On August 19 2010 13:41 blacktoss wrote:
I think such a thread would be redundant or too close to theorycraft to be worthwhile. :p
I think such a thread would be redundant or too close to theorycraft to be worthwhile. :p
yeah u r right.
Forum Index > SC2 General |
Antares777
United States1971 Posts
On August 19 2010 13:41 blacktoss wrote: I think such a thread would be redundant or too close to theorycraft to be worthwhile. :p yeah u r right. | ||
mutant
United States31 Posts
On August 19 2010 14:02 blacktoss wrote: My arguments are not made by theorycrafting. I am essentially transcribing what I see and what I hear on replays and analyses into a coherent thought. Maybe I am completely wrong. This is completely possible because I am not the one playing in tournaments or making these commentaries. I am listening and trying to learn. This is what I have learned. If I have learned it wrong, I would like to be corrected. And similarly, my opinions come from analyzing the game from a design perspective. Zerg were designed to be a macro-heavy mobile race, and using creep to provide this mobility is inherently unsound, as it runs completely counter to this design. | ||
Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
As a player, its just not fun to have your units slowed down or in any other way physically impaired (Z players complaining here are evidence enough, but see also "ensnare" from SC1, "Fungal growth," and those stupid conc shells). Since any vZ matchup with this mechanic would involve slowing, inevitably, youd run into the problem that as a player, its really not fun to have your units default-slowed by the creep, especially early game when you dont have the means to take it out. Therefore, a way of creating the same advantage is to make friendly units faster since it 1) makes your side more fun (theoretically) and 2) does not affect the opponent directly, ie, it doesnt take away from their fun. Its a win-win situation in theory, but in practice, its turning out to be a double-sided sword. They should just try making the bonus a little less (say, 10% instead of the 30% it gives now). Same max speed, greater off-creep speed. If some units get too stupid (roach, hydra) just nerf em delicately. | ||
Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
There is a balance aspect to it and a design one. Balancewise Zerg need a buff, maybe via creep but I don´t think that is the real issue Zerg have. Zerg SHOULD have the incentive to spread creep and engage the enemy on it. A few of the change suggestion simply break that, HP-regen is NOT a incentve to have creep all over the map or risking a Overlord to bring creep to a battle. Movementspeed is a great incentive for both and makes intuitive sense. You also need to consider that the opposition isn´t supposed to just watch as a Zerg spreads creep if that gives him an advantage. Tumors are kinda well protected via stealth, it takes a resourceinvestment to counter that, certainly more than it takes the Zerg to create them. Overlords are kinda bad Targets/Damagesponges as they are cheap for the Zerg - since they grant control instead of requiring it the real cost is the larvae. | ||
Melancholia
United States717 Posts
On August 19 2010 16:36 Unentschieden wrote: Zerg SHOULD have the incentive to spread creep and engage the enemy on it. A few of the change suggestion simply break that, HP-regen is NOT a incentve to have creep all over the map or risking a Overlord to bring creep to a battle. Movementspeed is a great incentive for both and makes intuitive sense. Why should Zerg have an incentive to engage the enemy on it? So long as engaging on creep is significantly advantageous Zerg encounters off it won't be viable unless the race as a whole is broken. I agree that Zerg should have an incentive to spread creep, but when they feel the need to only engage on it you've run straight into the real problem here, that the race can't expect to pressure without putting themselves at undue risk. If you take away the speed buff creep still gives you vision and blocks enemy expansions. This is a significant enough benefit that good players would spread it regardless. Adding the speed benefit means that a balance has to be struck between Zerg being too strong on creep and too weak off it, which still means that the "only attack when an enemy push failed" response will stay. You need to be SURE of your advantage when pushing because you are already certain of the disadvantage you will face when going for it. Adding something like regen, or cheaper/free Nydus Worms on creep would both encourage hit and run tactics. In battle you would be equally effective on and off creep, so the only difference would be that you want it close by so you either can get up to full strength faster or get away instantaneously when the enemy's reprisal comes. I particularly like having regen as the creep bonus because of the excellent synergy with burrow; making your units invisible and healing them to full at the risk of being found and destroyed while helpless. Plus, when pushing an enemy won't know if the army you just retreated from his forces burrowed just out of sight to heal or fled to the rally for reinforcements. The Zerg ambush would return. Even better, let burrowed units be invisible while moving under creep, so when you're on your home turf you have the full advantage of surprise. Having it so that Zerg likes being on their home creep, so that they have more options there, would be so much better than having their army be flatly better on creep than off. | ||
