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On August 11 2010 03:02 Ploppytheman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 02:35 shlomo wrote:
Is there really a rationale behind crawlers taking 30 minutes to burrow btw?
Or is that just Blizzard topping Zerg with some additional suck sauce? It takes 12 seconds which is like 9 real seconds. The point of this is so zerg cant spinecrawler push/rush. The fact that you can move them (and HEAL them) is good and I wouldn't contest the problems of zerg on "my static defense moves too slow". I think more along the lines of the accessability of broodlords to defeat tanks and how hard vikings counter BL and corrupter not being that useful. Goliaths were at least land based so you could cliff kite, and devourer + muta was good to defend it. Maybe a little better synergy between muta and corrupters would help. But it would have to be something that wouldn't affect PvZ as much. Maybe corrupters can reduce range/vision temporarily so vikings aren't as good, iono.
Can't heal spine crawlers. Queens can't use their healing spell in buildings. they only have a regeneration in HP, but even with a tumor creep is slow and it's still not a healing.
Healing is that thing medivacs have to make marines/marauders immortals.
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Zerg requires more mechanics. This is why when zerg players get in diamond and defend a first and second push, they generally win. No 50 apm zerg will defeat a 50 apm terran or protoss.
Protoss is generally easier and more forgiving. I can forget a chronoboost, I can forget to make probes because my buildings don't require me losing one. Most of my units come from one production facility which I can easily acces by pressing w. I played this race during phase 2 and I found it WAY more relaxing and rewarding than zerg.
Then there' s terran. I won't even start on that one. A wall to protect from 100% of the ground units early game. All of the units have amazing synergy. I could pick two random units and they would work together. Marine tank? Good you're protected against air and ground. Viking Marauder? Good you can now harrass his overlords while maintaining a great GtG unit. Banshee scv, you can cloak and build turrets to kill detection, and repair to boot. Terran players haven't even been using all their units yet. Ghosts are still underused while their are amazing harrasment units. Ravens are hardly used because zerg doesn't have a cloaked attacking unit. Battlecruisers are never teched to because the other units kill stuff just as fast.
The only reason I play zerg is because I hate myself and I get off on losing 40 drones because 3 hellions were able to be dropped in my main ( Dude is so skilled omg <3 ). When I win I genuinly feel like I played better than the opponent, and when I rewatch the replay and often having twice the APM than my opponent, that only reaffirms this statement.
TL;DR. People play zerg because 1) they hate themselves, 2) don't want to be winning because their race is powerful, 3) Have too much apm to sink into terran or protoss.
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I think it's simple to say that 1-base play is pretty weak for zerg. You often have to play passive aggressive aka take over the map with expansions and creep and take advantage of stocked up larva for that second army to overwhelm your opponent. The game is completely dictated by what your opponent does.
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On August 11 2010 03:09 Ronald_McD wrote:
Zerg is just utterly boring to me in SC2
Me and a few others I know who played Zerg in SC1 felt almost forced to switch to a new race. Zerg just didn't get any of the cool new unit ideas that Protoss and Terran did. I LOVE the sentry for example.
Zerg has 1 single spellcaster. Their gameplay is just so linear, and not the same harass orientated and sneaky gameplay style as it was in SC1. They have very few options for viable openings and transitions, and ZvZ is just such a mess ever since the roach nerf.
I could never be more happy switching over to Protoss (Something I never would have done in SC1)
zerg has more than one spellcaster...
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On August 11 2010 03:16 muse5187 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:09 Ronald_McD wrote:
Zerg is just utterly boring to me in SC2
Me and a few others I know who played Zerg in SC1 felt almost forced to switch to a new race. Zerg just didn't get any of the cool new unit ideas that Protoss and Terran did. I LOVE the sentry for example.
Zerg has 1 single spellcaster. Their gameplay is just so linear, and not the same harass orientated and sneaky gameplay style as it was in SC1. They have very few options for viable openings and transitions, and ZvZ is just such a mess ever since the roach nerf.
