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On June 30 2012 06:51 xParadoxi wrote:
My response to Incontrol would be that, while I can respect you as a player. It does seem to me that you are/were belittling people. Making fun of his lisp, telling people to fuck themselves. You seem to be acting like all it was just some playful joking around, but it seemed like there was nothing "playful" about it. You were snide, and disrespectful. Critique his play if you want, but it seems to me, if you are going to invite the guy to the show, at least have a little class about it.
http://imgur.com/4u2QF
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On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
Probably because zerg didn't get their late game nerfed repeatedly as this went on.
Zerg can have a strong early game, but why the hell do they get an insanely ridiculous late game with no possibility of terran being able to compete with it? This patch just highlighted how insanely imbalanced zerg is when they do not have to fear harassment. Terran simply does not have the units required to compete with a zergs race design.
Zerg needs a late-game nerf or a hard production nerf. I am more than fine with larve inject being nerfed so for once zerg needs more than 4-5 production facilities.
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On June 30 2012 08:49 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:42 goiflin wrote:On June 30 2012 08:39 Femari wrote:On June 30 2012 08:30 goiflin wrote:On June 30 2012 08:25 kinglemon wrote:On June 30 2012 06:00 Liquid`NonY wrote:
When a patch comes that significantly changes a matchup, what is usually happening is most of the known sweet spots are no longer so sweet. That's IdrA saying that the old builds don't work. What are the new sweet spots?
the problem is that there are no new sweet spots. the patch only reduced viable terran builds, and definitely didn't make any terran builds stronger. Now, I'm not going to say that I know WHAT terrans can do, but saying that there is no new sweet spots because terran didn't get buffs is pretty silly. Terran has plenty of tools that they don't use, that they could fiddle around with. I dunno if there IS a new build in ZvT that can pressure your opponent without being an all-in, but saying because terran didn't get buffed that there won't be another build is kinda silly. So what happens if we find another build and then Blizzard nerfs that? How is that even a valid question? I guess in this hypothetical universe, you find another build. Seriously. There has been no terran buffs that have directly resulted in terran using more of x unit, or terran changing their playstyle around that buff. Terran has consistently been nerfed since the start of the game, but they always seem to find another build to pull off and win games. Don't be so pessimistic! It is a valid question to a lot of Terrans. I know quite a few who think "What is the point they make sure to nerf everything we have". I mean I'm still trying but look at what we have. We can't use reapers. Hellions are shit now. Ravens are too expensive for any advantage they'd give up. Ghosts do not help against a good zerg unless that zerg makes a giant mistake. We have been nerfed to hell which really limits our options.
The fact of the matter is, in the past, terrans have always figured out new stuff after nerfs. If you get nerfed again? Think of more shit I guess.
Just answering a hypothetical with a hypothetical.
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I wish there was version of this show where the amount said by incontrol and nony was reversed completely.
Is there a way I could encourage this with money jp? I would gladly consider it.
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On June 30 2012 08:50 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
Probably because zerg didn't get their late game nerfed repeatedly as this went on. Zerg can have a strong early game, but why the hell do they get an insanely ridiculous late game with no possibility of terran being able to compete with it? This patch just highlighted how insanely imbalanced zerg is when they do not have to fear harassment. Terran simply does not have the units required to compete with a zergs race design. Zerg needs a late-game nerf or a hard production nerf. I am more than fine with larve inject being nerfed so for once zerg needs more than 4-5 production facilities.
This patch really highlighted how insanely stubborn terrans are. Terrans are just not changing it up. Hell even with zero change to the PvZ metagame protosses are experiementing with going back to gateway first instead of forge fe. Where are the terrans doing new things?
It seems like no where
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On June 30 2012 08:48 Domus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
If things we're so terrible, then why did Nestea win the GSL code S 3 times? Why did Fruitdealer win the GSL code S? Why did Curious win Code A? Why did Losira win Code A? Why does Stephano take so many tournaments? Why does DRG win so much? Why does Idra have so many wins on his name? Surely you are not going to tell me that these players are so much better than their Protoss and Terran counterparts, that by pure talent they could overcome a completely unbalanced and unplayable race? The thing is, the game has never been so out of balance that it becomes impossible for a race to win, and it still isn't, Terrans can still win tournaments. What is changing is the way the game is played, it becomes late-very late game more and more often, and I am not sure that is such a great thing. In tournaments I feel the games are becoming more and more boring.
Why did MC win so many titles? How did MVP win four GSLs? How did Puma win two NASLs in a row? MarineKing? MMA?
I came play this little game too. You're not making a point.
And yes, the game after the release of the Beta was imbalanced. That's why we have new maps and nerfs to reapers and blue flame hellions.
