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United States47024 Posts
On August 18 2010 11:27 Darkn3ss wrote:
I race swapped with my friend one time (a B- Terran). 150/200 1-1 Hellion/Thor/Raven army vs 200/200 3-3 Hydra/Ultra/Ling... I raped ezpz... Had to send a few SCV's to patch up my thors and fuck with zergling's AI after the big battle and just spammed hellions out of fax with reactors...
3 base terran (Main, nat and island) on LT vs 6 base zerg btw...
That was the FIRST and ONLY time I ever played terran...
I mean how spoiled are these Terrans? We all like good win-rates... but bashing zergs bcuz you're scared something will get patched and you, all of a sudden, will start losing games is just ridiculous!!! GROW UP! Lol
Given that he's played Terran in both games, it's not totally unexpected that his off-race Zerg should be bad. Your anecdotal example proves nothing.
I agree that TvZ is imbalanced, but seriously, using unsound logic like this just waters down the point (not to mention the clearly presumptuous and aggressive tone of the last paragraph) and just lets Terran players that complain about Zerg players being whiny have a legitimate point.
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On August 18 2010 11:09 kingcomrade wrote:
It's a shame that a single thor can counter something like half a dozen mutas or more, and they grow exponentially in strength. For antiair honestly three thors can handle any amount of mutas
I believe your statement should be edited a bit.
A thor will beat 12 un spread mutas if it has a bit of backup or will beat completely clutter group of 12 mutas (mabye)
4 spread mutas beat a thor. If the thor has turrets behind him but not neccacerially right next to him well the mutas take damage from more things if they attempt to surround. So on and so forth.
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Here... tonight I got SUPER luckey! NO TERRANS protoss and zergs ONLY! NO TERRANS AT ALL!!
Before I was 528 tonight I'm 664
+ Show Spoiler +
Yep yep!
Lately i've noticed a trend. Basicaly I would win vs all zergs and protoss but lose vs terrans I mean lose like 99.9999% of the time. Since I was paired with terrans 7/10 my rating was pretty stagnant. Than tonight arrived and... litteraly confirmed what I beleived.
Terrans are my problem.. and since they are in SUCH a huge quantity.... it makes it hard for me to get higher in the ladder =X
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On August 18 2010 11:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 11:27 Darkn3ss wrote:
I race swapped with my friend one time (a B- Terran). 150/200 1-1 Hellion/Thor/Raven army vs 200/200 3-3 Hydra/Ultra/Ling... I raped ezpz... Had to send a few SCV's to patch up my thors and fuck with zergling's AI after the big battle and just spammed hellions out of fax with reactors...
3 base terran (Main, nat and island) on LT vs 6 base zerg btw...
That was the FIRST and ONLY time I ever played terran...
I mean how spoiled are these Terrans? We all like good win-rates... but bashing zergs bcuz you're scared something will get patched and you, all of a sudden, will start losing games is just ridiculous!!! GROW UP! Lol
Given that he's played Terran in both games, it's not totally unexpected that his off-race Zerg should be bad. Your anecdotal example proves nothing.I agree that TvZ is imbalanced, but seriously, using unsound logic like this just waters down the point (not to mention the clearly presumptuous and aggressive tone of the last paragraph) and just lets Terran players that complain about Zerg players being whiny have a legitimate point.
The fact that someone was B- in BW should make him pretty decent at any race in SC2 as far as simple mechanics, micro, APM, etc goes... I also didn't say that it was HIS first time playing zerg... I said it was MY first and only time playing Terran...
That's not even the point tho... I just gave you an example of a smaller army with inferior upgrades beating a larger army with superior upgrades/economy to back it up. It had nothing to do with either one of us being unable to play a race. I did what 90% of terrans do.... turtled until I got like 10+ thors and rolled him over... The sad part that every harass attempt I made was shot down ezpz but I was pretty successful at shutting his harass attempts as well. What we ended up with is his maxed out army with maxed out upgrades vs my 150 food worth of hellion/thor (including scvs on 3 bases) and 1-1 ground mech upgrades...
How's that a bad example of imbalance?
I don't think you understood the point of my post...