I could never be more happy switching over to Protoss (Something I never would have done in SC1) zerg has more than one spellcaster...
f.ck yeah changelings.
Also queens are an awesome spellcaster because they are always on the frontline for you to take advantage of. Totally worth taking to the frontline too, because they are cheap and quick to make, lol.
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On August 11 2010 00:11 kajeus wrote:
Could it be because everywhere you go, every time a prominent English-speaking zerg player opens his mouth, people float the completely unproven claim that zerg is underpowered?
Thank you zerg is a very powerful race once you figure out what it is your doing. In no way are they weak, if you cant beat something .....mech then try something new and if you cant figure out a way to beat the same thing being thrown at you then an rts just isn't for you
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On August 11 2010 03:11 ilbh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:02 Ploppytheman wrote:On August 11 2010 02:35 shlomo wrote:
Is there really a rationale behind crawlers taking 30 minutes to burrow btw?
Or is that just Blizzard topping Zerg with some additional suck sauce? It takes 12 seconds which is like 9 real seconds. The point of this is so zerg cant spinecrawler push/rush. The fact that you can move them (and HEAL them) is good and I wouldn't contest the problems of zerg on "my static defense moves too slow". I think more along the lines of the accessability of broodlords to defeat tanks and how hard vikings counter BL and corrupter not being that useful. Goliaths were at least land based so you could cliff kite, and devourer + muta was good to defend it. Maybe a little better synergy between muta and corrupters would help. But it would have to be something that wouldn't affect PvZ as much. Maybe corrupters can reduce range/vision temporarily so vikings aren't as good, iono. Can't heal spine crawlers. Queens can't use their healing spell in buildings. they only have a regeneration in HP, but even with a tumor creep is slow and it's still not a healing. Healing is that thing medivacs have to make marines/marauders immortals.
Transfusion can be use on building.
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On August 11 2010 03:16 muse5187 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:09 Ronald_McD wrote:
Zerg is just utterly boring to me in SC2
Me and a few others I know who played Zerg in SC1 felt almost forced to switch to a new race. Zerg just didn't get any of the cool new unit ideas that Protoss and Terran did. I LOVE the sentry for example.
Zerg has 1 single spellcaster. Their gameplay is just so linear, and not the same harass orientated and sneaky gameplay style as it was in SC1. They have very few options for viable openings and transitions, and ZvZ is just such a mess ever since the roach nerf.
I could never be more happy switching over to Protoss (Something I never would have done in SC1) zerg has more than one spellcaster...
Yeah, like the queen who is able to spread creep and spawn larva' s you need anyway, or the overseer that has that imba changeling with 5 hp, or that ability which shuts down a building for 20 ingame seconds while not actually hurting it. Oh! How could I forget the corruption ability that makes your units' attacks hit 25% harder thats 75 energy but doesn't actually damage the unit it was cast on.
Most zerg's spell casters are about as useful as a sentry who is only able to cast hallucination.
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On August 11 2010 03:17 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:11 ilbh wrote:On August 11 2010 03:02 Ploppytheman wrote:On August 11 2010 02:35 shlomo wrote:
Is there really a rationale behind crawlers taking 30 minutes to burrow btw?
Or is that just Blizzard topping Zerg with some additional suck sauce? It takes 12 seconds which is like 9 real seconds. The point of this is so zerg cant spinecrawler push/rush. The fact that you can move them (and HEAL them) is good and I wouldn't contest the problems of zerg on "my static defense moves too slow". I think more along the lines of the accessability of broodlords to defeat tanks and how hard vikings counter BL and corrupter not being that useful. Goliaths were at least land based so you could cliff kite, and devourer + muta was good to defend it. Maybe a little better synergy between muta and corrupters would help. But it would have to be something that wouldn't affect PvZ as much. Maybe corrupters can reduce range/vision temporarily so vikings aren't as good, iono. Can't heal spine crawlers. Queens can't use their healing spell in buildings. they only have a regeneration in HP, but even with a tumor creep is slow and it's still not a healing. Healing is that thing medivacs have to make marines/marauders immortals. Transfusion can be use on building.
