EPTZ v T: Current situation and comparison to BW - Page 17
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Persev
United States127 Posts
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SiN]
United States540 Posts
On August 16 2010 02:01 vica wrote: Problem is Terran gets a mineral boost every game: MULES. It gives you a massive increase in minerals, and lets you spam Turrets because they only cost 100 minerals. Most Terrans put down Turrets just in case and are perfectly fine not using them, but you never see that with Zerg. If a Zerg invests in a couple of Spore Crawlers, their production is cut significantly. Marauders get ridiculous DPS with Stim and Concussive Shells. Their high HP also makes them tanks. Mules aren't a problem because if Terran doesn't get them, they will get destroyed by every race. | ||
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OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
On August 15 2010 10:05 Perkins1752 wrote: Dude it has been said so many times no: 1.Zerg players are worse then the average Terran player 2. Zerg is fine l2p 3. If you are still losing, just use nydus 4. It's the player, not the race 5. Just mass Mutas/Roaches and it's gg 6. Broodlords are awesome just quicktech to Blords and it's gg 7. Just sac an Overlord Others than that, Zerg has superior early-midgame strategies themselves: 1. Banelingbust! 2. Roaches! 3. Alot of other strategies, i don't remember exactly but they are completely awesome 4. Nydus! (It has not been mentioned often, but nydus totally owns) Others than that, Zerg is fine l2p User was temp banned for this post. wtf man... *facepalm* edit: I pretty much agree 100% with OP | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On August 16 2010 02:08 GoSu] wrote: Mules aren't a problem because if Terran doesn't get them, they will get destroyed by every race. I'm not convinced. Terran units are more cost-effective (and their upgrades cheaper) than other races, unless I'm confused; why do they need more resources as well? | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
On August 16 2010 02:11 Severedevil wrote: I'm not convinced. Terran units are more cost-effective (and their upgrades cheaper) than other races, unless I'm confused; why do they need more resources as well? They dont. Plus mules allow for instant resources while chrono boost/spawn larva require investment of resources to be effective. IE: you need to build 2 probes for chrono to boost your economy in some way, you need to build drones with the extra larva to boost your economy. Whereas terran gets more or less instant resources for no cost, so improving their economy does not hamper tech or unit production. | ||
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mustache
Switzerland309 Posts
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shape
United States119 Posts
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hizBALLIN
United States163 Posts
In addition to the roach/hydra switch, giving Infestors a Dark Swarm analog (a PDD that works with tanks/bio) and adding a T3 caster with NP (not researched, should last longer than 8 real life seconds, and they can be upgraded to spawn with enough energy to cast it once a la Khaydarin Amulet preferably) would go a long way to balancing ZvT without breaking ZvP, in my opinion. | ||
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XazXio
United States356 Posts
Two, Idra got those win-ratio very early in the release, when Terrans are not so imba. Terrans are improving very fast, while Zergs improvement is very slow. so what your saying is when the game wasnt released terran wasnt imba, but now terrran is imba because we got better? that doesnt make a lot of sense. nothing about terran has changed other than everyone gets to play now! your basically saying that terran is imba because the players are good? | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
On August 16 2010 02:18 XazXio wrote: so what your saying is when the game wasnt released terran wasnt imba, but now terrran is imba because we got better? that doesnt make a lot of sense. nothing about terran has changed other than everyone gets to play now! your basically saying that terran is imba because the players are good? terran players have stopped massing bioballs every game. | ||
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SiN]
United States540 Posts
On August 16 2010 02:14 tacrats wrote: They dont. Plus mules allow for instant resources while chrono boost/spawn larva require investment of resources to be effective. IE: you need to build 2 probes for chrono to boost your economy in some way, you need to build drones with the extra larva to boost your economy. Whereas terran gets more or less instant resources for no cost, so improving their economy does not hamper tech or unit production. Have you actually played Terran without Mules? It simply doesn't work. The reason why Terran needs mules is because they get the least amount of workers. Spawning larva and chrono boosting gets Zerg and Protoss ahead of Terran income-wise, and they need mules to balance that out. Also, even if Terran could do well without Mules, it would barely affect Mech play because it is very gas-heavy. | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