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On August 18 2010 11:27 Darkn3ss wrote:
I mean how spoiled are these Terrans? We all like good win-rates... but bashing zergs bcuz you're scared something will get patched and you, all of a sudden, will start losing games is just ridiculous!!! GROW UP! Lol
So Terrans are bashing Zerg and Zerg are rightfully pointing out that Terrans are IMBA? ROFL.
http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/500
If you look at the average win rate - the only real statistic to compare a races efficiency - you will note that they range from 58.48% to 59.88% atm, that is 1.5% between the highest and lowest values and I would call that very balanced. Only the "random race" is wayyy ahead with 61.69%, so they must be the IMBA ones. Please refrain from making claims without supporting it with data. The fact that fewer people play Zerg does NOT make them underpowered. The fact that Zerg have a somewhat hard game at the start of a battle does not make them underpowered, because they have their advantages later on.
Playing Terran does not guarantee you a good win rate!
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On August 18 2010 12:46 Konsume wrote:Here... tonight I got SUPER luckey! NO TERRANS protoss and zergs ONLY! NO TERRANS AT ALL!! Before I was 528 tonight I'm 664 + Show Spoiler +Yep yep! Lately i've noticed a trend. Basicaly I would win vs all zergs and protoss but lose vs terrans I mean lose like 99.9999% of the time. Since I was paired with terrans 7/10 my rating was pretty stagnant. Than tonight arrived and... litteraly confirmed what I beleived. Terrans are my problem.. and since they are in SUCH a huge quantity.... it makes it hard for me to get higher in the ladder =X
You are not alone, that's pretty much exactly the spot I'm in as well.
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On August 18 2010 16:19 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 11:27 Darkn3ss wrote:
I mean how spoiled are these Terrans? We all like good win-rates... but bashing zergs bcuz you're scared something will get patched and you, all of a sudden, will start losing games is just ridiculous!!! GROW UP! Lol
So Terrans are bashing Zerg and Zerg are rightfully pointing out that Terrans are IMBA? ROFL. http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/500If you look at the average win rate - the only real statistic to compare a races efficiency - you will note that ...!
Hi, i have no clue about the MM and all that stuff and therefore come her to make wrong statements about winrate being an indicator for anything...
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On August 18 2010 16:19 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 11:27 Darkn3ss wrote:
I mean how spoiled are these Terrans? We all like good win-rates... but bashing zergs bcuz you're scared something will get patched and you, all of a sudden, will start losing games is just ridiculous!!! GROW UP! Lol
So Terrans are bashing Zerg and Zerg are rightfully pointing out that Terrans are IMBA? ROFL. http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/500If you look at the average win rate - the only real statistic to compare a races efficiency - you will note that they range from 58.48% to 59.88% atm, that is 1.5% between the highest and lowest values and I would call that very balanced. Only the "random race" is wayyy ahead with 61.69%, so they must be the IMBA ones. Please refrain from making claims without supporting it with data. The fact that fewer people play Zerg does NOT make them underpowered. The fact that Zerg have a somewhat hard game at the start of a battle does not make them underpowered, because they have their advantages later on. Playing Terran does not guarantee you a good win rate!
Match making system always tries to make games equal. Your link and what you said proves nothing.
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I just saw DIMAGA won the tournament AS TERRAN. According to my experience and words from DIMAGA and Sheth, I think Terran is too easy to play.
Do you mean the tournament where he and demuslim switched races during the finals?
The whole tournament sounded like a joke to me; maybe something to mention in stead of using caps lock.
Dimaga should win the GSL with terran, it should be easy.
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I'm curious why more zergs don't use burrowed Banelings to get map control vs a Bio Terran. They're pretty much stop lurkers except better, you'll force the Terran to wait for Ravens to push you.
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On August 18 2010 18:07 Nadagast wrote:
I'm curious why more zergs don't use burrowed Banelings to get map control vs a Bio Terran. They're pretty much stop lurkers except better, you'll force the Terran to wait for Ravens to push you.
you wont. Good terran scan all the way around. One good scan will almost completely ruin your strategy.
I played some really good players they scan very often. They outmacro with mass command centers all around the world.
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On August 18 2010 18:12 MasterAsia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 18:07 Nadagast wrote:
I'm curious why more zergs don't use burrowed Banelings to get map control vs a Bio Terran. They're pretty much stop lurkers except better, you'll force the Terran to wait for Ravens to push you. you wont. Good terran scan all the way around. One good scan will almost completely ruin your strategy. I played some really good players they scan very often. They outmacro with mass command centers all around the world.
yes, terran scan, not specifically for banelings, more for burrowed roach army or just to see what's ahead, but they do on higher level 
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On August 18 2010 18:07 Nadagast wrote:
I'm curious why more zergs don't use burrowed Banelings to get map control vs a Bio Terran. They're pretty much stop lurkers except better, you'll force the Terran to wait for Ravens to push you.