Not that it matters because if you've been keeping up with larva inject and using tumors (which are needed for mobility), you will rarely have the mana to transfuse in the stages of the game where it matters most (early).
I'd say give transfusion a long-ish cooldown and make it dirt cheap mana-wise so it can actually be used frequently to help fend off early and midgame timing pushes. Then the queen becomes a little more interesting.
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On August 11 2010 03:20 Chaosvuistje wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:16 muse5187 wrote:On August 11 2010 03:09 Ronald_McD wrote:
Zerg is just utterly boring to me in SC2
Me and a few others I know who played Zerg in SC1 felt almost forced to switch to a new race. Zerg just didn't get any of the cool new unit ideas that Protoss and Terran did. I LOVE the sentry for example.
Zerg has 1 single spellcaster. Their gameplay is just so linear, and not the same harass orientated and sneaky gameplay style as it was in SC1. They have very few options for viable openings and transitions, and ZvZ is just such a mess ever since the roach nerf.
I could never be more happy switching over to Protoss (Something I never would have done in SC1) zerg has more than one spellcaster... Yeah, like the queen who is able to spread creep and spawn larva' s you need anyway, or the overseer that has that imba changeling with 5 hp, or that ability which shuts down a building for 20 ingame seconds while not actually hurting it. Oh! How could I forget the corruption ability that makes your units' attacks hit 25% harder thats 75 energy but doesn't actually damage the unit it was cast on. Most zerg's spell casters are about as useful as a sentry who is only able to cast hallucination.
The usefulness of a spellcaster doesn't determine if it's a spellcaster. I thought that would be apparent to even the most brainless peon. All I can say is l2p because I enjoy playing zerg. Because really if you can't keep up with transfusion you might as well switch race because you will get killed every time. I bet most of the cry babies have the worst transfusion macro ever.
your logic: that zerg sucks, he's not zerg
rename thread to: place for crybabies to gather and flame non-crybabies
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On August 11 2010 03:17 Parodoxx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:11 kajeus wrote:
Could it be because everywhere you go, every time a prominent English-speaking zerg player opens his mouth, people float the completely unproven claim that zerg is underpowered? Thank you zerg is a very powerful race once you figure out what it is your doing. In no way are they weak, if you cant beat something .....mech then try something new and if you cant figure out a way to beat the same thing being thrown at you then an rts just isn't for you
Have to love Terran trolls like you who show up in a Zerg discussion about genuine issues that are frustrating to us and having no experience or understanding of what we are saying or going through tell us that "rts just isn't for us". Troll somewhere else.
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On August 11 2010 03:20 shlomo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:17 Noocta wrote:On August 11 2010 03:11 ilbh wrote:On August 11 2010 03:02 Ploppytheman wrote:On August 11 2010 02:35 shlomo wrote:
Is there really a rationale behind crawlers taking 30 minutes to burrow btw?
Or is that just Blizzard topping Zerg with some additional suck sauce? It takes 12 seconds which is like 9 real seconds. The point of this is so zerg cant spinecrawler push/rush. The fact that you can move them (and HEAL them) is good and I wouldn't contest the problems of zerg on "my static defense moves too slow". I think more along the lines of the accessability of broodlords to defeat tanks and how hard vikings counter BL and corrupter not being that useful. Goliaths were at least land based so you could cliff kite, and devourer + muta was good to defend it. Maybe a little better synergy between muta and corrupters would help. But it would have to be something that wouldn't affect PvZ as much. Maybe corrupters can reduce range/vision temporarily so vikings aren't as good, iono. Can't heal spine crawlers. Queens can't use their healing spell in buildings. they only have a regeneration in HP, but even with a tumor creep is slow and it's still not a healing. Healing is that thing medivacs have to make marines/marauders immortals. Transfusion can be use on building. Not that it matters because if you've been keeping up with larva inject and using tumors (which are needed for mobility), you will rarely have the mana to transfuse in the stages of the game where it matters most (early). I'd say give transfusion a long-ish cooldown and make it dirt cheap mana-wise so it can actually be used frequently to help fend off early and midgame timing pushes. Then the queen becomes a little more interesting.
