|
(4) Reverse Lost Temple
Based on the Blizzard version with some minor tweaks.
Gameplay/Topdown Views:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/9YRHp.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/TsQta.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler [img note] + 2nd image is actually a previous version, without the ridges and a mistake on the 9 expo cliff, but the layout is the same.
+ Show Spoiler [sc2 analyzer data images] +
- Inverted all non-island ground. (high ground is now low, and low is now high).
- Placed Unpathabled ridges around all mains to prevent early blink stalker. (This also prevents reaper and collosus).
- Changed middle slightly (not allowed to have manmade cliffs on top of high ground)
- Players can wall below ramp, or outside nat easily.
This will help in early game dealing with those dreaded cliff Terran drops.
Open to criticism and critique.
Download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?g2d1yjmuz4m
|
i dont see how this fixes terran cliff drops, the terran has a medivac to give sight anyway..
|
On June 27 2010 19:25 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i dont see how this fixes terran cliff drops, the terran has a medivac to give sight anyway..
Because now you don't need overlords or whatever to see UP. And YOU can kill their air unit so they can't see you.
|
I really don't like the ridges if a Protoss wants to blink in he can get observers, the ridges overall just looks ugly, I think if your going to make it reverse LT, go all the way and take the ridges away, if you are really that concerned with reaper and collosi (those two units will do the same amount of damage if it is Low - High) you can add trees and foliage to make the ridge reaper/collosi proof. Again I think you should just go all the way and remove the ridges.
EDIT: my main point is the ridges look unnatural and out of place if you want to make reverse LT make reverse LT, not reverse LT where your main is reaper collosi and nearly blink proof.
Other than the ridges its pretty sweet I had actually done the exact same thing about a week ago however my editor crashed as I was finishing it up and I decided to start on a different map other than redo it, good job.
|
Sweet, just needs more dirt and less green, in the mains.
|
On June 27 2010 19:31 Manbear wrote:
I really don't like the ridges if a Protoss wants to blink in he can get observers, the ridges overall just looks ugly, I think if your going to make it reverse LT, go all the way and take the ridges away, if you are really that concerned with reaper and collosi (those two units will do the same amount of damage if it is Low - High) you can add trees and foliage to make the ridge reaper/collosi proof. Again I think you should just go all the way and remove the ridges.
EDIT: my main point is the ridges look unnatural and out of place if you want to make reverse LT make reverse LT, not reverse LT where your main is reaper collosi and nearly blink proof.
Other than the ridges its pretty sweet I had actually done the exact same thing about a week ago however my editor crashed as I was finishing it up and I decided to start on a different map other than redo it, good job.
The purpose of the ridges is to prevent blink stalker without robo tech, and arguably even stuff like pylon above-gateway inside. The fact that it blocks reaper and collossus is unintended side effect. Plus, now that I think of it, reapers harassing down from above where you'd have to walk a mile to get around to the other side is kind of absurd.
Reapers aren't that effective vs good players anyways, and by the time someone has a collosus, they aren't going to just walk it into a main like that anyways. So all it really screws up is late game when you have a ton of cliff walkers as some kind of assault.
The ridges are kind of ugly to me as well, but it is the lesser of the two evils. I'd rather have a balanced map. Is there some other way I can achieve blink/sight blocking without having the ridges?
|
![[image loading]](http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7781/screenshot007tb.jpg)
Just a quick test, both block sight however the strategy grass only blocks it if you are not directly against the cliff, and while blocking sight the foliage also blocks the reaper and collossi movement. So at the moment it appears the only way is either your large ridge or foliage/trees, I actually hadn't thought about this until now.
The map I'm currently making is also Low Main - High map so I'm quite interested in figuring out a decent way to do this.
|
On June 27 2010 19:25 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i dont see how this fixes terran cliff drops, the terran has a medivac to give sight anyway..
It doesn't need fixing, it's a mechanic of the game. It needs countering. Or would you like the enemies ability to shoot you removed also?
|
what do you think of making the natural of the original LT your main and instead adding a new ramp (so there are now 2) to the natural (aka the old main of the original LT) with destructible rocks?
|
On June 27 2010 20:42 Tone_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 19:25 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i dont see how this fixes terran cliff drops, the terran has a medivac to give sight anyway.. It doesn't need fixing, it's a mechanic of the game. It needs countering. Or would you like the enemies ability to shoot you removed also?
THIS. I'm a Zerg player and hate Terran with a passion, and I still agree.
