that goes into one person "outplaying" another - I pointed out that sometimes that this line of reasoning isn't reliable - we aren't necessarily at odds.
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good last episode. Agreed with almost everything everyone said. You've gotta feel for Incontrol being in the situation he is after just sharing his excitement. But perhaps he's learning a good lesson.
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On April 21 2011 17:37 Koshi wrote:
2) I want to fastforward or slowfmotion or even go back without the damn buffering system.
"The damn buffering system" is what lets you watch a video smoothly even if your connection to the host hiccups. Which it will. A lot. It's acutally how 100% of all VOD implementations, bar none, work.
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On April 21 2011 17:20 ploy wrote:
roooooooooooofl at people's responses to a legitimate analogy.
Nony: analogy related a peculiar test to how one sc2 player could theoretically outplay another sc2 player and lose
Random response: Ah I see your point, but what if test taker 1 has a cold? and test taker 2 is hung over as fuck? You see this is like zerg starting out with 3 larva and protoss not having to think. Furthermore, ibuprofen works wonders for hangovers if you can take a nap right after you take it..... so you see i think your analogy is kind of flawed
Nony said in my last quote that he wasn't arguing the kind of outplaying he mentioned in his analogy can happen in SC2 - he was simply giving an explanation of what the notion of "outplaying" someone means. And even if he did mean that, since when is it that when someone comes up with an analogy we aren't allowed to question the analogy's applicability to the situation at hand?
Unless your point was that you understood neither the analogy nor the response - and that you are also able to come up with a line of logic that we can't understand, in which case, I agree wholeheartedly.
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On streams, chat rooms, forums, message boards, many people want NASL to fail. I hope iNcontrol is fully aware of this, they dont want this to fail because they are anti SC2 or anti eSports but because they have a dislike for him for something he said in SOTG Episode __.
If NASL was spearheaded by someone like Day9, someone who is beloved by 99% of the community, it would be considered "the little league that could" instead of all sorts of nasty things people have been saying.
Yes NASL could do alot better and they have made some mistakes, but all this is just overblown to much bigger problem than it actually is, and that is because want to see you Geoff fail, it would bring alot of people satisfaction.
If you told people on TL 5 years ago that the community was so spoiled by tons of tournaments, leagues and streams that they would enjoy fun mocking and shitting on a big league that is trying their best to launch in NA, they would have called you crazy.
We have so much right now, (which was mentioned on this episode) that people dont care that if Geoff goes down in flames so will NASL, becuase there is tons of other tournaments to follow. If NASL was the only game in town, people would back it up 100% but alas times are different
Yes you guys need to improve on various things, and the first season is beta of sorts NASL 0.8b version. But the negative comments are overblown, i can name you 2 big tournaments out there that aggrivated me and most of us far more than NASL has, MLG and IEM, with various delays, stream crashing etc (yes i know they are both live events). NASL has gotten more shit for bad sound and slight gamma problems than Assembly got when 2 of their casters blantantly said they couldnt wait till the games were over so they could go home and other BS.
Geoff did overhype the shit out of the thing, but if there anything positive to say about that is that you managed to actually whip out a great frenzy for a tournament and build excitement, not everyone can do that. If anything you did too good of a job but could not follow it up.
Good luck with NASL and just work hard it
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On April 22 2011 00:39 Tyree wrote:
If you told people on TL 5 years ago that the community was so spoiled by tons of tournaments, leagues and streams that they would enjoy fun mocking and shitting on a big league that is trying their best to launch in NA, they would have called you crazy.
We have so much right now, (which was mentioned on this episode) that people dont care that if Geoff goes down in flames so will NASL, becuase there is tons of other tournaments to follow. If NASL was the only game in town, people would back it up 100% but alas times are different
This. The idea that the community would spend its time tearing something as positive and ambitious as the NASL down instead of building it up and supporting it is (and under the pretense of WE JUST WANT ESPORTS TO SUCCEED GUYS NO REALLY) actually revolting to me. For that matter, the fact that we would spend so much time tearing Geoff, who has been nothing but positive and personable, down instead of giving him props where props are due and letting him, and the rest of the organization find their sea legs with this "spearheading an entirely new starleague" thing is revolting to me.
When did we develop such an overblown sense of entitlement?