Grrr, this mu is ridiculous right now... | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
On August 16 2010 02:20 GoSu] wrote: Have you actually played Terran without Mules? It simply doesn't work. Also, even if Terran could do well without Mules, it would barely affect Mech play because it is very gas-heavy. You need mules yes, but i believe their collection rate is a bit higher than it should be. The surplus of minerals is pretty significant which allows for insane amounts of units being built early game and on 1 base. the income is almost equivalent to a zerg on 2 base. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
Instead of MULES, how about making more SCVs? You gain the same as every other race fully saturated, but now you don't get the bonus income. | ||
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explicit
52 Posts
On August 15 2010 22:56 BillyMole wrote: Beta's over, get used to a slow pace of changes. The alternative, fast-paced and often unnecessary changes, lead to WoW syndrome, which is a shifting FotM race that nobody here wants to see happen. I have the exact opposite perception of WoW patches, to me they were too few and too far between - even on some of the more glaring issues. End result was that blizzard dug themselves into a hole where big changes had top happen all at once, and often overdid nerfs/buffs to the point where the balance shifted completely and made new FoTM's. My hope is that blizzard stays on top of whatever issues might arrise and try to make this game as good as BW, and not just wait with adressing the issues until they have new content ready like they did with WoW expansions. On the note of waiting for pro players to come up with solutions to these issues, actual tactics that will let zerg come out on top. We'll have to wait and see, but it seems unlikely that terran pros are so much better/crafty that they have come up with ten different ways to open a game and almost as many unit compositions that are able to handle zerg with relative ease. And on the other side we have zerg pros where their only offensive opening was banelings which is already countered by barracks/factory wall and the rest is just reactionary. | ||
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Reptilia
Chile913 Posts
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tacrats
476 Posts
On August 16 2010 02:23 vica wrote: I would like to see a game where someone spams Scans instead of MULES. How would knowing what your opponent is doing every second help you more? Instead of MULES, how about making more SCVs? You gain the same as every other race fully saturated, but now you don't get the bonus income. The income from mules is so huge that using more scans isnt really worth it. A scan at key times is much more effective. Besides, with the income surplus terran can just mass enough units to defend against whatever comes at them so whatever the enemy is doing doesnt really matter until late game. | ||
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Denizen[9]
United States649 Posts
On August 15 2010 23:15 Phayze wrote: Mutalisks already shoot and move almost seamlessly, you can spam click and they slide and shoot btw. They do slow down a little, but after practicing alot ive gotten it almost seamless. They have gliding shot, but not moving shot | ||
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hizBALLIN
United States163 Posts
On August 16 2010 02:18 XazXio wrote: so what your saying is when the game wasnt released terran wasnt imba, but now terrran is imba because we got better? that doesnt make a lot of sense. nothing about terran has changed other than everyone gets to play now! your basically saying that terran is imba because the players are good? He's actually saying the exact opposite. Many of the top Terran players don't exhibit the innovation or game sense of the Protoss or VERY few Zerg players, but they win because of their ability to tech incredibly quickly and take advantage of 8+ timing windows available to them, usually using two to three of those timing windows in any particular game. Rather than using inferior tactics against Zerg, mainly bio-heavy play, they go for mechanic units that gain a higher rate of effectiveness the more they accumulate. This is largely because of the incredible range of tanks; no terran player will have so many tanks that the tanks in the rear cannot shoot because the ball of tanks is so large that the rear tanks' range hampered by the diameter of the ball. Obviously, tanks aren't used in "balls," I was using that was a means of illustrating what limits massed bio/zerg/gateway units with regard to diminishing returns on effectiveness. That is one of the issues that terran bio armies have, and is an issue that EVERY zerg army will have, no matter your composition; do to the short range/melee nature of zerg units, they cannot get concave damage saturation the way terran mech armies can. | ||
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dotFX
United States131 Posts
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