Maybe if you built more than 1 queen to help fight off early agression or spawn those creep tumors or defeat air harass you'd know this is true.
Queens are dirt cheap and outstanding at defense for their price. The only downside to making them is that you can't go offensive with them (not like you can be that offensive with roaches without speed, and if you're just making lings you have surplus minerals) and they delay the lair 
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On August 11 2010 03:16 muse5187 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:09 Ronald_McD wrote:
Zerg is just utterly boring to me in SC2
Me and a few others I know who played Zerg in SC1 felt almost forced to switch to a new race. Zerg just didn't get any of the cool new unit ideas that Protoss and Terran did. I LOVE the sentry for example.
Zerg has 1 single spellcaster. Their gameplay is just so linear, and not the same harass orientated and sneaky gameplay style as it was in SC1. They have very few options for viable openings and transitions, and ZvZ is just such a mess ever since the roach nerf.
I could never be more happy switching over to Protoss (Something I never would have done in SC1) zerg has more than one spellcaster...
Queens and Overseers barely count as spellcasters though. Queens are pretty much mobile buildings with one situational spell (transfusion) that is rarely used due to poor speed. The Overseer's Changelings are very lousy scouts compared to the other races, and while building corruption is a great ability, you need multiple Overseers to get any real use out of it, and 100 gas a pop is just way too expensive in SC2.
The Infestor is the only real caster, but it lacks the synergy of the Defiler since it doesn't have Dark Swarm. Defilers had an amazing impact on the game due to their abilities making melee units viable, and the Infestor is not nearly as interesting. Neural Parasite is useful but boring, and Infested Terran is an dreadfully dull spell that only exists because Blizzard wanted to shoe-horn in lore about Infestors eating marines.
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On August 11 2010 03:29 Spawkuring wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:16 muse5187 wrote:On August 11 2010 03:09 Ronald_McD wrote:
Zerg is just utterly boring to me in SC2
Me and a few others I know who played Zerg in SC1 felt almost forced to switch to a new race. Zerg just didn't get any of the cool new unit ideas that Protoss and Terran did. I LOVE the sentry for example.
Zerg has 1 single spellcaster. Their gameplay is just so linear, and not the same harass orientated and sneaky gameplay style as it was in SC1. They have very few options for viable openings and transitions, and ZvZ is just such a mess ever since the roach nerf.
I could never be more happy switching over to Protoss (Something I never would have done in SC1) zerg has more than one spellcaster... Queens and Overseers barely count as spellcasters though. Queens are pretty much mobile buildings with one situational spell (transfusion) that is rarely used due to poor speed. The Overseer's Changelings are very lousy scouts compared to the other races, and while building corruption is a great ability, you need multiple Overseers to get any real use out of it, and 100 gas a pop is just way too expensive in SC2. The Infestor is the only real caster, but it lacks the synergy of the Defiler since it doesn't have Dark Swarm. Defilers had an amazing impact on the game due to their abilities making melee units viable, and the Infestor is not nearly as interesting. Neural Parasite is useful but boring, and Infested Terran is an dreadfully dull spell that only exists because Blizzard wanted to shoe-horn in lore about Infestors eating marines.
Nothing you posted changes the fact that zerg has more than one spell caster.
