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On June 30 2012 00:44 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 00:39 Toadvine wrote:On June 30 2012 00:36 -Archangel- wrote:On June 30 2012 00:14 Mesha wrote:
Idra has double standards for everything. He will bluntly say to someone"I am not talking to you because you are trash at starcraft!" - and then be friend and kindly discuss something starcraft wise with iNcontrol even though by all of his standards Incontrol is nobody when it comes to actually play the game of starcraft and thus don't know what he is talking about. Although he constantly avoid to show emotion everybody can see how insecure and full of shit he is behind the serious act he tries to present. Idra, just chill the fuck out. You will be a better person and a better player. Right now you are horrible on both departments. Avilo whines all the time, but that's part of his weird character i don't actually take seriously when he says how protoss is broken, he is also very funny guy with really special style of play - but to threat him like they did - it's just wrong and childish.
Only reason why this is strange to people is because he is doing this connected to esports. When you go to your high school class or university class and start talking stupid in front of the a professor you will not complain like crazy when that person tells you to stfu because you don't know what you are talking about. I see no reason why Idra cannot be like that to lesser players. He can listen to them and then he has the right to act that way if he feels they are talking stupid. end of story. So, would it be ok if, say, Stephano joined the show and told Idra to stfu if he disagreed with him? Yes and Idra would understand that him of all people is less qualified to talk about balance than Stephano. I remember in an interview about the MLG before the previous when Inori beat Stephano and then Stephano watched Idra beat Inori he said Stephano walked away in disgust that someone who's so much worse than him just managed to beat him (something along those lines)
Sigh, with people actually believing this is the right way to behave, no wonder our community figures are such douchebags. :/
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Wow Idra was being a complete asshole the entire time. He basically rolled over qxc's points the entire time and refused to acknowledge almost any of them, all the while completely theorycrafting about a race he doesnt even play. When they brought Avilo on, he upped his douchebaggery and made numerous personal attacks on Avilo before they uncerimoniously kicked him off the show. While Avilo kind of started off on the wrong foot by asking incontrol why he disliked him so much, he really only interrupted idra one time and idra went nuts and insulted him. Idra talked about these aggro builds terran could do to stop zerg from macroing but didnt really say what they actually were. On top of that, he also claimed the MKP didnt understand the game. If i recall correctly, MKP is a far better player than idra will ever be.
All in all, while avilo didnt necessarily make his points very clear, Idra was very rude to him and essentially ruined the episode for me.
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I find it peculiar that people are reacting to how the Idra - Avilo "debate" ended. Avilo was acting like a child trying to put words in Greg's mouth, if someone did that to me in a similar situation, I would have gotten furious. Just saying "that's it I don't want to talk to him anymore" I think was an apt measure to take in that situation. If anyone is surprised of the namecalling and are suddenly taking offense to it, well what can I say, that's how Idra has been for years.
I actually took more offense to how Geoff has been treating Avilo the last couple of weeks. I know Avilo can be quite a character and he can be offensive/act childish to others, I don't think he deserves the bullying he gets from Geoff. Geoff is very good at making jokes about people, and most of the time they are funny and harmless. But Avilo has written in this very thread that he feels he's being treated disrespectfully by Geoff and it was the first thing he took up when he entered the call.
Now I didn't really think very much of it before this week when Geoff numerous times brought up his "Avilo impression". Stuff like that is what really gets to me because it can be so harmful and it is so asinine. Let me first distinguish the impressions Geoff does that's funny and appropriate from this. That are the impressions that targets groups of people. For example his Swedish accent, or German, or even TBs accent as it's really just a British accent. When it's used in such broad terms I don't think it should or does affect anyone, it's all done in good fun and it's funny.
When you target specific people and make fun of them for a specific demeanor or way of speech, it instantly turns into a dickish move. Why is this? Because it targets that person specifically and opens up potential scrutiny towards that person. If this is done to someone who's Geoff's friend and it goes without saying he's just busting his friends' balls, it's ok. But as far as I know Geoff don't know Avilo that well and they are certainly not good friends. This means that Geoff don't have the information needed to know how Avilo feels about being made fun of for his speech impairment. For all Geoff knows Avilo might have been bullied for this earlier in his life and this brings that up to light (Note that I'm making some assumptions here, if they are not true then my targeted point goes out the window). Geoff knows this and fully agrees with me. Why do I say that? Because he made about the same exact point when talking to Destiny about the use of the word "rape", albeit that targets a lot of people while this targets only one person (perhaps other people with similar speech impairments is offended though I don't know). Also, when Geoff made fun of Kellymilkies he apologized after she took offense to it, why is this situation any different? Avilo is a very controversial figure who certainly gets a lot of hate towards him (much of it he is responsible for himself), he does not have a high status in the community, is making fun of his speech at any rate fair or a justified source of enjoyment? Especially when Geoff as a prominent figure in the community does it in front of thousands of people on multiple shows. I don't think it is nice at all, it's actually quite asinine, and I am surprised Geoff doesn't realize this.
