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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1033

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Spicy Pepper
Profile Joined December 2009
United States632 Posts
May 07 2011 19:28 GMT
#20641
idra has solid points about the luck factor. The other races can implement a coin toss when playing against zerg. This is due to zerg's inability to scout early game. Basically zerg's rely on basic mistakes by toss and terran to scout or get a read. Having that ability is bad game design, and any player playing a superior zerg opponent can implement those coin flips.

Idra saying zerg is underpowered is possible that it's true, but possibly wrong.
MonsieurGrimm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada2441 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 19:40:29
May 07 2011 19:32 GMT
#20642
On May 08 2011 04:15 Voltaire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 03:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.

I don't think anyone can say that idras ignorance doesnt have an effect on some of his fans anymore after a statement like this.


Idra isn't responsible for what his fans take from what he says/does. The person who suffers from Idra's attitude the most is Idra... By blaming his losses on balance he'll focus less on improving regardless of whether or not the game is actually balanced.

there's no evidence of this. playing amateur psychiatrist is all well and good but there's no proof that the mindset idra has is causing him to focus less on improving.


On May 08 2011 03:54 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.

I don't think anyone can say that idras ignorance doesnt have an effect on some of his fans anymore after a statement like this.

you keep calling IdrA ignorant but I'm curious why. obviously he's very vocal and doesn't have as much experience with the other two races but could you please explain?
"60% of the time, it works - every time" - Brian Fantana on Double Reactors All The Way // "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
Twiggs
Profile Joined January 2011
United States600 Posts
May 07 2011 19:43 GMT
#20643
Isn't it too early to call anything imbalanced? Its fine when there are simple and obvious flaws in a game. Usually those get cleaned up in beta phases (which Blizzard did!). But trying to balance a game based off of new metagame shifts (aka "imbalances") is extremely hard because again, its too early to call it an obvious problem.

I know Day 9 didn't really back up his opinion too well but I share his opinion. Saying a loss is due to an imbalance is unhealthy for the growth of the game. Its much better to focus on your own play rather than complain like Idra.

Idra is a great player, but unless his complaining leads Blizzard to patch a change, his whining will not help him win games. And even if it did and he wins more games his whining DID NOT make him a better player. Because all the time and brain power he spends talking about imbalances could have been used elsewhere.
My life for Auir | FLASH . JD . BISU . HERO . Nony . Incontrol . FIGHTING
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
May 07 2011 19:48 GMT
#20644
I don't get all the IdrA should stop complaining and just get better/practice comments.

He obviously is one of the best (if not the best) non-koreans in the world. He practices a ton and has a better understanding of this game than almost anyone in the world. Yes he complains. But he is constantly improving and learning at the same time. Occasionally he will have a defeatist I can't win attitude but that doesn't stop him from improving. I mean just a month ago his ZvP was awful. Now he is ripping apart protosses left and right.

And of course he's going to voice his opinion about balance. Regardless of what some of you think, blizzard does listen to pros opinions. Hell there was some controversy along time ago where checkprime had a bunch of email correspondence with david kim about balance and some of the korean players were complaining that it was the reason terran nerfs and zerg buffs occurred. Blizzard definately listens and since this is his livelihood of course IdrA will talk.
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 19:58:49
May 07 2011 19:54 GMT
#20645
--- Nuked ---
rpgalon
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil1069 Posts
May 07 2011 20:02 GMT
#20646
On May 08 2011 04:54 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 04:32 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.

I don't think anyone can say that idras ignorance doesnt have an effect on some of his fans anymore after a statement like this.

you keep calling IdrA ignorant but I'm curious why. obviously he's very vocal and doesn't have as much experience with the other two races but could you please explain?