pechkin
158 Posts
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On August 19 2010 17:11 Melancholia wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2010 16:36 Unentschieden wrote: Zerg SHOULD have the incentive to spread creep and engage the enemy on it. A few of the change suggestion simply break that, HP-regen is NOT a incentve to have creep all over the map or risking a Overlord to bring creep to a battle. Movementspeed is a great incentive for both and makes intuitive sense. Why should Zerg have an incentive to engage the enemy on it? Fundamentally because it´s unique to the race, makes Creep more than a build limitation and allows ALL Zerg units to have good mobility (given their respective roles). Some units are mobile without it, some aren´t. On August 19 2010 17:11 Melancholia wrote: So long as engaging on creep is significantly advantageous Zerg encounters off it won't be viable unless the race as a whole is broken. That might be the case right now but remember that the advantage isn´t equal overall. Some units don´t rely on Creep, others do but it´s always an advantage. Off creep encounters should be LIMITED not straight DISADVANTAGED. I´m arguing on the design principle here, not current balance reality. On August 19 2010 17:11 Melancholia wrote: I agree that Zerg should have an incentive to spread creep, but when they feel the need to only engage on it you've run straight into the real problem here, that the race can't expect to pressure without putting themselves at undue risk. They should be able to pressure without creep, yes. But as the game develops and Zerg get more opporunities to spread creep they should also require to spread creep more. That is why I´d rather buff Zergs abilities to spread creep than to make them less reliant on it. On August 19 2010 17:11 Melancholia wrote: If you take away the speed buff creep still gives you vision and blocks enemy expansions. This is a significant enough benefit that good players would spread it regardless. Adding the speed benefit means that a balance has to be struck between Zerg being too strong on creep and too weak off it, which still means that the "only attack when an enemy push failed" response will stay. Again, it´s not "all zerg rule on creep / all zerg suck off creep". They obviously can´t have creep everywhere and can´t be expected to always fight on Creep, and the units in these situations need to function without Creep. However there also are situations where the Zerg is expected to have creep and the units for THESE situations SHOULD rely on creep. On August 19 2010 17:11 Melancholia wrote: You need to be SURE of your advantage when pushing because you are already certain of the disadvantage you will face when going for it. Adding something like regen, or cheaper/free Nydus Worms on creep would both encourage hit and run tactics. In battle you would be equally effective on and off creep, so the only difference would be that you want it close by so you either can get up to full strength faster or get away instantaneously when the enemy's reprisal comes. I particularly like having regen as the creep bonus because of the excellent synergy with burrow; making your units invisible and healing them to full at the risk of being found and destroyed while helpless. Plus, when pushing an enemy won't know if the army you just retreated from his forces burrowed just out of sight to heal or fled to the rally for reinforcements. The Zerg ambush would return. Even better, let burrowed units be invisible while moving under creep, so when you're on your home turf you have the full advantage of surprise. Having it so that Zerg likes being on their home creep, so that they have more options there, would be so much better than having their army be flatly better on creep than off. Your argumentation doesn´t seem to fit. Ok, Zerg need to be able to push reliably. That however is an argument to make Creep in pushing situations more/easier available than to change the mechanic outright. Your suggestions make creep more defensive/reactive, it gives advantages when retreating / laying traps NOT when attacking. This encourages exactly what we both don´t want, that Zerg become (more) reactive, relying on the enemy to put himself in a bad position. I´d like it so that Zerg don´t view Creep as "home advantage" but as field resource. Something you bring to the enemy, not a line in the sand the enemy is reluctant to cross. | ||
Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + For a hundred-odd responses on this topic, see the TeamLiquid thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144836 This has been bugging me for some time, and while I am not a particularly good player I feel that the point is still a legitimate one: creep, as it stands now, runs counter to everything Zerg, and is hurting the gameplay of the race. Zerg is the swarm, an overwhelming force that is summoned seemingly from thin air and that is gone just as swiftly, leaving behind only corpses to tell of their passing. They strike fear into their foes that dare leave the sanctuary of their base, striking at anywhere and everywhere and melting away before reprisal can come. Their army might break under the full might that the other races can bring to bear, but it doesn't matter after a thousand pinprick strikes have left them crippled before the final battle can even begin. Except, with creep, this does not happen; it cannot. The only ground unit that is truly mobile off creep is the Zergling, a unit that is simply too weak to deal with defenses before the army arrives. In the early game Zerg pressure is reliant on overwhelming force rather than mobility, considering that off creep Roaches don't swarm, they lumber. That the only early attack a Zerg can attempt is a Baneling bust, a sudden and overwhelming burst of damage, is at least in part because even if units DO get into the enemy base, Zerglings are too feeble to do much damage, and Roaches are too slow. They can get kited into the ground while reinforcements crawl across the map. It isn't until mid game that your creep network can really start claiming a significant part of the map, considering that the cost in larva for a single early creep tumor is debilitating to your economy and to your army. You need a second queen, and a third once the requisite early expansion claims the second. If left entirely unhindered, which is unlikely considering that a push or harass is likely to come soon after your expansion rises, then you should be able to creep up a good part of your side of the map. This lets you defend, but at the same time the true disadvantage of creep becomes clear when your first Hydra, lost and confused, stumbles off the creep and becomes one of the least mobile units in the game. In mid game creep hinders Zerg because an otherwise equal Zerg army off creep isn't equal at all, lacking the speed to flank or the ability to retreat. You don't try to harass at this point because the mighty swarm will be caught by the enemy if it attempts to flee. And then, when we leave the mid game and enter the late, it all comes undone as detection hits the field and fifteen minutes of work is undone by creep tumors being sniped at will. The game has to end here for the Zerg, because even if they defend the push they have lost all mobility. They will be unable to defend their expansions or reinforce their army as they need to. And the Zerg will have had the creep pushed back hopelessly from their opponent, and certainly away from the wall at the front that they cannot hope to assault with their lumbering force. The reason that Zergs so rarely attack until they have soundly defeated an enemy push is that they have to be certain of their advantages when going into a battle, seeing as how they know full well of the disadvantages. I like the idea behind creep, that the Zerg are literally infesting the map itself, claiming if for the Swarm and marking it as an undeniable danger to those who would intrude. But making the Zerg army flatly stronger on the creep undermines their nature, forcing them to be defensive rather than offensive and crippling their attempts to pressure the enemy or punish him for being too greedy and spreading too far. When Zerg players feel the need to only engage on creep then something has gone terribly, terribly wrong with the race. There are ways to fix this. Even without speed the vision it provides and ability to delay expansions it enables make creep worthwhile to spread. But creep giving a bonus to the swarm itself is something that should stay, just not through speed. I'd personally prefer something that encourages hit and run tactics rather than discouraging them as it does now. Two suggestions I've seen are to give Zerg faster regeneration on creep, or to allow them to build Nydus Worms faster/cheaper/free on creep. With either Zerg would feel the need to return to the creep whenever possible, but it would not make their army any weaker when they leave. The regeneration would allow small strike forces to nurse their wounds before returning to a new location to wreak further havoc. My favorite result would be the synergy that creep would have with burrow, by allowing units to be both invisible and recuperating, safely encompassed by purple goo. This is not without risks; a zerg that haphazardly burrows their army after a battle will be helpless if detection arrives. A Terran quick with a scan could burn out a great deal of the army that thought it had bought time to heal. Perhaps this synergy could go even further by removing the visible movement of Roaches and Infestors moving under creep, giving the Zerg ambush a new life on their home turf. Improved Nydus Worms on creep would give the Zerg later in the game that feeling of being anywhere at once. At that point you should have the ability to find and destroy tumors nearby, and you would want to do so so that you don't find the Zerg army hitting you while out of position and vanishing when you pull together to fight them. It would also give a bit of synergy between overlord creep and Nydus Worms, as Overlords can reach further and faster than tumors and would thus allow a greater range of mobility than a simple speed boost now does. It would also give Zerg players a choice; risk being more visible when building an offensive worm by having the Overlord there to build faster, or take the slower route without an Overlord and face the threat of being overwhelmed by simple workers before it completes? One other suggestion that should be applied even if the speed mechanic remains is allowing tumors to gain health the longer they are left untouched. This would entrench the Zerg creep in areas it has held for longer and reward them further for spreading creep as soon as possible. I'm certain Blizzard considered most if not all of these ideas before deciding on the speed boost, so I'm also curious as to why you think they would have chosen not to implement them. | ||
Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On August 19 2010 18:07 Melancholia wrote: Improved Nydus Worms on creep would give the Zerg later in the game that feeling of being anywhere at once. At that point you should have the ability to find and destroy tumors nearby, and you would want to do so so that you don't find the Zerg army hitting you while out of position and vanishing when you pull together to fight them. It would also give a bit of synergy between overlord creep and Nydus Worms, as Overlords can reach further and faster than tumors and would thus allow a greater range of mobility than a simple speed boost now does. It would also give Zerg players a choice; risk being more visible when building an offensive worm by having the Overlord there to build faster, or take the slower route without an Overlord and face the threat of being overwhelmed by simple workers before it completes? Doesn´t that go against the approach that Nydus worms are supposed to supply transportation and Creep where Overlords CAN`T get to? On August 19 2010 18:07 Melancholia wrote: One other suggestion that should be applied even if the speed mechanic remains is allowing tumors to gain health the longer they are left untouched. This would entrench the Zerg creep in areas it has held for longer and reward them further for spreading creep as soon as possible. I'm certain Blizzard considered most if not all of these ideas before deciding on the speed boost, so I'm also curious as to why you think they would have chosen not to implement them. Creep Tumors are not supposed to be a entrenchment mechanic but for Mapcontrol. I´d go the opposite route, don´t make the harder to kill the longer the game lasts but make them easier to spread the longer the game lasts. | ||
Melancholia
United States717 Posts
On August 19 2010 17:53 Unentschieden wrote: Fundamentally because it´s unique to the race, makes Creep more than a build limitation and allows ALL Zerg units to have good mobility (given their respective roles). Some units are mobile without it, some aren´t. Except that at some point all Zerg units will have the role of attacking the enemy, you can't go the whole game without striking at the opponents base and can't do so with only the half of your army that can leave the creep without being drastically nerfed. That might be the case right now but remember that the advantage isn´t equal overall. Some units don´t rely on Creep, others do but it´s always an advantage. Off creep encounters should be LIMITED not straight DISADVANTAGED. I´m arguing on the design principle here, not current balance reality. In a game like Starcraft where every little advantage matters, the limit of having half your army drastically weakened off creep IS a straight disadvantage. You should have to use every unit you build in SC, and when you can't use some of them at the most critical point then something is desperately wrong. They should be able to pressure without creep, yes. But as the game develops and Zerg get more opporunities to spread creep they should also require to spread creep more. That is why I´d rather buff Zergs abilities to spread creep than to make them less reliant on it. That's taking a defeatist approach, where we just accept that the inability to pressure with the lack of creep means that we'll wait up on it an hope that our opponent doesn't destroy the tumors or us before that happens. Again, it´s not "all zerg rule on creep / all zerg suck off creep". They obviously can´t have creep everywhere and can´t be expected to always fight on Creep, and the units in these situations need to function without Creep. However there also are situations where the Zerg is expected to have creep and the units for THESE situations SHOULD rely on creep. Again, there can't be creep only units if you ever want the Zerg to be able to choose to attack. The only way that works if you you to engage ON creep, use the creep-only units to win the battle, and then rapidly strike back with the other units while the creep-only ones catch up, which is what we're seeing with the overly-defensive Zergs. Your argumentation doesn´t seem to fit. Ok, Zerg need to be able to push reliably. That however is an argument to make Creep in pushing situations more/easier available than to change the mechanic outright. Except that you're still acknowledging that you must have creep to attack, when you can't possibly have it for much of the game without it being so early and so easy as to be pointless anyway. How is it an argument that it should be available rather than that it shouldn't be the deciding factor at all? Your suggestions make creep more defensive/reactive, it gives advantages when retreating / laying traps NOT when attacking. This encourages exactly what we both don´t want, that Zerg become (more) reactive, relying on the enemy to put himself in a bad position. First, an advantage to retreating is an offensive bonus, it's USELESS when you