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On April 05 2011 08:08 legaton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 07:20 Bellygareth wrote:On April 05 2011 07:05 TealLurker wrote:On April 05 2011 06:57 nvs. wrote:I loves me some iNcontroL but how can you go 8-6, get placed 4th in a major tournament, and get guaranteed seeding for the rest of the year? What a lucky guy.  Ever the opportunist. He did say in SotG that he did avoid a lot of the heavy hitters in the pools. If the original top 16 from last season all came back, he would've had to wade through the open bracket. I seriously doubt he would've gotten 4th from there. Nothing against him because he played according to the MLG system. But I hate MLG's system. He played well when it mattered, it all comes down to this. He played well against terrible players, fared OK and cheesed a lot against out-of-form good players (TLO) and lose in a convincing fashion (at least, he convinced me he was bad) against good players (Select, Kiwikaki).
Those were just 2 matches. Any pro is going to have an off day. You can't judge his skill based on a tiny sample of his games. Plus, they were against Select and Kiwikaki. They are incredible players. There's zero shame in losing to them.
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On April 05 2011 08:53 KevinIX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 08:08 legaton wrote:On April 05 2011 07:20 Bellygareth wrote:On April 05 2011 07:05 TealLurker wrote:On April 05 2011 06:57 nvs. wrote:I loves me some iNcontroL but how can you go 8-6, get placed 4th in a major tournament, and get guaranteed seeding for the rest of the year? What a lucky guy. Ever the opportunist. He did say in SotG that he did avoid a lot of the heavy hitters in the pools. If the original top 16 from last season all came back, he would've had to wade through the open bracket. I seriously doubt he would've gotten 4th from there. Nothing against him because he played according to the MLG system. But I hate MLG's system. He played well when it mattered, it all comes down to this. He played well against terrible players, fared OK and cheesed a lot against out-of-form good players (TLO) and lose in a convincing fashion (at least, he convinced me he was bad) against good players (Select, Kiwikaki). Those were just 2 matches. Any pro is going to have an off day. You can't judge his skill based on a tiny sample of his games. Plus, they were against Select and Kiwikaki. They are incredible players. There's zero shame in losing to them.
The overall point being made, which I think you are missing, is that the games at MLG didn't really prove that he is a top player like some people are saying. I don't think losing to select and kiwikaki make him bad by any means. But winning the couple of series he did does not mean he is omgamazing at starcraft 2 either.
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No single tournament or a few games will ever prove that, regardless of format. It's all about consistent success. Even winning a tournament is just one step and you would need to make at least a couple more before getting recognized as a top player.
Then again, definition of "top player" varies depending on context as well. Incontrol is one of the best Protoss players in NA and his MLG placement was enough to reaffirm that fact, but nothing more than that.
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TLO beat Idra, and placed 5th me thinks at the whole thing, and he is "out of practice"
Where did all these judgement happy people come from anyway?
Incontrol played well, as did many players. I can't wait to hear their takes on it all.
More than anything I'm sad Tyler didn't win the whole thing, MLG has some kind of curse on him T.T
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Tomorrow will prove to be a very interesting show with a ton of people listening-in to see what our thoughts are on this past weekend. I'm so anxious for it.
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On April 05 2011 09:05 N3rV[Green] wrote:
TLO beat Idra, and placed 5th me thinks at the whole thing, and he is "out of practice"
Where did all these judgement happy people come from anyway?
Incontrol played well, as did many players. I can't wait to hear their takes on it all.
More than anything I'm sad Tyler didn't win the whole thing, MLG has some kind of curse on him T.T
I got a hunch that tyler plays too safe. Sc2 atm seems to be alot about taking calculated risks to get ahead. Tyler plays so safe that he shoudlnt be able to die against most stuff, but when people do risky builds against him they can end up far ahead if he doesnt find out soon enough.
About incontrol...He has some really good builds and specially that fast 3 gate sentry build was pretty impressive. But when you watch him play, you cant help but to think that his 4th place was pretty lucky. Miss micro and poor decision making loses him games where he is ahead as seen in both games vs select and in the first game agaisnt kiwikaki.