He, like many, insist that his point of view is the most/only correct one and has complained about balance since brood war about things he thinks are wrong, about many things that aren't. In my eyes, he thinks that discussing balance is about him being right instead of finding out what actually is right and doesn't take the other races points of view into account. Of course some of the concerns he expresses are correct, but what he doesn't do is think of what would happen if they fixed those things. Quick example: he thinks zergs can't scout/have a hard time scouting early game and this is imbalanced. One part of that statement can be somewhat correct, however coming to the conclusion that it's imbalanced isn't really correct since we don't know if it actually is required to maintain balance, because i would say zerg benefits most from having complete information in the situation he wants more information gaining possibilties. In short, he's ignorant because he can't accept not always being right and doesn't take other points of views into account, only his own, it's of course always somewhat related arrogance too. My opinion at least.

The main reason i care and don't like his non stop complaining about balance, no matter what game, race, etc, is that it effects people who listen to him, and think he is "always" right, some of those don't understand what he's often doing is venting and shouldn't be taken seriously. Then they come on here and defend his "venting" statements as balance facts.


I could not say better
badog
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
May 07 2011 20:06 GMT
#20647
On May 08 2011 04:54 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 04:32 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.

I don't think anyone can say that idras ignorance doesnt have an effect on some of his fans anymore after a statement like this.

you keep calling IdrA ignorant but I'm curious why. obviously he's very vocal and doesn't have as much experience with the other two races but could you please explain?

He, like many, insist that his point of view is the most/only correct one and has complained about balance since brood war about things he thinks are wrong, about many things that aren't. In my eyes, he thinks that discussing balance is about him being right instead of finding out what actually is right and doesn't take the other races points of view into account. Of course some of the concerns he expresses are correct, but what he doesn't do is think of what would happen if they fixed those things. Quick example: he thinks zergs can't scout/have a hard time scouting early game and this is imbalanced. One part of that statement can be somewhat correct, however coming to the conclusion that it's imbalanced isn't really correct since we don't know if it actually is required to maintain balance, because i would say zerg benefits most from having complete information in the situation he wants more information gaining possibilties. In short, he's ignorant because he can't accept not always being right and doesn't take other points of views into account, only his own, it's of course always somewhat related arrogance too. My opinion at least.

The main reason i care and don't like his non stop complaining about balance, no matter what game, race, etc, is that it effects people who listen to him, and think he is "always" right, some of those don't understand what he's often doing is venting and shouldn't be taken seriously. Then they come on here and defend his "venting" statements as balance facts.


So who should people listen to other than idra?

Listening to Day9 will not help zergs get better tourney results.
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 20:09:29
May 07 2011 20:07 GMT
#20648
--- Nuked ---
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
May 07 2011 20:11 GMT
#20649
On May 08 2011 05:07 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:06 Mailing wrote:
On May 08 2011 04:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 04:32 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.

I don't think anyone can say that idras ignorance doesnt have an effect on some of his fans anymore after a statement like this.

you keep calling IdrA ignorant but I'm curious why. obviously he's very vocal and doesn't have as much experience with the other two races but could you please explain?

He, like many, insist that his point of view is the most/only correct one and has complained about balance since brood war about things he thinks are wrong, about many things that aren't. In my eyes, he thinks that discussing balance is about him being right instead of finding out what actually is right and doesn't take the other races points of view into account. Of course some of the concerns he expresses are correct, but what he doesn't do is think of what would happen if they fixed those things. Quick example: he thinks zergs can't scout/have a hard time scouting early game and this is imbalanced. One part of that statement can be somewhat correct, however coming to the conclusion that it's imbalanced isn't really correct since we don't know if it actually is required to maintain balance, because i would say zerg benefits most from having complete information in the situation he wants more information gaining possibilties. In short, he's ignorant because he can't accept not always being right and doesn't take other points of views into account, only his own, it's of course always somewhat related arrogance too. My opinion at least.

The main reason i care and don't like his non stop complaining about balance, no matter what game, race, etc, is that it effects people who listen to him, and think he is "always" right, some of those don't understand what he's often doing is venting and shouldn't be taken seriously. Then they come on here and defend his "venting" statements as balance facts.


So who should people listen to other than idra?

Listening to Day9 will not help zergs get better tourney results.

I'm not saying don't listen to him, I'm saying take what he says with a huge grain of salt and seperate the educational information you can extract from his "whine".

edit; of course you shouldn't only listen to 1 person though obviously no matter what race you play or who you are a fan of, the more people you listen to the better perspective you get i would say.


