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On August 07 2010 03:45 Half wrote: Who the hell is saying this? If people are, please disassociate them in your mind from people who like BW more then SC2.
Oh, half, you make me laugh ^^
I dunno, probably no one, but we can definitely be sure that my post was completely serious!
EDIT:
Actually, the OP seems to be making that claim, albeit somewhat vaguely. Literally speaking, he says the success of Starcraft 2 is "unclear," but since that's a meaningless and incredibly obvious statement when taken literally, I can only assume that, given the context of his post, he's trying to say that SC2 is not going to be successful
Still, that doesn't make my last post anything more than a jab at people who make crazy "factual" claims in regards to anything 
U CRAZEE GAIZ!
On August 07 2010 03:47 Archerofaiur wrote:
FACT: Im having "English Breakfast" right now.
Damn, you poked a huge hole in my argument 
EDIT AGAIN!
The OP reminds me of yellow journalism xD
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On August 07 2010 03:45 Half wrote:
Right. I'm not against SC2, and if Esports want to thrive, it has to adapt, and people have to make sacrifices.
Those statements have nothing to do with the actual qualify of SC1 as a game though.
OFC not.. Starcraft BW is the biggest RTS the world has seen, but it doesn't stop my Laptop screaming "lol wtf is this antique you expect me to run" everytime i put the disk in.
As much as we like to think it's an E-Sport.. The thing with the E and not so much the sport, is that Tech changes, new things are developed. There aren't 100's of new sports being invented yearly vying for our attention.
E-Sport is adapting.. Starcraft 2.. its similar but different enough to warrant being a sequel, Major graphical upgrade, which will make it better to watch than the BW for the uninitiated. No matter how good the pro play is, show it to a casual and watch them recoil because they aren't interested in watching a 12 year old game. and the key to any thriving entertainment industry is creating new fans as well as retaining the old ones.
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On August 07 2010 03:04 Mellotron wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 02:56 Random() wrote:
@Mellotron
"vinyl is 100 percent undeniably superior in audio quality, there is no debate"
No debate, huh? Show me just one of those wannabe-audiophiles who can tell vinyl from a properly mastered CD in at least 80% of cases in a double-blind test and I will eat my socks. There is no debate. You are completely uninformed on this subject matter and about to embarrass yourself. The proof is in the fact that you think mastering somehow increases the available 1s and 0s. Lets not take this too far off topic. You are wrong. Use the internet to your advantage my friend. Many articles have been written and audio tests have been done that prove and reprove this to be a fact. Vinyl is a physical entity. 1s and 0s have gaps in between the 1s and 0s. You arent hearing all of the audio when you listen to a digital recording. You are hearing an approximation. This is not opinion this is fact, and quite commonly known in the audio world. Until bit rates go way way way up, digital will be baby talk compared to the literary genius of a vinyl record. And even then, it will still be 1s and 0s with tiny little stair-step gaps in between them.
As long as your sample rate is high enough to avoid aliasing, Fourier Transform allows you to convert analog -> digital -> analogy playback with no loss of data. Finite 0's and 1's are irrelevant as long as you are above the threshold. Digital music is often seen as inferior not because of the quality, quite the reverse. Analog technologies often introduce imperfect distortions that turn out sounding pretty nice. A feature that is hard to replicate with digital.
Same reason why you see musicians playing with tube amps from teh 70's instead of modern amps.
Learning is Power! http://mathworld.wolfram.com/FourierTransform.html
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Every time I see this thread title is pisses me off a little. I mean, the game hasn't even been out 2 weeks yet...
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Actually, the OP seems to be making that claim, albeit somewhat vaguely. Literally speaking, he says the success of Starcraft 2 is "unclear," but since that's a meaningless and incredibly obvious statement when taken literally, I can only assume that, given the context of his post, he's trying to say that SC2 is not going to be successful
No, he said Industry Expert say that. Which is a fact. Because Industry Experts are saying that.
dun worry you make me laugh too :D. How seeing any kind of thread criticizing SC2 in any way makes you all insecure and stuffs.
The OP reminds me of yellow journalism xD
Then you guys remind me of CCTV-10.