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On August 11 2010 03:25 sikyon wrote:Maybe if you built more than 1 queen to help fight off early agression or spawn those creep tumors or defeat air harass you'd know this is true. Queens are dirt cheap and outstanding at defense for their price. The only downside to making them is that you can't go offensive with them (not like you can be that offensive with roaches without speed, and if you're just making lings you have surplus minerals) and they delay the lair
Oh so the only downside is that they keep you in the stone age longer? Golly, why didn't I think of how awesome that is before you posted! Thanks for your fantastic insight, I really needed your bronze league tips to playing Zerg.
I still think my suggestion slightly alleviates Zerg early game issues and makes the Queen a more interesting unit. But hey, you're just interesting in spamming "its fine l2p", so have fun with that, you are cool.
There are plenty of downsides to making more queens. Namely, they don't help you when you need to fight outside of your base (woo for more defensive/reactionary play!), they delay your expo and/or lair, and 99% of the time more tumors is still better than "saving up" mana for transfusion (which makes it a rather uninteresting ability).
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On August 11 2010 03:30 muse5187 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:29 Spawkuring wrote:On August 11 2010 03:16 muse5187 wrote:On August 11 2010 03:09 Ronald_McD wrote:
Zerg is just utterly boring to me in SC2
Me and a few others I know who played Zerg in SC1 felt almost forced to switch to a new race. Zerg just didn't get any of the cool new unit ideas that Protoss and Terran did. I LOVE the sentry for example.
Zerg has 1 single spellcaster. Their gameplay is just so linear, and not the same harass orientated and sneaky gameplay style as it was in SC1. They have very few options for viable openings and transitions, and ZvZ is just such a mess ever since the roach nerf.
I could never be more happy switching over to Protoss (Something I never would have done in SC1) zerg has more than one spellcaster... Queens and Overseers barely count as spellcasters though. Queens are pretty much mobile buildings with one situational spell (transfusion) that is rarely used due to poor speed. The Overseer's Changelings are very lousy scouts compared to the other races, and while building corruption is a great ability, you need multiple Overseers to get any real use out of it, and 100 gas a pop is just way too expensive in SC2. The Infestor is the only real caster, but it lacks the synergy of the Defiler since it doesn't have Dark Swarm. Defilers had an amazing impact on the game due to their abilities making melee units viable, and the Infestor is not nearly as interesting. Neural Parasite is useful but boring, and Infested Terran is an dreadfully dull spell that only exists because Blizzard wanted to shoe-horn in lore about Infestors eating marines. Nothing you posted changes the fact that zerg has more than one spell caster.
How does the number of spellcasters impact the game when none of them actually does anything significant?
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On August 11 2010 03:30 shlomo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:25 sikyon wrote:Maybe if you built more than 1 queen to help fight off early agression or spawn those creep tumors or defeat air harass you'd know this is true. Queens are dirt cheap and outstanding at defense for their price. The only downside to making them is that you can't go offensive with them (not like you can be that offensive with roaches without speed, and if you're just making lings you have surplus minerals) and they delay the lair Oh so the only downside is that they keep you in the stone age longer? Thanks for your fantastic insight, I really needed your bronze league tips to playing Zerg. I still think my suggestion slightly alleviates Zerg early game issues and makes the Queen a more interesting unit. But hey, you're just interesting in spamming "its fine l2p", so have fun with that, you are cool. There are plenty of downsides to making more queens. Namely, they don't help you when you need to fight outside of your base (woo for more defensive/reactionary play!), they delay your expo and/or lair, and 99% of the time more tumors is still better than "saving up" mana for inject (which makes it a rather uninteresting ability).
Oh really? What brought you to that intelligent conclusion?
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On August 11 2010 03:32 Chaosvuistje wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:30 muse5187 wrote:On August 11 2010 03:29 Spawkuring wrote:On August 11 2010 03:16 muse5187 wrote:On August 11 2010 03:09 Ronald_McD wrote:
Zerg is just utterly boring to me in SC2
Me and a few others I know who played Zerg in SC1 felt almost forced to switch to a new race. Zerg just didn't get any of the cool new unit ideas that Protoss and Terran did. I LOVE the sentry for example.