Except people do.

The minority who do take everything 100% literally are not going to stop because you point something like this out. You have to learn to ignore some people to a point.
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
MonsieurGrimm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada2441 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 20:16:36
May 07 2011 20:12 GMT
#20650
On May 08 2011 04:54 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 04:32 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.

I don't think anyone can say that idras ignorance doesnt have an effect on some of his fans anymore after a statement like this.

you keep calling IdrA ignorant but I'm curious why. obviously he's very vocal and doesn't have as much experience with the other two races but could you please explain?

He, like many, insist that his point of view is the most/only correct one and has complained about balance since brood war about things he thinks are wrong, about many things that aren't. In my eyes, he thinks that discussing balance is about him being right instead of finding out what actually is right and doesn't take the other races points of view into account. Of course some of the concerns he expresses are correct, but what he doesn't do is think of what would happen if they fixed those things. Quick example: he thinks zergs can't scout/have a hard time scouting early game and this is imbalanced. One part of that statement can be somewhat correct, however coming to the conclusion that it's imbalanced isn't really correct since we don't know if it actually is required to maintain balance, because i would say zerg benefits most from having complete information in the situation he wants more information gaining possibilties. In short, he's ignorant because he can't accept not always being right and doesn't take other points of views into account, only his own, it's of course always somewhat related arrogance too. My opinion at least.

The main reason i care and don't like his non stop complaining about balance, no matter what game, race, etc, is that it effects people who listen to him, and think he is "always" right, some of those don't understand what he's often doing is venting and shouldn't be taken seriously. Then they come on here and defend his "venting" statements as balance facts.

See, I haven't ever seen him in a discussion with someone where he simply refused to accept someone else's viewpoint. Whenever somebody brings him a point, he has a counter-point and usually the discussions end on a "well neither of us is logically correct, it comes down to what you believe/what your opinion is" such as Day9 thinking that balance discussion is pointless vs. IdrA thinking that it isn't.

Obviously there are times when he vents, but you can usually tell between venting and discussion. For instance, IdrA saying on his stream "oh look, a protoss. he might actually be a challenge" is venting because playing against Protoss (and playing StarCraft in general) is frustrating. However, stating facts about the earlygame (zerg can't scout, spine crawlers can't be used reactively, zerglings are useless against wall-ins) and then tying those together into an argument for zerg earlygame being imbalanced is a discussion.

Day9 didn't really bring up any counterpoints, but Tyler brought up a good point in saying that it wasn't necessarily an imbalance, it was just that Protosses and Terrans were flipping coins and Zergs didn't seem to want to flip with them and thus Protosses and Terrans were getting early game advantages a lot of the time for free. Then, IdrA did change his viewpoint on the matter somewhat, from what I can tell. His viewpoint changed from "Earlygame zerg is underpowered" to "early game zerg is a cointoss, and while that's not necessarily imbalanced that's fucking terrible game design". That's something most people can probably agree on. Of course, I'm not IdrA so that's just my perception of it.

I agree with you that people listening to the venting and taking it as fact is a problem, but I also agree with Mailing that those people (who take everything pros say as fact) are kind of hopeless no matter who they listen to. Obviously you should value their opinion over that of your fellow scrub, but you should always think about what you hear no matter who it comes from.
"60% of the time, it works - every time" - Brian Fantana on Double Reactors All The Way // "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
sinii
Profile Joined August 2010
England989 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 20:14:44
May 07 2011 20:13 GMT
#20651
On May 08 2011 05:06 Mailing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 04:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 04:32 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.

I don't think anyone can say that idras ignorance doesnt have an effect on some of his fans anymore after a statement like this.

you keep calling IdrA ignorant but I'm curious why. obviously he's very vocal and doesn't have as much experience with the other two races but could you please explain?