Fruitdealer won because he was legitimately better than everyone else for a small window of time, and has done dick all since. Nestea, Stephano -- these guys are just top-of-the-class good, and you can have a player like IdrA try to mimic their builds and strategies exactly and he still wouldn't be as good as him. They are that talented.
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On June 30 2012 08:53 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:49 Femari wrote:On June 30 2012 08:42 goiflin wrote:On June 30 2012 08:39 Femari wrote:On June 30 2012 08:30 goiflin wrote:On June 30 2012 08:25 kinglemon wrote:On June 30 2012 06:00 Liquid`NonY wrote:
When a patch comes that significantly changes a matchup, what is usually happening is most of the known sweet spots are no longer so sweet. That's IdrA saying that the old builds don't work. What are the new sweet spots?
the problem is that there are no new sweet spots. the patch only reduced viable terran builds, and definitely didn't make any terran builds stronger. Now, I'm not going to say that I know WHAT terrans can do, but saying that there is no new sweet spots because terran didn't get buffs is pretty silly. Terran has plenty of tools that they don't use, that they could fiddle around with. I dunno if there IS a new build in ZvT that can pressure your opponent without being an all-in, but saying because terran didn't get buffed that there won't be another build is kinda silly. So what happens if we find another build and then Blizzard nerfs that? How is that even a valid question? I guess in this hypothetical universe, you find another build. Seriously. There has been no terran buffs that have directly resulted in terran using more of x unit, or terran changing their playstyle around that buff. Terran has consistently been nerfed since the start of the game, but they always seem to find another build to pull off and win games. Don't be so pessimistic! It is a valid question to a lot of Terrans. I know quite a few who think "What is the point they make sure to nerf everything we have". I mean I'm still trying but look at what we have. We can't use reapers. Hellions are shit now. Ravens are too expensive for any advantage they'd give up. Ghosts do not help against a good zerg unless that zerg makes a giant mistake. We have been nerfed to hell which really limits our options. The fact of the matter is, in the past, terrans have always figured out new stuff after nerfs. If you get nerfed again? Think of more shit I guess. Just answering a hypothetical with a hypothetical.
We can't pull builds out of our ass forever. That's the thing. You can't just constantly say "Be creative" when the other two races constantly get buffs. Either make everyone be creative or give Terran buffs like they've given Zerg and Toss.
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On June 30 2012 08:41 Mellowman wrote:
Anyone else bothered by Idra shit talking MKP? Like.... How does he even pull that off?
No, it's just like when people rip on Idra for being bad even when he was still easily top 3 foreigners for awhile (obviously not now) or like people shit talking MC/Nestea and even MVP.
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What happened to their Giantbomb sponsorship? Geoff kept saying they were going to sign a contract for 3 shows a month...
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On June 30 2012 08:58 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:53 goiflin wrote:On June 30 2012 08:49 Femari wrote:On June 30 2012 08:42 goiflin wrote:On June 30 2012 08:39 Femari wrote:On June 30 2012 08:30 goiflin wrote:On June 30 2012 08:25 kinglemon wrote:On June 30 2012 06:00 Liquid`NonY wrote:
When a patch comes that significantly changes a matchup, what is usually happening is most of the known sweet spots are no longer so sweet. That's IdrA saying that the old builds don't work. What are the new sweet spots?
the problem is that there are no new sweet spots. the patch only reduced viable terran builds, and definitely didn't make any terran builds stronger. Now, I'm not going to say that I know WHAT terrans can do, but saying that there is no new sweet spots because terran didn't get buffs is pretty silly. Terran has plenty of tools that they don't use, that they could fiddle around with. I dunno if there IS a new build in ZvT that can pressure your opponent without being an all-in, but saying because terran didn't get buffed that there won't be another build is kinda silly. So what happens if we find another build and then Blizzard nerfs that? How is that even a valid question? I guess in this hypothetical universe, you find another build. Seriously. There has been no terran buffs that have directly resulted in terran using more of x unit, or terran changing their playstyle around that buff. Terran has consistently been nerfed since the start of the game, but they always seem to find another build to pull off and win games. Don't be so pessimistic! It is a valid question to a lot of Terrans. I know quite a few who think "What is the point they make sure to nerf everything we have". I mean I'm still trying but look at what we have. We can't use reapers. Hellions are shit now. Ravens are too expensive for any advantage they'd give up. Ghosts do not help against a good zerg unless that zerg makes a giant mistake. We have been nerfed to hell which really limits our options. The fact of the matter is, in the past, terrans have always figured out new stuff after nerfs. If you get nerfed again? Think of more shit I guess. Just answering a hypothetical with a hypothetical. We can't pull builds out of our ass forever. That's the thing. You can't just constantly say "Be creative" when the other two races constantly get buffs. Either make everyone be creative or give Terran buffs like they've given Zerg and Toss.
