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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
Also the fact that if a protoss walls in, Terran can still just scan to check the tech. Fast units in the start for harrass, get in, get out. Also the sensory tower is very good but for some reason people neglegt it. Straight out I think its good that each race has its small advantages, but I feel that Terran has alot of small advantages in key areas, and I think this is one of the reasons why the other two races fall behind. | ||
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sadyque
Romania251 Posts
On September 10 2010 23:38 Amber[LighT] wrote: Actually a bunker is like a bank. Shit I need 100 minerals? Lol SALVAGE. Even with 1 HP remaining on a bunker you still get 100 minerals. Oh and well I guess if you can't disagree with the fact that Terran is perfect then there's nothing left to discuss. hahahah this is hillarious ... Like a BANK? We all have a fking bank man.. It shows your credit in the top right corner. With one hp remaining you dont have time to salvage cuz it burns down.... Im sure reading sentences out of context to prove your point is a good skill to have in your world... | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 10 2010 23:28 sadyque wrote: About medivacs...really? I mean all other units regenerate health or shields w/o any resource investment at any given time. No one has the resources to build 1 medivac/unit so you guys can whine that T units regenerate 13.5hp/s. Zerg pay 300/300 and get 10 dropships (overlords) at the price of 3 medivacs and with a lot more HP too.The protoss pays 200 Minerals (no gas!) for a dropship (warp prism) that can carry 4 zealots and any number of units ready for warp after un place it as a pylon. As a zerg player without thought I would exchange the Zerg regeneration for Zerg version of medivac or just medics. for 300/300 + 100 crystals per each overlord Zerg does not get terran medivacs. Terran gets a slow moving armored unit that when it dies leaves Zerg supply blocked. Also once it drops its units it serves no purpose. Yes it can put creep down but by time enough creep is spread in that area units are either dead or you already won. | ||
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DTown
United States428 Posts
Creep mechanic should be reworked imo to provide slight regeneration bonus to all zerg units and slightly slow all enemy units with no (or slight) movement bonus to zergs. | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On September 10 2010 22:31 DTown wrote: As has been stated many times in this thread and others (see also: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=151692), it is a cumulation of all the little things added together that make them so powerful. So that is why you see so many people suggesting changes to so many things, because there is so much that can be tweaked to tone down the race to be more on par with the other races. There is no one glaringly obvious unit or mechanic that is causing all the problems. I understand that and i think it is down to the good terran sinergy that makes zerg scared. Nerf ing whatever unit from the terran will just make it usesless (like reaper will be i asume, maybe BC also). I like balance discusions but not when they come down to: nerf that, buff that etc because you end up with what i allready mentioned (nerf everything lol) I wish there was a thread on "invite only" like qxc sugested where the top players would debate and thus giveing us, the noobs/ relative noobs, a better understanding of where a posible imba might be and where is just a strategy/tactic answer to a given problem. I know though that this is not what TL wants  | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
As for MULES, they're fine, they only allow to be on par with the zerg capacity to create multiple workers at once and the protoss capacity to chrono probes and have a quick 3 to 2 worker advantage. | ||
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Arakash
Germany124 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On September 11 2010 08:14 MrCon wrote: As a T player I agree the salvage thing is weird, I don't even know why that's in the game. As for MULES, they're fine, they only allow to be on par with the zerg capacity to create multiple workers at once and the protoss capacity to chrono probes and have a quick 3 to 2 worker advantage. Salvage is in the game as the equivalent of the Zerg ability to move their Crawlers about and put them somewhere else. If salvage has to go that Zerg ability has to go as well ... In any case it is time to let this ancient thread die, because Terran isnt OP as every stupid Zerg always whines, but rather the maps are "disfavoring" [to say it lightly] Zerg. Terran isnt OP because TvP is fine. | ||
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Bleb
Croatia278 Posts
Too many cool stuff comes for free (imagine if lifting off building would be upgrade, or reaper jumping up the cliff, or marauder's CS being ability so you'd have to CLICK, or if you had to stim marauders and marines individually, or medivac's drop ability being research... etc...It doesn't have to be expensive upgrades but something to make terran waste some time on) | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On September 11 2010 10:57 Bleb wrote: As I said in previous topic Terran has too many perks Too many cool stuff comes for free (imagine if lifting off building would be upgrade, or reaper jumping up the cliff, or marauder's CS being ability so you'd have to CLICK, or if you had to stim marauders and marines individually, or medivac's drop ability being research... etc...It doesn't have to be expensive upgrades but something to make terran waste some time on) And terran would be unplayable for anyone except the pros. Terran already has a lot more 'inbattle' micro, moreso especially than zerg(which has more battle prep, getting the flanks and picking the right spot to fight). I'm not saying terran is hard to play, but I hope atleast that blizz doesn't plan to balance the game via possible micro capabilities after dumbing down the APM requirement. Bigger maps = more macro & less early harass = scary scary scary scary tech switches and backstabs for zerg. I think it's about time blizz switches maps, i'm not sure how terran will look on bigger more open maps if they balance terran around the current maps. PS: Get 4.5more workers than terran per OC and you are ahead on avg mineral income(assuming no oversaturation). If p/z moaned about having to waste 4.5 supply to keep up with the OC, I'd be behind that arguement a lot more than the constant "whine whine whine, mule OP". Ofcourse a counter to that would be how much more versatile inject/cb are, but atleast we'd be looking at the bigger picture rather than that time the terran delayed his mineral income a lot. | ||
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chumpchous
68 Posts