As for the map, other than some visual enhancements I quite like it actually.
|
On June 27 2010 20:40 Manbear wrote:Just a quick test, both block sight however the strategy grass only blocks it if you are not directly against the cliff, and while blocking sight the foliage also blocks the reaper and collossi movement. So at the moment it appears the only way is either your large ridge or foliage/trees, I actually hadn't thought about this until now. The map I'm currently making is also Low Main - High map so I'm quite interested in figuring out a decent way to do this.
Ok, well at least I can change it from just static ridges to add some trees and doodads so it doesn't look so unusual (at least on the parts around the ramps and ends).
|
On June 27 2010 19:25 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i dont see how this fixes terran cliff drops, the terran has a medivac to give sight anyway..
It stops them because now the other player has sight of the tanks.
|
so you lose to a terran strat and then go make a map that prevents it? lol
|
On June 30 2010 03:30 mass_ wrote:
so you lose to a terran strat and then go make a map that prevents it? lol
reverse temple is an old map
|
This topic shows who followed SC1 and who didn't.
Reverse Lost Temple is an old SC1 map that was used in proleagues.
|
United States47024 Posts
On June 30 2010 04:06 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
This topic shows who followed SC1 and who didn't.
Reverse Lost Temple is an old SC1 map that was used in proleagues.
This. Interesting to see what happens when CharlieMurphy doesn't explicitly say it's a remake (albeit it's as different from the old Reverse Temple as the new LT is from the old LT).
Also, this version doesn't have the 8-mineral patches that allowed wall-ins that could later be broken down that are in the original Reverse Temple. Though I'm not sure how necessary that is in SC2.
|
Changed middle slightly (not allowed to have manmade cliffs on top of high ground)
Tools -> Brush -> allow cliff merging'
I like how the middle looks like a pair of nintendo controls with hearts. thumbs up
|
Nice work!
A few comments:
The path to the natural for 7 o'clock and 8 o'clock seem a little more narrow than the paths to natural for 1 and 2, judging by the openness image. Only slightly, though.
And start location 8 (bottom left) looks like it isn't placed on the map?
|
yeah I know, I was just trying to be funny ^_^
Keep it up. thumbs up
|
Well, I think it might be difficult to defend against any rushes, because the defender cant wall in if his enemy has ranged units...
|
you completely removed reaper play?
|
I think the real reason for making a reverse LT is just for making it and there actually being a reverse LT. I cannot picture myself playing on it/wanting to play on it.
|
On June 30 2010 14:01 Antares777 wrote:
I think the real reason for making a reverse LT is just for making it and there actually being a reverse LT. I cannot picture myself playing on it/wanting to play on it.
I liked the BW version allot, that map made some fun games. I'm assuming this map would also produce some fun games although I would like to try it with and without the ridges.
|
On June 30 2010 05:14 a176 wrote:
you completely removed reaper play?
they can still harass a wall from above a ramp, or outside of it. They just don't get their jump jets.
It is a side effect of making ridges to keep blink stalkers out (without air), which was a side effect of preventing units to be dropped up there.
If you've got a better idea how to do this i'm all eyes.
|
On June 30 2010 18:09 CharlieMurphy wrote:they can still harass a wall from above a ramp, or outside of it. They just don't get their jump jets. It is a side effect of making ridges to keep blink stalkers out (without air), which was a side effect of preventing units to be dropped up there. If you've got a better idea how to do this i'm all eyes.
sorry, but why would you want to eliminate cliff play altogether?
|
What about instead of making a complete wall along the mains, put one or two gaps in it that cliff-walkers can get through? including blinking stalkers. At least if the gaps are small the defender can keep an eye on them, but its still a possible attack vector.
Besides, stalkers blinking down into the main cannot escape without vision back up, which either requires leaving a unit behind or putting down a pylon. I think it won't be so killer that every Protoss will get stalkers->blink every game on Reverse LT.
|
On June 30 2010 18:09 CharlieMurphy wrote:they can still harass a wall from above a ramp, or outside of it. They just don't get their jump jets. It is a side effect of making ridges to keep blink stalkers out (without air), which was a side effect of preventing units to be dropped up there. If you've got a better idea how to do this i'm all eyes.
I actually think the lesser of two evils would be to allow sight and movement over those cliffs. Players are going to figure out how to play on any given map over time, limiting their options without testing some strategies out beforehand seems like an act of blandness, which we all know to be one of the 8 deadly sins.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/jEp8a.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/5YK1z.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/T78ab.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/roBeY.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/5PtHr.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/aIqMX.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/C2o6q.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/65xzp.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vA7Q4.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Dy0RV.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/OqTq2.png)