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On April 05 2011 09:12 itmeJP wrote:
Tomorrow will prove to be a very interesting show with a ton of people listening-in to see what our thoughts are on this past weekend. I'm so anxious for it.
Dunno how many people will get this reference, but JP, doesn't idra kind of remind you of vance? lol
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On April 05 2011 09:12 itmeJP wrote:
Tomorrow will prove to be a very interesting show with a ton of people listening-in to see what our thoughts are on this past weekend. I'm so anxious for it.
I'm really curious what it was like from the point of view of you and the players.
From our computers, it seemed like a bit of a trainwreck, to be honest. But I'm sure there was a shit ton of factors the average viewer hadn't considered or didn't know about.
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Incontrol is a decent player and did very very well, you can't take it away from him because of how the pools and brackets played out.
I'm definitely not trying to take anything away from him, my post was more of a critique of the MLG system than iNcontroL i guess, he just happened to be the example that illustrated my concern.
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On April 05 2011 09:12 itmeJP wrote:
Tomorrow will prove to be a very interesting show with a ton of people listening-in to see what our thoughts are on this past weekend. I'm so anxious for it.
Might just turn out to be the longest SotG yet? All of you involved in MLG, so there's all that, and then there's TSL and GSL WC, as well as the new IGN PL. Gonna be a packed episode I hope!
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You guys should have someone who was at MLG on the show (preferably not another toss) like PainUser or Idra. Or possibly someone who had to play through the open bracket like Sheth. Just some ideas.
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To be quite honest I don't think any one of you would pass up the chance to place the pylons in TLO's base like incontrol did. You have to think he is at a tournament the main goal on his mind is to win and do anything possible to win. Even kiwikaki put a pylon in the enemy base in the CHAMPIONSHIP matches.
If anything its more of TLO's fault for not scouting. Number 1 rule in starcraft is to scout especially your own base. I really wish you guys would stop bashing on Incontrol for doing something that caused him a win. I mean to be honest watching those games was more intense than any other games. Not being able to believe TLO didn't scout those and incontrol actually got to pull that off is quite amazing.
There was no cannon rush no bit by bit rush aka scv marine all in. He had the opportunity to get a win and he took it.
Geoff I just want to say thanks for being a huge part of E-sports and I enjoyed watching the games no matter how many people are bashing.
Haters gonna Hate!
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On April 05 2011 09:12 itmeJP wrote:
Tomorrow will prove to be a very interesting show with a ton of people listening-in to see what our thoughts are on this past weekend. I'm so anxious for it.
You big tease!
But i hope you can get the feedback from the MLG feedback thread on sundance desk, it has many valid points in it.
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On April 05 2011 09:12 itmeJP wrote:
Tomorrow will prove to be a very interesting show with a ton of people listening-in to see what our thoughts are on this past weekend. I'm so anxious for it.
I'm really looking forward to this show, with all the "inside information" and opinions about the event looking back now. Hopefully they won't hold back too much being afraid to get into trouble with their employer.
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On April 05 2011 08:53 KevinIX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 08:08 legaton wrote:On April 05 2011 07:20 Bellygareth wrote:On April 05 2011 07:05 TealLurker wrote:On April 05 2011 06:57 nvs. wrote:I loves me some iNcontroL but how can you go 8-6, get placed 4th in a major tournament, and get guaranteed seeding for the rest of the year? What a lucky guy. Ever the opportunist. He did say in SotG that he did avoid a lot of the heavy hitters in the pools. If the original top 16 from last season all came back, he would've had to wade through the open bracket. I seriously doubt he would've gotten 4th from there. Nothing against him because he played according to the MLG system. But I hate MLG's system. He played well when it mattered, it all comes down to this. He played well against terrible players, fared OK and cheesed a lot against out-of-form good players (TLO) and lose in a convincing fashion (at least, he convinced me he was bad) against good players (Select, Kiwikaki). Those were just 2 matches. Any pro is going to have an off day. You can't judge his skill based on a tiny sample of his games. Plus, they were against Select and Kiwikaki. They are incredible players. There's zero shame in losing to them.
Ok so according to this discussion Slush who got 9th above players like Idra is terrible, winning with a proxy pylon then having a 30 minute game against TLO is cheese, then losing to amazing players like Select and Kiwi (in a PvP) makes iNcontroL bad.