All is perfect. Trust in your glorious leaders. Expect Unprecedented growth and prosperity in the years coming ahead.
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Let´s get real. BW wont last 12 more years. SC2 can and even more. So stop hating SC2 and pray SC2 to be a big succes in Korea as it is US and EU already.
I strongly believe this GOMTV league is a very good start and the next few weeks we are going to see some surprises from Korea.
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On August 07 2010 04:24 Juaks wrote:
Let´s get real. BW wont last 12 more years. SC2 can.
I totally agree (not with the "and more" thing :x). I'm not "hating on Starcraft 2". I recognize, well, its the future, an imperfect one, but hey, what future is?
I'm just asking people to show the respect the predecessor for what it was. A pinnacle of competitive game design that isn't going to be achieved for some time to come. Face it, Starcraft 2, while an excellent game, hardly represents a pinnacle in that field, when compared to its predecessor. Its well designed enough to stand on its own strengths as an Esport, which is we really needed, or should have expected. But it doesn't succeed the original.
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who plz say that a bad game in asia = a bad game for us ?
sc2 is such a great game BUT its censored in korea + some other things like u can play it when u have wow (most wow gamers not want to play rts ofc ...)
i think it needs some time for bw to end and sc2 to start
now u see the gomtv league ? 500.000$ pricepool and it will grow the next years ! i am sure that time will change and guys remember Starcraft in korea 1998 wasnt same as broodwar is nowadays.
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On August 07 2010 04:28 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 04:24 Juaks wrote:
Let´s get real. BW wont last 12 more years. SC2 can. I totally agree (not with the "and more" thing :x). I'm not "hating on Starcraft 2". I recognize, well, its the future, an imperfect one, but hey, what future is? I'm just asking people to show the respect the predecessor for what it was. A pinnacle of competitive game design that isn't going to be achieved for some time to come. Face it, Starcraft 2, while an excellent game, hardly represents a pinnacle in that field, when compared to its predecessor. Its well designed enough to stand on its own strengths as an Esport, which is we really needed, or should have expected. But it doesn't succeed the original.
Don´t get me wrong. BW is the best RTS ever made, I love it, no doubt about it. But if Blizzard is giving me the sequel I´ll take it in a heartbeat. As it stands right now SC2 is a quality product with huge potential, and you are right, it haven´t achived the pinnacle in comparison to BW, but let´s wait 2 or 3 more years to evolve and we´ll see. I trust Blizzard because I consider their products instant classics.
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why isnt this thread closed yet. SC2 has the biggest esports boom in its infancy of every game ever made.
Stop arguing with these people about how it is or it isn't DOA (dead on arival)
the facts are there. and currently they say SC2 is going to kick some shit in.
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actually if u check out the blizz forum, theres already alot of flames about the game. one of the blue posters admitted thus far that the custom map system is shit and blizz is planning to amend its wrongs. custom map wasnt the only complaint ofc.
so ya, its not a dumb issue, blizz is paying attention to this.
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On August 07 2010 02:32 Cofo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 01:48 Kim_Hyun_Han wrote:On August 06 2010 23:11 LeDuck wrote:On August 06 2010 22:57 Zoltan wrote:
to the OP- Isn't a week after release a bit early to be callin the game a flop?
To be honest, I laugh everytime I read that broodwar is superior and there's no discussion to it. It's not only outdated, but a nightmare for every casual gamer and beginners. Why is the truth funny? Because you just proved his point?
what is this point all about?
that truth is funny?