Not a single zerg has huge problems with Bio Terran. Bio Terran is completely fine.
I've started playing a little random as off lately, and Toss and Terran are definitely easier to play as well as more powerful during the game. I don't know what else to say. I can just make way more mistakes and get a way with it, my units feel way more powerful and useful (god I didn't know how much fun it would be to burn 50 supply worth of marines and marauders with a psystorm and two colossi). And when I play vs zerg it literally feels like whenever the zerg is trying to do something it doesn't do any damage at all. Want to run by a few zerglings to my expansion? Too bad, two tanks on the cliff of the main own them before they reach their destination. Want to nydus drop in my main? Too bad, even though ur nydus is halfway finished, I pull out 12 workers and kill it before something spawns anyways. Oh, you've got some ultras? Too bad, you don't, cause I 5gated you 15 minutes earlier.
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To OP: Do you realize how freaking ridiculous your points?
IdrA that I also found funny along the critics to him, now I think is more of a man than Dimaga. He plays Z 'with teeth', and doesn't he also play for a team?
Terrans are improving very fast
What are we, insta-fast learners and Z and P are retards?
I noticed that the number of top Zergs rapidly droped
You mean Dimaga changes, race and the rest is im sure innacurate of Zergs dropping.
I just say when it was first released, Terran players were not so abusive.
Oh, now T abuse how? They didn't nerf tanks in beta, maybe?
fast expand,
Are you serious? Zerg fe-s like all the time, whine about Terran expands? Lool.
Yes yes list all units of Terran. What does zerg have? Nothing, right.
Moblility.
YES. Hellions are counter to the masses of zerglings that you can ABUSE. Terran needed to have a counter unit. You have upgrade of zergling too, you know.
You just say how heavily zerg loses, for terran tha's nothing raaaight, when zerg produces units faster.
The armies could have an army order rather than a ball of meat, I agree with that.
The Terran is so easy to play
One word: Bullshit
The whole post is one big pile of junk comments, claiming that Zerg is owned in every way, brutally, Zerg cant do a thing, every single thing terran does is imba, OP, GG.
If Blizzard had to listen to such like you, then terran wouldnt exist at all. Have some manner and know where to stop with your 'Everything of terran is OP, everything of zerg is too weak' damn it.
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On August 18 2010 16:19 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 11:27 Darkn3ss wrote:
I mean how spoiled are these Terrans? We all like good win-rates... but bashing zergs bcuz you're scared something will get patched and you, all of a sudden, will start losing games is just ridiculous!!! GROW UP! Lol
So Terrans are bashing Zerg and Zerg are rightfully pointing out that Terrans are IMBA? ROFL. http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/500If you look at the average win rate - the only real statistic to compare a races efficiency - you will note that they range from 58.48% to 59.88% atm, that is 1.5% between the highest and lowest values and I would call that very balanced. Only the "random race" is wayyy ahead with 61.69%, so they must be the IMBA ones. Please refrain from making claims without supporting it with data. The fact that fewer people play Zerg does NOT make them underpowered. The fact that Zerg have a somewhat hard game at the start of a battle does not make them underpowered, because they have their advantages later on. Playing Terran does not guarantee you a good win rate!
How many times does it have to be said that these statistics prove nothing in terms of balance.
Rabiator, I have seen you in every single TvZ thread trying to argue for the Terran and that's fine, but if you're continually gonna dismiss and ignore what other people in the discussion are saying (as in, those statistics have been said in each thread that they mean NOTHING) because you're in denial or something, then your credibility is going one way and one way only: Down.
I sincerely hope you will stop repeating yourself so we can have a serious discussion going and not force everyone else to pull their hair out because they have to type the same thing over and over.
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On August 18 2010 16:19 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 11:27 Darkn3ss wrote:
I mean how spoiled are these Terrans? We all like good win-rates... but bashing zergs bcuz you're scared something will get patched and you, all of a sudden, will start losing games is just ridiculous!!! GROW UP! Lol
So Terrans are bashing Zerg and Zerg are rightfully pointing out that Terrans are IMBA? ROFL. http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/500If you look at the average win rate - the only real statistic to compare a races efficiency - you will note that they range from 58.48% to 59.88% atm, that is 1.5% between the highest and lowest values and I would call that very balanced. Only the "random race" is wayyy ahead with 61.69%, so they must be the IMBA ones. Please refrain from making claims without supporting it with data. The fact that fewer people play Zerg does NOT make them underpowered. The fact that Zerg have a somewhat hard game at the start of a battle does not make them underpowered, because they have their advantages later on. Playing Terran does not guarantee you a good win rate!
