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On July 20 2011 14:44 cENTRYZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 14:42 Fanta_Rules wrote:On July 20 2011 14:38 Ansalem wrote:
I think one of the biggest problems with casters joking is when they put one out there and their co-caster just slams them down or even just ignores the joke. Wolf and Unstable.  I can get why unstable slams down Wolf's jokes though, since they're simply not funny. Unstable is the most dry guy ever, you have to joke like every minute, if not the whole studio will catch on fire.
Wolf does it with everyone though, and while he can be funny sometimes he shoots out so many jokes that most of them fall flat as hell,which is why I find his casting so annoying. I think he'd be fine if he eased back on the jokes and had someone like Artosis to provide the analytical commentary that most code A duos have been lacking.
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On July 20 2011 14:49 Mauldo wrote:
And constructive criticism isn't just criticizing something while saying it's constructive. You actually have to tell them how to fix it or do as I said, give them something good/then the bad/then the fix.
Well the answer most people want is pretty obvious: don't have her on the podcast.
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Really good show. Questions were a bit awkward, but still the best SC2 podcast around. Hope they are able to do a show next week!
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Just watched with my girlfriend. Her one comment was that Leah seemed to just sit there and smile more often than she said something, and that she didn't bring much to the show. I don't mind her on the show and only talking occasionally, but when there are only four people and one of them isn't playing an active role in the discussion, it's pretty noticeable and I feel that it takes away from the overall quality. I think they should have brought on another pro or something.
And another comment is that one of the final discussions (the one about cracking jokes while casting) could also be applied to SotG. When incontrol was on the show, it seemed to be more lighthearted and funny and it made the show more enjoyable for me as a viewer. Lately the humour just hasn't been there. I'd like to see someone brought in that can fill the void left by incontrol.
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Not much humor on this show. It was still a good show but without Day9 or Incontrol the show becomes very dry.
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On July 20 2011 14:51 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 14:49 Mauldo wrote:
And constructive criticism isn't just criticizing something while saying it's constructive. You actually have to tell them how to fix it or do as I said, give them something good/then the bad/then the fix. Well the answer most people want is pretty obvious: don't have her on the podcast.
Another problem is the show is called SOTG and having Leah on the entire length of the episode is too much, she isn't a pro. Having her on to talk about amateur level play for a part of the show once in a while would be ok.
Had to tune out before the end because I just didn't care enough about the questions JP was asking. Also was lacking a Terran and Zerg perspective even though Artosis was trying to talk about ZvP. Wasn't any interesting stories or talk about gameplay either.
I listen to SOTG to hear things that you wouldn't hear anywhere else and tonight I wasn't feeling it. Will probably give next week a shot but don't know if I can stick with it if day9 can't add the missing factor.
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On July 20 2011 14:56 bwally wrote:
Had to tune out before the end because I just didn't care enough about the questions JP was asking. Also was lacking a Terran and Zerg perspective even though Artosis was trying to talk about ZvP. Wasn't any interesting stories or talk about gameplay either.
BINGO!
Honestly can we just get a bunch of pro gamers together with Day[9] and Artosis and just have them talk a bunch of shit. That would be MUCH better than having to deal with this classroom style of answering JP's extremely bland questions which yield little response since guests are only given a few seconds to give an appropriate answer.
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I don't know... I think Leah adds an interesting perspective with the coverage she does as part of her job, and also from the perspective of someone who only spectates (though JP also does that). In terms of not contributing much, that can often be said of many of hosts at different points. Tasteless being on was a great example... he just sat there even though everyone loved having him on. (Btw, have him on the show again. Socke too.)
Regardless, they aren't capped at 4 people or anything like that...
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I don't really get how people can bash on leah for not having game experience but are ok with jp. At least Leah has answers to the questions, jp spent more time thinking about answers then he did answering them (although the tyler answer was something people have been wanting to ask for a long time). I think for one of the questions he didn't even have an answer. The only questions where Leah gave answers that were "more vanilla" then the other guests was probably the top 5 players/who you expected to do great and did ones. And that's just because she didn't follow SC1. Her answer to worst tournament being IEM was justified because of the broken 5-Rax reaper at the time, and it definitely wasn't an average opinion (I don't think anyone even talks about that anymore). I like both jp and leah on the show, I just think its weird that people are quick to talk about her lack of game knowledge but let jp have the pass. Sure he may be the host, but he's not even a great host, last week he did a poor job of including sheth and leah in the conversation. Though this week it was somewhat better.