You know, you can say that you can't pull builds out of your asses forever but that's exactly what terran has been doing since the start of the game, so...
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On June 30 2012 08:56 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:48 Domus wrote:On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
If things we're so terrible, then why did Nestea win the GSL code S 3 times? Why did Fruitdealer win the GSL code S? Why did Curious win Code A? Why did Losira win Code A? Why does Stephano take so many tournaments? Why does DRG win so much? Why does Idra have so many wins on his name? Surely you are not going to tell me that these players are so much better than their Protoss and Terran counterparts, that by pure talent they could overcome a completely unbalanced and unplayable race? The thing is, the game has never been so out of balance that it becomes impossible for a race to win, and it still isn't, Terrans can still win tournaments. What is changing is the way the game is played, it becomes late-very late game more and more often, and I am not sure that is such a great thing. In tournaments I feel the games are becoming more and more boring. Why did MC win so many titles? How did MVP win four GSLs? How did Puma win two NASLs in a row? MarineKing? MMA? I came play this little game too. You're not making a point. And yes, the game after the release of the Beta was imbalanced. That's why we have new maps and nerfs to reapers and blue flame hellions. Fruitdealer won because he was legitimately better than everyone else for a small window of time, and has done dick all since. Nestea, Stephano -- these guys are just top-of-the-class good, and you can have a player like IdrA try to mimic their builds and strategies exactly and he still wouldn't be as good as him. They are that talented.
You are failing to see my point, so I will just place it here, in bold for you without the rest of the text:
The thing is, the game has never been so out of balance that it becomes impossible for a race to win, and it still isn't, Terrans can still win tournaments.
That was the point I was trying to make. The game has been balanced enough from the start for any race to win if the player was good enough. But the games are becoming increasingly boring since everything is shifting to the late game.
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On June 30 2012 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:50 Talack wrote:On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
Probably because zerg didn't get their late game nerfed repeatedly as this went on. Zerg can have a strong early game, but why the hell do they get an insanely ridiculous late game with no possibility of terran being able to compete with it? This patch just highlighted how insanely imbalanced zerg is when they do not have to fear harassment. Terran simply does not have the units required to compete with a zergs race design. Zerg needs a late-game nerf or a hard production nerf. I am more than fine with larve inject being nerfed so for once zerg needs more than 4-5 production facilities. This patch really highlighted how insanely stubborn terrans are. Terrans are just not changing it up. Hell even with zero change to the PvZ metagame protosses are experiementing with going back to gateway first instead of forge fe. Where are the terrans doing new things? It seems like no where
Are Terrans supposed to pull "new thing" out of their ass? At the start of the beta everyone thought that siege tank sucks (60pure damage,75 with upgrades). After some time we saw their usage more and more until they were nerfed to (60->50 and after that 50-> 35(light). Same with reapers and BFH. They are heavily used for 2-4 weeks and then BAM ,nerfed to oblivion. Same with ghost and RAVEN
Patch 11 (version 0.13.0.15250)
Seeker Missile range has been decreased from 9 to 6.
Seeker Missile splash radius has been decreased from 2.4 to 2.
Seeker Missile upgrade no longer requires Fusion Core.
Patch 1.3.3
(Undocumented) PDD no longer stops broodlings from spawning from brood lord attacks.
TLDR: You are dumb.
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On June 30 2012 05:31 dvorakftw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 05:20 Dosey wrote:
That's actually the 6th picture and easily overlooked. Especially if you're just trying to find a quick picture because someone refuses to turn on his webcam. It's the second pic of avilo. I could go for debate points but discussing fine points of language but will skip that to say it takes a normal human a fraction of a second to look at the results of the google image search of avilo sc2 to see there was more than one choice and that avilo did not refuse to turn on his webcam - he did but they couldn't get it to work. Nice try, though. User was temp banned for this post.
So I'm confused... Why was Dvorkftw banned? Which commandment did he break? That post seemed completely benign.
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On June 30 2012 08:58 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:41 Mellowman wrote:
Anyone else bothered by Idra shit talking MKP? Like.... How does he even pull that off? No, it's just like when people rip on Idra for being bad even when he was still easily top 3 foreigners for awhile (obviously not now) or like people shit talking MC/Nestea and even MVP.