/rant
On the other hand, loved the show and I liked to listen to the TvZ discussion, even though I'm a protoss myself. As Idra has hinted at, TvZ and PvZ are very boring and silly match-ups right now, hopefully HotS will change that!
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i`m impressed that the sponsorship witch hunt is not happening yet...
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On June 30 2012 00:56 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
Wow Idra was being a complete asshole the entire time. He basically rolled over qxc's points the entire time and refused to acknowledge almost any of them, all the while completely theorycrafting about a race he doesnt even play. When they brought Avilo on, he upped his douchebaggery and made numerous personal attacks on Avilo before they uncerimoniously kicked him off the show. While Avilo kind of started off on the wrong foot by asking incontrol why he disliked him so much, he really only interrupted idra one time and idra went nuts and insulted him. Idra talked about these aggro builds terran could do to stop zerg from macroing but didnt really say what they actually were. On top of that, he also claimed the MKP didnt understand the game. If i recall correctly, MKP is a far better player than idra will ever be.
All in all, while avilo didnt necessarily make his points very clear, Idra was very rude to him and essentially ruined the episode for me.
Avilo interrupted IdrA multiple times after idra had let him give his statement.
IdrA said that if zerg gets to lategame and can switch freely between broodlords and ultras and the terran doesn;t have the economy to switch between vikings and marauders then the terran will lose to which Avilo stated that idra was agreeing with him because he said Zerg can get to that point.
This is the equivilent of coming home from school having your mom say you can watch TV after you do your homework and responding that you can watch TV because your mother said you could.
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I dont know why some people are saying the show was bad for having some drama. It was actually one of the more enjoyable SOTG's to watch. I always enjoy the heated balance discussions. (remember day9 vs idra debate? about zerg scouting)
I hate this golf club community at times. Way to serious. I hope to see more controversial episodes in the future.
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On June 30 2012 01:00 justnoob.br wrote:
i`m impressed that the sponsorship witch hunt is not happening yet...
Don't give people any ideas. Always contact the team first.
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On June 30 2012 01:05 Fueled wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 01:00 justnoob.br wrote:
i`m impressed that the sponsorship witch hunt is not happening yet... Don't give people any ideas. Always contact the team first.
Idra and incontrol are too important for the sponsor anyway for it to have any impact at all. Plus, its not like they were racist or anything.
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Why does all the SotG members pronounce Tyler nick as No-ny, while some casters and Tyler his fan threads says it is Nu-ny.
Why is Tyler not correcting them? The only reason would be because it is the right pronunciation, but then why are people saying it wrong?
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Bringing avilo into this show was just stupid...
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I'm not really sure why people are saying that Avilo was "bullied" or treated unfairly. He was brought on because the community screamed for it, and when he came on, he essentially tried to rehash the same discussion that QXC and Idra had earlier on in the show without acknowledging that they had had this discussion or what conclusions they drew from it. (To recap, Avilo was trying to tell us that because of the queen change, Zerg gets a free pass to get full eco and hive tech and tech switch back and forth, while Terran has no ability to cope with the tech switches because they can't keep up economically, and the QXC/Idra discussion yielded that right now, a lot of Terrans are still playing as though it's pre-patch, and that if they recognize what Zerg is doing, which is done with scans, scouting, and game knowledge, they can play such that they keep up with zerg economically.) Basically he came on and ignored the entire discussion that had taken place, and did his best to tell Idra what Idra was trying to say, without giving him a chance to re-explain it. (That's the worst - when someone tells you what you said, and you're telling them that's literally the opposite of what you said.) I'd be irritated too.
Also, didn't Incontrol pimp Avilo's stream a while back? And then Avilo proceeded to whine about how Incontrol had it out for him?
I'm not really sure where this sympathy is coming from.
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On June 30 2012 00:50 MrDudeMan wrote:
Oh man I feel so bad for JP. Had he not brought avilo on there would of been backlash from the community about how they didn't even consider his opinions. But because he brought avilo on, and what we all knew would happen happened, he's getting this backlash instead. This is basically a lose/lose situation for JP, since half of the community always bitches and moans about drama, while the other half sparks it and craves it.
