EPTDon't be fooled by his idiotic "I'm a zerg superstar motherfucker, and I win in spite of terran being broken." Plenty of other zergs like dimaga and sen don't struggle at all vs. terran. Idra's schtick is just pathetic.
TvZ Balance Suggestions - Page 39
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HalfAmazing
Netherlands402 Posts
Don't be fooled by his idiotic "I'm a zerg superstar motherfucker, and I win in spite of terran being broken." Plenty of other zergs like dimaga and sen don't struggle at all vs. terran. Idra's schtick is just pathetic. | ||
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Macabre
United States1262 Posts
IdrA hits the nail on the head. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
On balance: While it is tempting to use top 50 ladder results to talk balance, the game is still so new a lot of tournament players are using ladder to experiment which will skew the results wildly. On Idra's balance talk: Simply put, he's way too egotistical and biased to be a perfect source of balance discussion. He's got solid macro and is admirable in the precision he executes builds. He's even got a cool head under pressure... (just not a cool head for realizing other players can play the game well even though their style and mentality may be very different than his). But I feel he has less creativity than is needed to find ways out of possible "imbalances". Personally I think it's great that vastly different styles do well in SC2. It means the life of the game has much more promise. | ||
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Kigari
Bahrain134 Posts
You can't do squat. Massing air doesn't work. Ground gets steamrolled & once he gets 6-8 ravens, he literally gets the ability to 1-shot your entire army whenever he feels like it. Was quite interesting to fall vs that strategy yesterday. I have a feeling it would work vs protoss too. I mean 8 hunter seekers people ? KA-BOOM BABY :-/ | ||
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allyourbase
United States243 Posts
On August 07 2010 00:15 Kigari wrote: You don't know what Terran hell is until you've played a ZvT and the terran goes for marines/tanks/ravens. You can't do squat. Massing air doesn't work. Ground gets steamrolled & once he gets 6-8 ravens, he literally gets the ability to 1-shot your entire army whenever he feels like it. Was quite interesting to fall vs that strategy yesterday. I have a feeling it would work vs protoss too. I mean 8 hunter seekers people ? KA-BOOM BABY :-/ Of all the things to complain about, I don't think seeker missiles are one of them. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On August 07 2010 00:13 HalfAmazing wrote: Not only is the matchup not imbalanced, once zerg reaches mass ultra stage, terran is forced to turtle. Idra's just throwing sand in your eyes, blinding you to the reality of zerg actually STILL being overpowered. The only thing that's changed is that zerg no longer has the midgame advantage with roaches. What do you see in reps where t beats z? Succesful one or two base timing push after zerg powered too hard, or turtling terran having waves and waves of zerg goo thrown at him unsuccesfully. Don't be fooled by his idiotic "I'm a zerg superstar motherfucker, and I win in spite of terran being broken." Plenty of other zergs like dimaga and sen don't struggle at all vs. terran. Idra's schtick is just pathetic. I seen VODs or livestreams of Zerg beating Terran. I only seen a handful of those where Zerg is beating Mech Terran, especially on maps like LT when you can deny natural so easily it is not even funny. That cliff needs to be much smaller so tanks cannot just be put there and have 100 safe zone from anything Zerg has there until drop/mutas. I would say for that map and that cliff Terran has to at least need to chase away overlords to safely siege tanks out of range of spines. | ||
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Kigari
Bahrain134 Posts
On August 07 2010 00:18 allyourbase wrote: Of all the things to complain about, I don't think seeker missiles are one of them. Oh I'm not complaining, just saying it's an interesting strategy but I can kind of felt -the hard way- how it can be OP if you're not paying attention (you can always separate the aimed unit but in a zerg swarm when there's 8 of them and you only see the ravens for a split sec ?). Saw lone dots on the minimap, clicked to see, heard bip bip bip and before i realized how many there were or try to separate the units away, there goes my entire army xD | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On August 07 2010 00:21 Kigari wrote: Oh I'm not complaining, just saying it's an interesting strategy but I can kind of felt -the hard way- how it can be OP if you're not paying attention (you can always separate the aimed unit but in a zerg swarm when there's 8 of them and you only see the ravens for a split sec ?). Saw lone dots on the minimap, clicked to see, heard bip bip bip and before i realized how many there were or try to separate the units away, there goes my entire army xD It is not much different then Irradiate except if you are good you can remove targeted units so only they die and others take no damage. | ||
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Kigari
Bahrain134 Posts
Try it in any game you want : Get 5 Battlecruisers (upgraded or not), take 25 scvs and go to battle. The BCs are virtually invincible. With just 15 scvs repairing it takes 8 fully charged void rays to down ONE at about 4x the speed it would normally take. Plus if you micro correctly and keep the scvs under the BCs, the enemy can't focus them or A-move because units will auto-target the bcs (well, provided they're not ground). | ||
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Opinion
United States236 Posts
1. If Terran wins against Zerg or Protoss, it is because Terran is OP. 2. If Zerg or Protoss wins against Terran, the Terran wasn't good. Terran players have 2 stances: 1. If you lose against a Terran, you aren't as good as you think you are. 2. Terran CAN lose to equal or better players, and it does happen, therefore Terran are not OP. Did i sum up the entire 40 page thread? | ||
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nihoh
Australia978 Posts
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allyourbase
United States243 Posts