And idra does sort of have a point. Can't entirely remember what idra said, but I'd definitely agree with the idea that MKP gladly does builds or styles that have a huge chance of getting wildly blown out, not scouting for these things, and then has an uncanny knack for winning anyway through control/some sort of sheer bloody mindedness/ good fortune. It does make learning from him very difficult, as a Terran.
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On June 30 2012 09:01 Domus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:56 Defacer wrote:On June 30 2012 08:48 Domus wrote:On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
If things we're so terrible, then why did Nestea win the GSL code S 3 times? Why did Fruitdealer win the GSL code S? Why did Curious win Code A? Why did Losira win Code A? Why does Stephano take so many tournaments? Why does DRG win so much? Why does Idra have so many wins on his name? Surely you are not going to tell me that these players are so much better than their Protoss and Terran counterparts, that by pure talent they could overcome a completely unbalanced and unplayable race? The thing is, the game has never been so out of balance that it becomes impossible for a race to win, and it still isn't, Terrans can still win tournaments. What is changing is the way the game is played, it becomes late-very late game more and more often, and I am not sure that is such a great thing. In tournaments I feel the games are becoming more and more boring. Why did MC win so many titles? How did MVP win four GSLs? How did Puma win two NASLs in a row? MarineKing? MMA? I came play this little game too. You're not making a point. And yes, the game after the release of the Beta was imbalanced. That's why we have new maps and nerfs to reapers and blue flame hellions. Fruitdealer won because he was legitimately better than everyone else for a small window of time, and has done dick all since. Nestea, Stephano -- these guys are just top-of-the-class good, and you can have a player like IdrA try to mimic their builds and strategies exactly and he still wouldn't be as good as him. They are that talented. You are failing to see my point, so I will just place it here, in bold for you without the rest of the text: The thing is, the game has never been so out of balance that it becomes impossible for a race to win, and it still isn't, Terrans can still win tournaments.That was the point I was trying to make. The game has been balanced enough from the start for any race to win if the player was good enough. But the games are becoming increasingly boring since everything is shifting to the late game.
I agree.
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On June 30 2012 09:03 Elvin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 30 2012 08:50 Talack wrote:On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
Probably because zerg didn't get their late game nerfed repeatedly as this went on. Zerg can have a strong early game, but why the hell do they get an insanely ridiculous late game with no possibility of terran being able to compete with it? This patch just highlighted how insanely imbalanced zerg is when they do not have to fear harassment. Terran simply does not have the units required to compete with a zergs race design. Zerg needs a late-game nerf or a hard production nerf. I am more than fine with larve inject being nerfed so for once zerg needs more than 4-5 production facilities. This patch really highlighted how insanely stubborn terrans are. Terrans are just not changing it up. Hell even with zero change to the PvZ metagame protosses are experiementing with going back to gateway first instead of forge fe. Where are the terrans doing new things? It seems like no where Are Terrans supposed to pull "new thing" out of their ass? At the start of the beta everyone thought that siege tank sucks (60pure damage,75 with upgrades). After some time we saw their usage more and more until they were nerfed to (60->50 and after that 50-> 35(light). Same with reapers and BFH. They are heavily used for 2-4 weeks and then BAM ,nerfed to oblivion. Same with ghost and RAVEN Patch 11 (version 0.13.0.15250) Seeker Missile range has been decreased from 9 to 6. Seeker Missile splash radius has been decreased from 2.4 to 2. Seeker Missile upgrade no longer requires Fusion Core. Patch 1.3.3 (Undocumented) PDD no longer stops broodlings from spawning from brood lord attacks. TLDR: You are dumb.
The BFH nerf hardly put them into oblivion. Ghosts still get used in TvP despite recieving two nerfs to EMP in seperate patches. Tanks are still used despite nerfs.
Nerfs =! unit unusable. There's actually only one unit that's "unusable" due to nerfs, and that's the reaper.
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On June 30 2012 09:03 Elvin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 30 2012 08:50 Talack wrote:On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
Probably because zerg didn't get their late game nerfed repeatedly as this went on. Zerg can have a strong early game, but why the hell do they get an insanely ridiculous late game with no possibility of terran being able to compete with it? This patch just highlighted how insanely imbalanced zerg is when they do not have to fear harassment. Terran simply does not have the units required to compete with a zergs race design. Zerg needs a late-game nerf or a hard production nerf. I am more than fine with larve inject being nerfed so for once zerg needs more than 4-5 production facilities. This patch really highlighted how insanely stubborn terrans are. Terrans are just not changing it up. Hell even with zero change to the PvZ metagame protosses are experiementing with going back to gateway first instead of forge fe. Where are the terrans doing new things? It seems like no where Are Terrans supposed to pull "new thing" out of their ass? At the start of the beta everyone thought that siege tank sucks (60pure damage,75 with upgrades). After some time we saw their usage more and more until they were nerfed to (60->50 and after that 50-> 35(light). Same with reapers and BFH. They are heavily used for 2-4 weeks and then BAM ,nerfed to oblivion. Same with ghost and RAVEN Patch 11 (version 0.13.0.15250) Seeker Missile range has been decreased from 9 to 6. Seeker Missile splash radius has been decreased from 2.4 to 2. Seeker Missile upgrade no longer requires Fusion Core. Patch 1.3.3 (Undocumented) PDD no longer stops broodlings from spawning from brood lord attacks. TLDR: You are dumb.
