EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1391
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outerspace02
United States136 Posts
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Neorosis
United States18 Posts
I also enjoyed Leah's presence, as she has clearly done her homework and added some good perspective on other outside aspects of the game and scene. All-in-all, was an enjoyable podcast, thanks all involved! | ||
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MrDudeMan
Canada973 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:30 Gamegene wrote: Like what, "TSL3 was really epic." Yeah. Inspired insight there. We can get more of that here on TL. Really? You're going to sum up her explanation and fail to mention the reasoning she had behind it? | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
her response was "the matches were really epic...the games were really awesome". Not really more than that from what I can tell, no "inspired play" or "I thought that____from the game was really interesting", or there was "___drama going on", just "the tourney was well-run and the games were amazing" On July 20 2011 15:25 MrDudeMan wrote: I think the problem with the discussions is that the show is sort of ran in a "talk when asked" style. For example theres been weeks when tyler has barely said anything at all, because he wasn't asked as much or he was asked last. And last week, sheth (someone who has a plethora of SC2 zerg knowledge) really didn't say anything at all because he wasn't asked. However the "talk when asked" thing works for getting normally quiet people (naniwa) to talk more, kind of a weird situation. But you are right, it is jp's show. Pretty much exactly this. Before Incontrol was willing to break format and just interrupt whenever he felt he had to say something, and everyone else followed suit, but now everyone just kind of toes the line and lets JP ask his dry, bland, boriing-ass questions without interjecting even if they have something to add. Basically suggestions for the show: 1. Come up with better questions, not just bland facebook-surveyesque "Favorite tourney/matchup/player", etc. They yield responses no better than player profile type blurbs and don't really generate discussion. 2. Loosen up the show format- rather than having JP go around the table, GIVE A 1 WORD RESPONSE BEFORE ALLOWING EXPLANATIONS, and often only having 1 person answer a question, even if the other pillars/guests may have something to say, just put general topics out there like he used to- GSL games, what did you think of the play/anything you could learn/critiques, and not just "grade how the tournament went", cause you can answer that question without actually talking about Starcraft at all. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:35 MrDudeMan wrote: Really? You're going to sum up her explanation and fail to mention the reasoning she had behind it? Oh I'm sorry I offended you. "TSL3 was really epic. The series was really good and came down to the last game and the last fight." There. Does it make her insight any more valuable than anyone else on the forum? Nope. | ||
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Cotillion37
Canada94 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:25 Mordiford wrote: I feel like the redundancy argument in regards to Leah and JP would actually make sense if their responses, or the nature of their responses were actually redundant, but they have yet to simply sit there and echo each other with the non-progamer point of view that people seem somewhat fixated on. What did anyone else on the show really add that Leah was unable to? She watches a ton of games, does event coverage, writes articles relating to eSports and the Starcraft 2 scene. Really, I'm still wondering what it is that people don't like here, I'm not sure if it's what she's saying, because on the episodes she's been on, she hasn't seemed like the odd one out as far as the quality of dialog goes. So is it simply when Tyler and Dan say something, even if the quality of what's being said is the same, it's Tyler or Dan saying it so it's worthwhile but when it's a non-progamer it's wasted time on the show? I don't think that's really a wrong answer, because the speaker's reliability is important, but in regards to the topics she's contributed on the show, I don't think it's particularly relevant. If JP asked, "So, how do you guys feel about the state of the game?" and she responded with Gold league happenings, perhaps it wouldn't be the most apt point of view to have on the show, but the closest we've gotten to that was the most desired patch/change question which was hardly anything at all. If people simply want a pro-gamer only show with JP acting as the host and mediating discussion, that's one thing, I don't think that's really wrong, I just don't agree, I think there are plenty of non-progamers who can offer insight worth having on the show and so far, Leah has been one of them. My problem is that it limits the discussions that they can have by including more than one person who isn't a pro (especially when there are a limited amount of people on the show such as this week). At least with tonight's episode, it seemed more like the questions were questions that you would see posted on a forum, like "who are your favourite five players?", "which has been your favourite tournament to watch?", etc etc. I don't know if that's because JP didn't have enough time to prepare or didn't really have much to talk about, or if he was trying to have more general questions in order to get everyone talking. | ||
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ArturosII
Australia54 Posts
This show in particular Leah's comments were as worthwhile and as in depth as everyone elses except maybe in one or two questions. I do feel that people see a woman or see a not-pro player and instantly have this bias of 'Why are they here this is pro's only?!'. Worse because she's the combination. Since her last show she has been streaming laddering more so maybe she'll improve and maybe she's going to try to get better so that people have less to complain about. My only real complaint is that the show seems to have gone from something that would have me in tears of laughter to something much drier. Ever since the break between last year and this. I originally started listening and enjoying because the feel of it was just a bunch of guys who love this game talking about what was going on. This could be in-game or out-game. Obviously the talking points were pre thought up and such but it just feels less a discussion show now and more a Q&A. I dunno I think I just wish the cast would engage with each other more. But that's just one mans opinion and what one man likes. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:40 ArturosII wrote: It's really interesting reading people complain about these things. At first I had the typical thoughts of 'yeah yeah just bitching because she's a woman' and then thought more and realised that it doesn't matter who is on people will find something to complain about. Hell I want to complain a little but not about the guests. This show in particular Leah's comments were as worthwhile and as in depth as everyone elses except maybe in one or two questions. I do feel that people see a woman or see a not-pro player and instantly have this bias of 'Why are they here this is pro's only?!'