On August 07 2010 00:27 nihoh wrote: Your MULE suggestion is very bad. If Mule cost was 15, I would be able to spam around 12 Mules with 200 Energy. Into a battlefield. So your basically giving Terran a Forcefield. I think that is why he also suggested lowering MULE hp | ||
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Prae
Belgium77 Posts
On August 07 2010 00:10 -Archangel- wrote: I do not a-move my units to T tank line. I try to flank and use burrow-move roaches (this only works against non-top players). I avoid fighting directly with mutalisks as long as possible and harass instead. Usually when the terran builds a couple of towers in his base and sees that if he tries to chase my mutas he will not move out of his base until I have 5+ bases he just decides to a-move to victory. I have to then return with mutas as they cannot kill his base enough for me to realistically consider base trade. I also do not clump mutas when fighting thors and manually spread them if needed (does not help at all if he has 4+ thors). Only games I ever won against decent terrans were by hiding muta tech or by getting Ultras before they decided to A-move to victory. Maybe your brother is not that good. well i don't play vs my brother only i will post replays soon i'm not home so .. even in replays where my macro fails & the Ts macro doesnt i still manage to win just cus im up their ass so hard they can't even move out, double strike attacks are so underused in sc2 & they are so effective | ||
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kar1181
United Kingdom515 Posts
APM around 40, and they do one of two things, one base MMM, or one base big tank ball. It's only recently I've learned to reliably stop this, (and I'm still unable to really counter the Ghost rush, but really, Terrans that have that build down are upper diamond now). What is amazing though, is when you stop this first push (and you only can because they are pretty rubbish players and they telegraph exactly what their intent is), is the complete mindless panic the Terran player goes into. It makes you wonder how the hell they got to this level on the ladder with such poor mechanics. Something is broke, even Browder said he found something smelly. What will be interesting is how loud the howls of pain will be when Terran (finally) get their much needed bout with the nerf stick. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On August 06 2010 23:54 Prae wrote: I coulnd agree less tbh how are these things going to help Z win versus T ? these points don't even adress the problems you guys think Z has vs T imo theirs rly nothing wrong with this matchup its just people doing their same retarded build orders then in the beta then whining it doesnt work i mean you cant just mass roaches & hydras A-move and expect to win... you will never win with an A-move as zerg if u don't like it reroll cus you obviously can't pull it off -you need to flank -burrow banelings (if he goes bio..) -muta harass -> zerglings to the front i mean come on -....... you just have to attack where they arent, when they come to defend run away and move out then go attack somewhere else is it all that hard ?? if you use zero strategy you won't win i tought this was common knowledge i play Z i have no problems vs T, my T brother doesnt even wanna play me anymore cus its allways the same he can't win 9/10 & hes same skill as me Thank god your expertise came in to shed light where Idra could not  | ||
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mathemagician1986
Germany549 Posts
On August 06 2010 22:36 mathemagician1986 wrote: I looked through the SC2 database on rts-sanctuary.com and came up with this data: Percentage of races used by the top 50 across all leagues with no filters: Zerg: 22% Terran: 44% Protoss: 20% Random: 14% only diamond league players: Zerg: 20% Terran: 40% Protoss: 34% Random: 6% only players with more than 100 games played: Zerg: 20% Terran: 42% Protoss: 32% Random: 6% Percentage of races of the top 50 players with the highest win percentage while having played more than 50 games: Zerg: 26% Terran: 32% Protoss: 38% Random: 4% Now, I can see the Terran fanboys arguing that checking only the top 50 of the world has hardly any statistical value, and I agree. However, doing it this way is even in the Terran's favour, because their easy macro mechanics play a lesser role at top level, where macro mechanics should be close to perfect. Same goes with micro. Lower players with mediocre micro skills will have a lot more difficulty facing a ridiculous ranged terran army than the pros. Therefore, these numbers will improve in the Terran's favour the more players we include. This might turn around at the bronze leagues again, where zergs just baneling bust every game, but that is not the balance issue at hand anyway. EDIT: Protoss being the race with the highest win percentage is interesting. I think we have a fairly large 4-warpgate-push community in our mids. | ||
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Quark
5 Posts
If I'm playing any race, I see how many idle gatherers are on the bottom left. I can even select them with a hotkey. If I'm playing protoss, I can see when my warpgates come off cooldown on the bottom right (and again, I can select them all with a hotkey). It seems like a similar notifier for zerg could go a long way in letting you know if you've been missing injections. Just a little counter in the bottom right that tells you how many larva you have out. You don't even need a key to select them because you can just bind all your hatcheries to a single key and select larva. Again, it's something that pros probably don't need but it would help subdiamond level ZvT substantially. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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sigma47
Germany11 Posts
Why not make Spawn Larva a spell similar to Spawn Creep Tumor? The Queen would lay a egg on the creep that creates the larvas after about 5 seconds. Idra said that it's hard (impossible) to perfectly use up the energy on queens and i think this would adress this problem. This spell could be restricted to be casted within a certain radius around the hachtery or on every single bit of creep (of course without any restrictions you might want to cut the spawned larvas to maybe 3). | ||
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