I'll overlook the fact that yes terrans (like the other races) are supposed to find new solutions to problems that arise for just a second to say did you honestly just try and say that seeker missile not requiring the fusion core was a NERF?
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On June 30 2012 09:00 Chriscras wrote:
What happened to their Giantbomb sponsorship? Geoff kept saying they were going to sign a contract for 3 shows a month...
If you owned a company would you sponsor SotG in its current format? 12 months ago it was awesome.
Now we have Incontrol acting the clown with his abacus, belittling lesser celebs, casters etc then fake apologising afterwards, Idra acting so immature; swearing and ranting, Nony although very sensible is so introverted you often have to wait to the post thread to get his thoughts and JP ...well in industry the manager takes the hit for failure and SotG has gone so downhill its untrue. Admittedly Realtalk is going well, though I dread to think what the Destiny episode will be like.
At least Artosis rocks. Maybe Day9 is just so intelligent he saw all this coming which is why he quietly exited from the show in Q4 last year.
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On June 30 2012 09:03 Elvin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 30 2012 08:50 Talack wrote:On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
Probably because zerg didn't get their late game nerfed repeatedly as this went on. Zerg can have a strong early game, but why the hell do they get an insanely ridiculous late game with no possibility of terran being able to compete with it? This patch just highlighted how insanely imbalanced zerg is when they do not have to fear harassment. Terran simply does not have the units required to compete with a zergs race design. Zerg needs a late-game nerf or a hard production nerf. I am more than fine with larve inject being nerfed so for once zerg needs more than 4-5 production facilities. This patch really highlighted how insanely stubborn terrans are. Terrans are just not changing it up. Hell even with zero change to the PvZ metagame protosses are experiementing with going back to gateway first instead of forge fe. Where are the terrans doing new things? It seems like no where Are Terrans supposed to pull "new thing" out of their ass? At the start of the beta everyone thought that siege tank sucks (60pure damage,75 with upgrades). After some time we saw their usage more and more until they were nerfed to (60->50 and after that 50-> 35(light). Same with reapers and BFH. They are heavily used for 2-4 weeks and then BAM ,nerfed to oblivion. Same with ghost and RAVEN Patch 11 (version 0.13.0.15250) Seeker Missile range has been decreased from 9 to 6. Seeker Missile splash radius has been decreased from 2.4 to 2. Seeker Missile upgrade no longer requires Fusion Core. Patch 1.3.3 (Undocumented) PDD no longer stops broodlings from spawning from brood lord attacks. TLDR: You are dumb.
One of the things that IdrA pointed out is that even though there has been some nerfs to Terran unit, it doesn't mean those things are suddenly worthless just because you can't a-move or insta-win with them.
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[QUOTE]On June 30 2012 09:07 chipmonklord17 wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 30 2012 09:03 Elvin wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 30 2012 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 30 2012 08:50 Talack wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 30 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
I'd like to remind people that it took a full year before the zerg queen range and overlord speed was buffed.
During that time, Zergs endured imbalanced maps with close positions or cliffs over exansions, and ridiculously abusive units/builds like two-shot blue flame hellions and reaper rushes. We had to try everything under the sun to remain competitive.
It wasn't until guys like Aquanda and Spanishiwa proved the viability of no-gas high econ/larvae openings* that Zergs seemed to get some kind of footing, and even then it felt like the only way Zergs could win was if they spotted and exploited an error by Terrans.
I'm not going to argue that ZvT is balanced, but a month and a half of Terrans mostly doing the same tired variations of hellion openings definitely does not prove it is imbalanced.
*Think about how radical it is to not get gas until you have 30-plus drones. Can you imagine how many times Spanishiwa had to lose, over and over again before he perfected that opening? Are there any Terrans that are experimenting in such a manner?
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I'll overlook the fact that yes terrans (like the other races) are supposed to find new solutions to problems that arise for just a second to say did you honestly just try and say that seeker missile not requiring the fusion core was a NERF?
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That's a buff you idort.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