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United States22883 Posts
On April 21 2011 19:06 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 17:37 Koshi wrote:
1) I don't want to get spoilers. Especially when you can see if the Bo3 will take 2 or 3 games simply by seeing the time.
2) I want to fastforward or slowfmotion or even go back without the damn buffering system.
3) I want clean timemarks. Like in the GSL you can click on a set and the game starts, the analysis can be skipped because it is always in the end of a VoD. I am sorry, but I am curious to see yet one streaming service that even provides 1 and 2. It's like asking NASL to set up a whole new industry standard of content delivery backend. Not to mention how to jump without some sort of timeline.
2 might be possible but there's many ways to get around 1. Even without the Youtube system TSL R1CH developed for TSL or the GOM system, they could just make extra videos for all the games, so that you don't know how many games it actually is.
Day9 does it on Blip.tv and all the former BW torrents were set up this way, so the game count wouldn't be spoiled.
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NASL got the players and games. That's the absolutely most important factor of all. What they need to do is work on production/sound and casting, which they are. It can only get better and better 
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On April 22 2011 02:29 phanto wrote:NASL got the players and games. That's the absolutely most important factor of all. What they need to do is work on production/sound and casting, which they are. It can only get better and better
Yup. People can bitch all they want, but where else are you guaranteed* to see at least one best of 3 for Naniwa vs Nada , or PainUser vs Boxer, or MC vs Select.
It's not like Naniwa or White Ra are going to go to a Code A qualifier, or JulyZerg is going to fly out to MLG and compete in an 256-man Open Tournament. Only other opportunity is a invitational like Dreamhack, which is a lot smaller in scale with much less on the line.
*assuming players show up on time, wakka wakka
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On April 22 2011 02:19 Vega62a wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 00:39 Tyree wrote:
If you told people on TL 5 years ago that the community was so spoiled by tons of tournaments, leagues and streams that they would enjoy fun mocking and shitting on a big league that is trying their best to launch in NA, they would have called you crazy.
We have so much right now, (which was mentioned on this episode) that people dont care that if Geoff goes down in flames so will NASL, becuase there is tons of other tournaments to follow. If NASL was the only game in town, people would back it up 100% but alas times are different
This. The idea that the community would spend its time tearing something as positive and ambitious as the NASL down instead of building it up and supporting it is (and under the pretense of WE JUST WANT ESPORTS TO SUCCEED GUYS NO REALLY) actually revolting to me. For that matter, the fact that we would spend so much time tearing Geoff, who has been nothing but positive and personable, down instead of giving him props where props are due and letting him, and the rest of the organization find their sea legs with this "spearheading an entirely new starleague" thing is revolting to me. When did we develop such an overblown sense of entitlement?
Wow relax there.
You make us all sound like monsters, when the fact is that ppl bought it.
It's all and good you want to support esport and such but don't forget they still sell a product.
When you buy a product you want it to do what it is supposed to deliver, if not you will complain.
Would you not complain when your tv constantly falls out? (extreme example here) or that the sound is messed up?
I really don't want to sound to negative here but acting like ppl aren't allowed to complain is just silly.
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On April 21 2011 19:06 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 17:37 Koshi wrote:
1) I don't want to get spoilers. Especially when you can see if the Bo3 will take 2 or 3 games simply by seeing the time.
2) I want to fastforward or slowfmotion or even go back without the damn buffering system.
3) I want clean timemarks. Like in the GSL you can click on a set and the game starts, the analysis can be skipped because it is always in the end of a VoD. I am sorry, but I am curious to see yet one streaming service that even provides 1 and 2. It's like asking NASL to set up a whole new industry standard of content delivery backend. Not to mention how to jump without some sort of timeline.
For 2, GSL does it. GSL vods are buffered, so you can skip forward or backward instantly.
And the piracy argument is stupid. The NASL vods are already on torrent sites. (I just checked out of curiosity.)
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On April 21 2011 12:09 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 10:55 dacthehork wrote:
Hilarious to see incontrol and nony defending protoss with as much vigor as possible while denying what is pretty obvious to everyone else.
Forcefields
Colossus (moving siege tanks)
.... hey, colossus have way more hp than siege tanks. that's not a fair comparison
well played sir well played
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EPT