It's time to let go of your pre-conceptions and admit Inc deserves his spot. His group may not have been stacked with favourites but TLO Painuser and Slush aren't 'terrible players' and anyone who says they are is blind.
EDIT: If anything its more of TLO's fault for not scouting.
Fuck 'if anything', it's definitely his fault. If you win by a proxy pylon, it's not cheese, it's not an all in, it's not luck, it's you taking advantage of your opponent's mistake. Most games are won by the opponent's mistake. Inc won, fair and square, against TLO, 4-2.
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On April 05 2011 11:05 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 08:53 KevinIX wrote:On April 05 2011 08:08 legaton wrote:On April 05 2011 07:20 Bellygareth wrote:On April 05 2011 07:05 TealLurker wrote:On April 05 2011 06:57 nvs. wrote:I loves me some iNcontroL but how can you go 8-6, get placed 4th in a major tournament, and get guaranteed seeding for the rest of the year? What a lucky guy. Ever the opportunist. He did say in SotG that he did avoid a lot of the heavy hitters in the pools. If the original top 16 from last season all came back, he would've had to wade through the open bracket. I seriously doubt he would've gotten 4th from there. Nothing against him because he played according to the MLG system. But I hate MLG's system. He played well when it mattered, it all comes down to this. He played well against terrible players, fared OK and cheesed a lot against out-of-form good players (TLO) and lose in a convincing fashion (at least, he convinced me he was bad) against good players (Select, Kiwikaki). Those were just 2 matches. Any pro is going to have an off day. You can't judge his skill based on a tiny sample of his games. Plus, they were against Select and Kiwikaki. They are incredible players. There's zero shame in losing to them. Ok so according to this discussion Slush who got 9th above players like Idra is terrible, winning with a proxy pylon then having a 30 minute game against TLO is cheese, then losing to amazing players like Select and Kiwi (in a PvP) makes iNcontroL bad. It's time to let go of your pre-conceptions and admit Inc deserves his spot. His group may not have been stacked with favourites but TLO Painuser and Slush aren't 'terrible players' and anyone who says they are is blind.
If we would look at this from a distance we will find out that he did not earn his place in the pool, it was given to him thanks to people with higher seed not signing up to the tournament. In a way we could say that Huk helped incontrol in this tournament.
But he was there, he played and got the placement he deserves from that. It was a combination of luck and skill.
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I hope you're going to at least mention that incident TLO and Hot_bid were talking about in TLO's interview, where some fan didn't know who Tyler was (although he knew pretty much every other pro present).
That would be hilarious.
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On April 05 2011 11:11 Jiddra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 11:05 The KY wrote:On April 05 2011 08:53 KevinIX wrote:On April 05 2011 08:08 legaton wrote:On April 05 2011 07:20 Bellygareth wrote:On April 05 2011 07:05 TealLurker wrote:On April 05 2011 06:57 nvs. wrote:I loves me some iNcontroL but how can you go 8-6, get placed 4th in a major tournament, and get guaranteed seeding for the rest of the year? What a lucky guy. Ever the opportunist. He did say in SotG that he did avoid a lot of the heavy hitters in the pools. If the original top 16 from last season all came back, he would've had to wade through the open bracket. I seriously doubt he would've gotten 4th from there. Nothing against him because he played according to the MLG system. But I hate MLG's system. He played well when it mattered, it all comes down to this. He played well against terrible players, fared OK and cheesed a lot against out-of-form good players (TLO) and lose in a convincing fashion (at least, he convinced me he was bad) against good players (Select, Kiwikaki). Those were just 2 matches. Any pro is going to have an off day. You can't judge his skill based on a tiny sample of his games. Plus, they were against Select and Kiwikaki. They are incredible players. There's zero shame in losing to them. Ok so according to this discussion Slush who got 9th above players like Idra is terrible, winning with a proxy pylon then having a 30 minute game against TLO is cheese, then losing to amazing players like Select and Kiwi (in a PvP) makes iNcontroL bad. It's time to let go of your pre-conceptions and admit Inc deserves his spot. His group may not have been stacked with favourites but TLO Painuser and Slush aren't 'terrible players' and anyone who says they are is blind. If we would look at this from a distance we will find out that he did not earn his place in the pool, it was given to him thanks to people with higher seed not signing up to the tournament. In a way we could say that Huk helped incontrol in this tournament. But he was there, he played and got the placement he deserves from that. It was a combination of luck and skill.
