On September 14 2011 22:11 JayJay_90 wrote: if i recall it correctly he called him a "not fully developed sc2 player" and even asked, if he's even supposed to talk about the matchup Luci - DRG
hmmm how about that! did you see the games? DID YOU SEE THE GAMES?!?!!?
I don't know how you talk as if those games somehow vindicate your comment ad-hoc. Your comment on Lucifron can only be vindicated if you knew about his recent skill/performance. If that were the case, then sure your comment is more than justified. If you did not know much about Lucifron's skill and made that comment on some vague memory from the beta (or worse, his WC3 background) then you simply got lucky, nothing more.
Whaaaaaaaaat? Unless Lucifron had gotten extremely good without making any waves that reach me, which has not happened yet and would be very odd, then that tells me all I need to know about DRG playing a ZvT. You are focusing too much on Lucifron when my job isn't to evaluate Lucifron, it's to evaluate the matchup DRG vs Lucifron. Of course, part of that is evaluating Lucifron. But because DRG ZvT is such an extreme, I only need to ask myself, do I think it's probable that Lucifron is top 5 TvZ player in the world (including Koreans)? No? Then DRG gonna win ezpz (as he said in his own words).
Its a real bummer that Luci had to play DRG first, imo.
He's an incredibly talented player, and I think, against anyone else in the tourney, his play would have really impressed.
But DRG is what? Top 2 in the world ZvT? I don't think him dismantling Luci should be surprising, or damning to Luci.
If Lucifron keeps playing, he'll start producing some good results. And if not, then so be it, but he's still a damn strong player. Much better than anyone has given him credit for.
Well maybe he would have done better, but Lucifron definitely doesn't seem to be doing anything earth-shattering. Attempted a 2 rax the first game, and then the standard reactor hellions expand build. I guess I'm just surprised he tried older more popular openings, with the knowledge of how good DRG is vs. T.
I don't think that comparing Lucifron vs DRG to Thorzain vs DRG is a good mesure of Lucifron's skill right now. I'm sure that time spent in Korea gave Thorzain the know-how for handling with this style of play, while Lucifron may have been surprised by DRG's tactics.
OK I listened again to the cast yesterday night and whoever told me that Artosis was calling Lucifron a one basing nub was fucking lying. He said he was looking forward to Luci v DRG because DRG is used to playing against such a fixed Korean style of Terran and Lucifron could surprise him with some really crazy builds, so even that match up wasn't fixed in DRG's favour.
I already gave my opinion on why what Tyler said was perfectly reasonably earlier in the thread (and so has he, probably more convincingly), but basically it's just a bit depressing to see yet another 20 pages of whining over absolutely fuck all.
On September 19 2011 02:39 aFganFlyTrap wrote: the guys on sotg have always been a bit in the dark when it comes to EU players and guys who are up and coming or dont have a huge reputation. for that you cant blame them but it is frustrating if you follow the EU scene extremely closely that your favourite players arent getting the credit they deserve.
I think this pretty much sums it up. No matter if DRG was the clear favourite, of course he was, it was the arrogant tone in SotG with a complete lack of knowledge that pissed people off.
It would have been worth mentioning atleast that Lucifron's recent impressive TvZ results, but of course they had no idea.
On September 14 2011 22:11 JayJay_90 wrote: if i recall it correctly he called him a "not fully developed sc2 player" and even asked, if he's even supposed to talk about the matchup Luci - DRG
hmmm how about that! did you see the games? DID YOU SEE THE GAMES?!?!!?
I don't know how you talk as if those games somehow vindicate your comment ad-hoc. Your comment on Lucifron can only be vindicated if you knew about his recent skill/performance. If that were the case, then sure your comment is more than justified. If you did not know much about Lucifron's skill and made that comment on some vague memory from the beta (or worse, his WC3 background) then you simply got lucky, nothing more.
Whaaaaaaaaat? Unless Lucifron had gotten extremely good without making any waves that reach me, which has not happened yet and would be very odd, then that tells me all I need to know about DRG playing a ZvT. You are focusing too much on Lucifron when my job isn't to evaluate Lucifron, it's to evaluate the matchup DRG vs Lucifron. Of course, part of that is evaluating Lucifron. But because DRG ZvT is such an extreme, I only need to ask myself, do I think it's probable that Lucifron is top 5 TvZ player in the world (including Koreans)? No? Then DRG gonna win ezpz (as he said in his own words).
Its a real bummer that Luci had to play DRG first, imo.
He's an incredibly talented player, and I think, against anyone else in the tourney, his play would have really impressed.
