EPTOkay it was a little stupid of me to say that
But really, I don't see the queen being very useful with it's spells in combat, at least anywhere other than early game. And don't even try to tell me the Overseer counts as a spellcaster.
Why is Zerg played less? - Page 11
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
Okay it was a little stupid of me to say that But really, I don't see the queen being very useful with it's spells in combat, at least anywhere other than early game. And don't even try to tell me the Overseer counts as a spellcaster. | ||
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Yurie
12082 Posts
On August 11 2010 03:58 Ronald_McD wrote: Okay it was a little stupid of me to say that But really, I don't see the queen being very useful with it's spells in combat, at least anywhere other than early game. And don't even try to tell me the Overseer counts as a spellcaster. The queen actually shines the most in the late game. Where you have spread creep, queens and ultras, four transfuses on an ultra isn't funny... | ||
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Sayer
United States403 Posts
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:47 PanzerDragoon wrote: Lurkers are incredibly defensive units meant to hold down positions though, I don't think that would solve it. Big issue is that most races can really easily deal with any sort of ling rush, which was Zerg's most dangerous early pressure (fast pool builds were always a terror on BNet) THat's exactly what Zerg needs. As a zerg player, i lose half the time because I pulled off a successful nydus/drop only to be owned by the T army rolling my base faster and hiding his CC somewhere. The lurker would help delay the time it takes a T army to advance. Zerg doesn't have any "zone control" like siege tanks and FF atm where it makes it difficult to advance for opponent. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
Average Points per race! All Diamond Players (Global): Random: 357 Protoss: 376 Terran: 376 Zerg: 373 Top 250 Diamond Players (Global): Random: 879 Protoss: 846 Terran: 855 Zerg: 858 Cool stuff. Discuss! EDIT: Oh wow! You can see average ratings by region now too! And Korea is surprisingly low (Top 250). Interesting. EDIT 2: If you look at Top 250 average ratings by race across regions, you see that Diamond Zergs in NA are the lowest easily, but in Korea for example, Zergs are the highest. Definitely suggests that we NA Zerg players either need to learn something from the Koreans or that the Korean Terrans and Protoss players need to learn from the NA players. Probably the former, AMIRITE?  | ||
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shlomo
258 Posts
On August 11 2010 03:55 Fumble wrote: How easy is it to seige up or micro collosus? Its pretty damn easy. When looking at replays, yes I could of done many things that would of won me the game instead of losing. However looking at my opponent though, it looks like he was probably eating potato chips and scratching his ass too while making ton more mistakes than me yet still won. That's the problem here. Zerg loses lots of games where their opponent is 10x sloppier but the faceroll can and will still beat you if you don't execute perfectly. I mean lol, dropping hellions. It happens pretty fast (esp 1-1-1), it's dirt easy to do, and even if the hellions die relatively fast because you react ok, they can STILL do assloads of damage. No risk, high return. Go Terran. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
not too sure about 1v1 though, guess they are just different/hard to play | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:00 Yurie wrote: The queen actually shines the most in the late game. Where you have spread creep, queens and ultras, four transfuses on an ultra isn't funny... This is basically a bronze league gimmick lol. Its too big of an investment in terms of time and hatchs (queens take a long time to build and its 1 only) for something that can be easily countered (detectors), and it slows down zergs main strength-Mobility. On August 11 2010 03:55 Fumble wrote: How easy is it to seige up or micro collosus? Its pretty damn easy. When looking at replays, yes I could of done many things that would of won me the game instead of losing. However looking at my opponent though, it looks like he was probably eating potato chips and scratching his ass too while making ton more mistakes than me yet still won. That's the problem here. Zerg loses lots of games where their opponent is 10x sloppier but the faceroll can and will still beat you if you don't execute perfectly. I mean lol, dropping hellions. It happens pretty fast (esp 1-1-1), it's dirt easy to do, and even if the hellions die relatively fast because you react ok, they can STILL do assloads of damage. No risk, high return. Go Terran. Have you ever played terran? Playing random, the roles seem to reverse lategame. Once you get to 4 base t fighting a 5-6 base Z (pretty natural once you get to this point), the zerg literally can come out with a 200/200 army after just suiciding his old one in a matter of seconds, while their is no way you can efficiently match that kind of production capability. A single poor position, just force your tanks out of position once, and its gg. If zerg played a smooth early game, lategame, terran is 100% going to be at a heavy disadvantage. This is especially bad, because by this point the zerg can go from 10 ultras to 10 brolords in 4 minutes. Why more don't, is beyond me. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
Perhaps because Zerg macro is somewhat forgiving as long as you are spawning larva most of the time? | ||
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[wh]_ForAlways
United States235 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:03 SpaceYeti wrote: EDIT: Oh wow! You can see average ratings by region now too! And Korea is surprisingly low (Top 250). Interesting. I'll admit I'm completely talking out of my ass here, but it probably has something to do with the competition on the korean servers being much more fierce than what it is on the US serveres | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:11 [wh]_ForAlways wrote: I'll admit I'm completely talking out of my ass here, but it probably has something to do with the competition on the korean servers being much more fierce than what it is on the US serveres You might be talking from your ass, but that logic makes some sense. This is why the site needs to report standard errors as well. My guess is that the distribution is much more spread on NA servers than in Korea. Standard errors would also allow individuals to better assess where they stand in relation to the average. | ||
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