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On July 20 2011 15:02 Chicane wrote:
I don't know... I think Leah adds an interesting perspective with the coverage she does as part of her job, and also from the perspective of someone who only spectates (though JP also does that). In terms of not contributing much, that can often be said of many of hosts at different points. Tasteless being on was a great example... he just sat there even though everyone loved having him on. (Btw, have him on the show again. Socke too.)
Regardless, they aren't capped at 4 people or anything like that...
1. They don't ask her about her job.
2. Exactly, that's why we don't need two of the same type of people on a show with only 4 people total.
On July 20 2011 15:05 MrDudeMan wrote:
I don't really get how people can bash on leah for not having game experience but are ok with jp. At least Leah has answers to the questions, jp spent more time thinking about answers then he did answering them (although the tyler answer was something people have been wanting to ask for a long time). I think for one of the questions he didn't even have an answer. The only questions where Leah gave answers that were "more vanilla" then the other guests was probably the top 5 players/who you expected to do great and did ones. And that's just because she didn't follow SC1. Her answer to worst tournament being IEM was justified because of the broken 5-Rax reaper at the time, and it definitely wasn't an average opinion (I don't think anyone even talks about that anymore). I like both jp and leah on the show, I just think its weird that people are quick to talk about her lack of game knowledge but let jp have the pass. Sure he may be the host, but he's not even a great host, last week he did a poor job of including sheth and leah in the conversation. Though this week it was somewhat better.
That's easy. JP is the host and directs the entire SOTG, Leah is a guest. JP was first, Leah is a guest and came after. When you have JP, you have 0 use of another non-player.
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I personally like leah, but I also feel as if the show feels much drier when the big personalities such as Idra/Day9/Inc are missing. I didn't watch the full episode because it got very boring.
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On July 20 2011 15:06 StyLeD wrote:
That's easy. JP is the host and directs the entire SOTG, Leah is a guest. JP was first, Leah is a guest and came after. When you have JP, you have 0 use of another non-player.
And let's get extremely brutal and honest here:
JP does stuff with MLG, Leah writes stuff for some site that the vast majority of viewers don't know/care about.
No one wants hear about G4. People love MLG and actually care about it.
And if she wasn't a girl there would be no interest in her at all from the audience.
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On July 20 2011 15:06 StyLeD wrote:
That's easy. JP is the host and directs the entire SOTG, Leah is a guest. JP was first, Leah is a guest and came after. When you have JP, you have 0 use of another non-player.
So why have artosis and tyler? Tyler is a better P player then artosis, and Day9 is as good a caster. Its not like artosis really knows more about the GSL then anyone else does?
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I really hope next week that Leah is gone so we can either have someone that is more entertaining/knowledgeable about the game or so that we can hear Tyler&Artosis talk more. I'm sorry but I think its pretty obvious that she is only there because she is a cute looking girl; something that people shouldn't care about in a podcast.
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On July 20 2011 15:12 MrDudeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 15:06 StyLeD wrote:
That's easy. JP is the host and directs the entire SOTG, Leah is a guest. JP was first, Leah is a guest and came after. When you have JP, you have 0 use of another non-player. So why have artosis and tyler? Tyler is a better P player then artosis, and Day9 is as good a caster. Its not like artosis really knows more about the GSL then anyone else does?
Artosis is a pretty iconic figure in the SC2 community. That and he's a pretty good guy from what I can tell. At least he's offering something. I don't dislike Leah, but I personally feel that until she knows more about the game or gets better at it, she doesn't have much of a place on the show outside of guest appearances every once in a while. It's upsetting to see someone sit there, smile and not offering a lot to discussion. But I mean, hey, this isn't my show, this is JP's show. If he truly feels Leah is best to fit their slots right now, then so be it.
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I think the problem with the discussions is that the show is sort of ran in a "talk when asked" style. For example theres been weeks when tyler has barely said anything at all, because he wasn't asked as much or he was asked last. And last week, sheth (someone who has a plethora of SC2 zerg knowledge) really didn't say anything at all because he wasn't asked. However the "talk when asked" thing works for getting normally quiet people (naniwa) to talk more, kind of a weird situation. But you are right, it is jp's show.