. Worse because she's the combination. Since her last show she has been streaming laddering more so maybe she'll improve and maybe she's going to try to get better so that people have less to complain about. My only real complaint is that the show seems to have gone from something that would have me in tears of laughter to something much drier. Ever since the break between last year and this. I originally started listening and enjoying because the feel of it was just a bunch of guys who love this game talking about what was going on. This could be in-game or out-game. Obviously the talking points were pre thought up and such but it just feels less a discussion show now and more a Q&A. I dunno I think I just wish the cast would engage with each other more. But that's just one mans opinion and what one man likes. your comment would make sense if people were giving Leah the Lindsey Sporrer treatment, or "DUDE SHE'S SO HOT BUT SHE DOESNT KNOW ANYTHING ROFL", but people have legit complaints- she's a gold league player, and she can't contribute anything about talking about the game itself- sure she can talk about how she watched these tournaments and likes these players, but anyone can do that. I can do that. A bronze league player can do that. It's fine to get people's opinions on how tournaments went, but if you want that just go to an LR thread. SoTG used to (and should be) about having top-level players talking about the "State of the game"- the matchups, the gameplay, how players have been playing in tournaments and what part of their gameplay is good and bad. Having Leah there is a liability cause she can't really comment on that aspect of the game no more than any other gold league player can. I'm not trying to put her down for that; I'm no master league player myself, but neither I nor Leah deserve to be on a cast that should be about the game itself and how the dynamics of the gameplay are working, and no one at a below-pro level really has anything worthwhile to add to that. It means that if in the future Leah's on again (still don't know if she's permanently on the show) and they do have balance discussions, it's going to be between Tyler/Artosis because JP keeps himself out of those discussions (and rightfully so) and Leah can't really contribute anything either. It's easy to throw out the obvious argument- people hating on Leah cause she's a girl- but that's just not it- SoTG is primarily a show about high-level players talking about the game, and she just doesn't belong in that role. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:48 jmbthirteen wrote: Man, people really like to complain. Just enjoy the damn show. Leah didn't say anything wrong or terrible. Was it the most in depth? No, but neither were the "pros" answers. They really weren't supposed to be. And that's the problem...the pros answers weren't in depth because no in depth questions were asked- it was a bland Q/A what was the best/worst ____ series of questions for like an hour. | ||
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Takezou
United States320 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:40 Gamegene wrote: Oh I'm sorry I offended you. "TSL3 was really epic. The series was really good and came down to the last game and the last fight." There. Does it make her insight any more valuable than anyone else on the forum? Nope. The others had plenty of quotes that had less analysis than that. /shrug | ||
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Laboof
United States113 Posts
Imagine day 9 + tastosis + tyler + jp ^_________^ | ||
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Chriscras
Korea (South)2812 Posts
. . . alright, besides Seltzer  | ||
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Ansalem
564 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:50 DystopiaX wrote: And that's the problem...the pros answers weren't in depth because no in depth questions were asked- it was a bland Q/A what was the best/worst ____ series of questions for like an hour. JP was doing a year of SC2 in retrospect feature. It's not because Leah was on the show. Not every episode is in-depth matchup theorycrafting. -.- | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2595 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:25 MrDudeMan wrote: I think the problem with the discussions is that the show is sort of ran in a "talk when asked" style. For example theres been weeks when tyler has barely said anything at all, because he wasn't asked as much or he was asked last. And last week, sheth (someone who has a plethora of SC2 zerg knowledge) really didn't say anything at all because he wasn't asked. However the "talk when asked" thing works for getting normally quiet people (naniwa) to talk more, kind of a weird situation. But you are right, it is jp's show. I see your point, but it's worth pointing out that, with six people in a discussion, allowing anyone to interrupt when they feel they have something to contribute would lead to total chaos. Maybe if people IMed JP an exclamation point or something when they wanted to talk? That would sort of balance the two extremes of talking whenever you want and talking only when addressed, and it might also help the problem that some of the contributors are obviously not paying attention to the conversation. | ||
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TooN
1046 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:48 jmbthirteen wrote: Man, people really like to complain. Just enjoy the damn show. Leah didn't say anything wrong or terrible. Was it the most in depth? No, but neither were the "pros" answers. They really weren't supposed to be. This doesn't make sense. How do people "just" enjoy the show? If there are issues and problems with the show... people are going to complain. People don't "just" enjoy the show for the sake of it. Don't take complaining to be so negative, its more criticism. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On July 20 2011 15:59 AmericanUmlaut wrote: I see your point, but it's worth pointing out that, with six people in a discussion, allowing anyone to interrupt when they feel they have something to contribute would lead to total chaos. Maybe if people IMed JP an exclamation point or something when they wanted to talk? That would sort of balance the two extremes of talking whenever you want and talking only when addressed, and it might also help the problem that some of the contributors are obviously not paying attention to the conversation. I'm pretty sure they know how to have a six person discussion. Everyone has probably talked with more than 6 of their friends numerous times in their life. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On July 20 2011 16:04 TooN wrote: This doesn't make sense. How do people "just" enjoy the show? If there are issues and problems with the show... people are going to complain. People don't "just" enjoy the show for the sake of it. Don't take complaining to be so negative, its more criticism. Because I see people saying how Leah doesn't belong on the show because she doesn't offer in depth answers about why TSL 3 was her favorite, when Artosis and Tyler didn't offer in depth reasons behind their answers. If Artosis or Tyler had Leah's answer, word for word, those people wouldn't be saying a thing. | ||
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
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