are defending given that you are already as far back as you can be without sacrificing something crucial such as an expansion. You can't retreat unless you're fighting somewhere that you can give up on without losing the game.I´d like it so that Zerg don´t view Creep as "home advantage" but as field resource. Something you bring to the enemy, not a line in the sand the enemy is reluctant to cross. The Nydus Worms would be absolutely worthless if you are forced to use them for defense against a push given that you army would come out one at a time. The regen is only a factor after you have already engaged, trying to heal an undamaged army is pointless. Only the burrow changes would provide an actual advantage when fighting on your home turf, and how can you possibly think that improving the mobility of two units in the Zerg arsenal AFTER getting an upgrade or two is MORE defensive than boosting the mobility of the ENTIRE army? | ||
Melancholia
United States717 Posts
On August 19 2010 18:40 Unentschieden wrote: Doesn´t that go against the approach that Nydus worms are supposed to supply transportation and Creep where Overlords CAN`T get to? What does that even mean? You can't build a Nydus Worm without vision, and the most common form of vision is from an overlord, which is also the Zerg transport. Where there is a Nydus Worm there is inevitably already an overlord there. Creep Tumors are not supposed to be a entrenchment mechanic but for Mapcontrol. I´d go the opposite route, don´t make the harder to kill the longer the game lasts but make them easier to spread the longer the game lasts. They're easy enough to spread already, this is meant to address the issue that once the enemy gets detection they can wipe out minutes of work before you can defend. A smart Zerg won't attack the moment the enemy reaches the first tumor, which is usually the only one at that point that can continue building, but will wait until they are further into the creeped area to try to surround. How many matches have you seen where the Zerg meets the enemy push at the enemy's front door versus near the Zerg's own? | ||
Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On August 19 2010 18:41 Melancholia wrote: Except that you're still acknowledging that you must have creep to attack, when you can't possibly have it for much of the game without it being so early and so easy as to be pointless anyway. How is it an argument that it should be available rather than that it shouldn't be the deciding factor at all? It being available means that the enemy can react to it. It´s supposed to be a struggle between a Zerg and his enemy to fight on or off creep. The interesting thing about this is that the Zerg always has an advantage on creep but not always the opportunity to get it where he needs it. Tumors on their own can´t and shouldn´t be enough. Yes the Zerg is definetly in a big disadvantage in certain situations to provide creep - and THAT is where and when you need Zergunits that function without it. BUT there are also situations where it´s hard for the enemy to get rid of creep - and there you NEED to give the enemy an advantage if he DOES get rid of it. On August 19 2010 19:17 Sqq wrote: I think some people are missing the point here. If you play vs a good player he will destroy the creep tumors, there is no way you can attack on creep. Its only good for defending and moving around between bases. Hydralisks are so slow off creep that they become almost worthless. The Creep mechanic is not working as intended. Tumors are useless to provide creeps for attacks, that is absolutely intentional. You need Overlords for offensive creeping. Are you really suggesting that even a good player should be unable to clear creep? Creep needs to be spreadable and clearable for it to be an element in an encounter instead of a line in the sand that gives the Zerg a flat advantage. | ||
Melancholia
United States717 Posts
Using overlords for offensive creeping is useless at the most critical point, the first engagement, given the delay before they start pooping creep, and is a huge risk in minerals and supply if you do not succeed. Having a 32+ supply buffer is difficult to pull off consistently. If you use it for retreating then you may as well engage at your tumor line anyway. | ||
Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On August 19 2010 19:40 Melancholia wrote: It seems that we agree that if creep is serving to make nearly all Zergs play defensively so that they are always on creep then the mechanic has failed to function as we would like it to. Yes, removing the advantage can´t be crippling if it´s supposed to be possible. Destroying Medivacs doesn´t prevent Marines from using Stim, it does make Stim "worse" though. On August 19 2010 19:40 Melancholia wrote: We disagree that it's possible for Zerg to have a chance if there are engagements where they cannot bring some of their army at all or quickly enough because that part is largely restricted to creep. Tumors SHOULD be able to provide enough creep that even your "superslow" units aren´t left behind and/or useless offcreep unless that is by design (Queen). While I don´t think Hydras are THAT slow I agree that this particular case would be an argument for a offcreep speedup. On August 19 2010 19:40 Melancholia wrote: It is my experience that if you have invested any significant amount