Let me tell you something; every single person who placed highly had a combination of luck and skill. That is the nature of a tournament. Yes he got bumped up one place and got a by into pool play, but to be honest placing top of his group and then getting fourth sort of justifies his being there in the first place. Regardless of whether you think group d was easier than the others or not; he topped it.
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On April 05 2011 11:05 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 08:53 KevinIX wrote:On April 05 2011 08:08 legaton wrote:On April 05 2011 07:20 Bellygareth wrote:On April 05 2011 07:05 TealLurker wrote:On April 05 2011 06:57 nvs. wrote:I loves me some iNcontroL but how can you go 8-6, get placed 4th in a major tournament, and get guaranteed seeding for the rest of the year? What a lucky guy. Ever the opportunist. He did say in SotG that he did avoid a lot of the heavy hitters in the pools. If the original top 16 from last season all came back, he would've had to wade through the open bracket. I seriously doubt he would've gotten 4th from there. Nothing against him because he played according to the MLG system. But I hate MLG's system. He played well when it mattered, it all comes down to this. He played well against terrible players, fared OK and cheesed a lot against out-of-form good players (TLO) and lose in a convincing fashion (at least, he convinced me he was bad) against good players (Select, Kiwikaki). Those were just 2 matches. Any pro is going to have an off day. You can't judge his skill based on a tiny sample of his games. Plus, they were against Select and Kiwikaki. They are incredible players. There's zero shame in losing to them. it's not cheese
Incontrol said himself on stage that he felt like a big Quesadilla after his first two games against TLO.
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On April 05 2011 11:14 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 11:11 Jiddra wrote:On April 05 2011 11:05 The KY wrote:On April 05 2011 08:53 KevinIX wrote:On April 05 2011 08:08 legaton wrote:On April 05 2011 07:20 Bellygareth wrote:On April 05 2011 07:05 TealLurker wrote:On April 05 2011 06:57 nvs. wrote:I loves me some iNcontroL but how can you go 8-6, get placed 4th in a major tournament, and get guaranteed seeding for the rest of the year? What a lucky guy. Ever the opportunist. He did say in SotG that he did avoid a lot of the heavy hitters in the pools. If the original top 16 from last season all came back, he would've had to wade through the open bracket. I seriously doubt he would've gotten 4th from there. Nothing against him because he played according to the MLG system. But I hate MLG's system. He played well when it mattered, it all comes down to this. He played well against terrible players, fared OK and cheesed a lot against out-of-form good players (TLO) and lose in a convincing fashion (at least, he convinced me he was bad) against good players (Select, Kiwikaki). Those were just 2 matches. Any pro is going to have an off day. You can't judge his skill based on a tiny sample of his games. Plus, they were against Select and Kiwikaki. They are incredible players. There's zero shame in losing to them. Ok so according to this discussion Slush who got 9th above players like Idra is terrible, winning with a proxy pylon then having a 30 minute game against TLO is cheese, then losing to amazing players like Select and Kiwi (in a PvP) makes iNcontroL bad. It's time to let go of your pre-conceptions and admit Inc deserves his spot. His group may not have been stacked with favourites but TLO Painuser and Slush aren't 'terrible players' and anyone who says they are is blind. If we would look at this from a distance we will find out that he did not earn his place in the pool, it was given to him thanks to people with higher seed not signing up to the tournament. In a way we could say that Huk helped incontrol in this tournament. But he was there, he played and got the placement he deserves from that. It was a combination of luck and skill. Let me tell you something; every single person who placed highly had a combination of luck and skill. That is the nature of a tournament. Yes he got bumped up one place and got a by into pool play, but to be honest placing top of his group and then getting fourth sort of justifies his being there in the first place. Regardless of whether you think group d was easier than the others or not; he topped it.
Please, don't put words in my mouth.
read again, thank you.
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EPT