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On August 07 2010 04:03 jared6464 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 03:04 Mellotron wrote:On August 07 2010 02:56 Random() wrote:
@Mellotron
"vinyl is 100 percent undeniably superior in audio quality, there is no debate"
No debate, huh? Show me just one of those wannabe-audiophiles who can tell vinyl from a properly mastered CD in at least 80% of cases in a double-blind test and I will eat my socks. There is no debate. You are completely uninformed on this subject matter and about to embarrass yourself. The proof is in the fact that you think mastering somehow increases the available 1s and 0s. Lets not take this too far off topic. You are wrong. Use the internet to your advantage my friend. Many articles have been written and audio tests have been done that prove and reprove this to be a fact. Vinyl is a physical entity. 1s and 0s have gaps in between the 1s and 0s. You arent hearing all of the audio when you listen to a digital recording. You are hearing an approximation. This is not opinion this is fact, and quite commonly known in the audio world. Until bit rates go way way way up, digital will be baby talk compared to the literary genius of a vinyl record. And even then, it will still be 1s and 0s with tiny little stair-step gaps in between them. As long as your sample rate is high enough to avoid aliasing, Fourier Transform allows you to convert analog -> digital -> analogy playback with no loss of data. Finite 0's and 1's are irrelevant as long as you are above the threshold. Digital music is often seen as inferior not because of the quality, quite the reverse. Analog technologies often introduce imperfect distortions that turn out sounding pretty nice. A feature that is hard to replicate with digital. Same reason why you see musicians playing with tube amps from teh 70's instead of modern amps. Learning is Power! http://mathworld.wolfram.com/FourierTransform.html
The problem is that the bit rate on CDs/MP3 ect is not high enough to convert digital ->analog with out loss. Yes you can encode the MP3 with a mich higher bit rate to over come this, but in most cases this is not done so it is true that Vinyl > CDs
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I think Blizz tried to milk it just a bit too much in Korea (charging pc bangs a special free, kespa etc etc) and this is the result.
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when i lived in korea one of the major reasons i went to pcbang was to lan.. and because i couldnt afford a good computer or the internet connection to play games with (this was like 11 years ago lol). For majority of kids back then decent computers and graphic cards were pretty expensive, nowadays im guessing they all have computers that can handle sc2 and with no lan, no reason to go to pcbang when you can just play with ur friends over bnet.
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I think it will pick up speed.
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just wait until the gomtv tournament kicks in, lol 
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What I don't understand is why Blizzard don't just buy the top BW players for SC2?
Seriously, if they just directly approached all of the top players in BW--Flash, JD, etc.--and offered them more money to come play SC2 than they are making in BW, it would instantly ramp up the competitive scene in SC2, while eliminating all competition from BW. Hell, why not get Boxer too? He's not the top player now, but he's still a huge name, and a lot of people would tune into watch him.
For an investment of $5-10 mil (pocket change for Blizzard), I guarantee you they could instantly lure all of the top player into switching games. It wouldn't even matter that Flash and JD don't play SC2--offer them each $500,000-$1,000,000 a year in guaranteed salary for the next couple years, and they would absolutely make the switch.
With no top players left in BW, PC Bangs would have to get with the program.
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I think that the intelligent decision is to support SC2, at least for now, regardless of whether or not it's better than Brood War (which it certainly isn't, at least currently).
Looking at the history of basically every successful competitive game ever to get a sequel made, there are essentially 2 things that happen:
1) The sequel is successful competitively. Maybe it's better than the original game, maybe it's about even, maybe it's worse but still good enough. It gets the support of enough of the previous game's community, and it gets a big enough influx of new players, and this pushes it onwards to replace the previous game. Another sequel or expansion will get made in the future, and the game's future continues.
OR
2) The game fails competitively. It's much worse than its predecessor, and it causes a big split in the community, with most of the best players staying back and many of the newer players going forwards. Another sequel or expansion is unlikely to be made, and if it is, it's not likely to be aimed at the previous competitive crowd (if they're even still around). The series decays until it is dead.
Let's look at one of the biggest series of competitive games to exist: Super Smash Brothers. Smash Brothers 64 was a great competitive game that got played again and again. It's sequel was Melee, and what happened here was undoubtedly a case of #1. Melee was actually better than 64, and did an awesome job expanding that game's playerbase and fame. Then, after Melee, came Brawl. Brawl was undoubtedly one of the second group of games. It did a poor job replacing Melee, and a lot of the best players didn't even bother going with it; It was awful and Nintendo clearly had intentions to fix it. Now, Smash Brothers is no longer anywhere near as big as it used to be, and I would bet money that there won't ever be another sequel.
Supporting SC2 will help prevent #2 from happening, and Blizzard actually does care about making it good, so if we continue to pressure them but also don't cease to support SC2, we have the best chance of SC2 continuing to become the next big eSport.
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goes to show that there are still people out there who value gameplay over 'updated' graphics
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EPT