of money into a unit that cannot be a part of your army at all times then your army will be hopelessly weakened when it engages without that investment present. Yes and that is absolutely fine. It´s the same for other races though, To take up my earlier example, you don´t expect Marines Marauders without a Medivac to perform as well as Marine Marauder Medivac. You might make an argument that creep is too "expensive" in the effort/chances for success to provide. On August 19 2010 19:40 Melancholia wrote: Using overlords for offensive creeping is useless at the most critical point, the first engagement, given the delay before they start pooping creep, and is a huge risk in minerals and supply if you do not succeed. Having a 32+ supply buffer is difficult to pull off consistently. If you use it for retreating then you may as well engage at your tumor line anyway. Well yes the first engagement needs to "work" without creep. I haven´t seen anyone contest that. But once Creepdrop is available it should be used, and it´s valid to complain should that be too hard/risky/ineffective. Then why not argue for better creepdropping from overlords? Or even, more/easier access to overlords? They are very cheap since they PROVIDE control, the real cost is them taking up larvae. What if there was a midgameoption to "twinspawn" Overlords, would that make them (even) more riskable? | ||
-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On August 17 2010 16:21 Tali wrote: I focused a lot on spreading creep because I've seen it turn tides. And I do a decent job of it. But every time it turns out like this. Pop out your queen, start spreading creep. You're proactively placing new tumors and going in 3 different directions to provide vision and flanks and increase wrap arounds, so on. So you hit T2, you might have a few skirmishes here and there, a few scuffles. And the creep maintains. And then mid-mid/end-mid game hits and the observer is out. Or he got his second Orbital up. 1 scan can kill 3 full jumps of tumors if it lands right. If they kill off your spawning tumor, well chances are you aren't gonna be able to get your Queen 3/4 across the map to make a new one. And all of a sudden this creep highway you've been working on for 15-18 minutes is dwindling. And its doing it, right before the BIG BATTLE, when you need it the most. And before you know it, its mostly gone. That is what I think its the real problem of creep. It requires a ton of focus and apm you could be putting into other things. And then its just so easy to get rid of later on. Yeah early creep tumors costing a scan is not a bad trade. But most Protoss pop an observer pretty early, then an obs + a zealot will wipe out 15 minutes of tumor hopping. And if you're mech and your push is like a snail a scan for 3 tumors is a bargain if it wins you the final battle. I like the reverse creep idea a lot actually. You wouldn't feel so devastated when all that work is killed off. I completely agree with this. Unless you are playing against a noob, all opponents will destroy you hard work. Sometimes spreading creeps almost feels useless. Maybe each creep tumor (after it becomes invisible) should be as hard as morphing eggs? That way one scan will not be able to kill 3, and 1 zealot with an observer will not kill a big number of tumors fast. If needed to spend so much time and effort to spread the creep it should be harder for the other side to stop it. | ||
SoFFacet
United States101 Posts
To be honest a homefield advantage like Creep makes a ton more sense for Terrans - and I play Terran. Just thematically, Terrans are good at defending prepared terrain. Its what they do. It would make sense if the Terran army went slower off-road. | ||
driftme
United States360 Posts
On August 17 2010 18:39 SubtleArt wrote: Show nested quote + On August 17 2010 16:03 HelterSkelter wrote: I think a good solution would be to reverse creep. Instead of having Zerg move faster on creep, make enemies move slower. That way the advantage to spreading it is still great, but there isn't really a punishment if you don't. That's actually a good idea It's actually kind of a terrible idea. So what you're saying is you want to give Toss/Terran players more incentive to go air? Oh, and ZvZ creep has absolutely no effect then? Or would you change the mechanic there so that somehow the game distinguishes between your creep and their creep? What about overlapping creep? | ||
dronelord
Singapore42 Posts
On August 19 2010 22:24 SoFFacet wrote: Thematically Zerg are supposed to be the fiercest, deadliest evolution of natural predators ever. Given that, terrain really shouldn't be any obstacle to them, they should be able to slither over broken glass and not care. They should be able to go wherever they want whenever they want at top speed because they are more Rambo than Rambo. To be honest a homefield advantage like Creep makes a ton more sense for Terrans - and I play Terran. Just thematically, Terrans are good at defending prepared terrain. Its what they do. It would make sense if the Terran army went slower off-road. I have to agree on this .. Zerg is very powerful if it's used correctly .. although it may sound biased as I am a Zerg player myself . I love it because it's hard to master and it's challenging to overwhelm other races ![]() | ||
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