There are so many things, many of which have been listed in this thread, that give Terran an advantage. However, simply changing one of those things could be enough to slide the balance back to something more reasonable. I feel like, when it comes to a clash between a 200/200 army, Terran really should come out on top. I'm fine with mech being ridiculously crazy powerful - as long as I, as a Zerg player, have an ability to put myself at a macro advantage. I am absolutely fine with the idea of needing to be on 6 bases to beat a Terran on two bases, the problem is that Zerg have no way to gain that advantage. This advantage should come from either limiting the Terrans ability to expand, or from limiting the Terrans ability to punish my own expansions. As the game is currently balanced, Terran can protect their expansions with almost no investment, and kill my expansions with a single marauder drop. This, in my mind, is the real issue. Blizzard shouldnt go hogwild nerfing everything. Even a small fix can change everything. Dont Nerf Missile Turrets/SCV Repair/Planetary fortresses' AND marauders. Then Terran wouldnt be able to turtle and also wouldnt be able to attack, putting them in zergs current position. I think, for starters, limiting reaper harassment and nerfing siege tanks a bit could change a lot. These changes will allow zerg to have a slightly stronger macro in the early game than they currently do, and even that tiny change can snowball into a big advantage throughout an entire match. I'll end by saying that ZvT is currently my favorite matchup. I get crushed, horribly, by players of equal skill, but it's challenging and exciting and my wins feel great. And my losses dont feel too bad because I can just say "TERRAN FUCKING IMBA!" and make myself feel better. Or they could just adjust the balance so zergs supply cap is at 300 instead of 200. That would rule  .Your an idiot, warp prisms, and overlords can do the exact same thing, you get the upgrade for overlords, every single overlord gets it, we have to make several dropships, so SHUT UP! I think what you're failing to grasp is that a few medivacs with some mauraders can destroy an expansion. If I want to kill a planetary fortress, I have to drop 60 supply of ultralisks into it, and it's likely that they will all die. However, you are absolutely right in that zerg DO have 20 free dropships when they reach 200 supply, so I'm not entirely sure how this should be rebalanced. Again, nerfing the power of missile turrets/PFs, making zerg drops more powerful, would be a very acceptable counter to the current power of medivac drops. | ||
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RyuChus
Canada442 Posts
IMO medivac drop ships are way too OP Just load 3 ships with marines/maraduas and you can snipe out their base in a few secs. THAT IS WAY TOO OP Your an idiot, warp prisms, and overlords can do the exact same thing, you get the upgrade for overlords, every single overlord gets it, we have to make several dropships, so SHUT UP! On September 10 2010 11:59 RyuChus wrote: NO MORE DAMN BALANCE THREADS! Geez. We get that something's imbalanced, no need to make seven thousand threads about it. Lemme guess, T player? Yes, happy? I KNOW that something is imbalanced, it's not medivacs, nor MULES, nor bunkers. Although they would make a difference, I think everyone knows that something is imbalanced, I just hate how people constantly, make crappy threads, thinking that they will make a difference. | ||
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Creation85
51 Posts
On September 11 2010 10:42 Rabiator wrote: Salvage is in the game as the equivalent of the Zerg ability to move their Crawlers about and put them somewhere else. If salvage has to go that Zerg ability has to go as well ... In any case it is time to let this ancient thread die, because Terran isnt OP as every stupid Zerg always whines, but rather the maps are "disfavoring" [to say it lightly] Zerg. Terran isnt OP because TvP is fine. Unfortunately, TvP isn't fine,, it's in a better shape than ZvT however, | ||
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chumpchous
68 Posts
On September 11 2010 12:09 RyuChus wrote: Your an idiot, warp prisms, and overlords can do the exact same thing, you get the upgrade for overlords, every single overlord gets it, we have to make several dropships, so SHUT UP! The point he is making that "your" missing entirely is that a 3 medivac drop can kill a off an expo, wheras a 3 overseer drop would fail to be anything but a huge waste of resources for the zerg. If I want to kill off a terran expo, I'm going to need to drop 70+ supply worth of ultras in there, and they're likely to die. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On September 11 2010 12:11 Creation85 wrote: Unfortunately, TvP isn't fine,, it's in a better shape than ZvT however, Yes, TvP is not fine. Its actually favoring Protoss. Unfortunately most wow pvp players who stroll the TL forums read the TvZ balance threads and assumes that terran must be op across the board. | ||
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Narek
1 Post
On September 11 2010 10:13 Arakash wrote: well either way is possible, nerf T or buff Toss/Zerg. But since nerfs are easier and safer I think we will only see buffs in HotS again. I honestly thing zerg is the only one needing a buff Protoss can do just fine against all races, Zerg is only one widely accepted as weak. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
P supposed to use tier 3 units in order to fight T tier 1 units and barely holds it. So T actually acts like swarm with lots of small units. I don't know if its balance or design problem but something went wrong. | ||
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Ascorius
Norway275 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On September 11 2010 12:22 chumpchous wrote: The point he is making that "your" missing entirely is that a 3 medivac drop can kill a off an expo, wheras a 3 overseer drop would fail to be anything but a huge waste of resources for the zerg. If I want to kill off a terran expo, I'm going to need to drop 70+ supply worth of ultras in there, and they're likely to die. The medivacs dont kill anything ... its the infantry inside which does, so complaining about the medivacs is ridiculous. Dropping 70+ supply of Ultras is HEAVY OVERKILL for just one CC ... you just need three to take down a CC really fast, so your exaggeration doesnt really work. Three Ultras is how much supply? And now compare that with the supply the Terran drops in his Medivacs. The real difference is that a. Terran units are RANGED and thus dont have to move around as much as Ultras and b. Terran units are Tier 1 compared to Tier 3 for Ultralisks, so the Terrans can do it earlier while there isnt as much defense around. Hydras at Tier 2 should be a good choice to drop as well into relatively undefended bases, since they shoot like a machinegun. | ||
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