Oh and the push can come at anytime with varying strength at each time. Playing Zerg is like being a newborn infant that gets beat on by T and P till later on where you learn 'The Force" and just pwns every1 like yoda. Problem is, You'd probably get raped too many times as a child that you'd rather sue for child abuse than continue to play Z. | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
1. Bad secondaries: Zerg has the weakest one base play of the three races it seems, so when you are in a game and there are 2000hp worth of rocks that keep you from expanding it makes it hard to keep up. Also often they are horribly positioned so that they can not be easily defended. 2. Creep: I need creep to keep competitive, but it keeps my allies from building. My hydras can't get to my teammates fast enough without it, but then that means I now have to creep to there bases. Doing so keeps them from building in that area. and worse some of the secondaries are so close that if I take one first trying fast expand I make it so my ally can never expand without killing my hatchery. 3. The lack of early mobile antiair : you get rushed early by two opponents and fend it off, you figure they may be going for some fast air (banshee, voidray) so you get some anti-air out. Terran has marines, Protoss has stalkers, you have Queens. all three will do ok, but guess which is the only one that can't help your team mate. Yeah the queens because they are so slow they can never assist your teammates in time, same thing applies to spore colonies and spine crawlers. 4. integrating and realestate: This relates to the creep but deserves its own point, your allies can't build in your base and you can't do so it theres. If you lose your base, and try to rebuild in an allies then you consume there build-able land. If they lose theirs they can't build near you at all. This hurts your nydus worms a lot, trying to use it to connect your bases actually end up taking too much space | ||
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ilikejokes
United States217 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:08 SpaceYeti wrote: For instance, in the 4v4 Random bracket, Zerg is played by 15.49% of players! That is less than those who play Random, and less than half of those who play Terran or Protoss each!! Amusing, because Zerg is potentially the strongest race in 4v4 (having one heavily macro-oriented Zerg is ridiculous in a 4v4, at least on the map that they had in the beta). | ||
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Furycrab
Canada456 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:03 me_viet wrote: THat's exactly what Zerg needs. As a zerg player, i lose half the time because I pulled off a successful nydus/drop only to be owned by the T army rolling my base faster and hiding his CC somewhere. The lurker would help delay the time it takes a T army to advance. Zerg doesn't have any "zone control" like siege tanks and FF atm where it makes it difficult to advance for opponent. In Day 9s latest, he showcases two or three of zergs very important and powerful tools to slow down / whittle down an advancing terran even on a very small map (the map was Delta quadrant) None of these are "easy" to master, which further suggests why most players would play T or P, but it's hard to teach someone things like : abuse his immobility. | ||
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arew
Lithuania1861 Posts
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:03 SpaceYeti wrote: Oh! Interesting new stats on sc2ranks.com! Average Points per race! All Diamond Players (Global): Random: 357 Protoss: 376 Terran: 376 Zerg: 373 Top 250 Diamond Players (Global): Random: 879 Protoss: 846 Terran: 855 Zerg: 858 Cool stuff. Discuss! EDIT: Oh wow! You can see average ratings by region now too! And Korea is surprisingly low (Top 250). Interesting. EDIT 2: If you look at Top 250 average ratings by race across regions, you see that Diamond Zergs in NA are the lowest easily, but in Korea for example, Zergs are the highest. Definitely suggests that we NA Zerg players either need to learn something from the Koreans or that the Korean Terrans and Protoss players need to learn from the NA players. Probably the former, AMIRITE? and put this on the front page asap | ||
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Morphs
Netherlands645 Posts
 Zerg still feels unpolished. Mechanics that aren't perfect yet and could be improved a lot. Inject larvae doesn't even compare to T and P mechanics. I'll simply say that there's nothing against injecting multiple times if you have the spare energy..the current system merely punishes the player that doesn't have the timing down perfectly. Perhaps make it have diminishing returns (1st inject is 4 larvae, additional injects give 3, 2, 1 larvae).. Transfusion should be a lot more useful as an AoE heal that heals in the target area. Queens would suddenly be useful at the front. Corruptors are the only air unit that cannot attack ground. Both the phoenix and viking can attack ground units. And corruption is about as stupid as frenzy was. An average single-target non damaging spell.. make it AoE with a shorter duration also affecting buildings and you have something worth it, the corruptor would be useful in any type of fight. Tech to broodlords is way too slow. Zerg already has the least units in the game, so please make them count. Brood Lords are generally seen as the equal of the Collossus and Siege tank yet they take way longer to tech to. When you see all the suggestions flying around left and right in this thread, it's clear that Zerg was in fact not finished when Sc2 came out. Still I like Zerg the most, always did and always will. I take some type of preference for the 'non FotM-race" but feeling a bit stronger like when I have a MMM ball with Terran would be insanely welcome.. looking forward to the next big patch.. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
In Day 9s latest, he showcases two or three of zergs very important and powerful tools to slow down / whittle down an advancing terran even on a very small map (the map was Delta quadrant) None of these are "easy" to master, which further suggests why most players would play T or P, but it's hard to teach someone things like : abuse his immobility. Have to say, every time I watch TLO play as Zerg I wonder why he doesn't play it all the time. That match was freaking awesome. I totally dig TLO's Zerg style of play. Back on topic, and related to the TLO vs BratOK match, another thing that works against new players picking up Zerg is managing creep. While it's not an extra resource in the same way larva is, spreading creep is a huge game changer that I have been trying to be better about and finding great success with. That speed bonus and extra scouting from creep tumors is godly! | ||
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