But DRG is what? Top 2 in the world ZvT? I don't think him dismantling Luci should be surprising, or damning to Luci.
If Lucifron keeps playing, he'll start producing some good results. And if not, then so be it, but he's still a damn strong player. Much better than anyone has given him credit for.
Oh man i would love if you could make an appearance on SotG. Talking about your time in Europe, maybe present the EU scene a bit, your on-going projects, IEM and so on.
I think you would make an amazing guest, you have good knowledge of the game(and you're currently learning protoss) and you're outspoken and eloquent.
On September 19 2011 02:39 aFganFlyTrap wrote: the guys on sotg have always been a bit in the dark when it comes to EU players and guys who are up and coming or dont have a huge reputation. for that you cant blame them but it is frustrating if you follow the EU scene extremely closely that your favourite players arent getting the credit they deserve.
I think this pretty much sums it up. No matter if DRG was the clear favourite, of course he was, it was the arrogant tone in SotG with a complete lack of knowledge that pissed people off.
It would have been worth mentioning atleast that Lucifron's recent impressive TvZ results, but of course they had no idea.
Wrong.
'Well we're saying that DRG got the relatively easy side of the bracket, but Lucifron has been beating every zerg in Europe.'
On September 19 2011 02:39 aFganFlyTrap wrote: the guys on sotg have always been a bit in the dark when it comes to EU players and guys who are up and coming or dont have a huge reputation. for that you cant blame them but it is frustrating if you follow the EU scene extremely closely that your favourite players arent getting the credit they deserve.
I think this pretty much sums it up. No matter if DRG was the clear favourite, of course he was, it was the arrogant tone in SotG with a complete lack of knowledge that pissed people off.
It would have been worth mentioning atleast that Lucifron's recent impressive TvZ results, but of course they had no idea.
Wrong.
'Well we're saying that DRG got the relatively easy side of the bracket, but Lucifron has been beating every zerg in Europe.'
Everyone finds some inane reason to hate SotG, usually due to some local patriotism or something, by twisting every word that the people on the show have said in order to formulate some image of their own worst fear and doubts of a player, a region or a situation.
On September 14 2011 22:11 JayJay_90 wrote: if i recall it correctly he called him a "not fully developed sc2 player" and even asked, if he's even supposed to talk about the matchup Luci - DRG
hmmm how about that! did you see the games? DID YOU SEE THE GAMES?!?!!?
I don't know how you talk as if those games somehow vindicate your comment ad-hoc. Your comment on Lucifron can only be vindicated if you knew about his recent skill/performance. If that were the case, then sure your comment is more than justified. If you did not know much about Lucifron's skill and made that comment on some vague memory from the beta (or worse, his WC3 background) then you simply got lucky, nothing more.
Whaaaaaaaaat? Unless Lucifron had gotten extremely good without making any waves that reach me, which has not happened yet and would be very odd, then that tells me all I need to know about DRG playing a ZvT. You are focusing too much on Lucifron when my job isn't to evaluate Lucifron, it's to evaluate the matchup DRG vs Lucifron. Of course, part of that is evaluating Lucifron. But because DRG ZvT is such an extreme, I only need to ask myself, do I think it's probable that Lucifron is top 5 TvZ player in the world (including Koreans)? No? Then DRG gonna win ezpz (as he said in his own words).
Its a real bummer that Luci had to play DRG first, imo.
He's an incredibly talented player, and I think, against anyone else in the tourney, his play would have really impressed.
But DRG is what? Top 2 in the world ZvT? I don't think him dismantling Luci should be surprising, or damning to Luci.
If Lucifron keeps playing, he'll start producing some good results. And if not, then so be it, but he's still a damn strong player. Much better than anyone has given him credit for.
Well maybe he would have done better, but Lucifron definitely doesn't seem to be doing anything earth-shattering. Attempted a 2 rax the first game, and then the standard reactor hellions expand build. I guess I'm just surprised he tried older more popular openings, with the knowledge of how good DRG is vs. T.