He, like many, insist that his point of view is the most/only correct one and has complained about balance since brood war about things he thinks are wrong, about many things that aren't. In my eyes, he thinks that discussing balance is about him being right instead of finding out what actually is right and doesn't take the other races points of view into account. Of course some of the concerns he expresses are correct, but what he doesn't do is think of what would happen if they fixed those things. Quick example: he thinks zergs can't scout/have a hard time scouting early game and this is imbalanced. One part of that statement can be somewhat correct, however coming to the conclusion that it's imbalanced isn't really correct since we don't know if it actually is required to maintain balance, because i would say zerg benefits most from having complete information in the situation he wants more information gaining possibilties. In short, he's ignorant because he can't accept not always being right and doesn't take other points of views into account, only his own, it's of course always somewhat related arrogance too. My opinion at least.

The main reason i care and don't like his non stop complaining about balance, no matter what game, race, etc, is that it effects people who listen to him, and think he is "always" right, some of those don't understand what he's often doing is venting and shouldn't be taken seriously. Then they come on here and defend his "venting" statements as balance facts.


So who should people listen to other than idra?

Listening to Day9 will not help zergs get better tourney results.


How about listening to Nestea who says he is "confident" about playing a Protoss in the finals because they don't give him too many problems at the moment?
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
May 07 2011 20:15 GMT
#20652
On May 08 2011 05:13 sinii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:06 Mailing wrote:
On May 08 2011 04:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 04:32 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.

I don't think anyone can say that idras ignorance doesnt have an effect on some of his fans anymore after a statement like this.

you keep calling IdrA ignorant but I'm curious why. obviously he's very vocal and doesn't have as much experience with the other two races but could you please explain?

He, like many, insist that his point of view is the most/only correct one and has complained about balance since brood war about things he thinks are wrong, about many things that aren't. In my eyes, he thinks that discussing balance is about him being right instead of finding out what actually is right and doesn't take the other races points of view into account. Of course some of the concerns he expresses are correct, but what he doesn't do is think of what would happen if they fixed those things. Quick example: he thinks zergs can't scout/have a hard time scouting early game and this is imbalanced. One part of that statement can be somewhat correct, however coming to the conclusion that it's imbalanced isn't really correct since we don't know if it actually is required to maintain balance, because i would say zerg benefits most from having complete information in the situation he wants more information gaining possibilties. In short, he's ignorant because he can't accept not always being right and doesn't take other points of views into account, only his own, it's of course always somewhat related arrogance too. My opinion at least.

The main reason i care and don't like his non stop complaining about balance, no matter what game, race, etc, is that it effects people who listen to him, and think he is "always" right, some of those don't understand what he's often doing is venting and shouldn't be taken seriously. Then they come on here and defend his "venting" statements as balance facts.


So who should people listen to other than idra?

Listening to Day9 will not help zergs get better tourney results.


How about listening to Nestea who says he is "confident" about playing a Protoss in the finals because they don't give him many problems at the moment?

After going the last 5 months complaining just as much as idra? Eh.

Also, nestea shouldn't be afraid of inca.
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
taintmachine
Profile Joined May 2010
United States431 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 20:26:54
May 07 2011 20:24 GMT
#20653
On May 07 2011 17:37 darkscream wrote:
I think Day9 did a good job at conveying his open-minded philosophy but Idra had a very solid points founded in his firsthand knowledge of the competitive scene. Day9 refused to talk about specific examples because he has no real answers - only a whimsical attitude that the answer will reveal itself to zerg seers one day soon and that clearly the pros aren't trying enough different things.


there were no specific examples given by idra, and day9 asked for specific examples. a specific example would be a game, or multiple games, that played out the way idra said, not a theorycrafted situation or a vague anecdote about previous experiences. idra could probably give day9 replays of games, but he didn't at the time and reasonably couldn't given sotg's format and purpose (idra also probably could have recalled games specifically, he almost did when he mentioned he used span's build in nasl). day9 took a skeptical approach to idra's complaints. that's pretty much it.
sinii
Profile Joined August 2010
England989 Posts
May 07 2011 20:25 GMT
#20654
On May 08 2011 05:15 Mailing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 05:13 sinii wrote:
On May 08 2011 05:06 Mailing wrote:
On May 08 2011 04:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 04:32 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:54 zeru wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.

