EPT[D] Zerg creep: Killing the Zerg spirit? - Page 14
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Deleted User 72834
247 Posts
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revy
United States1524 Posts
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Schtrudel
Romania56 Posts
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GIGAR
Denmark88 Posts
Creep would, instead of a speed increase, give +1 armor. (but only for the owner of the creep, perhaps) Zerg defending on creep early game would have an advantage, and it would still be pretty beneficial to spread creep all across the map - But if you didn't, you would still have the mobility. (and having Hydras as an attacking force would suddenly be interesting) [Edit] Discussed it with a few friends. If Zerglings, Queens and Roaches did not get the speed buff baked-in, this could potentially work. | ||
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Schtrudel
Romania56 Posts
Terran / Protoss units being little slower on creep would be very nice and interesting idea. Imagine poping creep with overlords on enemy mineral line to decrease probe/scv speed probes , drones and scv's hover , it wouldnt do any good What if creep speed was baked into normal movement for Zerg (except for Queens, perhaps?). Creep would, instead of a speed increase, give +1 armor. (but only for the owner of the creep, perhaps) Zerg defending on creep early game would have an advantage, and it would still be pretty beneficial to spread creep all across the map - But if you didn't, you would still have the mobility. (and having Hydras as an attacking force would suddenly be interesting) how about they get a yamato cannon instead , i guess yamatolings wouldbe pretty decent | ||
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duckii
Germany1017 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
On September 02 2010 22:43 quarky wrote: Maybe this unit will help in HotS, whatever it is( or is that a tumor?) :p + Show Spoiler + That looks like a very sick Roach. | ||
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JQL
United States214 Posts
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sooch
Canada299 Posts
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Azile
United States339 Posts
On September 03 2010 02:39 Melancholia wrote: Wait, this thread is still alive? How did I miss this... That looks like a very sick Roach. Those are infestors. http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=infestor&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=909 | ||
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farseerdk
Canada504 Posts
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
On September 02 2010 20:05 LSGamer wrote: Dammit people stop trying to lower the APM ceiling to Terrans level! And Hydra speed is the same as a zealot. Stop whining and get over it What does unit speeds have to do with APM rofl? And what does the speed of the Zealot have to do with a flaw in the creep mechanic rofl. Don't try to throw down a Chewbacca Defense. The Creep is an interesting mechanic yes, but the fact is that the Zerg's mobility is drastically cut off creep, which is probably why we're seeing more Ling/Muta play now a days as opposed to anything else, as mutas and lings are the least effected by creep. | ||
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Three
Japan278 Posts
But the unit speed difference really does encourage zerg to play too defensively for my taste (no amount of APM and concentration can get creep to an opponents base on a big map when you want to start attacking) | ||
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Achaia
United States643 Posts
On September 03 2010 05:03 RoarMan wrote: What does unit speeds have to do with APM rofl? And what does the speed of the Zealot have to do with a flaw in the creep mechanic rofl. Don't try to throw down a Chewbacca Defense. The Creep is an interesting mechanic yes, but the fact is that the Zerg's mobility is drastically cut off creep, which is probably why we're seeing more Ling/Muta play now a days as opposed to anything else, as mutas and lings are the least effected by creep. You guys are just looking at it the wrong way. Zerg's mobility isn't cut off when they're off creep, it's boosted when they're on creep! How's that for a glass half full mentality? ;-) Haha no in all seriousness though, this is just a new Zerg mechanic that Zerg players have to get used to. As mentioned earlier in the thread, it not only gives you a great deal of mobility but it also gives you a ton of free scouting if you cover as much of the map as possible in creep. | ||
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DoomFox
Canada51 Posts
On September 03 2010 05:21 Achaia wrote: You guys are just looking at it the wrong way. Zerg's mobility isn't cut off when they're off creep, it's boosted when they're on creep! How's that for a glass half full mentality? ;-) Haha no in all seriousness though, this is just a new Zerg mechanic that Zerg players have to get used to. As mentioned earlier in the thread, it not only gives you a great deal of mobility but it also gives you a ton of free scouting if you cover as much of the map as possible in creep. Incorrect. "Great deal of mobility" but only on creep and less mobility off of creep. The thread is about the slowness of Zerg off creep and the fact that it's impossible to have creep where it's critically needed, especially on offense. The argument is if creep is more of a burden than a bonus to Zerg. As it is currently it feels more like the former than the latter. | ||
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
On September 02 2010 20:05 LSGamer wrote: Dammit people stop trying to lower the APM ceiling to Terrans level! And Hydra speed is the same as a zealot. Stop whining and get over it Zealots can be upgraded, Hydras can not. Hydras take a lot of gas. And the army that the Zealot is with functions very differently. | ||
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Frem
France13 Posts
- the starting hatch would be able to spwan one creep tumor, or one tumor is here at the beginning OR - Queen Starts with 50 energy, but this one would be quite OP after the first queen to pop because of the Transfusion. Because the starting creep is fine, but I hate to have to sacrifice either one larva injection. Btw making a 2nd queen early is kind of standard now. | ||
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Tippereth
United States252 Posts
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akbal
Australia13 Posts
This is why you find the standard action of Z is to expand instead of attack. Whilst not entirely imbalanced (either way), I feel this cuts off Z's playstyle options, and pushes them into a defencive/boring gameplan more often than not. | ||
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
A defensive race is most powerful when fighting near their base, or after having had time to set up. This is clear with Terran, as they are most powerful when fighting at their own ramp or at a choke. With Protoss it's more mixed, as Terran units on a ramp aren't too horribly handicapped. An offensive race is the converse, they are most capable when fighting at their opponent's base. This was true of Zerg in Brood War, considering that if they were fighting at their own front door they would have limited abilities to flank, and reinforcements would be vulnerable as they spawn. More importantly, fighting at the opponent's base meant that you could retreat if you had to. ZvT illustrates this brilliantly, as most of the early game was spent with the Zerg taking Zerglings and Mutalisks to the Terran base in order to force him to keep his units at home, or to buy time for the Mutalisks to slowly wear away at any force the Terran sends out. The Zerg army in BW would break if stressed too hard, and thus needed the ability to be flexible so that a single forced stand wouldn't lead to defeat. There are no offensive races in StarCraft 2. Enemy walls are so strong, and early Zerg units so slow, that you can't take the fight to the enemy. With creep the Zerg are most powerful fighting at home. The risk of a Zergling backstab is severely lessened by the enemy's ability to summon their wall at nearly any time, and Mutas control so much less effectively than the perfect control in BW that Turrets and Marines can hold much more easily. This is part of the reason that Mutas are built now more to contain than to harass, given that any attempt to harass is likely to lead to heavy losses. It isn't until late game that creep will have spread far enough to open most of the map to engagement, and a race can't be offensive if it's limited to that late in the game, after innumerable pushes must already have been fought off. | ||
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