Well here's an idea: How about if a moderator brings a guest on a show, does his job as a host and doesn't act like a douchebag. Isn't that a win/win situation? The drama was there because JP allowed it.
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In summary: IdrA still needs to learn how to deal with obnoxious people better, because there are way worse people out their than Avilo, and no one wants to die of a nerd-heart-attack before they're 35.
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On June 30 2012 01:07 Koshi wrote:
Why does all the SotG members pronounce Tyler nick as No-ny, while some casters and Tyler his fan threads says it is Nu-ny.
Why is Tyler not correcting them? The only reason would be because it is the right pronunciation, but then why are people saying it wrong?
Yes it is Nu-ny, however the artosis way of saying it is really sticking to him, and I suppose that Tyler doesnt really care anymore, its a lost cause to try and undo what artosis did.
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On June 30 2012 00:03 OrbitalPlane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 22:42 HeroMystic wrote:On June 29 2012 21:53 OrbitalPlane wrote:
I just watched the video of STOG. Wth was that avilo situation.
I don't know him and since i am toss i don't have a strong opinion on the TvZ match up. And i have no idea if his opinion on TvZ makes any sense. But THIS is no way to treat a guest on the show. First Idra instults him very badly and then (JP?) drops him from the show without any word about it. i mean WTH did i just watch.
If avilo is kind of a flamer/annoying person or what ever then don't get him on the show.
But please treat your guests with respect. I think everyone on the show except qxc should apologize for this incident.
While I agree that the pillars of the SOTG did very poorly when Avilo popped up, I'd like to say that the previous episode was much worse than this one, and by much worse I mean the worst episode I've watched in awhile. I pretty much stopped watching when Incontrol told the Terran audience (who complained that there was no Terran representative in a TvZ discussion) to basically go kill themselves and everyone else laughed at that. If there was anything that was unprofessional it was that episode. That said, this is not a professional talk show. It's just a show with noteworthy people talking about stuff relevant to the scene. While QXC and Idra made a hefty discussion about TvZ strategy, they did so on their own accord and not because they're being paid for it. In no way should we as the audience be dissatisfied with their discussion as it wasn't an analysis or anything of the sort, and it being a debate was kind of a joke. Avilo popping up was going to be a disaster from the get-go, and they shouldn't have pulled him up. Obviously Idra didn't want to deal with it and he made his point very clear on this thread recently, and InControl was practically begging for shit to go down, especially since he (and somewhat JP) has been making constant jabs at him for quite awhile. If there's anything I'm disappointed about in this episode and before it's the lack of respect, not just for players but for people in general. It seems like as more time goes by the show is becoming more like the Jock table in High School to show that they're better than everyone else. Obviously this doesn't apply to Nony nor any of the guests (Idra/QXC), which is funny because that's three out of the five I'm excluding. While JP handled the Avilo situation very poorly, I'd shift most of the issue to INcontrol for being out of control with his trolling. He's a great host and I like him most of the time (I even watch his stream despite being a Terran player), but his behavior has been pretty unacceptable for the past few episodes. (btw i think this episode was really good besides this incident. The discussion between idra and qxc was very insightful even for me as a protoss player!) I don't think the situation in the previous episode was worse. Even so i don't remember it clearly i am pretty sure Incontrol said it in a joking way. Like you said it's not an official council that decides about the future of sc2. They don't have to have a terran on their show. If they want to talk about the terran perspective without a terran on the show that's their choice. Treating ppl like shit however is a whole different story. This is very true: "If there's anything, I'm disappointed about in this episode and before it's the lack of respect, not just for players but for people in general" But i don't understand why you think it doesn't apply to idra. I think his reaction to avilo was unacceptable. Even if someone makes stupid arguments this is no way to respond. In my opinion there are 2 possible ways to answer: First one is say "yeah sure" (in an ironic way) and end the discussion bc with some ppl you can't argue. (They don't even consider rational arguments ) Or if you think your opponent is open to rational arguments you tell him in a polite way why you think differently. But to tell someone to stfu or to attack him personally that's just something you would expect from a immature 12 year old kid you just stole his toys from. Edit: i just watched the "apology" from JP and incontrol at the end. At least they realized that they crossed a line there. Though the apology did sound lame and i am not sure if they really felt sorry.
Yeah, Incontrol was joking of course and I wasn't really offended. I just found it tasteless and not really witty compared to his other jokes, and when you take the previous "discussion" about TvZ it just put me off. In hindsight it seemed more ill-timed to make a joke like that. I personally don't care if SOTG talks about balance and the metagame without a representative for the race, as long as they actually talk about it. Unfortunately the previous episode was pretty much "Deal with it" and "Use Scans" and "Make a Raven", which was basically no different than any forum post. This is probably why Terran players wanted a terran representative because the previous episode wasn't really thought-provoking at all.