Lucifrons play had nothing to do with facing DRG. Lucifron played terrible. Bad positioning. Bad plans, bad control. It might be nerves, but he definitely looked like the worst player of those 8.
yer he didnt play anywhere near his best hider. it was like watching a whole different player. we should get rotti on sotg before mrbitter :D
it was a good bracket for both thorzain playing all protoss till finals and DRG playing 3 terrans.
luci has been beating all the zergs in europe but that series win over mana at IEM qauls a few weeks back where he 2-0d? was for me a absolute beautiful series to watch and made me think his bio dance/ghost control was even better than thorzain/kas's
all this sort of shit is what makes following the scene so bloody good
as a former war3 player/fan Europe is just so fucking good to follow as you know all the players and all the stories and you feel a greater affinity with them then the other continents.
rotti summed it up perfectly at IEM#2 qaul on why we love EU
On September 16 2011 01:26 MrCon wrote: One thing I don't get is how the GSL format is responsible for having too much terrans. Unless you change it to an invitational I don't know how any format can have an influence on the races. (btw, the invitationals keep inviting more korean terrans than every other race xD) Too much terrans in code S, 2 terrans qualified in code A with 6 protoss and 6 zergs qualified in code A. How can a format change the results, race wise ?
This is off-topic I know but how the hell did MrCon get banned :O?
On September 16 2011 01:26 MrCon wrote: One thing I don't get is how the GSL format is responsible for having too much terrans. Unless you change it to an invitational I don't know how any format can have an influence on the races. (btw, the invitationals keep inviting more korean terrans than every other race xD) Too much terrans in code S, 2 terrans qualified in code A with 6 protoss and 6 zergs qualified in code A. How can a format change the results, race wise ?
This is off-topic I know but how the hell did MrCon get banned :O?
On September 16 2011 01:26 MrCon wrote: One thing I don't get is how the GSL format is responsible for having too much terrans. Unless you change it to an invitational I don't know how any format can have an influence on the races. (btw, the invitationals keep inviting more korean terrans than every other race xD) Too much terrans in code S, 2 terrans qualified in code A with 6 protoss and 6 zergs qualified in code A. How can a format change the results, race wise ?
This is off-topic I know but how the hell did MrCon get banned :O?
On September 16 2011 01:26 MrCon wrote: One thing I don't get is how the GSL format is responsible for having too much terrans. Unless you change it to an invitational I don't know how any format can have an influence on the races. (btw, the invitationals keep inviting more korean terrans than every other race xD) Too much terrans in code S, 2 terrans qualified in code A with 6 protoss and 6 zergs qualified in code A. How can a format change the results, race wise ?
This is off-topic I know but how the hell did MrCon get banned :O?
LR Thread:
On September 18 2011 02:44 MrCon wrote:
On September 18 2011 02:42 Jayrod wrote: Really surprised to hear that TvP is someone's best matchup...
vP is every race's current best matchup, protoss included. It's like vZ 10 months ago.
User was temp banned for this post.
Haha. Not a terrible comment, but zero tolerance on balance comments is a must for those live report threads.
I wouldn't even call it a balance whine. It's just a simple statistic really.
The thing about DRG vs Lucifron was that it was the most one sided series I've ever witnessed where one player doesn't make any huge major mistakes but is getting beaten in every single way. Out macroed, outmicroed, out positioned, out strategised. I think SOTG got it right.
On September 19 2011 03:49 Micket wrote: The thing about DRG vs Lucifron was that it was the most one sided series I've ever witnessed where one player doesn't make any huge major mistakes but is getting beaten in every single way. Out macroed, outmicroed, out positioned, out strategised. I think SOTG got it right.
For high level play lucifron made lots of bad plays (which i will categorize as big mistakes). Bad turret placement. Bad tank placement. Bad positioning of marines. He made lots of the same mistakes which low master league players makes.
Lucifron has been playing great and he was my underdog for winning the tournament and I felt like he had a chance. But I really feel like his nerves took the best of him, he could of played better than that. And for players who may not know him so well will easily dismiss him I'm afraid. =/ Lucifron! If you're reading this, keep on keeping on!
I definately agree that he underestimated DRG. With his bad Turret placement. Same with Thorzain, he had poor turret placement and we didnt' see a change in his game play until game 3/4 where he started to add a lot more turrets since DRG was massing Mutas and had great muta control.
On September 19 2011 03:57 aFganFlyTrap wrote: for you to say no major mistakes were made when luci played that poorly. it doesnt leave your post with much credibility
When I say no major mistakes, I mean things like forgetting stim, no engie bay, trapping thors between buildings... playing badly in general I don't consider major mistakes. If my turret is out of position, I don't always lose the game. If I forget siege mode when pushing, I lose the game.
Lucifron did many of what I call 'minor mistakes', which other pros have done before. You can play poorly and make no major mistakes - just look up a random tennis match between Federer and some dude ranked 100 below him. Is the other guy 'making major mistakes' every single rally? No, he's just outclassed.
EPT