Zerg has 1 single spellcaster. Their gameplay is just so linear, and not the same harass orientated and sneaky gameplay style as it was in SC1. They have very few options for viable openings and transitions, and ZvZ is just such a mess ever since the roach nerf.
I could never be more happy switching over to Protoss (Something I never would have done in SC1) zerg has more than one spellcaster... Queens and Overseers barely count as spellcasters though. Queens are pretty much mobile buildings with one situational spell (transfusion) that is rarely used due to poor speed. The Overseer's Changelings are very lousy scouts compared to the other races, and while building corruption is a great ability, you need multiple Overseers to get any real use out of it, and 100 gas a pop is just way too expensive in SC2. The Infestor is the only real caster, but it lacks the synergy of the Defiler since it doesn't have Dark Swarm. Defilers had an amazing impact on the game due to their abilities making melee units viable, and the Infestor is not nearly as interesting. Neural Parasite is useful but boring, and Infested Terran is an dreadfully dull spell that only exists because Blizzard wanted to shoe-horn in lore about Infestors eating marines. Nothing you posted changes the fact that zerg has more than one spell caster. How does the number of spellcasters impact the game when none of them actually does anything significant?
Where did I say it changes the game? I see that you read what you want to see. I simply stated zerg has more than one spell caster, and if you disagree you're obviously wrong.
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On August 11 2010 03:32 muse5187 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:30 shlomo wrote:On August 11 2010 03:25 sikyon wrote:Maybe if you built more than 1 queen to help fight off early agression or spawn those creep tumors or defeat air harass you'd know this is true. Queens are dirt cheap and outstanding at defense for their price. The only downside to making them is that you can't go offensive with them (not like you can be that offensive with roaches without speed, and if you're just making lings you have surplus minerals) and they delay the lair Oh so the only downside is that they keep you in the stone age longer? Thanks for your fantastic insight, I really needed your bronze league tips to playing Zerg. I still think my suggestion slightly alleviates Zerg early game issues and makes the Queen a more interesting unit. But hey, you're just interesting in spamming "its fine l2p", so have fun with that, you are cool. There are plenty of downsides to making more queens. Namely, they don't help you when you need to fight outside of your base (woo for more defensive/reactionary play!), they delay your expo and/or lair, and 99% of the time more tumors is still better than "saving up" mana for transfusion (which makes it a rather uninteresting ability). Oh really? What brought you to that intelligent conclusion?
Actually playing the game above silver league.
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On August 11 2010 03:33 shlomo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 03:32 muse5187 wrote:On August 11 2010 03:30 shlomo wrote:On August 11 2010 03:25 sikyon wrote:Maybe if you built more than 1 queen to help fight off early agression or spawn those creep tumors or defeat air harass you'd know this is true. Queens are dirt cheap and outstanding at defense for their price. The only downside to making them is that you can't go offensive with them (not like you can be that offensive with roaches without speed, and if you're just making lings you have surplus minerals) and they delay the lair Oh so the only downside is that they keep you in the stone age longer? Thanks for your fantastic insight, I really needed your bronze league tips to playing Zerg. I still think my suggestion slightly alleviates Zerg early game issues and makes the Queen a more interesting unit. But hey, you're just interesting in spamming "its fine l2p", so have fun with that, you are cool. There are plenty of downsides to making more queens. Namely, they don't help you when you need to fight outside of your base (woo for more defensive/reactionary play!), they delay your expo and/or lair, and 99% of the time more tumors is still better than "saving up" mana for inject (which makes it a rather uninteresting ability). Oh really? What brought you to that intelligent conclusion? Actually playing the game above silver league.
YES! Having a fraction of the larva you can have to get some creep is always the best choice, no wonder you are here crying about zerg! The fact is inject should most def. be prioritized above creep tumor, and if you don't understand why then you need to seriously re think your game.
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EPT
