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On May 14 2011 23:21 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 23:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:If you don't like it, fine, that's your prerogative, but there's no reason to shit on SC2 just because it's a different game. He doesn't shit on it. You perceiving it that way is typical of how 90%+ of community members read and respond to things. Whenever people read something contrary to their opinions, they take it as more extreme and wide and encompassing than it actually is, and then take a shit on some made up argument that's a product of their poor comprehension and misguided passion. He said that a. SC2 is not enjoyable for him to watch because b. the level of play is so much lower than BW which is a result of c. sc2 players not taking it at seriously as BW professionals and grinding enough practice Not liking something because it does not conform to his very specific standards of excellence DOES seem like he is shitting on it, at least in it's CURRENT state. How you like this, when you fit into the part he dislikes about the game (i.e. a player who doesn't practice as much as a BW a-teamer), I don't know....
Let's look at what he says instead of making up some stuff that he may have implied.
"The three GSL winners, FruitDealer, NesTea, and MC - objectively, they are remarkable players. FruitDealer is always a joy to behold, with his schizophrenic tech paths and compulsive risk-taking. Detective NesTea seems to find every sneaky probe red-handed and guilty-faced with its stupid little proxy pylon, like an Easter bunny that hides turds instead of eggs. The Kratoss MC just dispassionately stomps kids all day. All have shown themselves to be capable under pressure, and all have posted great results."
This paragraph is literally right after the sentence "The competition in SC2 so far has been a farce."
How is it that you can't tell the difference between what is written above and "shitting on" something?
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As i said in the elephant in the room thread:
Saying that one kind of training is the best doesn't work in any individual sport. Some people are better suited for mechanical grinding type of practice and some need a more open ended kind of training. Quoting GuemChi, who explicitly said that the ST training wasn't for him but in no way objectively bad, and then saying "What he's saying is that ST training IS bad" is not objective nore constructive.
Using stats from 1-3 years ago isn't constructive either. I was a junior swim athelete and i saw alot of young awesome swimmers who never made it big, i also saw alot of pretty average/crappy swimmers that developed immensely and now compete in european championships. The article focuses on the BW friendly parts of the variables but forget that there's just so much more that affects how people develop and play besides old statistics.
Other than that the whole article is full of small jabs at SC2 while there's just love for BW. Using hype quotes about how great Flash/Jaedong are doesn't prove anything. Every sport has these kind of hype quotes from coaches/players about how awesome and godlike the top tier atheletes are. It's no true testament to how great they are, it's more about building buzz around the scene. (Not saying that these players aren't awesome, just that those quotes didn't belong)
There's alot of valid criticism and in my opinion the article is just very one sided and not as objective and constructive as it could have been.
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The flow of the podcast is MUCH better when Sean isn't there. He's obnoxious and unfunny most of the time and doesn't provide any interesting insight.
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On May 15 2011 00:22 NoXious90 wrote:
The flow of the podcast is MUCH better when Sean isn't there. He's obnoxious and unfunny most of the time and doesn't provide any interesting insight.
I think you will find that to be a rare opinion.
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I honestly don't get all the commotion around that article, he just stated his opinion, which by the way is completely rational, and that's basically it.
He uses some sources to support his point, and it's his freedom to think that bw is more enjoyable for him than sc2, by saying that bw is more estabilished/serious/whatever.
And that's completely TRUE, noone in his right mind is gonna deny that, or else, he's a clown.
Sc2 is only a year old, and even if it "stands" on the shoulders of bw/wc3, it's not there yet (expecially bw ofc).
Noone can blame him for preferring a more enstabilished "activity" over a newer one.
This should be obvious jeez....
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Today's GSL final clearly displayed the quality of SC2 as a spectator esport.
Most most underwhelming finals of all time of a 1 year old game. Don't forget the previous ones where not better, just less uninteresting.
A deeply disappointed fan.
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On May 15 2011 00:33 kasumimi wrote:
Today's GSL final clearly displayed the quality of SC2 as a spectator esport.
Most most underwhelming finals of all time of a 1 year old game. Don't forget the previous ones where not better, just less uninteresting.
A deeply disappointed fan.
Whatever you say.
Personally I think TSL shows the opposite. I was tied to my chair while watching the epic games on TSL.
Just because you don't liked the GSL finals doesn't mean that SC2 is a bad spectator esport. That's gotta be the retarded quote of the day. (Hopefully).
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On May 15 2011 00:33 kasumimi wrote:
Today's GSL final clearly displayed the quality of SC2 as a spectator esport.
Most most underwhelming finals of all time of a 1 year old game. Don't forget the previous ones where not better, just less uninteresting.
A deeply disappointed fan.
One player getting totally dominated cause he's obviously really bad at the matchup is somehow indicative of SC2 as a esport?
Get a grip man, the better player won.
It's like saying football is uninteresting cause Barcelona beat Real Madrid 5-0 with 70%+ ball posession in a game.
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Yep, there were plenty of one sided BW finals as well. The most infamous being Boxer vs Yellow. Recently see Fantasy vs Stork.
Every GSL finals except for the second has been pretty shitty though.