As for Avilo, I'm not really shifting total blame on him, though as said before he did interrupt Idra a number of times, and I know from experience just how annoying that is, and I'm a very tolerant person. Now if Idra, a person who is known for his hostility towards BS and doesn't like to take any of it, I think he did a pretty good job controlling himself all things considered. Idra didn't even want to talk to Avilo from the start and Avilo has constantly been getting trolled by InControl before he even got on the show so I think regardless bad shit was going to happen.
That said I do think QXC wanted to say more than he actually did, but he didn't feel like he was in the position to do so. That's just my opinion though. For all we know QXC probably doesn't believe TvZ is imbalanced.
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On June 30 2012 00:56 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
Wow Idra was being a complete asshole the entire time. He basically rolled over qxc's points the entire time and refused to acknowledge almost any of them, all the while completely theorycrafting about a race he doesnt even play. When they brought Avilo on, he upped his douchebaggery and made numerous personal attacks on Avilo before they uncerimoniously kicked him off the show. While Avilo kind of started off on the wrong foot by asking incontrol why he disliked him so much, he really only interrupted idra one time and idra went nuts and insulted him. Idra talked about these aggro builds terran could do to stop zerg from macroing but didnt really say what they actually were. On top of that, he also claimed the MKP didnt understand the game. If i recall correctly, MKP is a far better player than idra will ever be.
All in all, while avilo didnt necessarily make his points very clear, Idra was very rude to him and essentially ruined the episode for me.
Just because you didn't understand the conversation, that doesn't mean IdrA rolled over any points. That conversation was fine. Qxc would agree, I think. Stop creating drama where it doesn't exist.
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On June 30 2012 01:10 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 01:07 Koshi wrote:
Why do all the SotG members pronounce Tyler nick as No-ny, while some casters and Tyler his fan threads says it is Nu-ny.
Why is Tyler not correcting them? The only reason would be because it is the right pronunciation, but then why are people saying it wrong? Yes it is N u-ny, however the artosis way of saying it is really sticking to him, and I suppose that Tyler doesnt really care anymore, its a lost cause to try and undo what artosis did.
Thanks, I already asked confirmation in the Fan thread but I find it so strange I had to ask it again  .
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Am I the only one to think it's not a big deal? I fail to see why the community should care. It can even be summed up in 3 small phrases:
- The chat set up a trap. JP took the bait. People feign to be offended cause there was not enough drama going on...
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At 6-30-2012 · 01:03 Tantaburs wrote:
On June 30 2012 00:56 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
Wow Idra was being a complete asshole the entire time. He basically rolled over qxc's points the entire time and refused to acknowledge almost any of them, all the while completely theorycrafting about a race he doesnt even play. When they brought Avilo on, he upped his douchebaggery and made numerous personal attacks on
Avilo before they uncerimoniously kicked him off the show. While Avilo kind of started off on the wrong foot by asking incontrol why he disliked him so much, he really only interrupted idra one time and idra went nuts and insulted him. Idra talked about these aggro builds terran could do to stop zerg from macroing but didnt really say what they actually were. On top of that, he also claimed the MKP didnt understand the game. If i recall correctly, MKP is a far better player than idra will ever be.
All in all, while avilo didnt necessarily make his points very clear, Idra was very rude to him and essentially ruined the episode for me.
Avilo interrupted IdrA multiple times after idra had let him give his statement.
IdrA said that if zerg gets to lategame and can switch freely between broodlords and ultras and the terran doesn;t have the economy to switch between vikings and marauders then the terran will lose to which Avilo stated that idra was agreeing with him because he said Zerg can get to that point.
This is the equivilent of coming home from school having your mom say you can watch TV after you do your homework and responding that you can watch TV because your mother said you could.
He straight up interrupted him once. The other times idra had finished talking anyway. His end point wasnt really clear but Idra already hadnt been acknowledging anything he had said. You don't tell someone to STFU and call them "fucking terrible" because you get interrupted. It was rude and uncalled for and disconnecting avilo was downright disrespectful.
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On June 30 2012 01:15 Bellygareth wrote:
Am I the only one to think it's not a big deal? I fail to see why the community should care. It can even be summed up in 3 small phrases:
- The chat set up a trap. JP took the bait. People feign to be offended cause there was not enough drama going on...
lol the chat, really? if jp did half the shit chat suggests he'd be in jail
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EPT