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On July 20 2011 15:06 StyLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 15:02 Chicane wrote:
I don't know... I think Leah adds an interesting perspective with the coverage she does as part of her job, and also from the perspective of someone who only spectates (though JP also does that). In terms of not contributing much, that can often be said of many of hosts at different points. Tasteless being on was a great example... he just sat there even though everyone loved having him on. (Btw, have him on the show again. Socke too.)
Regardless, they aren't capped at 4 people or anything like that... 1. They don't ask her about her job. 2. Exactly, that's why we don't need two of the same type of people on a show with only 4 people total. Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 15:05 MrDudeMan wrote:
I don't really get how people can bash on leah for not having game experience but are ok with jp. At least Leah has answers to the questions, jp spent more time thinking about answers then he did answering them (although the tyler answer was something people have been wanting to ask for a long time). I think for one of the questions he didn't even have an answer. The only questions where Leah gave answers that were "more vanilla" then the other guests was probably the top 5 players/who you expected to do great and did ones. And that's just because she didn't follow SC1. Her answer to worst tournament being IEM was justified because of the broken 5-Rax reaper at the time, and it definitely wasn't an average opinion (I don't think anyone even talks about that anymore). I like both jp and leah on the show, I just think its weird that people are quick to talk about her lack of game knowledge but let jp have the pass. Sure he may be the host, but he's not even a great host, last week he did a poor job of including sheth and leah in the conversation. Though this week it was somewhat better. That's easy. JP is the host and directs the entire SOTG, Leah is a guest. JP was first, Leah is a guest and came after. When you have JP, you have 0 use of another non-player.
The show isn't capped at 4 people, so this is entirely a non-issue.
I feel like the redundancy argument in regards to Leah and JP would actually make sense if their responses, or the nature of their responses were actually redundant, but they have yet to simply sit there and echo each other with the non-progamer point of view that people seem somewhat fixated on. What did anyone else on the show really add that Leah was unable to? She watches a ton of games, does event coverage, writes articles relating to eSports and the Starcraft 2 scene.
Really, I'm still wondering what it is that people don't like here, I'm not sure if it's what she's saying, because on the episodes she's been on, she hasn't seemed like the odd one out as far as the quality of dialog goes.
So is it simply when Tyler and Dan say something, even if the quality of what's being said is the same, it's Tyler or Dan saying it so it's worthwhile but when it's a non-progamer it's wasted time on the show? I don't think that's really a wrong answer, because the speaker's reliability is important, but in regards to the topics she's contributed on the show, I don't think it's particularly relevant.
If JP asked, "So, how do you guys feel about the state of the game?" and she responded with Gold league happenings, perhaps it wouldn't be the most apt point of view to have on the show, but the closest we've gotten to that was the most desired patch/change question which was hardly anything at all.
If people simply want a pro-gamer only show with JP acting as the host and mediating discussion, that's one thing, I don't think that's really wrong, I just don't agree, I think there are plenty of non-progamers who can offer insight worth having on the show and so far, Leah has been one of them.
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On July 20 2011 15:02 Chicane wrote:
I don't know... I think Leah adds an interesting perspective with the coverage she does as part of her job, and also from the perspective of someone who only spectates (though JP also does that). In terms of not contributing much, that can often be said of many of hosts at different points. Tasteless being on was a great example... he just sat there even though everyone loved having him on. (Btw, have him on the show again. Socke too.)
Regardless, they aren't capped at 4 people or anything like that...
The episode where they had Tasteless on the show is also the one where people were constantly bitching at each other about stuff and getting in to huge arguments. While it was awesome having him on, he couldn't really contribute to a discussion that's between incontrol and Tyler talking about whatever their issues were. It was a shame that he had to be on that particular episode because I would have loved to hear him talk more about the game. They even made a joke at the end that Machine and Tasteless were the only ones who didn't get in to a massive argument with each other on that episode.
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On July 20 2011 15:25 Mordiford wrote:
If people simply want a pro-gamer only show with JP acting as the host and mediating discussion, that's one thing, I don't think that's really wrong, I just don't agree, I think there are plenty of non-progamers who can offer insight worth having on the show and so far, Leah has been one of them.
Like what, "TSL3 was really epic."
Yeah. Inspired insight there.
We can get more of that here on TL.
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EPT