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On May 15 2011 00:41 zerglingsfolife wrote:
Yep, there were plenty of one sided BW finals as well. The most infamous being Boxer vs Yellow. Recently see Fantasy vs Stork.
Every GSL finals except for the second has been pretty shitty though.
Wasn't that Nestea against Foxer who just kept on 2 raxing, or am I misremembering?
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On May 15 2011 00:43 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 00:41 zerglingsfolife wrote:
Yep, there were plenty of one sided BW finals as well. The most infamous being Boxer vs Yellow. Recently see Fantasy vs Stork.
Every GSL finals except for the second has been pretty shitty though. Wasn't that Nestea against Foxer who just kept on 2 raxing, or am I misremembering?
Yeah, but at least the games were back and forth. Every other series has been completely one sided.
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People.. THERE'S NOTHING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE, TWO-SIDED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT ABOUT THAT ARTICLE. Why does anything have to become a myriad of disclaimers [about how by saying we don't like the competition in starcraft 2 does not say anything about your mother's BF percentage, etc] to make a point is beyond me, but the article made a point. It was an elephant in the room for everybody. It was something many people wouldn't have liked to see on the front page of teamliquid.. But this is a community website. You know what's the point of a community website? To discuss things. To make your points freely. To not have to get banged into a wall of idiots calling you an insensitive clod just because they think you didn't write a mandatory bar of a million of disclaimers when doing that. Please, just let members of community that have been here since the dawn of time to speak. It's their privilege.
Some of the hate about the timing and/or the publicity of the article being on the front page is ridiculous. Just think about it: There's hundreds of articles that are nothing but praise for the game, yet when an article about something that half of the old-school community is constantly thinking about is written, it is met with hate that the praising articles never saw.
I'm kind of sorry for every oldschool member of the community for that.. I mean, they worked their asses off to make TL what it is, and yet when they want to express their opinion in the same way they do every day, just negatively this one time, they're met with hate.
I guess I'm running in circles here, but really, it's sad to see the way things work around here nowadays.
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Thanks to JP and crew for saving GSL night (release the VOD!).
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On May 15 2011 01:30 chickensmasher wrote:
Thanks to JP and crew for saving GSL night (release the VOD!).
What did they do?
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On May 15 2011 00:33 kasumimi wrote:
Today's GSL final clearly displayed the quality of SC2 as a spectator esport.
Most most underwhelming finals of all time of a 1 year old game. Don't forget the previous ones where not better, just less uninteresting.
A deeply disappointed fan.
It's not the game; it's the players.
GSL has had the unfortunate luck of getting highly mismatched finals where one player is hugely unprepared, nervous, and/or simply outmatched.
Nestea was just a much better player, and Inca's terrible PvZ only multiplied the situation. JulyZerg was completely unprepared against MC's builds. MKP tends to get nervous and choke, especially against a stronger player like MVP. Rain literally cheesed his way to the finals whereas MC was an overall better player. Rainbow/HopeTorture was completely outplayed by Fruitdealer's brilliant, ballsy play.
If Nestea vs sC happened to be the finals, then people would be singing a different tune. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if standing ovations happened all over the world had that final game of that series been the final game of the finals.
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Let's just all close our collective eyes, pretend the nestea/inca series never happened, and from this moment forward refer to the nestea/sc series as the finals.
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there is 2 points of viuwe to the game and game balance : that is statiscitc (balance) and gameplay (what is hepening in game)
from statistic (blizzard point of viuwe game is balanced)but : exemples : maraders < zealot (that is truth fro statistics if marader is stending and zealots come to him and kill him )
but gameplay shows that stimed maraders run and shot at zealot and zealot is dead...(this is yust exemples)
or exemple whay they nerf thors (from statistic thor is op vs toss ) simply unite is too strong there is few unites that conter thors... like imortall and thor (from statistics is stronger than imortal)
but gameplay show : that imortall is coming with 5 or 6 stalkers that also do good dps vs thors...
so agean gameplay shows that statistic is wrong....
or mutalisc > void ray : from statistic point of viuwe
but in gameplay void ray comes with death ball colloss and mass stalkers that rape mutalisc...
so you can see the point what i say i think you do  .... so from gamepaly we i think can see game imbalance and state of game...and not from statistics....
I THINK that blizzard should look more gameplay than statistic of balance... and fix game to be more interesting to play and whatch than now.... simply i think stim pack colloss banglings FF need to be revorked...
zerg now with infestor buff have cance to skilp mid game and to go on T3 that vs terran is preaty imba i think... ( i sugest that seige tanks need buff in dps from 50 to 60 vs armored FOR PTR yust sugesting in that case) simply ultralisc are to much for seige tanks...this is yust my opinion SRY for my ENG thx for reading... 
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Does anyone know if he will upload the viewing party?
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I love it when Geoff and the others essentially psychoanalyze the community.
I'm just kind of interested in how people work and a lot of the time what he's saying makes sense. People want to get their opinions out there because they want to feel like they're a part of something. And often times, those opinions aren't really thought through at all, which can result in some really stupid posts.
Hell, even me replying to this thread probably has no real purpose aside from fueling a small part of my ego. I want to be right. I want some form of acknowledgement from a higher power or something. It's pretty silly when you think about it, and It's the same with most people in this community and many others.
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EPT