Well, your point about the average win rate, seems pretty solid, if the match matching algorithm, makes you play a 33,33% of the games, against Terran, Protoss, and Zerg.
But It truly doesnt.
But what it does pretty good, its to try to keep your average win ratio at 50%, you can check those stats, and see it clearly across all leagues.
Its true that what makes Zergs underpowered is not the underused, its the top ranking ratio.
About the fact of Zerg having hard game at the start, you may agree that in BW, zerg got the best starting mechanic of the 3 races, and it still a macro racein Sc2, you can compare 1 on 1 units vs Terran or Protoss, and clearly see that if you want to kill 1 marine you need 2 zerglings, or 1 zealot, 4 lings, or 1 marauder, 2 roach, right? So Zerg needs numbers, while rest of the races needs to rely on quality units, like thors, or inmortals to deal with tons and tons of fragile units.
So the point of have a hard time to contain terran at his base, or keep yours alive from some kind of rush (such as Reapers, hellions, banshees...) it clearly determinant in the success of zergs.
Also, how can a Race that got only 9 attacking units, vs a race that got 11 atacking units, advantages later on?
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On August 18 2010 18:19 heishe wrote:
Not a single zerg has huge problems with Bio Terran. Bio Terran is completely fine.
That's so typical for zerg players to say. Terran bio is not fine vs zerg, it's weak as hell vs banelings. A gold player with banelings can easily beat a diamond player with bio. Zerg players know how imbalanced banelings are, but they are smart enough to not mention it. If you don't go mech vs zerg then you die, and the replays I saw in the previous days confirm this. Ofcourse this is not the case if the zerg doesn't make banelings. I'm 100% sure that if blizzard makes mech worthless vs zerg (so the terrans have to go bio), that we will see a lot of terran complain. 130 food terran vs 110 food zerg (I saw that happening in a game on steppes between dimaga and a terran)? No problem! Zerg wins easily (hi banelings).
About all those top terran players "rising from nowhere": almost all the top terran players are ex-BW or ex-WC3 topplayers. Name me 5 terran topplayers that weren't top at another RTS.
I would like to invite some zergs to see this replay: http://www.sc2-replays.net/de/replays/516-sarens-vs-orly/
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On August 18 2010 19:03 Dente wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 18:19 heishe wrote:
Not a single zerg has huge problems with Bio Terran. Bio Terran is completely fine.
That's so typical for zerg players to say. Terran bio is not fine vs zerg, it's weak as hell vs banelings. /
Thats so typical for a Terran player to say. "hurr durr zerg has one hard counter vs one of our strats, it's way too strong please nerf it so that banelings don't counter bio anymore".
congrats.
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On August 18 2010 18:48 LightYears wrote:To OP: Do you realize how freaking ridiculous your points? IdrA that I also found funny along the critics to him, now I think is more of a man than Dimaga. He plays Z 'with teeth', and doesn't he also play for a team? What are we, insta-fast learners and Z and P are retards? You mean Dimaga changes, race and the rest is im sure innacurate of Zergs dropping. Oh, now T abuse how? They didn't nerf tanks in beta, maybe? Are you serious? Zerg fe-s like all the time, whine about Terran expands? Lool. Yes yes list all units of Terran. What does zerg have? Nothing, right. Moblility.YES. Hellions are counter to the masses of zerglings that you can ABUSE. Terran needed to have a counter unit. You have upgrade of zergling too, you know. You just say how heavily zerg loses, for terran tha's nothing raaaight, when zerg produces units faster. The armies could have an army order rather than a ball of meat, I agree with that. One word: Bullshit The whole post is one big pile of junk comments, claiming that Zerg is owned in every way, brutally, Zerg cant do a thing, every single thing terran does is imba, OP, GG. If Blizzard had to listen to such like you, then terran wouldnt exist at all. Have some manner and know where to stop with your 'Everything of terran is OP, everything of zerg is too weak' damn it. He is far better than you so don't shit all over his comments. You are no where near the top level so re-read his post. He makes some excellant points describing how hard ZvT is right now.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4772/screenshot2010081723431.jpg)