I don't think anyone can say that idras ignorance doesnt have an effect on some of his fans anymore after a statement like this.

you keep calling IdrA ignorant but I'm curious why. obviously he's very vocal and doesn't have as much experience with the other two races but could you please explain?

He, like many, insist that his point of view is the most/only correct one and has complained about balance since brood war about things he thinks are wrong, about many things that aren't. In my eyes, he thinks that discussing balance is about him being right instead of finding out what actually is right and doesn't take the other races points of view into account. Of course some of the concerns he expresses are correct, but what he doesn't do is think of what would happen if they fixed those things. Quick example: he thinks zergs can't scout/have a hard time scouting early game and this is imbalanced. One part of that statement can be somewhat correct, however coming to the conclusion that it's imbalanced isn't really correct since we don't know if it actually is required to maintain balance, because i would say zerg benefits most from having complete information in the situation he wants more information gaining possibilties. In short, he's ignorant because he can't accept not always being right and doesn't take other points of views into account, only his own, it's of course always somewhat related arrogance too. My opinion at least.

The main reason i care and don't like his non stop complaining about balance, no matter what game, race, etc, is that it effects people who listen to him, and think he is "always" right, some of those don't understand what he's often doing is venting and shouldn't be taken seriously. Then they come on here and defend his "venting" statements as balance facts.


So who should people listen to other than idra?

Listening to Day9 will not help zergs get better tourney results.


How about listening to Nestea who says he is "confident" about playing a Protoss in the finals because they don't give him many problems at the moment?

After going the last 5 months complaining just as much as idra? Eh.

Also, nestea shouldn't be afraid of inca.


Your confirming my point, Nestea worked out his weaknesses and turned it around, listen to the guy and watch him and Zergs have a solution.

As much as Idra fan boys don't like to hear it, Idra's biggest problem is that he is convinced that his own weakness in certain match ups is the games problem and not his.
kardinal
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden154 Posts
May 07 2011 20:26 GMT
#20655
TSL results, sup pillars?
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 20:34:43
May 07 2011 20:28 GMT
#20656
--- Nuked ---
Beef Noodles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States937 Posts
May 07 2011 20:28 GMT
#20657
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.

LOL

Yeah dude, IdrA is really bad. You're right. >.>
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
May 07 2011 20:35 GMT
#20658
--- Nuked ---
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
May 07 2011 22:49 GMT
#20659
Focusing on solely on a few cons of zerg while not looking at the big picture is not the way to discuss balance. Zergs arguably has the most to gain from a early scout as they can saturate bases faster than the other races, maybe that's why blizzard are reluctant to change this?

There's so many factors yet zergs just focus on their percieved problems without thinking objectively. I'm not completely objective either but i don't play at the moment so i have nothing to gain from nerfs/buffs at this point.
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 22:55:02
May 07 2011 22:50 GMT
#20660
On May 08 2011 04:03 Ottoxlol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2011 03:40 Leavzou wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
On May 08 2011 03:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I think Inca is a really good player. I know I complained a lot previously about ZvP matchups when I faced Anypro, but in practice I was win rate against them were around 90%, so I have some confidence in the matchup.


Thats from Nestea's latest interview. Maybe IdrA's problem isn't his race, its just that he's not as good as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's no Nestea.


Yes. If he really thinks zerg is broken he would have switched ages ago. He knows he's bad, this whole thing is an act.


Yes he is obviously bad, he was just the best foreigner in BW and is still the best foreigner on SC2 right now with jinro.


Following his "logic", if hes really the best, why doesnt he switch and win more $?

Probably for the same reason MorroW switched from T to Z even back when T was by far the most powerful race. It's completely undeniable that MorroW had much more consistent and impressive results as a T player, yet he still switched because he enjoyed the Zerg playstyle more. Idra has said stuff along similar lines.

Also, I think most people calling Idra biased have just as much of a biased viewpoint themselves, so they should really instead try to counter his arguments (rather than his attitude), which I found actually quite solid for the most part.
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